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Mish just brought her dish outside to the DHL delivery guy. I think she confused his van with that of Giovanni's Pizza. Silly dog, can't read. Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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There is no doubt that animals communicate with each other. But I do have my doubts about the complexity of the information they are able to pass to each other through sound, chemicals, and visual clues. Though I do think that they pick up on signals that we are generally unaware of.
For example, can animals smell fear? Is there an actual smell that beings give off when afraid? Can they sense by vibration the change in speed of heartrate? They very well might. These are things we generally cannot do.
We send visual signals in our posture, how tensed/relaxed we are, tone of voice, etc., that I think many animals are more sensitive to than the average person.
If you watch the ears of a cat, horse, dog, you can learn a lot about their mood. Their eyes show expression also. But in general their facial expressions do not communicate in such a detailed way as ours do. But when you are sensitive enough to pick up on someone's heartrate or amount of tension, perhaps that is not necessary.
I was taught in my language classes that language shapes our minds. By having multiple vocabulary words and syntax/grammar, we are able to *think* more abstract ideas then we ever could without them. Language is like a step ladder for our thoughts. From what we have observed, it seems that without language, a human is not able to have very specific thoughts either--thus causing their minds to work more like that of an animal.
If bonobos have a "learning window" for language as do humans, and they can take advantage of that and pass language onto their children.... The implications are fascinating. The adults that were raised with language would have been given a tool for abstract thought--perhaps the language-tool link Noemon hinted at.
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quote: Is there a way to communicate with animals using their own language?
I agree with Yozhik's response. I think that we can learn to understand animals when we spend time with them. (Jane Goodall comes to mind.) I think that some people who are particularly gifted with empathy can pick up on the subtleties of animal communication--including posture and other nonverbal cues--and immitate them, thus communicating fairly effectively with animals. I think this "talking to animals" and "empathy with animals" is a real gift that some people possess. But, since I believe that animal communication is not specific in nature, I don't think that humans can communicate specific ideas to animals.
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I believe this because I believe that animals do not possess specific language. I believe that without specific language, we cannot think specific thoughts. I don't know if this belief is considered scientific fact or not, or even if it is provable, but it is what I believe, and it seems consistent with everything I have observed in animals.
I do consider myself an animal-lover, BTW. Actually, I come from a long and proud line of animal-lovers.
Edit: I would add to the word specific the word "representative" also.
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I realize the above post doesn't really answer your question. Let me just say that I have not seen any evidence of specific communication in animals that I have observed. I don't think they have much need for specific communication, and therefore never developed it.
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I'm still not sure I understand what grounds this belief, but thanks for replying so quickly. I was just curious about the assumption.
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I guess it is like an atheist looking at the world and seeing no evidence for God. They don't think God makes sense. I see no evidence of specific communication in animals. Specific communication in animals doesn't make sense to me.
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quote:For example, can animals smell fear? Is there an actual smell that beings give off when afraid?
I have had occasion to notice, after a particularly frightening (read: downright terrifying) event, that I was sweating heavily and the sweat smelled distinctly different than the way sweat smells after exercising. Since then I’ve paid attention, and I can smell the difference between “nervous sweat” and “workout sweat,” even when it’s not so dramatic. So I’m sure that animals can. I don’t doubt that animals with a more developed sense of smell can “smell fear” even if the person isn’t sweating enough that they’d notice it themselves.
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Dogs can often smell/sense the electrochemical changes that occur in the body when one has a seizure - or even before the seizure happens. I know that some people have an "aura" before a seizure, but a lot of times they strike people unaware.
Things like that really make me wonder. Being able to smell/sense a seizure before it happens is pretty sophisticated sniffer technology.
Bev, could you continue to elaborate on animal communication not being specific? I don't think I'm still quite getting it.
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If I understand you correctly, bev, you would be more of an atheist than an agnostic (to continue the analogy). That is, you have an active belief about the non-existence of something, rather that just a skeptical stance about something for which you have not yet seen any demonstrated evidence. Yes?
[Arrgh! I'm not trying to be inflammatory. This is coming across all wrong, I'm afraid. I was just struck by your wording of the assertion, and it piqued my interest. Didn't mean to challenge you. ]
[ January 05, 2005, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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There is some evidence that elephants convey information to each other ultrasonically, and are able to do so over relatively long distances. My impression is that all three types of elephants do this. I haven't read of any attempts to decipher the communications, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised to learn that they were able to convey fairly detailed information this way. Anybody read of any work being done on this one?
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Sara, yeah, you could relate me to an atheist. But I don't necessarily think this is true of all animals. I recognize that some animals are more complex than others, and perhaps even reach sentience. Whales and elephants could be on the list too.
*remembers OSC's short story about elephants succeeding humanity as the primary sentient race on earth*
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(Thanks for being so even-keeled about the questions, bev. I've got three windows open for multi-tasking, and I find myself rather abrupt on re-read. )
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Space Opera: I don't think that a dog is capable of giving another dog specific instructions or telling them about what a bad day they had. I just don't think they do that or are capable of it. I don't think they possess a language complex enough to support those kinds of abstract thoughts.
First: I have seen no evidence of a language that complex
Second: I have never seen evidence of one dog transferring such complex information to another dog.
Edit: I love the Far Side cartoon where the translation of a dog's bark is: "Hey! Hey, hey, hey, hey! Hey! Hey!"
That is the sort of thing I am talking about.
But the possibility of some animals having complex communications that approach language or even are language is fascinating to me. Whales/dolphins/elephants--maybe. Jury is out on that one.
Apes? I don't think so. It seems that some bonobos and perhaps other apes have a "language window" similar to that of a human child where in if they are exposed to language, they can pick it up far better than if they tried when older. The fact that adult apes cannot pick up on language that these infant apes can seems to be very strong evidence for this.
Because it doesn't matter *what* language you speak, as long as you learn *a* language in that window of time, your mind develops the complexity to grasp other languages also. If you miss that window, you just can't make up for it.
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Sara, I appreciate your concern about coming across offensively. I honestly didn't even detect a hint of that in your tone. And I love answering questions, especially hard ones.
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quote:a dog is capable of giving another dog specific instructions
I guess it depends on what you mean by "specific." Our older dog is fully capable of communicating a specific meaning. We trained her to communicate her needs (go out, dinner time, water, etc.). Unfortunately for us, she is unable to distinguish a need from a want, so she communicates all her wants, too. Fortunately, her wants are not all that complex: the most common is "I want a pig ear right now," signaled by a certain type of whine and jumping around in front of the closet where we keep the treats. (If she asks for a pig ear, and we give her a rawhide chew or something, she stares at us and whimpers, as if to say, "This is SO not a pig ear." At this point, we tell her "Hush. That's all you're getting, so shut up." She does, at least for five minutes.)
The older dog also communicates at least one specific meaning to the younger one: "Come here right now." She learned to do this in a series of steps: When I feed the dogs, I feed them at the same time, to prevent whining and complaining on their part. Keep in mind that while the younger dog is usually outside, the older dog is always inside at mealtime (and has been following me around, whimpering quietly at regulat intervals, for at least a half hour before it is time to eat).
I used to call the younger dog inside, but sometimes I would shout for quite a while before she would obey. I would have to go out and get her.
Then it occurred to me that our older dog could go and get her just as easily as I could, "go get person X," having been a game we played with her as a puppy.
So I told her, "Go get your sister." At first, she would go out the dog door and find her. Then it occurred to her that she didn't have to go outside; she could just stand in front of the dog door and bark, and the other dog would come running.
I don't know why the bark gets better results than my calling her -- maybe it carries further. It certainly does convey a sense of urgency, Mishka being convinced that she has not been fed since birth and will die of starvation within the next two minutes.
Anyway, the mealtime ritual now goes something like this:
"Mish, get the dish." Clang. "Good girl. Now get the other dish." Whimper, squeal! "Well, go and LOOK for it, then. It's probably under the couch." Clang clangitty clang. "Okay. Now call your sister." Bark bark bark bark bark... and Seven comes tearing inside through the dog door. Now the second happiest thirty seconds of the day can begin.
Our younger dog, whom we adopted when she was already full grown, understands only a few words, and cannot communicate specific needs. Instead, she sits there and stares at us, occasionally thwapping us on the knee with a paw, as if to say, "I need something. Figure out what."
The exception is when she has been outside in the rain. She is not a full Lab and does not have the waterproof Labrador coat, so she comes inside looking like a drowned rat. She sits in front of the hook where we hang an old beach towel. This means, "I want to be dried." If for some reason we don't dry her, she comes up to us and starts drying herself on our clothes, or the sofa. "Oh! Do you want to be dried?" "Woof!" and she zooms over to where the towel is kept.
Are these specific enough needs?
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The older one also grasps the concept of humor. I'll post some stories, if you're not sick of them.
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I'm not sure these are any more sophisticated than a human communicating with nothing but grunts and guestures.
I am talking about language that allows the mind to ponder abstract ideas. Like pondering, "What am I?" I don't think that a human who grew up without learning language can ponder that any more than a dog can.
Edit: Basically, I believe that true sentience is impossible without sophisticated language. This is a belief I developed while in college studying language.
They seem to be using vague communication that gets the job done for routine day to day needs and wants.
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Yes, they're not pondering the meaning of life or despairing over why bad things happen to good people. They don't know that they will die one day.
(Lucky dogs. I think this is linked somehow to them not being fallen creatures.)
quote:I'm not sure these are any more sophisticated than a human communicating with nothing but grunts and gestures.
A language is a sophisticated system of grunts and/or gestures. What matters is that an abstract sound stands for a particular thing or action.
Which reminds me of another bizarre case of dog-dog communication I've observed, initiated by our younger dog this time:
The older dog likes to lick the insides of other dogs' ears. The vet said that some dogs do this to dogs with ear infections, but Mishka does it to healthy dogs. I have no clue why. Perhaps it's a maternal grooming behavior, or maybe she likes the taste of ear wax.
When we first got Seven, she did not want to have Mishka wash out her ears. Mishka did not care, and, being forty pounds heavier than the new arrival, she simply sat on Seven to hold her down during the ear grooming.
Seven decided that she enjoyed it. So now, whenever she wants Mishka to wash her ears, she goes over to her and starts gently gnawing on one of Mishka's front legs.. Mishka starts washing Seven's ears, and Seven turns her head to make sure that both ears get washed.
i have no idea how they worked out that "leg gnawing" = "clean my ears". It seems to be a completely arbitrary signal that they have worked out. It works for them. Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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quote: A language is a sophisticated system of grunts and/or gestures. What matters is that an abstract sound stands for a particular thing or action.
Aye, and it is the representation of abstract ideas that I believe is absent in animal communication.
I do think you have an interesting idea about animals--ignorance=bliss?
My husband, Porter, does an amazing job of communicating with grunts and guestures. I wish y'all could see it.
*wipes tear*
Edit: The ear-licking/leg-gnawing may be the result of trial and error communication. This is how pigins (incomplete languages but representative communications) between people get started.
Actually I can explain the ear cleaning thing. It is a subtle guesture of dominance-submissiveness and pack order you will see frequently in a multi dog household. I believe it happens in wolves too.
The ear cleaning is what a mother does to puppies. The dog licking the ears is dominant. The paw biting, is exactly a puppy-like behavior that is saying I'm the puppy, I'm submisive and I realize my place in the pack, you are the leader. The ear licking is the acknowledgement of the other dog that they are indeed the pack leader. (Because Yozik's younger dog, is willingly acknowledging this, she's no longer getting sat on. If she didn't do this periodically I'd bet the older dog would start pinning her down again...)
There are cross gender complexities in larger packs of dogs and wolves. Normally there is an Alpha Male and an Alpha female that can sort of be equal and the hierarchy of the males and females is not always one to one as you go down the pack. There may be more females dominant than males for example, but certain females will recognize other males as equals regardless.
In my own house: Jake is Alpha Dog. He cleans Ciara's and Lazarus' ears. (It's extremely funny watching a corgi clean a Doberman's ears, and the doberman putting his head down for it) Ciara is Alpha female, sort of. She's lower than Lazarus but still co-equal with Jake and is allowed to boss Jake around because she's female. She is allowed to clean Jake's ears, Laz is not. Occasionally Jake will put his foot down and get fed up with Ciara, so overall, if I had to pick the most dominant dog in the house it would be him.
Jake is also constantly testing Steve (my human) because he wishes to be The Alpha Male regardless of species. He accepts me as The Alpha overall because I'm female. But the interactions between Steve and Jake are fascinating. Jake can be utterly beligerent towards Steve. Steve of course can't let him get away with it, because the instant Jake gets away with something, Steve loses pack status and Jake won't respect him at all.
There have been extensive studies on wolf packs and they are actually viewed as having one of the more sophisticated and complex mamalian societies in existence. I believe they even know what certain howls stand for.
I don't know how abstract the concept of "we are going hunting later tonight" is but they can definitely get the point across, within a pack as well as communicating to other packs to avoid the area.
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Our older dog plays jokes on the younger one.
Mishka sometimes pretends that there's someone outside, so that Seven will go tearing out, barking wildly, to see what it is. Seven has never caught on that there's nobody there.
Mishka also lurks behind the dog door when we call Seven. Seven goes zooming up to the house, up to the dog door, then .... Mish springs out from just inside the door. Seven tries to stop or change direction, but it's too late. POW. Seven gets flattened. Fortunately, she doesn't mind, and the two of them run around the yard chasing each other. ------- Often, when I go into the bedroom to make the bed, Mishka is lying on it. Now, long ago we taught her the command, "Move," which means, "get out of our way." When we tell her to move, she usually goes across the room, or sometomes even into another room.
And she KNOWS, from years of experience, that when I start taking the pillows off the bed, she is supposed to get off it and stay off until I put them back after straightening the bed spread...
But sometimes she doesn't feel like getting off the bed, so she just looks at me. So then I tell her, "Move!"
At which point, she stands up, turns in a circle, and lies back down, obviously pleased with herself. If dogs could smirk, she would.
[ January 05, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
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quote:Yozik's younger dog, is willingly acknowledging this
Hmmm. She doesn't just tolerate it, though--she likes it. She makes little happy grunts during the washing. Maybe it makes her feel secure to have a higher-ranking dog to "take care" of her.
[ January 05, 2005, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
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To anthropomorphize, but I think accurately. If your choice (from only a physcial point of view) was asking to shake someones hand and having it shaken or getting punched and then have that person shaking your hand anyway, you'd ask for the hand shake before the punch every time.
Also, feeling secure with ones spot in the world isn't a bad thing. Getting licked becomes a positive experience because of the removal of the negative stimulus (the being sat on). If one is conditioned to a negative stimulus, the removal of it becomes a reward. For example think about an itch that you can't quite reach and just ignore but it doesn't stop itching, and then having someone else scratch it for you and it going away. Same deal.
AJ
(to me willingly acknowledge = asking for and enjoying the dominant gesture.)
quote:Getting licked becomes a positive experience because of the removal of the negative stimulus (the being sat on). If one is conditioned to a negative stimulus, the removal of it becomes a reward.
Or maybe getting licked feels good?
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It could... it is remniscent of a mother grooming puppies so theoretically there could be positive neural stimulus if one isn't wriggling and fighting it.
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I admit, and I am sorry, that i do not have the patience nor the time to read through all 3 pages, but there is something i am burning to say:
WHY DO PEOPLE THINK ANIMALS ARE SAD IN ZOOS?
May i direct you to a passage from Life of Pi by Yann Martel: (excellent book, btw)
I have heard nearly as much nonsense about zoos as i have about God and religion. Well-meaning but misinformed people think animals in the wild are "happy" because they are "free." These people usually have a large, handsome predator in mind, a lion or a cheetah (the life of a gnu or of an aardvark is rarely exalted). They imagine this wild animal roaming about the savannah on disgestive walks after eating a prey that accepted its lot piously, or going for callistenic runs to stay slim after overindulging. They imagine this animal overseeing its offspring proudly and tenderly, the whole family watching the setting of the sun from the limbs of trees with sighs of pleasure. The life of the animal is simple, noble and meaningful, they imagine. Then it is captured by wicked men and thrown into tiny jails. Its "happiness" is dashed. It yearns mightily for "freedom" and does all it can to escape. Being denied its freedom for too long, the animal becomes a shadow of itself, its spirit broken. So some people imagine. That is not the way it is. Animals in the wild lead lives of compulsion and necessity within an unforgiving social hierarchy in an enviroment where the supply of fear is high and the supply of food low and where territory must constantly be defended and parasites forever endured. What is the meaning of freedom in such a context? Animals in the wild are, in practice, free neither in space nor in time, nor in their personal relations. In theory-- that is, as a simple physical possibility-- an animal could pick up and go, flaunting all the social conventions and boundaries proper to its species. But such an event is less likely to happen than for a member of our own species, say a shopkeeper with all the usual ties-- to friends, to family, to society-- to drop everything and walk away from his life with only the spare change in his pockets and the clothes on his frame. If a man, boldest and most intelligent of creatures, won't wander from place to place, a stranger to all, beholden to none, why would an animal, which is by temperament far more conservative? [................] Don't we say, "There's no place like home"? That's certainly what animals feel. Animals are territorial. That is the key to their minds. Only a familiar territory will allow them to fulfill the two relentless imperatives of the wild: the advoidance of enemies and the getting of food and water. A biologically sound zoo enclosure--[....]--is just another territory, peculiar only in its size and in its proximity to human territory. [.....] In a zoo, we do for animals what we have done for ourselves with houses: we bring together in a small space what in the wild is spread out. Whereas before us the cave was here, the river was over there, the hunting grounds were a mile away, the lookout next to it, the berries somewhere else--all of them infested with lions, snakes, ants, leeches, and poison ivy...[....] A house is a compressed territory where our basic needs can be fulfilled close by and safely. A sound zoo enclousure is the equivilant for an animal. [.......]and finding that there is no need to go hunting, food appearing six days a week, an animal will take posession of its zoo space [......] ...it will not feel like a nervous tennet, and even less like a prisoner, but rather like a landholder...[.............] Think about it yourself. Would you rather be put up at the Ritz with free room service and unlimited access to a doctor, or be homeless without a soul to care for you?Posts: 464 | Registered: Jul 2004
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While I see where you are coming from, I imagine they do feel some negative effects of their limited space. I imagine animals held in captivity get bored. But I appeal to my own feelings in those circumstances--I don't really know how animals feel.
Your description of a hotel where it's really posh and you have everything you need reminds me of "the Hotel California". "You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave." No thanks.
Is the desire to roam free a uniquely human characteristic? I am thinking no.
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See, I knew this thread would go multiple pages!
As an insect advocate, I am utterly fascinated by the subtle world of chemical and electrical signals. Most humans are completely unaware of how much communication occurs between animals, and even plants! I've begun trying to speak to insects, albeit rather clumsily, through the deliberate use of chemicals. Since I know that ants communicate through chemicals, I interrupt their scent trails with vinegar and then I lay down essential oils I know they dislike. In this way, I am saying "You are not welcome here". In mosquito season, I change my blood chemistry by eating garlic. Mostly, I just know how to say "Go away". However, my family is going to a beekeeping "school" soon, and I hope to learn more about communicating with insects.
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Cool, Jen. This is making me think of OSC's novelization of The Abyss. A sentient race that lived deep in the high pressure waters of the ocean, trying to communicate with humans through their native language--chemicals.
I was young when I read it, but the idea stuck with me. I didn't even know it was an OSC book at the time!
Come to think of it, it might have been my first OSC book without realizing it. I don't remember.
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Well, I have plenty of "puppy buds" aka friends that are of the doggie kind. Rob has his Penney...and I think she pretty much has him and me..and his parents wrapped around her tail. (not to mention the neighbors). I know that my puppy ( who is 14 years old and still going..without expensive vets and meds.) Dominique, has always known when something is wrong. She stayed by my father's side when he was sick and wouldn't leave him ...turned out he'd had a minor heart attack. She curled up next to me whenever I had a migraine, and she barked at my sister to let her know that her youngest child had something wrong with her the week before Christmas... she had a fever of 103.4. Since no one else in my family had any idea about these problems I 'd say she was pretty in tune with what was going on. She also knew that just being there helped to calm my father. I don't know how, but she did. She gets to do pretty much whatever she wants within reason. So does Penney....she eats her dinner, then goes outside (where she has plenty of room to roam) and over to the neighbor's house because his daughters give her "cookies" (dog biscuits), and she is well aware that she will get them whenever she visits them.
Kwea should put up the pic of miss Penney... if you see it you would know that there is no way she could ever survive in the wild...she is too used to her humans... and she keeps her humans just the way she wants to! When Dominique was acting funny last year and my dad called me (she stays with him all the time now so he's not alone) I was devastated and could barely function when I took her to the vet. Luckily it was nothing serious... I had imagined everything from a stroke to a brain tumor. It turned out to be something she had eaten that apparently didn't like her and made her dizzy (and she's blonde enough!). I have felt the same way when one of my friends was seriously ill...it was scary and sad to think that they might not be there to spend time with, play with, share my candy corn with. (Dominique loves to have a piece every once in a while) So, while I would not go to extreme lengths to prolong my animals lives....they will go to extreme lengths to prolong their humans..... I think they enjoy being with us...I know I enjoy being with them. Dogs rule Cats drool! Posts: 325 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I've never been able to figure out why one is supposed to like either cats or dogs, but not both. They both rule. We almost adopted one from a shelter once, but our landlord found out and squelched that. (We hadn't even thought to ask--we figured that if we were allowed to have an 85-lb. dog, a cat would be no problem--but the humane society called the landlord.)
Mishka has a love-hate relationship with cats: she loves them, they hate her. It's her approach; she runs up to them, wagging happily, and they're terrified, so they hiss at her and scratch her.
Seven approaches them more hesitantly, and so she gets better results, although she's still wary. She doesn't understand cat body language, so she jumps back when the cat tries to rub its face up against her: "Ohmigawd! It's attacking!"
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Yozhik, your dogs sound like an absolute blast. You've got me thinking, and I think our 8 month-old lab mix Max knows a little over 10 words so far. We do talk to him quite a bit, so hopefully he will continue to pick up more as he grows.
On zoos - I love some elements of zoos. I adore sea lions. They are beautiful and graceful, and I'd never get to see them naturally.
Tigers and lions make me want to cry, though. The Indianapolis Zoo in particular has their lion and lioness in a very small enclosure. It's not large enough for them to run very far at all. This is why my husband will no longer visit zoos. It's actually heartbreaking - you watch them pace and if you catch a glimpse in their eyes, they just look...defeated.
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Because left to their own devices it's something that they engage in, and because exercise in general is as important for them as it is for us?
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Animals having no language is another of the tenets of the Secret Order of Linguists. So let it be written. So let it be done.
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And why assume that any given human would mind being confined with all their physical needs being met? Because they can tell you so? But why is that? Would it bother you, and why?
Why assume that an animal wouldn't feel that way too? We may be more complex in our mental workings and therefore have different motives, but our needs are still very congruous.
That is like assuming that animals don't feel elation or pain. We can't *prove* that they do or don't because they can't tell us so. But I choose to believe they do feel these things. I also choose to feel that they would prefer being free to being confined.
I am a pet owner of creatures that are confined. (My precious guinea pigs.) I freely acknowledge that they would be happier unconfined. But being unconfined would result in their death, because mankind has domesticated them beyond all hope of survival in the wild. So to make up for that, I have provided them as large a habitat as I feel I reasonably can.
But when an animal *is* capable of caring for themselves in the wild, I say leave them there. Our cat years back was so unhappy being confined in our house. If I had my way, he would have been an outdoor-cat. But my Mom had him declawed and felt it was just too dangerous for him to be outside. There was truth to that--but if only you could have seen how miserable it made him! When we moved, we gave him to the care of a family that lived on several acres. He disappeared shortly afterwards. I don't know how he fared, but I believe he was so much happier.
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I think animals are capable of communication, some of it vocal. We have a cat that often greets people vocally. He has a specific sound he makes just for this purpose. He has another sound he makes when he thinks he is alone in the house and wants someone to play with/reassure him. One of our other cats, when I tell her "No!" (tone of voice doesn't make a difference, it's the word itself she's reacting to) cries at me. She is rather well behaved, so it doesn't happen often, but I always have to stifle a laugh when it happens (I must admit I think of a kid who's just been scolded whining "But mom!"). I often wonder what she is trying to communicate to me when this happens. Our youngest kitten, who is new to our household, hasn't learned any English yet, nor have we learned her specific sounds yet, which makes things a little challenging sometimes. When I was a child, we had a cat that actually would say "No" and he meant it.
Our oldest cat lived as an outdoor cat before I got him when he was 7 months old (at which point I moved him to another state to be an indoor cat). He seems to me to prefer being indoors. He only once has gone outside when he had the opportunity. It wasn't long before he was crying at the door howling loudly to come back in. He enjoys sitting near open doors and windows (I think he likes the smells), but doesn't seem to actually want to be out there.
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Just so everyone is clear, communication != language and of course sometimes language != communication.
I remember our cat being very vocally expressive also. Guinea pigs are also very vocal, and I joked all growing up that one of my fluent languages was guinea pig. I am pretty good at deciphering every squeak and purr.
Trisha: It does seem that way. I am willing to keep an open mind about it. It is my belief that no known animal species possesses anything that would qualify as "true language" and that "true sentience" cannot exist in the absence of "true language". (Though some very complex creatures may possess a sort of "quasi-language" and therefore "quasi-sentience"?) But I find it a fascinating idea that some apes might have a "language learning window" similar to that of humans, if to a lesser extent. We won't know unless we continue observing. I, for one, am very interested in what we might find there.
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Of course, the presence of a language learning window in humans is still debated in academic circles, or was still being debated in the late 90s.
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