quote:The literal meaning of Islam is peace; surrender of one’s will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering one’s own pleasure for the pleasure of God. The message of Islam was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) 1, 400 years ago. It was revealed through angel Gabriel (on whom be peace) and was thus preserved in the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran carries a Divine guarantee of safeguard from interpolation and it claims that it combines the best features of the earlier scriptures.
The prime message of Islam is the Unity of God, that the Creator of the world is One and He alone is worthy of worship and that Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) is His Messenger and Servant. The follower of this belief is thus a Muslim - a Muslim’s other beliefs are: God’s angels, previously revealed Books of God, all the prophets, from Adam to Jesus (peace be on them both), the Day of Judgement and indeed the Decree of God. A Muslim has five main duties to perform, namely; bearing witness to the Unity of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) as His Messenger, observing the prescribed prayer, payment of Zakat, keeping the fasts of Ramadhan and performing the pilgrimage to Mecca.
Islam believes that each person is born pure. The Holy Quran tells us that God has given human beings a choice between good and evil and to seek God’s pleasure through faith, prayer and charity. Islam believes that God created mankind in His image and by imbuing the attributes of God on a human level mankind can attain His nearness. Islam’s main message is to worship God and to treat all God’s creation with kindness and compassion. Rights of parents in old age, orphans and the needy are clearly stated. Women’s rights were safeguarded 1,400 years ago when the rest of the world was in total darkness about emancipation. Islamic teachings encompass every imaginable situation and its rules and principles are truly universal and have stood the test of time.
In Islam virtue does not connote forsaking the bounties of nature that are lawful. On the contrary one is encouraged to lead a healthy, active life with the qualities of kindness, chastity, honesty, mercy, courage patience and politeness. In short, Islam has a perfect and complete code for the guidance of individuals and communities alike. As the entire message of Islam is derived from the Holy Quran and indeed the Sunnah and Hadith (the traditions and practices of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings on him) it is immutable in the face of change in time and place. It may appear rigid to the casual eye, in actual fact it is most certainly an adaptable way of life regardless of human changes.
Islam teaches that the path to spiritual development is open to all. Any individual who searches the One Creator can seek nearness to God through sincere and earnest worship; it is central to establishing a relationship with the Almighty. This positive message for humanity fills hearts with hope and courage.
At present there are 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide and they form the majority in more than 50 countries of the world. Today Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world - its beautiful message is reaching millions in the far corner of the earth.
And here are the attributes of Allah:
quote: Allah is the proper name of God, however, we know Him generally through His attributes. These attributes describe how Allah manifests Himself to us. God's attributes are innumerable since human intellect cannot possibly comprehend every aspect of the Supreme Being. A Hadith of the Holy Prophet (peace be on him) makes mention of Ninety Nine names of Allah commonly known as al- Asmaul Husna, the Most Names. In the Holy Quran we read: "And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His Attributes." (7:181).
"Allah - there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that will intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not;and He is the High, the Great." (2:256)
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is a lustrous niche, wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a glittering star. It is lit from blessed tree - an olive - neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would well-nigh glow forth even though fire touched it not.Light upon light! Allah guides to His light whomsoever He will. And Allah sets forth parables to men, and Allah know all things full well.This light is now lit in houses with regard to which Allah has ordained that they be exalted and that His name be remembered in them, Therein is He glorified in the mornings and the evenings (24:36-37)
"He is Allah, and there is no God beside Him, the Knower of the unseen and the seen. He is Gracious, the Merciful.He is Allah, and there is no God beside Him, the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace, the Bestower of Security, the Protector, the Mighty, the Subduer, the Exalted. Holy is Allah far above that which they associate with Him.He is Allah, the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner. His are the most Beautiful Names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Him, and He is the Mighty the Wise.(59: 23-25)
Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated: The Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Allah has ninety nine Names, one hundred less one; and who memorized them all by heart will enter Paradise." (Bukhari, The Book of Tauhid.
What I find most interesting is something we discussed in our meeting tonight, though it's only touched on here. It's the idea that Forgiver is the most important of Allah's name, and he loves forgiving us. There is a verse in the Qu'ran that says something like, 'if a nation were created that did not sin, I would destroy them and create a nation that sinned and repented.'
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posted
If God is all powerful and is the determiner of morality, then yes, we are but little dolls for him to play with, whichever God you think he is.
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Would you ever say something like that in a thread about Mormonism? Because all Christian religions have beliefs that are somewhat similar to that. Or is it ok to be disrespectful of other people's religions just because they're not here to defend themselves?
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I've said that and worse in the Christian and Mormon threads.
Granted, neither here nor there have I tried to openly antagonize anyone, nor insult them directly although my "Great Pumpkin" references did raise the ire of some readers.
If you thought that was wrong, and wanted to discuss it, that would be different. However, here you haven't bothered to actually learn anything, you've just picked up on things you thought you could mock, and did so.
Before you hear anything about headcoverings you've already decided it's mysoginistic. Here, you pick something that's a characteristic of most major religions and choose to trample on it.
I told my muslim friends to join in this discussion. I told them it wouldn't just be muslim bashing and that people would respect their religion and want to learn about it. Obviously I was wrong.
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posted
Or you're being amazingly thin-skinned and don't understand what bashing might actually entail.
I fully accept the muslims in question have reasons, both religious and cultural, for the attire.
When I noted my "gratuitous, knee-jerk Western reaction", I intended it mostly in pointed sarcasm because a lot of people do feel that way and frankly, I'm not sure I don't feel that way. I will, however, respect their right to dress and act in any manner they feel appropriate within certain constraints as noted by law.
Although I think I used the phrase "jaded Westerner's perspective."
If it's any consolation, my mocking is hardly limited to any particular religious faith as hinted at earlier - and "openly antagonistic" can be interpreted a number of ways. To what I can be, I don't think my behavior thus far has been particularly nasty.
Although instead of trampling, I could try for a nice two-step, maybe a little tap dance? I take requests, if you ask nicely.
posted
Actually, I was thinking much more of the "respect their religion and want to learn from it" in relation to you.
And I think mocking any religion is despicable, religion is the most important thing in the world to many people, and I see no reason for anyone to mock that. If you don't agree with someone's religion or disagree with its tenets than avoid it, don't make clever comments whose sole purpose is to make yourself feel superior to the people who do believe it.
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Be prepared for a little poking - if your faith isn't strong enough to handle it, you should probably re-examine your faith.
Although you are more than welcome to warn posters in advance this is a "let's hold hands and embrace our differences" thread and not a "let's treat this religion differently from the consistent and open-minded skepticism that we should subject all thoughts, philosophies and general dogma to."
I have treated Islam no differently than I have Christianity, Judaism or any other faith. In that context, I offer you treatment as an equal. With the same opportunities to defend your thoughts and point of view as anyone else.
Whatever else Beverly might think of me, I respect the fact she believes in her Faith and while I disagree, I do so with a moderation of respect.
But understand this - I don't think God exists. And for some people, that's offensive and blasphemous.
Oh, darn.
If you want to have an open and honest discussion, be prepared for opposing points of view.
posted
I know - but considering she's decided to carry the standard for all the poor, misunderstood and downtrodden Muslims, I might as well use the generic "you" and "your."
And if I can't question or comment on some particular aspect of religion or faith without being accused of bashing, oh well.
posted
Trevor- for the record, I was angry at KoM, too. And you did bear the brunt of it because you asked, I'm sorry about that. I reacted as strongly as I did subsequently because you stated that you mocked all religions equally, and I don't think any religion deserves to be mocked.
If at any point in this thread you had treated this thread with "the consistent and open-minded skepticism that we should subject all thoughts, philosophies and general dogma to." I would not be angry. You have not. You have not raised any points of discussion. You have stated once that, although you didn't know anything about a subject, you had a pretty good idea you didn't like it. And the second time you merely made a sarcastic comment. In my world that doesn't constitute an open-minded consistent discussion, although I concede it fits skeptical. However, I think the skepticism is only useful when in the context of a discussion.
I'm editing this way to much.
I really need to go to bed, and this is going to bug me all night unless I close it.
Trevor- I'm sorry, I reacted far more harshly than you deserved. The only defense I can offer is that this is an incredibly sensitive topic to me. I left my church largely because they were consistently mocking the Mormon faith. I'm sure any of my friends can verify that I jump to the rescue of any religion when it's being misrepresented. Even Christianity, even though I renounced the religion because I think many of their beliefs are immoral. I won't let someone mock them or spread false beliefs about them. I'm not sure why it's so important to me, but it's one of the issues that is sure to get me in a fury in seconds.
quote: By the way, IIRC Islam has modesty rules for men too. Men are supposed to wear clothing that is loose-fitting and does not reveal the shape of the genitals (tight-fitting jeans are out)
This is true.
I'm having some trouble getting the email posted, because apparently she is thinking about touching it up and publishing it. I can forward it to anyone who's interested, though.
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posted
According to my husband, who is Muslim, modesty rules for men also include covering at least their chests and their lower body must be covered at least past the knees.
In other words, Muslim men have to be as covered as LDS men who have been to the temple.
No exceptions for swimming or athletics. But I'm not as sure if that's personal preference on his part, cultural in terms of this part of the world, or if it's religious. Can't ask him right now - he's off praying.
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posted
Kwea, I don't think you got my point, especially if you think I was suggesting looking to Rush Limbaugh about accurate information about "liberals". Where we seemingly differ is that you see to be suggesting that Rush could be trusted when talking about his own side, which is the specific idea that I was talking about. Nor do I think that using the cultish aspects of LDS is a good argument as the answers you'd get from a respectible non-LDS member ("I don't know.") wouldn't information-wise be substantively different from a respectible LDS member ("I can't tell you.")
If you want to talk about discordant belief structures and percetual norms (I don't like using bias here because although it's technically the right word, among a naive a naive audience such as here it carries definite negative connotations), we can do that, but that's a very different issue that what I was talking about, which is simply that people who are irresponsible are at least as likely to give bad information about things they are for as things that they are against.
Would you trust Rush's word on the Bush administration or Kerry's on the democratic party? If not, what is your objection again?
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posted
blacwolve, I wasn't advocating a specific course of action for anyone. I was just pointing out that a largely intellectual understanding of religion or in fact most belief and ritual structures is a very incomplete one and talking about a way to augment this understanding.
But while we're on the topic, I have a very different view of belief that you seem to. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I don't think it has to work that way. I regard belief as a great deal more plastic than you seem to. Certainly, when I've experienced other religions, I've never had to []force[/i] myself to believe as they did.
I wnat ot focus on a little bit of what you said, that the rituals have a power of their own that can be desecrated. I'd agree with this setiment (although I think ascribing it to rituals based on how long they've been around is wrong) and I think it brings up an interesting question. To be desecrated, something first needs to be sacred. Since you've been quite clear in saying that you don't believe in the literal truth behind these rituals, where does that sacredness come from?
For me, it comes in large part from the people themselves. There's a big division in the world in how we perceive people interacting with the world. In our culture, at least, it's much more common to see people as basically reactive to an objective reality. Another possible way to see things is that people primarily construct reality through acts of creativity (which is not to say that objective reality doesn't have a strong influence, but that the reality a person experiences comes largely from their creative interpretations of their experiences with this reality).
Meaning doesn't come from stimuli, but from the shape that we make out of these stimuli. Different people take very different things out of very simular situations. If you recognize the constant act of creativity that constitutes your mental life, if you realize that things appear the way they do to you in large part because you choose to see them that way, I think you find that belief is more often written in sand than in stone. In many cases where people say that they can't do/see/believe something, what they are really saying is that they won't, because they are unwilling to.
We all live by "as if"'s. If you understand this and you are willing to put out the effort, you can experience Islam or prety much any religion as a believer (albiet probably not a stringently orthodox one). There is meaning in these religions that transcend intellectual understanding. You can take part in this meaning if you choose to.
Or at least that's the way I see it. I've always had a fondness for heretics and my views here make me a heretic not just in the eyes of the three Levantine religions, but also in those of the whole complex of Western positivistic thought.
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posted
It's all good Blacwolve - I should have approached the subject more cautiously than I did and I apologize for blundering into one of your personal sore points.
I have a couple of sore subjects myself, so the best apology I can make is I didn't intend to poke you with a stick and make you jump, even if that was the unintended result.
The history of Islam and Arab countries is one of enlightenment and tolerance - historically, Muslim countries were the most accepting of Jews and non-believers than any Christian nation of the time.
In Muslim countries, poetry and art flourished, as did sciences like medicine, astronomy, algebra and so much more.
Saladdin would weep to see the state of his people today.
At the very least, I don't think he would have destroyed two thousand year old statues of another faith in the name of his belief.
posted
I was reading Ellis and Harper's A Guide to Rational Living and I came across a statement that encapsulates a large part of what I was trying to drive at here:
quote:People often substitute their moral values and personal opinions for their descriptions and, accordingly, issue subjective judgements and appraisals when asked for a more objective account of events.
Just thought I'd share.
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