quote:*nod* But even among the really incredibly devout Catholics in this country, the number who genuinely believe (or are aware of) all Catholic dogma is vanishingly small.
Such a minority does exist. But I wouldn't even include a majority of Catholic clergy in its number.
True - but there is no requirement in the Catholic faith that all dogma be known by all believers. If you just go by what's in the catechism, the number with comprehensive knowledge is much larger (allowing for occaisional mistakes).
Dagonee Edit to add Tom's quote since the page flipped.
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Tom, I understand that there are many people who attend religious services and don't understand or care about the doctrine or minutia involved with that particular religion. What I find odd is actively disbelieving in the central theme of that religion, namely the belief in God.
If you reference the origin of this thread you will see that I acknowledge that there are people like this. If they find comfort in the ritual, tradition and trappings of said church, that's great but I would dispute that they are adherents of that religion if they don't share the central tenant (ie belief in God).
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punwit, at which point do you disagree so much with your self-professed religion that you cannot be really considered a member?
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quote: Ok Pooka, I gave my definition of faith and religion, lets hear yours.
Sorry I didn't see this before. But I doubt this is the "party line". I guess in the context you are discussing, I don't believe religion is a good thing. I believe in faith as the internal commitment to God and a church as the institution. Is there something between Love and Marriage? Surely the two are seperable, and unfortunately there are those who are married and not in Love. I've done that for periods of time as well. But because my husband loved me and asked for me to continue trying, and have found myself more in love with him than before.
There is a bias that something felt in the heart is better or more important than what goes on externally. But the feelings of the heart are inconstant. So I think institutions are established to give direction to the power of our feelings (like water contained in a riverbank or a dam has much more power than if it were allowed to do what it "felt").
One more analogy is whether I could expect good results if I exercise only when I feel like it. I'm looking at those results right now and I can't really say I'm happy with that program.
I think cultural traditions inevitably form around institutions, which is why I say religion isn't a good thing. Something like, "mormons tend to be republicans (or in the olden times, democrats)" But do you feel religion is something different from the institution of a church? I don't want to go off on that if it's just a semantic question.
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