posted
When in the course of human events, a pattern of abuses establishes itself, and those liable for these injustices prove unwilling to relent and continue to restrict the abilities of the encumbered to ease the pain of this burden, it is not only acceptable, but necessary for the oppressed to rise up by force, not of arm but of mind and of heart, to throw off the bonds that have held them asunder. In this manner, clearly stated and widely supported by those men that began the great experiment that we are now participants of, those that suffer under the heel of the current establishment cry out for assistance. The downtrodden implore the established, the endowed, the gilded to lift their hand. These weary, beaten people hear the words of a prophet spoken long ago in a far off land ringing in their ears: “They are ever hearing, but never understanding; ever seeing but, never perceiving.”
The poor is the true international community. The disenfranchised and the dispossessed are not restricted by race, gender or religion. Yet some would have you believe otherwise, these pushers of the worn-out rhetoric of a bygone era will soon have there lies exposed. These very lies have fractured the body of the abject and the abused and have rendered all efforts towards improvement ineffectual. The mighty men sent to represent the weak have proven themselves to be self serving autocrats who care nothing for the will and wishes of the people. Neither shall aid be found in force of arm, this fact clearly illustrated by the utter and complete failure of all of the worker revolutions. The dictatorship of the proletariat has proven a poorer choice than the current system. Such a regency only makes hungry bellies empty, heatless houses colder, shallow coffers hollow. Even if such a future was ignored, and a regime change was desirable, a revolution by force of arms is destined to failure. The alliance between the ruling class and the military-industrial complex has proven too strong.
Since the rich and the wealthy have proven either unable or unwilling to succor those in need of rescue, the weak must bind together for strength. Only when the masses of the subjugated speak with one voice, walk with one step, lift their hands, and bend their backs towards a common goal can their states truly change. Let there be no more talk of black and white, of Gentile and Jew, of believer and nonbeliever. Together the sticks and twigs rejected for building shall become a mighty hall. “The stone the builders rejected shall become the capstone.” - Cassius Locke
posted
When in the course of human events you come to the end of a thought, a paragraph break is nice.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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In what way do the bonds hold the oppressed "asunder?" Everywhere I see oppressed people, they're always together.
Or are you talking about divisive issues perpetuated by the media, designed to split the working masses...abortion for instance?
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:The poor is the true international community
So when a disaster occurs, like in the Bay of Bengal, it is the sense of international community that rallies the poor to the aid of their stricken brethren?
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Okay, I've read your piece. I think it's very idealistic, but not necessarily bad. But then, I'm notoriously hard up for cash.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Welcome to Hatrack, and thanks for the paragraph breaks.
Interesting idea, uniting the poor of all nations. The problem is that race and religion in most countries probably still matter far more than economic class. You won't get the poor Catholics and the poor Protestants in Northern Ireland, nor the poor whites and the poor blacks in South Africa all working together anytime soon. Hatred is in many ways far more powerful than a desire to improve one's situation. Many people will sacrifice their own well-being to harm their enemy.
I should add, though, that your ideas might be far more viable in less than world-wide situations, for example, the poor in America. Good thoughts, at any rate, and something to think about.
posted
Within the past hundred years, race has been the tool of distraction utilized by the aristocrats to mystify the working body into becoming lackeys. This diversionary tactic has been supremely successful due to partial truth of the issue, the black man was oppressed. The concept of race bound the white worker to his white master, while at the same time severing him from his black brothers. The black man did not look beyond the agent to see the perpetrators. In fact how could they? A lynching is a fit distraction. The smoldering embers of this issue now poison the mind of the lower class. If the black man believes he is poor because of the white man, he is mistaken. It is the rich who oppress and enslave.
The black man must look beyond appearances and see the white man is not his oppressor. The true oppressors are the callous wealthy, of any race, that seek to line their own pockets through the exploitation of the workers. Some say, that the white are the wealthy. Why should we embrace in brotherhood any who so recently joined with our oppressors? Realize this, if the poor wish to raise their status they must forgive past transgressions and unite. Let the dream of the Atlanta pastor be accomplished. Let no man judge another by the color of their skin, but by the merit of their actions. Let poor white boys and poor white girls join with poor black boys and poor black girls and sing the words of that great Negro spiritual, “Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty I am free at last.”
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:necessary for the oppressed to rise up by force of arm to throw off the bonds that have held them asunder... Neither shall aid be found in force of arm
So unitedly take up arms, but don't accept aid from outsiders? How the heck do we figure out who the outsiders are? What about our fellow poor folk from the international community; are we supposed to reject their aid as well?
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:a revolution by force of arms is destined to failure
So we're goin' to war, but we're sure to fail. Bad attitude!
How about this: poor people do their best to get rich (don't spend money on bling bling and pimping your ride until you've put a roof over your kid's heads); rich people do their best to make poor people rich. Then we'll all be rich. How about that?
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Since the rich and the wealthy have proven either unable or unwilling to succor those in need of rescue
We're talking about Sam Walton's clan oppressing all those poor store workers.
How about if WalMart paid everybody executive salaries? Woo hoo, spinner rims for everybody! Where we gonna find that much chrome?
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Who else is going to help poor people? You think poor people banding together is somehow going to make them rich. (Getting rich is what we're talking about here, isn't it? We're not talking about some higher goal like sipping suds with your feet up?)
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I think you two are talking past each other. Ryan, skillery isn't saying that rich people currently do all they can to help poor people, he's saying that's the only way poor people are going to get ahead, if rich people work to help them, I believe.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Rich people and poor people working together is what it's all about. There will always be rich people, and there will always be poor people. Might as well work together. Poor people squandering their money makes me crazy though.
-White, middle-class me
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Reads like a manifesto...is there an uprising coming? I'd say welcome to the board, but I don't think I've been here long enough myself to be worthy of welcoming other newcomers.
quote: Okay, I've read your piece. I think it's very idealistic, but not necessarily bad.
Ouch. Since when do we link idealism with badness? We shouldn't have to say "it's idealistic, but, well, I guess it's still okay." Idealism should be championed, not excused.
I think the poor are products of a lack of education. The very poor go to bad schools, and can't leave ghettos and inner cities. When we imrpove the education system, and everyone is put on the same playing field as everyone else, we'll be closer to that goal. Until then, the rich can throw as much money at the poor as they want, it won't do any good. Also, the poor have been poor for so long they don't really think being rich is a reality that can be created from their dreams, so they won't band together as a political power to FORCE politicians to enact change. Until they do that, they won't get any help.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
<insert supremely stupid comment here - thanks for alerting me, Dag.>
It is idealistic, and idealism has fallen into disuse, perhaps because cynicism/realism (depending on who you are talking to) is more accepted. However, it is refreshing to see a bit of ideology now and then.
quote: There are all kinds of handicaps that increase a person's chances of being poor. Rich people should pick up the tab.
I don't agree with that. It's not the responsibility of the rich to pick up for the irresponsibility of the poor. Yes it's not fair to the mom who gets abandoned (though it usually IS the fault these days of the teenage mom who gets pregnant), but how would you feel if you had to pay an Irresponsibility Tax and it's not even your irresponsibility.
On a personal note. I don't want aid from some rich guy. My family is on the border between upper lower class and lower middle class. We teeter back and forth from year to year. I put myself through college by working a part time job and getting loans (with some federal grant money). It's not a very good school, I can't afford to go away to school, and it's the best within commutable distance. Sure It'd be nice to get some rich guy or whatever to give me some cash to go to a real school, but then it wouldn't be my accomplishment. Personal achievement means more to me than a handout.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'm saying that blind folks and crippled folks have a tough row to hoe through no fault of their own, and they will probably end up poor. Rich people should make sure that there is a place for them to work and to live, and they should make sure those folks have a ride wherever they want to go.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Oh, alright, I thought you meant a broader definition of handicapped. But yes, that I accept.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
You know, socialism (because isn't that pretty much what we're talking about here?) has always struck me as being, in most of it's forms, a matter of perspective. As long as you see them as "the poor" or "those people", I don't think it's ever really going to work out.
There are some guilt/responsibility and logical reasons. Affluent people can perceive that, to some extent, their lifestyle is built off of the suffering of others and Marx was right, if people don't have a reason to live and no opiate, they're going to turn to violent revolt. There are reasons like this, but I don't think they'll ever be enough.
It won't come until "those people", those who need help are seen as "my family". It won't come until the answer to "Why should I help?" is "Because it will help.", until "Why should I help?" isn't even a question we ask. And that help will rarely come in the form of simply donating money. Giving money is what we do to get the disturbing images off TV.
Through guilt and logic, you can get some people to give a tithe. Through perspective and attitude, you can get people to give their all. Or at least that's how it seems to me.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
And then there are plenty of "poor" people who are perfectly happy with where they are and what they've got. The last thing happy poor people need is some rich guy stepping in and telling them, usually by way of television, that they need some bling bling in their lives.
I must confess that I don't know any truly poor people...those who drink filthy water, and bathe in filthy water, and live in corrugated tin, shanty town shacks. I don't know how those people got there, and I don't know how to get them out. But everybody can agree that they ought to have clean water. That's something that they probably don't have the wherewithal to obtain for themselves. It wouldn't be too meddlesome for us rich folks to step in and dig a well, or set up a water purification plant, or build a sewage treatment facility. Teach them new ways for growing more nutritious crops. Teach their kids how to read. We can do that. Let them figure out for themselves how to upgrade from cardboard to tin to adobe. We don't want to take away all the fun of eking out an existence.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: I must confess that I don't know any truly poor people...those who drink filthy water, and bathe in filthy water, and live in corrugated tin, shanty town shacks.
quote: It wouldn't be too meddlesome for us rich folks to step in and dig a well, or set up a water purification plant, or build a sewage treatment facility. Teach them new ways for growing more nutritious crops. Teach their kids how to read. We can do that. Let them figure out for themselves how to upgrade from cardboard to tin to adobe. We don't want to take away all the fun of eking out an existence.
We also don't want to add to the feeling of entitlement, and that does become a huge problem.
For those of you who are new (because pretty much those who've been around for more than a few months know), I live in a third world country. One that was recently affected (that's a kind way of putting it) by the tsunami, and a lot of people who were previously living in cardboard shacks or tin huts are now living in camps because their houses were washed away. I could go on to cite other living conditions people here suffer through, but suffice it to say that these people really are the poor of the world.
Yes, help them. But don't give them everything. Make them earn it, too. While it's not their fault that they were born poor in a poor country, it is their fault that they don't try to get themselves out of that poverty. There are opportunities for financial advancement even here, if you're willing to work for it. Some are, most seem not to be.
There's a huge amount of laziness, apathy, lack of care, and a whole lot of blaming going on. I have heard the argument here - many times - that it's the government's fault they have a lousy job, or a lousy house, or not enough pay, or (pick your complaint). That's a universal belief here, that everything that's wrong in their lives is the government's fault. I grant you, the President is a crazy woman, but they elected her! They could have chosen to elect someone else instead. They could have chosen to do so many things. They could have chosen to get a better education, or to study harder, or to work hard instead of passing the buck, or . . . There are an infinite number of possibilities.
Teach them to work for what they want. Teach them the value of a strong work ethic. Teach them to achieve goals. That will make a huge difference.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Instead of building a water purification system and then running away, we could say: "We will set up a system for providing clean, reliable water IF you provide one individual for administering water distribution, three individuals for security, and three individuals for round-the-clock maintenance." This is where we could see poor people coming together, providing for themselves, and governing themselves. We've seen many examples in West Africa of poor villages maintaining and governing their own water systems.
I speak from the point of view of one who lives in the arid American West, where water means everything, and where for the past 200 years people have been required by the climate to come together for the purpose of administering water rights. To bring lasting change, it's going to have to be some vital issue such as water, food, or security that brings poor people together, NOT some orator standing at a podium. Rich people could provide the financial backing for water, for community farms, or for arming community militia or police.
The problem with moving from individuals providing for their own survival necessities to the community providing those necessities is the opportunity for abuse of that concentrated power. In West Africa, where there are already structured villages with recognized leaders, the abuse of power seems to be minimal. In an unstructured shanty town it wouldn't take much for a gang of criminals to take over the water, the farm, and the police.
Whoever started this discussion probably intended to focus on America's poor. Clean water isn't a problem. We at least have the illusion of security. Our problem is with food. You can't just start digging and planting. All the land is tied up. For food, you've got to have a job.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Affluent people can perceive that, to some extent, their lifestyle is built off of the suffering of others
Here's how I see it:
I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood on the west side of Phoenix. We lived from paycheck to paycheck. When it came time for new tires on the car, we replaced them one at a time over the course of a year. We never considered ourselves poor.
I went back to that neighborhood 25 years later. It is now mostly hispanic with a few blacks. If I tell anybody in Phoenix where I grew up, they shudder. It is now considered a poor area. Same houses. Same trees and grass. Same schools. Same stores.
We could never have moved out of that neighborhood if we hadn't found a buyer for that house. And everybody who's lived in that house since has had to find a buyer.
Our garbage man when we first moved to Phoenix was a white man. That was considered a lowly job by us kids. We didn't know that garbage men made good money. Later the garbage man was a black man, and now it's a hispanic man. The landscaping crew at the park and the maintenance crew at the school have changed colors too.
Where did the old landscaping crew go? A new crew came along that didn't need quite as much money. The old crew moved on to bigger money at a better job. If a new crew hadn't come along, the city would have just paid the original crew more money to keep them on.
So you can't move up unless somebody moves in to take your place. That's one of the things that makes this country great. The constant supply of new immigrants keeps everyone moving up.
Look at a country like Japan, where immigration is zero, and the population is declining. Good luck selling your house. Same job, same neighborhood for the rest of your life.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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