posted
Ugh, I couldn't deal with that. I am NOT a morning person. I like the night time, it affords me quiet and solitude.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I haven't been to bed before midnight in years, either, and depressingly rarely for the fun reasons.
Sigh... Oh well. At least Sara's here to give us other fun reasons to be awake. Sexual innuendo to hot chicks with easy access to nurses' uniforms! I have a new purpose in life.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
twinky, for me it's the wee hours that are most quiet and productive. I'm pretty sure it's a matter of individual temperment, though.
Lalo, I have access to scrubs, not "nurse uniforms" (whatever that may be) and -- as in all things -- the reality falls short of the fantasy. The scrubs are pee- and blood-splattered, the hair is matted, the teeth are unbrushed, and there is spit-up on the left earlobe. Eyes bloodshot. Numbers written on both arms like tattoos. Surly, hungry, and gripin' about my feet.
Sorry, dude. *grin That's the breaks. But you go and be young and pretty in your altogether, so long as you take care of yourself and be responsible. Have fun storming the castle!
[ September 07, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:King of Men -- My statement holds true. Any action taken in the throes of heated emotion that isn't preceded by forethought qualifies for the tag stupid. I'm NOT religious and I don't have anything against premarital sex. My point was that any action taken while in the grip of heated desire will not be reasonably considered. (...)
My comment on religion was intended for comrade Scott. I don't object to your definition of stupidity, though I think it's a bit all-embracing; only to your automatic characterisation of desire as 'base.' It isn't necessarily.
On the subject of heated emotion, though, consider the mother who spots her child toddling out into the road, where a ten-ton trailer is advancing at fifty kilometres an hour. I think she is not entirely cool and collected when she rushes out to pick up her child; but I would hardly call her stupid.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:I think watching soap operas is stupid, but I don't really care if you watch them or not.
I believe it says something very sad about my priorities that this is the only statement I've read tonight that spiked my blood pressure. Or perhaps it just says that I take fiction more seriously than reality.
Posts: 48 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: why should he care what two consenting adults are doing?
I care because I have personally taken care of two children whose mothers did not understand that sex before marriage is stupid.
Because I work with a number of young adults and children, I see the effects of sexual relations outside of a legal commitment just about every week.
I care, because self-control and discipline when it comes to sexual urges are ennobling arts, and they are being lost to the rising generations. So husbands who never learned to control Willie when they were horny eighteen-year-olds, suddenly find it VERY difficult to control him when they're married, and a partner is available but not always willing.
Society has to foot the bill, both the moral and the financial one, for people's stupidity.
Sex before marriage, or an equally binding social force, is stupid.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Comrade Scott, you are not arguing that sex before marriage is stupid. You are arguing that stupid people should not have sex. A point of view which opens up a whole new vista of interesting consequences.
Personally, and in somewhat the same vein, I feel that religious people should not have children. But that's just me.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: self-control and discipline when it comes to sexual urges are ennobling arts, and they are being lost to the rising generations. So husbands who never learned to control Willie when they were horny eighteen-year-olds, suddenly find it VERY difficult to control him when they're married, and a partner is available but not always willing.
ok, im confused about what the second sentence means, please help me.
As to the first, women, and espesually men (because it was more socaly acceptable) have always had pre-marital transgretions. If you were a woman and it resulted in pregencey you might, if you were rich, go to live in a nunnery, or go visit an "aunt" for a year or so. If you were poor, tough luck. In the Victorian age, brothles employed and entertained an increadably high number of people. The "moarl old days" never existed. Pre-marital daliances were just hushed up.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Well, we KNOW you have a great ... oh, wait, thats not what we're talking about huh?
Sorry. Stupid joke my brother does..." And we all know assuming makes an ass out of you..." and other person is supposed to fill in "and me" so, calling self an ass twice.
Just for those who didn't figure it out.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
So ALL sex before marrige is stupid? Every single case?
I dont think so.
Dunno about anybody else but I want the sex on my honeymoon to be GOOD.(no before anybody says so, thats is NOT the only or the most important reason for sex before marriage) lol, not like most peoples first times, not so good...... But now I know it will be awesome for me and thats not what I'm gonna be worried about my whole wedding day.lol
In some cases people get married too quickly because they can't/don't want to have sex before marriage. I think sex is an important part of the relationship. But every relationship is different..... I just think its unfair of Scott R to slap every single case of sex before marriage together and say it's stupid. I don't regret it.
oh I think that just sounded dumb.Might not have been very clear .oh well.
Edit: lol, forgot a word and it sounded funny.hehe
posted
All your mentions could as well be attributed to sex outside of emotional maturity and responsibility, Scott.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
fugu13 -- can you propose a better guidline to make sure that sex doesn't happen outside of emotional maturity and responsibility than having it only happen within marriage?
True, being married doesn't guarantee emotional maturity and responsibility, but it is sure better than nothing.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Eh, I know people are going to have extra-marital sex no matter what *I* say. I just want to do my part to make sure that people remember that sex *can* cause pregnancy in spite of efforts to avoid it. The only way to not make a baby is to not have sex. Or have your parts removed.
It is my opinion that anyone who is sexually active should be thinking about the possibility of making a baby. If you are fine with abortions of convenience, than that (unfortunately) is your legal right. As Sara pointed out, driving is dangerous. I try to do my part by driving safely and having insurance. I would greatly prefer that if people are going to be having sex they be willing to provide a good home to any resulting offspring. But there isn't much I can do about it but talk.
There are laws that protect people who are hurt in car accidents. There is no law that protects the pregnancies resulting from these unions.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Better guideline? sure. "Don't have sex unless you're ready to have kids."
Seems to encompass the issue nicely, though of course there are always problem cases. Fewer than for don't have sex before you're married, because while almost all married people are (hopefully) ready to have sex, there are a large number of unmarried people ready to have sex in the maturity and responsibility senses who the "none till married" guideline leaves off.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
That's not a bad guideline, fugu. I think if I were married and I were determined not to have kids, I would have surgery or request my husband have it. Otherwise, I would always be prepared in the back of my mind to accept a "surprise" should it happen. Or adopt out. I wouldn't even consider abortion. But that's just me.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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After giving birth repeatedly, if there were a good reason to make *sure* we never had another (like a life-threatening condition) I think you ought to be magnanimous enough to volunteer to go under the knife.
posted
Scott R, do you work in counselling or something like that? Don't you ever see a case where sex before marriage is not so stupid? where a couple have been in a relationship for some time and have decided that they are ready for sex? I'm sure there are many cases out there like that and i'm sad that you don't get to see it. What about people who don't believe in marriage but are just as commited to the relationship as a married couple is?
And I don't know if marriage is the best guideline anymore. Divorce statistics show that about 50% of all marriages end in divorce. so is it better than nothing for a few years until you divorce?
And having children out of wedlock isn't the worst thing in the world!!!! I was born out of wedlock:P and if you think I'm screwed up or something then you gotta be kidding, although Kylie may tell you otherwise but don't listen to her shes crazy. i had a great childhood... no sex before marriage = no me. lol and I can't tell my parents they were stupid can I?
Posts: 315 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
my little brother was the result of a boctched vasectomy, so don't count your chickens prematurely, bev AJ
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
AJ, a gal I know tells the story of her husband having three vasectomies and her still getting pregnant. She ended up having 7 children. Her husband who wanted no more than 2 committed suicide.
I can't vouch for the story behind the story, but at some point I began to wonder if there was another sperm-donor involved!
Edit: Though the family resemblance spoke for itself....
posted
Nobody's said this yet, so I thought I'd chime in.
I waited for sex until marriage for many of the reasons already stated here, but there was one other. I guess I may be considered old-fashioned, but I knew I wanted my husband to be my one and only for all time--I didn't want him to have to think of me being with anyone else and I didn't want to think of him as being with anyone else. And I meant the "for all time" part to include BEFORE I met him, as well. I would have considered having sex with someone else even before I met my husband as adultery against my husband. And it has made our marriage pretty wonderful. I know I made the right decision.
Oh, and perhaps the reason that there is a 50% divorce rate is BECAUSE of all the premarital sex--it is at LEAST a contributing factor.
This isn't the type of idea you can convince others of. If a person has waited for marriage, chances are they understand the value of it. If they haven't, then chances are that never experiencing the value of waiting, they can never understand it. There are exceptions, I'm sure. I suppose it could be said that since I've never experienced having sex with anyone other than my husband that I don't know what I'm missing--but that idea, to me, is stupid. I know exactly what I missed and I'm VERY happy I did.
posted
I disagree that premarital sex in and of itself causes a later divorce, except in very few cases.
Because premarital sex happens does not make it a cause. Correlation does NOT imply causation. Say this to yourself and understand it.
Factors that lead a person to choose premarital sex can also lead to a situation in which a couple divorces.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
we might be putting to much of an emphasis on sex.
As stated earlier, it can pull people closer together emotionally, but putting sex up on a pedistal and makeing it such a big deal pulls people to extreams.
People can be married and hardly ever have sex, and people can have sex with many different people before they are married. In the end, both sets may end up with a un/happy marrige.
...what really can screw with a relationship (married or other wise) is haveing children, espesually in an attempt to save it.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'd also like to put out, people make lots more life altering decisions, with lots less available data than the 99.997% non-pregnancy rate of birth control when used correctly.
Yeah, I feel safe in gambling on that. And I'm an engineer.
posted
I take that risk myself, since I do not desire to be pregnant or make a baby right now. But I am willing to accept an unexpected "accident" pregnancy also.
My concern is with those who don't even think about it as a possible consequence. Same with those who don't consider the possible consequences of driving a car--damage to people and property and even death. Both attitudes make for reckless behavior. I agree with fugu, if you are going to be sexually active, be prepared for the possible consequence of pregnancy. That doesn't mean don't have sex until you want children, just be prepared for the possible consequence. Even engineers must plan for the unexpected and unlikely.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:do you work in counselling or something like that?
No, though I used to be a tracker, and before that I worked breifly in the mental health field. The work I do now is volunteer work.
quote:Don't you ever see a case where sex before marriage is not so stupid? where a couple have been in a relationship for some time and have decided that they are ready for sex? I'm sure there are many cases out there like that and i'm sad that you don't get to see it. I'm sure there are many cases out there like that and i'm sad that you don't get to see it.
Yeah. Poor benighted me.
I'll accept fugu's reasoning that couples should not have sex before they're ready to have children. However, this is a very difficult standard to point at and quantify. Define 'ready,' in other words.
Children who are born in a state sanctioned marriage are given protections that children born outside of legal marriage do not have. For example, an immediate claim on the father for financial support.
In my opinion, conceiving children outside of marriage is also stupid.
quote:What about people who don't believe in marriage but are just as commited to the relationship as a married couple is?
Don't believe in marriage? Wait, did you think I was talking about RELIGIOUS marriage?
Let's clear this up right now-- speaking secularly, speaking scientifically, speaking logically-- sex before marriage is stupid.
quote:And I don't know if marriage is the best guideline anymore. Divorce statistics show that about 50% of all marriages end in divorce.
Can you clarify your point here? As far as I can see, this has nothing to do with the idea that widespread, social acceptance of pre-marital sex is destructive to society.
quote:And having children out of wedlock isn't the worst thing in the world!!!!
No, it's not the worst thing. It's not even the stupidest thing. But, IMO, it's right up there with getting drunk and sticking yourself behind the wheel of a car. The potential for disaster is similar.
quote:no sex before marriage = no me
Um. . . prove it.
quote:perhaps the reason that there is a 50% divorce rate is BECAUSE of all the premarital sex--it is at LEAST a contributing factor.
I doubt it. As convenient as this would be for my arguments, the data just isn't there.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Dabbler, I never said "that premarital sex in and of itself causes a later divorce." I do believe that it can be a contributing factor--if only for the reason that sex can sometimes create a false sense of intimacy and people get married when they really shouldn't. Maybe instead I should have said that "Perhaps pre-marital sex leads couples that normally wouldn't have gotten married to eventual divorce when they finally get to know each other."
Note that I still said Perhaps! I think some people missed that...
So maaaybe, your snide little comment "say this to yourself and understand it" was uncalled for and you should practice reading what people ACTUALLY say.
Enough bad things can and do happen as a result of having sex outside of marriage that it is at the very least unwise. And if I were to make a list, I do not think I would include children. I pity the poor child who is labeled a mistake. However, I would add not being able to take proper care of that child. I would include providing a family that includes a mother, father, and stability under "proper care," but even if you don't, I don't think there are many people who would argue that proper care should not include financially taking care of the child.
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