I say nevermind the quality of the pretentious sequels--the imagination and force of the first one hasn't been surpassed yet in the science fiction world by any of it's authors...ever.
You know it's true.
*baits Card fanatics, gets can of Coke...and waits*
Edit: thanks to Katharina for pointing that I misspelled "baits"! =)
[ May 26, 2004, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: the Somalian ]
Posts: 33 | Registered: May 2004
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Wow, your reasons for your opinion have shown me the errors of my ways. Please, tell me what else to think in less than 3 sentences!
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I would say it definitely is one of the greatest of all time. Top 5 at least. I think that the later ones in the series started to drag though. I don't think the prequels are pretentious. I like them for what they are and don't try to compare them so much to the originals. I just welcome another dip back into that universe in whatever guise it comes. Nothing is ever as good as the original(in most cases) so I don't expect it to be. Definite top 5 on the list. So is Ender's Game. Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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"Wow, your reasons for your opinion have shown me the errors of my ways. Please, tell me what else to think in less than 3 sentences! "
Many err in their ways, but you are on the correct path since you have recognized your errors. With some time and effort you too can come to see the greatness of "Dune" and why it is the greatest science fiction novel of all time...why, in terms of imagination, it even surpasses Tolkien's LOTR saga in its daring fusion of politics, science and philosophy --in its compelling Machiavellian plot and memorable characters. I'm sure you'll one day see this. =)
Posts: 33 | Registered: May 2004
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Ugh... Dune the "greatest" science fiction novel of all time? It was the most-readable of the series (the sequels were far too thick, stylistically, for me to get into), and it was a decent, but IMO it falls far short of the greatest.
Maybe it's because I quickly tire of the "wheels within wheels" that Herbert seemed to love so much.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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I wouldn't argue with the earlier top 5 comment, but I could make a case for: The Mote In God's Eye, Childhoods End, Ringworld, and an obscure one that I absolutely loved when I was younger, Earth Abides. I think if I spent more time on this I could do better but this was just off the cuff.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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"Are you walking on dangerous ground by saying that Dune is the greatest SF novel ever, and posting it on an OSC site? Just food for thought.
(I'd put it in my top ten, personally, but would find it hard picking any one book as the best.) "
I probably am. I love Card's Ender quartet and place it among my favorites series of all time. I went through a Card phase back in the 8th and 9th grade--reading the quartet & Ender's Shadow and numerous short stories. Beyond that though...with the exception of the Bean series...I haven't been able to "get" into Card's other material. For instance, I couldn't even read the first book of the series that's supposedly inspired by the Book Of Mormon. The only reason I come to this site isn't out of fanaticism for Card but because of his movie reviews--I find him to be one of the few straightforward and honest film critics on the web.
Regarding Dune, I love it...perhaps I should just leave it that.
Posts: 33 | Registered: May 2004
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"wouldn't argue with the earlier top 5 comment, but I could make a case for: The Mote In God's Eye, Childhoods End, Ringworld, and an obscure one that I absolutely loved when I was younger, Earth Abides. I think if I spent more time on this I could do better but this was just off the cuff."
Okay...I'm so reading Ringworld now. You are the second person I've seen today who mentioned it in such overwhelmingly favorable terms...
I've read Childhood's End and I'd see it's good, but Clark was somewhat limited with his characters & prose...
Posts: 33 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:why, in terms of imagination, it even surpasses Tolkien's LOTR saga in its daring fusion of politics, science and philosophy --in its compelling Machiavellian plot and memorable characters
This statement is far more risky and wrongheaded than any comparisons to OSC.
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I never felt the need to read Dune until I discovered that here I felt remarkably left out. So I did. And although I don't consider it the best science fiction novel of all time, I really liked the way it was written, and the characters, and therefore, I loved it.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hrm. I'd put foundation on any list of the greatest sci fi novels of all time. And if we're gonna talk lotr, then I think you also have to put memory sorrow and thorn in the top five... ahead of lotr. Ender's game is obviously up there, and dune is as well.
Off the top of my head, my list would go MST, Dune, Ender's Game, Foundation, Pastwatch in any order.
I would probably adjust that list if I thought about it for a while.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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Dune is like many series in SF where the first book is great and the rest are not up to par. I would put Ringworld on this list, along with the second Thomas Covenant series (not as good as the first three books), and Asimov's last Foundation novel. I think publishers force authors to write sequels so much that they ruin good ideas and series with less than valiant efforts (another example of this is all of the really bad movie sequels).
Fortunately, Tolkien is not around to be forced by a publisher to write "The return of the return of the king."
Posts: 279 | Registered: May 2004
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I'd put Dune in my top ten, certainly, as a standalone novel. As a series, it's not in the running.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Stanislaw Lem -The Cyberiad Best Sci-Fi author alive. I mean...how can you compete with a book that has "A Good Shillacking" as a title of one of it's chapters? You just can't. Satyagraha
Posts: 1986 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Put me down as another reader that considere Dune one of the best SF novels of all time, but not THE best.
And for those who are mentioning Childhood's End, I just don't understand where you're coming from. I read that book several months ago because it was on somebody's list of 100 best SF books, and I thought it was quite ordinary.
Personally, I think that there should be more Philip K. Dick on everybody top ## lists -- particularly A Scanner Darkly.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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As a non SF reader, I will simply say that I have read the Ender's Quartet and 2 1/2 of the Dune books. Dune seemed pretty good while I was reading it, but I didn't feel compelled to finish the series. I think the measure of a great book is you don't have to be a genre junkie to like it. IM(ns)HO.
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"God Emperor" and "Chapterhouse" were my two favorites. God Emperor is the linchpin of the whole story.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I hope Sci-fi channel makes "God-Emperor of Dune"... that would be COOL!! *can't wait till Battlestar*
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'm just about finished reading God Emperor of Dune for the second time. About half of what Leto says (and pretty much all of his quotes from the stolen journals) make me go "Herbert, just because you are incomprehensible doesn't mean you are profound."
Did anybody else feel this way, or am I just really thick and not understanding things?
edit: Maybe it's because I haven't read Chapterhouse nor Heretics of Dune.
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Dune is definately one of my top 5, but I really can't say about best.
My top five would be: Dune, The Gods Themselves, Ender's Game, Pastwatch, The Naked Sun not especially in that order.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Are we talking about OSC's Pastwatch? Is it really that good? I've never picked it up because it looked incredibly dull.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:I wouldn't argue with the earlier top 5 comment, but I could make a case for: The Mote In God's Eye, Childhoods End, Ringworld, and an obscure one that I absolutely loved when I was younger, Earth Abides.
Earth Abides is absolutely seminal. I wasn't aware that it's obscure; sad if true.
Dune as a standalone doesn't even register on my top 20. It was a fun, easy read, but I expect a little more from my sf, and books in general. As a series? Bleargh.
Posts: 2443 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I didn't like the first Dune book as much as the sequels--up until Chapterhouse, that is. God Emperor was my all-time favorite, and probably what I would consider the best sci-fi book apart from OSC's work.
I stopped reading the prequels. I got up to the Butlerin(sp?) Jihad, but the second one in that series was too full of made-up technical terms and bad soap-opera-like characters to keep me interested.
Posts: 407 | Registered: Jul 2003
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I first read Dune in the 8th grade, after reading, for the most part, the endless Dungeons and Dragons-like novels that were abundant in the eighties.
So for me, Dune was the first novel I read that had enough substance for me to want to know more about science fiction novels. After reading all the sequels, and re-reading the sequels every few years, I love the series as a whole. Strangely, God, Emperor of Dune was my least favorite book, but was haunting enough for me to appreciate Herbert's work. But for me the real tradegy was finishing Dune: Chapterhouse Dune , seeing Herbert's vision being culminated in some sort of HUGE finale, and having his dream unfinshed. This is what makes the series so fascinating and frustrating for me.
I too was very excited about the prequels and the first two were horrible . However, the Butlerian Jihad novels have picked up considerably in pace and vision to Herbert's original works, and have given me just enough hope to keep reading.
I can only hope that if KJA and Brian finish this masterpiece that it is with more substance and material than the tripe that made up House Atreides and House Harkonnen
Is it the best sci-fi novel of all time? Geez, I dunno. I would honestly say I do not have a top novel to enshrine as number one, but if I did, it would most likely be Speaker for the Dead .
I too also vote highly for Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series, and I too enjoyed them more than LOTR!
However, in terms of movie adaptations, LOTR spanks any and all challengers. Word.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm dissapointed to read that Butlerian Jihad is better than the other two prequels. I haven't finished it, but it's pretty horrible. I can only imagine what the other two are like.
How much of the prequels are based on Frank Herber's ideas and how much was just made up for these books?
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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As mr porteiro head eluded to, they are like Diet Dune. They remind you of Dune, but leave a bitter aftertaste that leaves you longing for the real thing.
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That's OK. No matter how crappy something is, there are people that will love it. And no matter how good something is, some people won't like it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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