posted
Hear that everybody?! ****SPOILERS**** DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the movie yet! Keep out!
So, I thought Shelob was really well done, I'm glad they didn't go overboard making her scene bigger than it was in the book. I'm curious how exactly they filmed Frodo-in-a-cocoon: I mean, when he gets tossed about, helplessly bound in spider silk, is it Elijah actually wrapped in something that looks like spider stuff, or is it a computer image? The makeup when he's poisoned with spider venom is really well done.
I continue to be annoyed by what PJ did with Gimli's character. I admit that some comic relief was needed, but if he's such a brilliant director, surely he could have come up with something different, something that didn't reduce a proud, noble Dwarf to a mere clown just because he's short (and is the only non-beautiful member of the Fellowship). Well, at least his part is mercifully smaller in RotK.
The battle outside Minas Tirith is beautiful. I really love the part where the Men of Rohan on their steeds sweep through the ranks of the Orcish footsoldiers. I am really impressed with the Oliphaunts (I love the shape of their toes). And the flaming battering-ram is so very cool. Come to think of it, the scene with all the beacons (starting with the one that Pippin lights and ending with the one that Aragorn sees) is really beautiful too.
What exactly happens when Frodo and Sam are sneaking over to Mt Doom and the Eye is sweeping across the plains, and it seems to see Frodo? Why doesn't Sauron turn all his orcs around and have them attack Frodo, if S. sees that F. is so close to destroying the Ring?
I was surprised that the bit where Frodo and Smeagol wrestle on the edge of the precipice came off so well -- it could potentially have looked so ridiculous. And I love that PJ decided to float the ring on the lava's surface for a few moments, so we could see the writing one more time -- what a delicious image!
All the pomp and circumstance after Sauron's fall sort of wore on, but I understand that that's the way it is in the book, so I approve. Besides, there are a great many loose ends that do need to be wound up. The coronation scene, the moment when Legolas steps aside and there is Arwen, is magical (though ever-so-slightly marred by that Hollywood-style kiss). I don't know how I like Sam's wedding scene -- it felt too American-kitchy, but that's probably just me being a hobbit snob.
I don't understand why Frodo has to leave with the Elves, but maybe I ought to reread the book for the answer to that.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is it okay if I haven't seen the movie but just don't care if I'm spoiled? I'm the resident "haven't read the book" fan.
Also, haven't seen Pirates of the Carribean but I read the screenplay. I hope to have a psychiatric disorder named for me someday.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Frodo had to leave Middle Earth because he could only find the healing and peace he needed at the Gray Havens. Of anyone in the entire trilogy, Frodo definetely has the most bad stuff done to him.
It also was a good literary thing for Tolkien to do because the main reason Frodo quested to destroy the ring was to save the Shire. I think he makes some comment along the lines of "I have saved the Shire, but not for myself." Very powerfully ironic, don't you think?
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Arwen basically petitioned the Valar and got permission for Frodo to go in her place to the Undying Lands, where he could be truly healed.
Thanks for the info, martha! How is it that you got to see it? Are you in New Zealand now or something? A member of the Screen Actors' Guild?
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
In the book, of course, though the Ringwraiths reported that they were uneasy, and they felt a power from Frodo and the ring, Sauron never knew his danger until Frodo put on the ring and claimed it for his own at the cracks of doom. If the movie shows that Sauron saw Frodo and knew he had the ring before then, then it's wrong.
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Frodo carries three injuries that leave him unable to survive in Middle Earth in any comfort. 1) The wound from the Nazgul. In the book it mentions its returning pain on the anniversary of his wounding. 2) Shelob's poison, though this isn't mentioned often. 3) The Call of the Ring. Its hinted that though the ring is destroyed it still calls to him, or haunts him, killing his soul as it gives him longer life.
Or perhaps its the tragedy and evil he witnessed that drains Frodo, making him see the Shire in its petty fragile reality. They call this Delayed Stress Syndrome or some such.
Either way it hints that while the Ring is gone and Sauron is gone, evil and the influences of that evil still exist.
Eventually only the gods can cure these illnesses in Frodo, so he leaves.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
ae, since the title on the movies is "Lord of the Rings", and not "Peter Jackson's cool fun story", then I do consider the things that are not like the books, and not even in the same spirit as the books, wrong.
[ December 12, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
My dad got us onto the New Line Cinema VIP list (by having founded the Tolkein Society of America in about 1965, and by visiting JRRT twice in Oxford).
>Sauron doesn't communicate telepathically with the orcs Oh, oops, I confused him with the Hive Queen. No, really, what about the flying things? Can't they carry messages between him and the orcish commanders?
I guess it's sort of a gray area, whether or not the Eye saw Frodo. It looked to me like it did, but y'all may see it another way.
I forgot another thing I wanted to say with my spoilers: that segment between when Sam rescues Frodo from the orcs (after he's been stung by Shelob), up until they get to Mt Doom, is full of fun stuff for VSD.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sauron has direct telepathic control over the Ring Wraiths (i.e. the riders of the flying things). If Sauron saw the ring before Frodo reached Mount Doom, the history of Middle Earth would have turned out a lot differently. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dan_Raven, what about Frodo's missing finger (the one Gollum bit off)? Some people who are missing limbs experience "phantom pain," as if they can still feel the missing limb.
Then of course there's the angst at only having nine fingers, and never being able to play the piano properly again.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: Pirates of the Carribean but I read the screenplay.
Pooka! I do exactly the same thing... I read screenplays whenever I don't acyually have the money/inclination to see the movie, but want to know what everyone is going on about.
I have seen POTC though (not, however, in cinemas)
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hmmm, if the ring has such a dramatic effect on people when they put it on their finger, what effect on Gollum might the ring have had when he SWALLOWED it (along with Frodo's finger)? Could it have kept Gollum alive in the fires of Mt. Doom? You see, that would mean the ring never actually came into contact with the fires of Mt. Doom, so it was never destroyed. Since it continually kept Gollum from dying, that meant that Gollum went on living forever in eternal torment in the fires of....never mind.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pooka, VSD stands for Very Secret Diaries, a humorous and somewhat suggestive parodies located here.
You might not find them amusing, of course, but they have become part of the self-referential language of LotR fandom. If you ever notice anyone saying things like, "Still the Prettiest!" or "Sam will kill you if your try anything" or "Pervy Hobbit Fancier" that is where it comes from.
Even our own Wenches' Tavern has adopted the ubiquitous Strawberry Scented Bubble Bath.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ron, at least in the books, Gollum didn't swallow the finger with the ring, he just bit it off. He was dancing around with glee, holding the finger with the ring still on it, when he cast his eyes up to it to gloat, and missed his footing, and fell in. From the descriptions I've read from people who've seen it, the movie scene is quite similar. So the fires of Mt. Doom would have touched the ring and dissolved it. Also there's nothing that says you can't be killed when you have one of these rings, just that you don't grow older.
[ December 16, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
So shouldn't there be some folks who have finished seeing the movie (besides illuminati like Martha)? Was it released in Canada at midnight? Isn't there some timezone further east than east there?
It looks like Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Canadian Maritime Provinces are Atlantic Standard Time.
Gollum does not swallow the finger in the movie. With Peter Jackson's changes in the plotline...I completely forgive him for everything EXCEPT the Scouring of the Shire, actually...the lack there of...it really messed up the reasoning of why Frodo went to the Grey Havens, but Peter Jackson was still able to do it very very well, it was beautiful. Satyagraha
Posts: 1986 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
FYI, Gollum bites Frodo's finger off with the ring, discards the finger, dances gleefully about with said ring, then Frodo starts tussling with him for it, and in the scuffle they both tumble off the side of that bridge thingy.
posted
I don't think the missing Scouring messed up Frodo's reason for going West. He left because he bore a few wounds that would never heal while he was in Middle Earth, and because of the mark the ring left upon him. It would've been nice to see Merry and Pippin get to be their badass selves, but I was too busy trying not to cry to even notice.
Legolas on the Oliphant and the Palantir just lying in the water were the only major dislikes for me. That, and the sudden disappearance of Faramir.
posted
Wow. Return of the King was better than the first two extended editions combined. Yeah, I'll post some more stuff tomorrow when I've figured out how to describe the greatness of this movie. I think I can even forgive Peter Jackson for leaving out the Scouring. Must sleep now...
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
More important than my ramblings about Return of the King (ROTK) is the intelligence regarding when would be the best time to visit the throne. The best bathroom break occurs about half way into the movie, when you see Aragorn waking up in a Rohirrim tent and was bidden to visit Theoden. What follows is a tedious sequence where Elrond tells Aragorn that in order to save Minas Tirith, Aragorn must awaken a ghost army which centuries ago had sworn allegiance to the king of Gondor. Legolas explains the same thing later on so feel free to abandon your catheter at this time.
posted
If PJ had kept in the Houses of Healing scene, it would be the best movie ever made. I kind of needed a bit more resolution for Eowyn and Faramir's characters (on a side note, I had a girl try to convince me that Eowyn died in the books! Stupid people suck!)
As it stands, I love this movie. I don't know how soon I'll be able to see it again, because it was a very emotional experience for me. I don't normally cry at movies, but I started about 5 minutes in and it was touch-and-go for the rest of the movie up until the end of the credits. Seriously - every time Faramir came on screen, I started bawling. That's just because I love his character in the book.
Alright, here's the real question: Is it just me, or did Eomer get HOT? And Faramir, by the end, wasn't too shabby either. And Legolas, oh poor Legolas, you make a horribly ugly woman - you need to get dirty and "manly" again. He was very femmy when he cleaned up. He even made Gimli look moderately attractive... for a dwarf...
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
So was this girl trying to pull one over on you, or did she honestly think that that was the case?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I liked how Aragorn discovered the magic of showers and hair products.
Honestly, though, although I liked the ending, it was so very long that I probably upset the people behind me with all of my fidgeting. Large diet Cokes are a bad idea.
posted
IT WAS SO AWESOME!!! *does a Gollum dance* I think it was the best of the three! Three cheers for Peter Jackson for keeping Frodo's pants on!!!
The audience had some collective reactions to a few things: Shelob stinging Frodo- everyone there gasped Gimli saying "But that only counts as one!"- everyone clapped...and laughed When the hobbits were jumping on Frodo's bed and Gimli comes in- everybody laughed When Sam and Frodo were talking about the Shire, and green grass, and Frodo says something about "being naked in the dark"- everyone looked around at each other like "did he just say what I THINK he said?"
Some thing I think were done really well: The Shelob scene was awesome! You could feel the tension in the air, and it was pretty scary. Legolas and Gimli starting a new count. That was a great idea, and I really didn't see it coming. And that stunt Legolas pulled was cooler than the skateboard one! He climbs up the arrows stuck in the oliphaunt, knocks over the tower on it's back, and shoots THREE arrows at once!!! It...was...so...cool! When Frodo put on the ring and Gollum wrestled with him, it was really neat to see Gollum floating around in the air like that. I think they made the dead army really cool, too. The stunt with Eowyn using two swords and taking out a mumak. That was awesome! And then Eomer spearing the mumak rider, and taking out two mumaks! Gollum framing Sam was good. "look! crumbs on hobbitses jacket! Hee ate it! always stuffing his face when master isn't looking!"
Some things that were wrong, or just wierd: Elrond in the Rohan camp. That was so out of place. No houses of healing. I can understand leaving out the scouring of the Shire, but the houses of healing needed to be in there. He just left so much unexplained, and it was like there was a hole in the middle of the movie. And Eowyn looked like she wasn't hurt that bad. Frodo falling into Mt. Doom. That was odd, I'm glad he fixed it. No Saruman. I hope he'll at least be in the EE. I didn't like how they made Pippin look like kind of a coward. In the book he fough TROLLS for pete's sake! And "Arwen's life being bound to the ring's fate". What the heck was that one all about?! "Being naked in the dark" someone has a lot of explaing to do...
quote: I continue to be annoyed by what PJ did with Gimli's character. I admit that some comic relief was needed, but if he's such a brilliant director, surely he could have come up with something different, something that didn't reduce a proud, noble Dwarf to a mere clown just because he's short (and is the only non-beautiful member of the Fellowship). Well, at least his part is mercifully smaller in RotK.
Gimli still comes off as a proud character. The humor didn't ruin that. In fact, his pride IS the humor.
quote: Is it just me, or did Eomer get HOT?
oooh...yes he did!
I should really go get some sleep now...
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Eomer was ALREADY hot! Didn't you notice? <drooling smilie> I'm going to see it in 90 more minutes! I can't wait!!!! Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't believe that people are saying that the ending was long. If you were to ask me, I would swear that it was only about 10 minutes from where they got rid of the ring to the start of the credits.
The crowd I saw it with cheared when Eowyn killed the fell beast. They did that scene pretty well. The only thing I wish is that the Nazgul could have challenged her and Eowyn have defied him before Merry stabbed him. That would have been a lot cooler. (And closer to the book)
I wish they hadn't had Frodo go off the cliff (what is it with Peter Jackson and cliffs?) and I really wish they hadn't shown Gollum in the fire. That looked so cheesy.
Houses of Healing are definitely needed. Now it looks like they just rush from Gondor to Mordor.
Overall, I liked it, though. I thought Jackson's direction worked really well in the scenes after they get into the gate of Gondor. I even forgot that the Rohirrim were coming, and was kind of relieved when they showed up. That was my favorite scene.
Posts: 285 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the deletion of Saruman sounds similar to how Darth Vader fades off in the Return of the Jedi. Of course, I haven't actually seen the movie. Though I did see a dramatized synopsis. Oddly, neither the houses of healing nor the scouring of the Shire were mentioned in that.
Edit: Oh, yeah, I was going to add that Strider was quite well groomed in the court of Theoden in TTT.
posted
pH, you have to be joking. You tried to get through a 3½ hour movie, plus 20 minutes of previews, plus however long you had to wait from the time you took your seat--and you bought a large diet coke? You poor soul!
Yeah, OK, now that I've seen the movie, I see Gollum didn't swallow. I didn't really remember exactly how it went in the book. Not that PJ always followed exactly what happened in the book.
But I thought it was amusing that the ring had to ham up its death scene by lingering just a little. I mentioned in another thread that it reminded me of Terminator II, and someone quipped that he was expecting Gollum to do a "thumbs up."
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I'd already gone to the bathroom twice. I went with two friends, so we'd try to summarize when someone came back from a potty break.
Of course, the summaries sounded something like "The king dude is trying to burninate things because he sucks at life" or "The giant spider deal is stalking Elijah because it wants some girly Hobbit bootay."
posted
Hm. I think maybe the Two Towers EE is still my favourite, though the RotK EE could claim that title next year, especially if the houses of healing and the scouring of the Shire are in it. I'll need to see RotK again, though. Definitely.
I wanted more Eowyn... mmmmmmm. I would have liked more of a battle between her and the Witch King. Eowyn kicking ass and taking names was unbelievably hot. Rowr!
Minas Morgul was beautiful. I'm glad they finally showed us the whole thing. Shelob was well-done too. I also loved the Rohirrim and Denethor. And Gandalf riding out to meet the Nazgul pursuing Faramir's group!
Wasn't so big on the "searchlight." There were places where I thought it was overdone.
All in all, though, a fitting end to what is very much my favourite film trilogy.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I want to thank whoever it was who told me the right time for a bathroom break. I went right when they called Aragorn from his tent and didn't miss anything important at all.
Oh, it was sooooooo good! The 3:20 went by like a flash. And yes, Eomer got even hotter. I think I'm going to be unfaithful to Aragorn and fall for Eomer instead. He was great!
They do show Faramir and Eowyn standing side by side at the coronation, so I'm sure that the EE will have their romance shown.
I was very glad I was forwarned about Frodo sending Sam away. Of COURSE that would never ever have happened. I'm glad I was prepared for it, and it didn't come as a shock.
Take an extra handkerchief! I cried a LOT! Great movie!
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
I very much enjoyed it, and will see it again:)
I was pleased they didn't just end it at the celebration after Sauron's demise, but very surprised and not a little irked that they couldn't have done something at least close to the Scouring instead of roughly a half hour of semi-endings.
But I was expecting the Scouring not to be there, so I can cope:)
The battle-scenes were excellent...although now I think that PJ and Crew made the Nazgul's mounts (I disremember if they had names) too big. The Nazgul's chief weapon is supposed to be inspiring fear and flight in their enemies, and while they surely did that, their seemingly most effective weapon was simply stooping into formations of Men and dipping the proverbial ladle.
The beacon scene was excellent, and Minas Tirith (and Minas Morgul) were done better than I'd possibly hoped, even recalling Edoras and Rivendell. Smeagol's...descent into Gollum was nicely done, as well. The Paths of the Dead were nice, and in fact I was more frightened by them in the film than I ever was in the book.
The music in this one was, perhaps, the best of the three.
Now for my beefs....
They cut what is perhaps the most goose-bump-creating line in the whole book for me! When Eowyn, with Merry's help, slays the Witch-King of Angmar, and Eomer finds the King dead on the field (the battle not yet over, and in fact looking very bad for the good guys) then discovers Eowyn, apparently dead, as a total shock. I could come close to quoting the sentences verbatim, but needless to say I was disappointed that my (single, told-in-a-line-or-two) moment was lost. Particularly when it could've been included so easily and, in fact, so usefully. Since frankly the Rohirrim were outnumbered on the field of battle by roughly 15-20 to one, just by looking at the size of the formations from the bird's eye view shots.
A young king just crowned in battle, having just found his King and uncle slain, suddenly discovering his sister the same, as a total shock, is the kind of thing that can, rarely, change the odds.
I was disappointed that the only Men on Sauron's side of things were the Haradrim. It makes for a simpler and more understandable film, true (Orcs & Sauron vs. Good Guys), but I think audiences could've handled some more Men fightin' for the wrong side of things. But then, since they cut Sam's line concerning the Haradrim in the theater-release, it's not so surprising. This also deprived Theoden of a specific glorious victory, man to man.
Saruman! He just...vanished. We heard his name perhaps...three times? Then nothing. I will be very irritated if he doesn't get major treatment in the EE. (I was cringing everytime I saw something spiky, too, in Isengard )
The whole sequence where the last fight at the Morannon and the crossing of the Gorgoroth was rushed. Unavoidable, I suppose.
The Oliphaunts were stunning and impressive.
The final struggle between Gollum and Frodo, and Frodo's defiant and selfish claiming of the Ring, were handled superbly, I thought. I too thought having the Ring linger for a moment was delicious.
The kiss between Arwen and Aragorn was Hollywood-esque, but then that's to be expected. And frankly the most passionate stories of Tolkien's involved one other affair between a Man and an Elf-woman .
Frodo had to go with the Elves to Valinor (loosely home of the Gods or Angels and the Elves) because he, too, was a Ring-Bearer, for over a year. He'd contended directly with Sauron's will for over a year (and failed, but that was the only possible outcome), and he'd suffered great, supernatural harm because of his struggle. In order to be healed, and because God and the gods do take part in the happenings of Middle-Earth (or at least observe, as far as the angels are concerned), Frodo is accorded the honor and reward of travelling to where only...let me think...one other mortal being has gone. (Not counting Ar-Pharazon and his followers among the rebellious Numenorians)
Sauron does communicate telepathically with his Nazgul, but the reason he didn't send `em going after Frodo was because he didn't know he was there. He only gets the exact GPS beacon on the Ring when it's worn.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
And all you Eomer-lovers, take a look at the Unabashed Fandom thread. Who brought up Eomer/Karl Urban? Uh huh. That's what I thought.
Anyway, after reading the reviews of everyone who has read the books and been a fan for so much longer than me, I am more glad than ever that 1)I didn't read the books first and 2)didn't read spoilers anyway or let my friends tell me how the story ends. I was sucked in from the beginning (of RotK) and marvelled at everything. All of the directorial and cinematic attempts to build the intensity and heighten the suspense worked on me, and gave me the best motion picture experience of my life. I agree with the people who say to keep the Tolkein and PJ efforts separate. When I finally started reading the books, I noticed the inconsistencies, small and large. But I can appreciate both the books and the movie without begrudging either, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
That said, I am looking forward to the EE. It was helpful to know ahead of time some of the things that were missing in the theater that will be on the dvd. Even not knowing the whole story, I didn't let that ruin the movie for me.
I can't wait until I'm ready to see it again.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I saw that sequence of the searchlight and didn't think Sauron actually saw Frodo. He just was looking very hard and came close.
I thought they did a perfect job with Sauron. I really don't think I could have stood for a whole lot of personification. He was so very terrifying in the books mainly because he never was diminished to the form and shape of a man or elf. I am glad they even took his lines away in Pippin's encounter with him in the Palantir. He was a lot scarier that way, I thought.
I didn't even see that it was Merry who stabbed the Witch King before Eowyn got him. I will have to watch it again and look more closely. Did they show him well? Eowyn was absolutely awesome, I thought. She's my new favorite actress.
This was by far the best of the three movies, in my opinion. The music in the other two annoyed the heck out of me, and this music was fine. I forgot myself in the story this time, and never did before.
The saddest moment for me was when Faramir said to his father, "If I return I hope you will think better of me." And his dad answered, "That depends on the manner of your return." <cries>
I wish we had been able to see the scouring, though I can understand that there wasn't time. I really hate it that Rosie was made into a barmaid, though. That's so unrespectable! Also did you see that Sam and Rosie were NOT living in Bag End when he got back home after the havens? I wonder why not? That seemed really odd to me. What, is Bag End all locked up and empty?
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
Eruve ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Sleep]](graemlins/sleep.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
