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No reason to make this thread about the election, even though the Democratic convention is imminent. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I think it was Suze Orman who wrote that money is more taboo than sex in the average American conversation. So it is with some trepidation that I admit that I'm a trainwreck, financially. I come from a scrimp/save/build security family, and my husband is from a "expand your income to fit your spending" family. We both think the other, in this respect, is what is wrong with America. Which of us is correct? Are miserliness and spendthrifting equivalent vices?
I think attitudes about money are not consistent across religious or other social stata. I think it is a hidden variable. And the data on money woes and divorce would seem to suggest that I am not unique in thinking that we would grow out of our differences in time.
I don't think I would get divorced over money woes, because I decided a few years ago that it is better for my kids to go to school in thrift shop clothes than to not have a father. After all, my parents did have money and security, and they apparently did this by not spending a lot of money on extras. And if I were a single mom we'd also be relatively low income.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I was thinking more along the lines of love and worth. How many people judge others and themselves based on money, and how giving money can substitute for giving love.
It's sometimes legitimate. If my house burned down, I'd frankly rather have help rebuilding and restocking it from the general masses than a chorus of sympathy. In terms of responsibility, money doesn't mean everything or most things by a long shot, but someone like that woman I know that blew her half a million dollar inheritance in nine months and is now dependent on her mother and step-father to clothe her kids did NOT show responsibility, and the way she handles money is just the clearest evidence of a general pattern.
There's even the case of, say, fathers who love their families and honestly do their best to give them all the material things they need but never really learn how to express love in other ways. That causes its own problems.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Pooka, would you elaborate on how you see money having something to do with Calvin’s doctrine of election?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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My dad tended to express his love by explaining to us how we could be better people than we were. He loved us a lot.
I know when I was a kid I wished we could eat out-- at least for special occasions. I think that is one of the things that is from my miserly upbringing that bothers me now. Also the new clothes thing. I think people are so immoral when they talk about spending money on clothes, but it's probably actually envy on my part.
Also, I fantasize about blowing up fancy houses. Not of people I know. This is what Ezra Taft Benson called "Pride from below". Dividing into classes is still pride, even if it is the lower class saying "we hate rich people."
So what do you think of prenuptial agreements? Do you think they would help partners be more responsible and avoid divorce, or do you think it would chill the love?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Didn't Calvin teach that the elect are blessed with prosperity? Now I realize this doesn't mean all prosperous people are therefore elect. It's a rather rampant heresy still alive in "Mormonism" (emphasizing that this is a cultural mormonism and not the religion).
P.S. The way I think God really works is that those who come unto him are somewhat protected from the various woes of living. Not all, but somewhat. Many of these woes have financial impact. But our exercise of free will can certainly bring financial woes into our lives. P.P.S. I don't know which is the cause of my problems. I guess I'm alwasy looking to find out.
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Okay, bad on my AP American History teacher, then. What is the doctrine of the elect? Is predestination really involved or is that also cultural?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Oh, man. We had such a box. If you have such boxes, don't have family members help you move. That is all.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Definitely predestination is involved. Double predestination, even. Although Calvin's position on predestination really wasn't that different from Luther's, he just elaborated on it a bit more.
In its most basic (and most blunt) form, it’s that God has elected certain people for salvation (and by implication, everyone else for damnation).
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