posted
It also involves more than just saying, "You can tell me anything." You have to live that thought. Listen to your kids and be available to them when they feel scared. My ten year old is hitting pre-puberty and she is having a cascade of really crazy emotions and thoughts. The thing that is remarkable is that she feels comfortable enough to write down exactly what she is thinking and address her thoughts to me. This is rather uncomfortable for me sometimes, but if it gets her through this time, I'm there.
We, as parents, are the first and last line of defense our children have. If we aren't vigilant and have firm rules about certain things, we are asking for our children to get into trouble they can't deal with. We can't protect them from everything and sometimes we will make poor judgements. Bad things will happen. By laying the rules and being careful, we can maybe keep some of the really bad things from happening.
All we can do is try and be the best parents we can.
Glenn:
The way you keep kids from disappearing from shopping area is by making the children aware of dangers and keeping them in sight and voice contact. My kids and I had this conversation (for the millionth time) today. We went to Target and one of us had to go to the bathroom. As we headed there, I went into the "since we have to be separated, if anything wrong starts happening, make lots of noise and I'll get to you."
My son said, "Mom, you've said this a million times."
I replied, "And guess what?"
"You'll say it a million more..." he and my daughter sighed.
I've taught my children to be aware and I am also aware of where they are and what they are doing.
It's not that hard to do...really.
[ September 19, 2004, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
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quote: Is there any long-term harm in very clearly implying that males are dangerous?
Ah, but we don't teach that, or try to imply it.
We teach that according to our religious and moral beliefs, unmarried males and females should not share sleeping spaces. We don't send them to a house we don't know, with unmarried males there, because it's just not proper.
Natalie goes to a Christian camp every summer. The girls wear red shirts, the boys wear blue ones. The boys and girls are in different cabins on different sides of the camp.
The camp rules state that there can be no "purple." No mixing of red and blue. You don't sit together, take walks together, and you certainly don't step foot into each other's cabins.
We tell Natalie that going to a house where there is a brother present is like sleeping in a boys cabin. You don't have to be sleeping in the same room or anything, but it's just plain against the rules to be sleeping under the same roof as an unmarried male.
By holding ourselves to this standard, we are honoring the plan that God has for men and women - to remain chaste until marriage. Yes, the standard may seem unreasonable at times, but we are establishing a boundary. We teach our children to respect those boundaries, and we explain to them why we have them. It's not "boys are dirty, boys are dangerous, boys are icky." It's "We know this may seem silly to you now, but in this household we honor God and his commandments. This is a boundary we've set as your parents, and we will expect you to abide by it. You can't spend the night with your friend - not because we don't trust you, not because your friend is not a nice person, and not because her parents aren't nice people. But, because we have set this boundary and made the decision that this is one way we will choose to walk out our Christian faith. I know you may not agree with that, but as your parents we are in authority over you and we get to set these boundaries for you."
That is almost word-for-word the discussion I had with my daughter. She was still upset, but she did say "I don't agree, Mom. But I understand, I'll tell Holly I can't sleepover."
I spoke with Holly's mom, and everything has been fine since. Natalie doesn't bring it up, except to ask me sometimes to explain the policy to a friend or friend's mother for her. Which I do, and every parent has been very understanding.
So - our policy serves two purposes. it's protective, and it's a teaching tool for our kids. It applies across the board to our girls and our son. He won't be able to spend the night with anyone who has daughters. And he will only spend teh night with people, like I described above, who share our beliefs and philosophies of child rearing.
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All your other precautions aside, I see a conspicuous absence in your post: Have you discussed the possibility of molestation with your daughter? And does she understand that you will hold her blameless so she is free to tell you if anything happens?
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posted
Actually, I remember the video of a molester in Target who attacked a girl on the store floor. They were running the video on the news...last year?
Glenn, as I have said before, nothing is perfect. You do the best you can and hope it's enough.
However, this doesn't mean you send your kids to the corner store at 3 in the morning to get a pack of smokes either.
Letting a 9 year old wander on his own is an invitation to trouble in my opinion and I wouldn't be comfortable in allowing it.
posted
I wish we had a world where we didn't have to worry about such things. I give Belle credit--at least she's trying. There are kids out there with parents that are no where near that aware and emphatic.
I think the thing that really made me decide early about how to handle my kids in open situations, such as the store,was something I saw happen at the mall where I worked once. A little kid wandered out of the store where I worked (3 year old girl). Twenty minutes after the kid wandered out, mom came to my counter asking where her kid was. The kid had walked across the hall to the Hallmark store and they found her there (thank God). Things happen so fast--it pays to be aware and like a guard dog.
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posted
Glenn, I saw no need to include that in my post but if you knew me and had read a lot of my previous posts you would know I favor completely honest and open discussions with my children.
My oldest, the 11 year old, has been taught about sex from the physical "this goes there, and then this gets fertilized and implants here" to the emotional consequences, disease potential, and yes - the fact that some adults and peers may try to do something inappropriate, and what to do if it happens.
My daughter has already exhibited a level of confidence and trust in me, when some boys said some things to her at school that disturbed her, she came home and told me. When some friends began discussing "making out" with boys she came home and asked me if we could talk about it. We did. Had a long talk, the two of us.
I don't claim to be a perfect parent, but I am trying as hard as I can. I am blessed with remarkably good kids, which makes it easier.
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posted
Thanks for the explanation, Belle. I have one more question. As your son gets older, will you allow him to sleep over at a friend's house who has a sister? My only concern (and this is probably a false one) is that boys/men are the only ones being portrayed as possible molesters, and I'd just like to be reassured that you will enforce similar rules for your son. Thanks again for sharing.
space opera
edit: I love your "open" policy. That's how we deal with our children too - especially where sexuality is concerned - and I truly think that it pays off now and will continue to pay off as they grow.
[ September 19, 2004, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
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posted
At the risk of sounding like Glenn, there are female molesters, but they are statistically fewer than their male counterparts.
Belle is doing a great job to protect her kids and certainly to the best of her ability to do so, but you can't protect them from every possible scenario.
That doesn't mean she shouldn't do her best to try and protect them.
quote: It also involves more than just saying, "You can tell me anything." You have to live that thought. Listen to your kids and be available to them when they feel scared.
Yes, especially in regard to how long it usually takes for a molester to reach a point where actual molestation takes place. Children sometimes are reluctant to come out and tell their parents what's happening, but they sometimes leave clues, such as "I don't like going to uncle Bill's house."
The point I'm making about shopping malls and other "quick as a flash" abductions is that they are difficult to anticipate. But they are also extremely rare. And they are also very scary to a child. It just doesn't make sense to me to drum into a kid's head that every bush may have a kidnapper (boogey man) behind it, when it's less likely to happen than for your children to die in a car crash.
Of course I made an effort to keep my children within sight and so on, (it's hard though, once they get a driver's license) but I didn't drum fear into their heads, especially over things that are not likely to happen.
If they had been been snatched by a stranger, I'm sure I would spend the rest of my life trying to second guess what I "could have done differently," but for everything I could anticipate and prepare for, there are ten other things I haven't thought of. So instead of preparing for things that are unlikely, I prepared for things that actually happen commonly, such as molestation.
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posted
I didn't think you were attacking Belle, Ms. Opera - I was just a little wound up over some of the posts in this thread and I felt the need to point out a detail people seem to keep overlooking. In my humble opinion.
quote:A little kid wandered out of the store where I worked (3 year old girl). Twenty minutes after the kid wandered out, mom came to my counter asking where her kid was. The kid had walked across the hall to the Hallmark store and they found her there (thank God).
Now this can be contrasted with "stay close to me or the boogey man will get you."
Kids do wander off. With my kids, the lesson didn't come in the malls, it came in the mountains. Kids sometimes leave the trail and can't find their way back. So from a very early age, my kids new to stay within eye contact, carry a whistle, not to wander, and if they find themselves lost, "stay put, hug a tree, and make yourself big." This is the same advice you would give to a child in a mall to prevent them from being abducted, but you don't have to talk about kidnappers every time, just that you don't want them to get lost. Not nearly so scary.
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posted
You make a strong point. In a way, that idea runs parallel to what I teach my kids about staying close and making noise. It isn't all about the boogie man, but I still want them to be aware that there are people that are around that will hurt them, given a chance. I also want them to be aware that I'm aware and will do everything I can to be there if I'm needed. I'm not a big girl, but I am ferocious when called to be.
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quote: True, Trevor. It was just a question because I was curious; I hope that no one takes it that I was attempting to attack Belle
Likewise, I hope no one thinks I'm attacking them either.
What's weird is that in rereading my own posts, and the responses to them, I can't figure out if I'm perceived as an alarmist, or underprotective.
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posted
Something interesting my mother taught me to do if I was lost in a mall.
If I was lost, I would stay put and hope she finds me, if she doesn't in a while go to the desk and ask them to have them find her for me.
What's interesting though is she said if someone was following me when I was lost, go to the nearest adult (even if it's a stranger) take their hand, then shout something along the lines of, "Mommy! Mommy! Theres someone following me!"
I guess often, the way to stay away from a potentially harmful stranger, is to seek shelter with a stranger.
As for molestation, I'm a male, wouldn't dream of harming another like that, I'm a teen, no children, can't really throw in my two cents there.
posted
I remember the first time I had to have the talk with my son about how some people hurt kids. He had such a hard time understanding why in the world anyone would want to hurt a child.
The directions I've always given my children if we get seperated somehow at a place like a mall is to try and find an adult who works there. If they can't, then they are to go to a mommy with little kids. I always figured that a mommy with small children would be least likely to be potentially harmful.
quote: And to me, "doing your best" includes not allowing your children free and unsupervised access to areas unknown.
But eventually you have to. At 6 I wouldn't let my kids cross the street, until they could show me that they could do it responsibly. But by 9 they had the run of the neighborhood.
Given a different neighborhood, or different kids, those ages may also have been different.
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posted
Well then I guess I'll throw in what I think...
I think it is crucial to teach your children about sex, molestation, morals, at an early age. That way it helps so that curiosity won't get the best of them. But I think it is important on how you portray it; if you make it sound as though most strangers out there are out to get the child, it can possibly harm a child's mind set. Making the child afraid of all people. But on the other hand, if you don't, they could be far too trusting and fall for anothers trap. I beleive you need to show them a middle ground.
I agree fully with trying to get your child to know that they can talk to you about anything, it helps build a trust.
I also agree with you about the sleepovers Belle, it's nothing against the other siblings of your child's friend, truly it's not. It's just for your child's safety.
posted
"Doing your best" also implies that you have the sense to know when your children are ready to have a little bit of freedom. There are too many variables to judge where one set of rule would work compared to a separate set. All things considered, I think Belle has her head on straight. Her children aren't suffering from her decisions.
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posted
Yeah... have an eight year old son, and I wouldn't let him walk the neighborhood (and I live in a nice neighborhood where most everyone is retired). Heck, I wouldn't let my ten year old girl walk the neighborhood. Now when they're teens--then there are other more pressing concerns, like what party are they at, are they really studying with their friends, etc. Once again, trust plays a role in that part of their lives. If you build trust now, they will come back to it later and be better for it.
Trevor, you'll make a good dad sooner or later. Posts: 392 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Very funny! If we all had that idea, we'd never procreate. ALL families are screwed up. Although, I'll admit, some are more screwed than others (take my ex's family--eww, no don't--I wouldn't wish them on Satan himself!).
Ok--I see your point. Maybe you're a better uncle. hehe
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posted
when I was about 8 or 9, my mother letted me start biking to the library with my neighbor, or my younger brother. It was about a mile from our house to the library. I also had pretty free reign to go about on our street, and in the woods behind our house, when I was playing. The rule was "the house has to be visible."
I was a pretty responsible little kid, though, and my neighborhood was very safe.
I also knew about staying away from strangers. I don't remember what the associated rules were. But my mother had written a book for kids called "The dangers of strangers," around the time I was born. A copy of that book was always lying around the house, and I think it helped my have safety precautions drummed into my head because of the pride of seeing my mommy's name on a book cover about how people can be dangerous.
Incidentally, the mommy with small kids rule is a pretty decent rule of thumb. Another thing to make sure kids know, though, is to stay put, or to have a target destination. Once they realize they're seperated from a parent, moving around too much is dangerous, because little kids will start wandering without really knowing where they are going, and often end up moving around in an illogical enough manner that it takes extra time for them t obe found. My parents made sure we knew how to read mall directories, and if we got lost in a mall, we should find a directory, and then make a bee-line for the nearest security post. Often, they are marked. They definetely were in the mall we went to when I was little. Meant that as soon as I realized I was lost, I would be moving TOWARDS wherever people coming to look for me would be, in a straight line from where I had been. Thus, shortening the amount of distance, and hopefully time, between me and a safe adult.
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posted
My parents gave me good rules to live by, and they told me why not following the rules could be dangerous. They did not make me afraid of strangers. I knew logically that any stranger could be dangerous, and that I should watch out just in case. I was still able to be fairly unafraid and trusting, while being safe at the same time.
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quote:The way to protect a child from this is not to make a big deal about leaving the yard, but to make sure the child knows that no matter what they may have done, they can tell you about it without fear of punishment.
In my case, the next door neighbor boy actually gave us an opportunity to tell my daughter at the age of 3 that molesters exist, and what kinds of games might turn into a situation where she should tell us what happened, even if she thought the game was fun. We made it clear that no matter what part she played in the game, that we would not be mad at her, but that she should tell us about it.
quote:The directions I've always given my children if we get seperated somehow at a place like a mall is to try and find an adult who works there. If they can't, then they are to go to a mommy with little kids. I always figured that a mommy with small children would be least likely to be potentially harmful.
Space Opera, there is good research about how to help children figure out what to do when lost, and "mommies with children" come out ahead every time.
I'm not sure about the "not sleeping over with an unmarried male" part, though. (Honestly, not sure.) You have to draw the line somewhere, but I think I'd be even more comfortable knowing that we'd clearly identified that married men can do improper things, too, even if everybody likes them. I can't get the "pillar of the community" abuse cases out of my head, although I suspect they are outweighed by the "other minors in sexual experimentation" cases.
I'm sure Belle has discussed this, too, though.
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posted
As for shopping malls, and stores we have these rules:
First try to find someone who works there. Go to a cash register and ask someone who works behind it to help you.
Secondly, if you can't find anyone, go to a mommy with small kids and ask that mommy to take you to someone who works there.
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Belle, you're a great mom. Keep it up, girl!
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He had such a hard time understanding why in the world anyone would want to hurt a child. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Very funny! If we all had that idea, we'd never procreate. ALL families are screwed up. Although, I'll admit, some are more screwed than others (take my ex's family--eww, no don't--I wouldn't wish them on Satan himself!).
