So i went to visit one of my best friends, Jacqueline, today. She tells me that her parents don't want her to spend time with me anymore, that they don't like me for some reason. We were both quite pissed.
This is the second great friend I've lost because of this. About 6 months ago, my friend Caro was not allowed to see me anymore because her dad doesn't like me.
I just don't get it. I've always been really nice to everyone in their family, and I've always been very respectful and gotten jacqueline home on time, etc.
posted
I understand the frustration and sympathize, but I think it's important to remember that the majority of parents make choices, even choices that their children will not be happy with, out of love and concern for their child. They may be wrong, but their intentions are nothing more than looking out for their daughter.
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posted
Can you calmly and rationally ask why, discuss the issues with them, and perhaps come to some sort of compromise arrangement? Such as spending time with her and them together for awhile, until they have a chance to get to know you better and build some trust in you and her? While they need to realize that part of their daughter growing up is trusting her to make good decisions, the two of you also can make it easier for them to do that by showing you're willing to earn that trust.
My goodness, I sound like such an adult. When did that happen?
Edit - Since you posted before mine came up... See, that's the kind of thing that will just confirm for them that they made the right decision. I know that's her choice to sneak out, but they're still going to blame it on you.
posted
Did you find out why her dad didn't like you?
I'm probably one of 'those' dads; I mistrust the five year old boys that my daughter goes to school with. Little hellions.
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posted
Scott, after reading Banna's story, you probably have good reason.
CM, I'm really sorry. On the other hand, you have to admit, it's pretty cool to be the guy that all the parents hate and the girls love. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
please so her first reaction is to decide to sneak out to meet you. doesn't sound to me like it's about you at all. There are heaps of resons her parents might not want you around e.g a spending too much time with you instead of studying but my pick, from the info you've given, is that her behaviour has changed in way that is not acceptable. Perhaps after meeting you she's really grumpy or defensive (you dont know,you're not there)and you being the 'contributing factor' have to go. In fact I'll go further as her reaction is to sneak out to meet you I'd say she's been lying to them (perhaps about where you are going)and been caught.
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posted
Still, you have to give CM props for getting the girls to want to sneak out and see him. I would have totally killed for that ability when I was a teenager.
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posted
Man, that's a bad idea to keep seeing her behind her parent's back. That is, if you really care for her. If you're just out to enjoy *yourself*, then I guess it makes sense.
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posted
I always had some very weird -- and often adversarial -- relationships with the parents of my girlfriends. I absolutely REFUSED to lie to them, and did my best to make it clear to my girlfriends that I didn't tolerate it, myself, and loathed "sneaking around," so there would frequently be situations in which I'd knock on the door, calmly inform someone's father that, despite her lies to the contrary, I was in fact still dating her and intended to continue doing so, permission granted or not. It was rarely pleasant, but I often felt that it was the only honorable way to conduct myself without having to operate on the assumption that parents were always entitled to their own foolishness -- a view that, even as an incipient parent myself, I've never been able to stand.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Noah, I have to say that instead of sneaking arounf behind their back and proving you are exactly what they feared, you should ask them exactly what our beloved AK asked: "Why". Is it actually you they dissaprove of or is that their daughter is just generally out too much? And if it is you, try to defend yourself, we all know you're a great guy, so you just have to let her parents on on the loop.
posted
I was thinking about it, and I was afraid that my earlier response came across as snarky. Let me explain my position. I'll start from the assumption that you care for her and want what is best for her.
Her relationship with her parents is a permanent part of her life. In ten years, damage that was caused to her relationship to them because she went behind their back to date you will still be there. Well the damage won't be irreparable, but still. What difference will it make 10 years down the road? Will it matter that she got to spend time with you? Probably not, unless you become a permanent part of her life.
If you are considering this (marriage?), then by all means go for it. Otherwise, you are encouraging her to sacrifice something permanent for some fleeting fun.
Just some thoughts. Don't take them as commands, but as suggestions.
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posted
CM, do you have any tatoos or earrings? I know parents that make hasty decisions because of outward appearances. They just dont give people a chance.
Posts: 1604 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm totally behind Tom on this one. Sneaking around suggests a) that you're doing something dishonorable by dating each other and b) that the parents' wishes are too reasonable to be faced down honestly.
Her parents can think what they want to. It's up to you and her to do as you will -- if she lacks the spine or will to be honest about her intentions with you, or simply prefers to obey her parents over spending time with you, hell, you're probably better off without her.
Though, really, I can't imagine why the parents wouldn't want their daughter spending time around such an intelligent young man as yourself, CM.
posted
Another thought -- there may be some other factors that she is failing to tell you about. If she is so casual about lying to her parents, she may have similar attitudes about lying to you. But I don't know.
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posted
I agree with Mr. P H. Is she Jewish Orthodox, or another religion that does not allow young girls to date, or only under certain conditions? If so, that is a battle she must fight with herself. Don't get roped into that one.
If that is not the case, ask if they would allow you to date her for a while under their supervision, or with some acceptable(to them and you two) chaperone.
[ March 28, 2004, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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If so I must have given off the wrong idea to many people... I have had more then one best friend who is male and not someone I'd date (not because they weren't great guys but because we were completely wrong for each other- and both of us -knew- it. We had to "babysit" an egg for a course and almost killed each other in the process!) Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I think I'd like some basic information here, like the ages involved, and just what the nature of their relationship was before I comment.
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posted
As many people are jumping on the parents' side, I feel it's my duty to jump in on the girl's side.
We don't know the situation. We could come up with countless situations, for some of which I'd certainly side with the girl.
CM, it's up to you and her whether or not you both want to risk her parent's wrath. Parents can be wrong, monumentally wrong. What if I said that my parents refused to let me have a black friend, but my best friend was black? Would it still be right to obey my parents and stop talking to that friend? I think that's going too far. That blind obedience is stupid. She'll make her choice on how to choose her friends, as she'll have to in the future, for the rest of her life. Being forbidden to associate with certain people is being told you're not worthy of independent thought. If she thinks she's worthy, she'll make her own path.
And it's not her fault if her parents are unhappy with that.
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posted
Interesting that Orthodox Judaism is the one brought up... Orthodox Jews allow dating, just on different leves. Either way, they dont really allow dating non-jews...hmmm, that could be a problem. If that were the case i'd think Calvin woulda figured it out...
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Yes, I have a "punk" look, including tattoos, and earring, etc.
All we do is go swing dancing, to the movies, ice skating, whatever. We always let her parents know where we're going. I always was nice to everyone. I always got her home on time. We even went to prom together as friends last year.
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quote: All we do is go swing dancing, to the movies, ice skating, whatever. We always let her parents know where we're going. I always was nice to everyone. I always got her home on time. We even went to prom together as friends last year.
That sure sounds like dating to me.
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posted
I do agree that talking to the parents is the best possible course of action. Dress up like its a job interview, knock politely, and ask if you can discuss it.
If that doesn't work, screw the parents and help her sneak out if you can. A girl at 16 is nearly an ADULT. In another year she could be in college! She needs to develop independance right quick. Parental guidelines at that age should be as lax as possible. You need to help your children develop freedom.
Do NOT, I repeat, Do NOT take this lying down. Fight for her friendship, she's willing to fight for yours.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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DO NOT listen to him!! Do not sneak that girl out, you will end up never seeing her again. She is NOT almost an adult! Sixteen is soooo naive. Obey her parent's wishes and take your time. She needs to trust her parents, they will learn to trust her choice in friends. Wait until her parents are comfortable, it will be worth it.
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posted
Don't be ridiculous. She's free to do as she likes -- do what you want, so long as you can provide a reasonable argument against obeying her parents, but don't sneak around about it.
If she wants to go with you -- fine. She should do it. But if she sneaks around, she admits there something to be ashamed about. Be honest and be open, and you'll have nothing to fear.
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posted
But when they refuse him after a rational talk with them, then they are proving Noah that they aren't rational people and it really doesn't matter what they think.
Whats the alternative, waiting until she is 18?
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posted
The alternative is damning the consequences and doing whatever they want to do in full view of gods and men.
Well, not everything -- some things require locked doors and curtained windows. But they should at least be open about what they do, why they do it, and why they shouldn't stop. Sneaking around is indicative of a lack of spine and character and moral righteousness, already throwing whatever relationship the two have in a bad light.
Walk out the front door with her, don't squeeze out her bedroom window. Have pride and confidence and damn whoever tries to stop you from doing as you will without good reason, and you'll be prepared for life.
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posted
Be open, and have character? Sounds nice on paper until you're getting hit for your troubles. Or getting kicked out of the house.
She probably knows her parents pretty well. If she thinks talking will work, maybe they can try talking. But if she decides that her happiness and survival are best served by a bit of sneaking here and there, then so be it.
I think this out-the-window stuff is probably an exaggeration. She'll likely do the usual, "I'll be at Betty's house" excuse.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Noah, hon. You have to know I like ya, and all, but I can see why the parents of a 16 year old girl would get the vapors over her spending time with you. Not that I agree with their decision. I think 'forbidding' a person from doing something is one of the sure-fire ways of getting them interested in doing it. Frex, my mom never had a set age when I'd be allowed to date. Most of my friends did, and the parents were pissed at my mother because of that. I went on a double date with my 16 year old sister and her fella when I was ten or 11, I think.
I don't agree with their decision, as I have said, but I spent some time with you and you do sort of come off as a nice young man who has not had an overabundance of moral guidance.
I still think forbidding her to see you is a pretty stupid choice on their part, though.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Not that I agree with their decision. I think 'forbidding' a person from doing something is one of the sure-fire ways of getting them interested in doing it.
I disagree with this statement completely. So long as the parents say why (even if it is only a simple explanation of how the thing will be harmful spiritually or emotionally without more information), than telling them NOT to do something is a responsibility of a parent. Until the children leave the house to live on their own, they are under the control of the parents who are the gaurdians, leaders, and dictators. Any parent that does not take on that responsibility to tell their children what they can and cannot do is, in my opinion, a bad parent.
It may be the number one reason to get them to want to do something, but I will not allow the WANTS of children overtake their NEEDS in order to be better people. You hate parents? I've disliked children since I was a child. It is sad that they aren't controlled anymore, and let run free as birds. At least birds are born to fly. Children are born to fail if let alone.
quote: Walk out the front door with her, don't squeeze out her bedroom window. Have pride and confidence and damn whoever tries to stop you from doing as you will without good reason, and you'll be prepared for life.
Yeah, that might be good for *his* self-confidence and sense of honour, but that will do horrible things to her relationship to her parents. It would be a selfish thing to do.
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Noah, my best friend's parents did approve of me as a friend either. It was the cause of much tension how much she enjoyed hanging out with me. With me. ME! I was the bad influence.
posted
I feel like I should say something on this thread, but I'm not sure what.
First of all I have been in a very similar position to what Suneun describes, and agree with her analysis for the most part.
How I as a 16 year old girl ended up being friends with a bunch of 21 year old guys is really my parents fault since it has everything to do with academics. And when you are the only girl in a 4th semester college calculus class and you need study buddies what do you do? (and all of us as a group were in the same physics and chemistry classes too...)
My parents freaked out, but what was I to do. They weren't interested in me romantically. The term is "jailbait" and they had no intention of even allowing themselves to think anything given the paranoia of my parents. I keep in touch with a couple of those guy today, even got invited to their weddings. I would still consider them my friends.
That having said, because CM is 18 and the girl is 16 you do then have a problem with an "adult" hanging out with a minor even if the ages are close. If her parents really wanted to nail you, they probably could even if you are completely and totally innocent.
----
Mr_poterio_head, what you said about "dating" strikes a nerve with me. I had numerous fights with my parents over this exact topic.
Why do older people believe that no innocent friendships can exist between opposite sex persons? It really really ticks me off, because in the situation described above the friendships were completely innocent.
My parents would argue "but you don't know how guys think" and I would retort back that I had a lot better idea of how todays guys thought then they did. I was the friend, the kid sister, they didn't regard me as a "girl" I know how those guys talked about and treated their girlfriends, and while there was an occasional unsightly adjective thrown in, for the most part they were extremely respectful of every woman they dated.
How are you going to learn "how guys think" if you don't have trusted male friends? I think not having male friends puts a woman in a much more vulnerable situation when it comes to serious relationhips, because she has no one to watch her back if it ever becomes necessary or to warn about anything unhealthy that might be developing.
Also it ISN'T a date if there is no romantic intent. It is simply "hanging out" together (or whatever the latest vernacular is) and doing stuff for fun together which is *NOT DATING*.
For crying out loud, I got accused of "dating" when I went on a biking day trip with a guy and my little brothers! If you have your little brothers along it most certainly isn't a date. The guy in question liked hanging out with my brothers as much if not more than me, because they were all pretty much cut in the same mold as far as their interests went. Yeah he met them as a result of me but that was about it.
Anyway I apologize for ranting at you m_p_h but this is a very passionate subject for me.
posted
I'm not sure how much it relates to the rest of the thread but I'm going to have to back AJ up here. It's perfectly possible to have friends of the opposite gender, I mean if not I had a harem or something going during high school. Almost all my friends were girls (for whatever reason). The only problem I encountered was that of course when they had sleep overs (or whatever they called it) I wasn't exactly welcome . My parents had no problems with it, and I don't think their's did either (I tend to get along pretty well with most parents).
I didn't say that he *was* dating, I said that it *sounded* like dating to me. Which it will to her parents.
Which in a way it is. Does there have to be something romantic in the relationship for it to be a date? No. It seems to me that if a guy and a girl go off and recreate together, it could be called a date. They might not want to call it that themselves "We were just hanging out", but that doesn't matter. The patents are going to treat the two the same, and understandable so.
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