posted
I just don't see how "Asian" is any better than "Oriental". It seems more like, well "Oriental" now has a negative connotation, so lets use a different word with no connotation until it gets a negative connotation too, and then we will have to come up with something else....
quote: * Along with other perjoritives-when-used-by-outsiders referring to those of NativeAmerican, Jewish, Italian, MiddleEastern, German, Irish, African, Japanese, Polish, Latino, etc ancestry.
Pejorative meaning insulting, right? How did "Oriental" come to be insulting?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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"Every time I see that word it irritates me, kind of like how being called "Oriental" bothers some Asians. I may be in the minority, though. I have no idea how other Japanese or Japanese-Americans feel." Gee had no idea it was that bad, sax, I've actually been using it sometimes when talking to foreign language speakers because I'm not sure what they call Nippon, and Nihonjin I always forget and anyway it's hard to say(it's said kind of like Nihonjee isn't it?) My brother(he's a bit kooky) once told me Japanese didn't like being called Japanese, some sort of connection to cor connotation of "Jap" which I guess is offensive, right? Calling someone Japanese from Japan when they call themselves Nihonjin from Nippon really seems pretty akward. So I guess I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't eh? The word Nihonjin is totally unadapted to the english language so no one who doesn't know exactly what you're talking about will be able to guess. How does Nihonjinese work for you, Sax?
Posts: 1103 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Japanese didn't like being called Japanese, some sort of connection to cor connotation of "Jap" which I guess is offensive, right?
I've never personally run into a Japanese or Japanese-American person who has a problem with the word "Japanese." Admittedly, I've only actually met perhaps 50 or fewer people who are actually from Japan, so it could just be a fluke.
The term "Jap" is definitely offensive, although I've heard it used a fair amount by Japanese-Americans to Japanese-Americans; sort of like the black-on-black usage of the "N-word." Still, I'd be surprised if a person from Japan disliked the word "Japanese" because of bad associations arising from the term "Jap." The word itself is more of a WWII-era term, it doesn't get a lot of usage today. And back then, the people actually in Japan didn't really have a lot of Americans around to call them "Japs." It was the Japanese-Americans of the time that heard it the most, and those are the people that I've encountered who have the strongest reaction to the word.
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quote:I second the confusion about "Oriental" being offensive. We talk about Western and Eastern cultures and perspectives and whatnot. I have always thought the words "Oriental" and "Occiental" sounded beautiful and exotic. I have no negative connotations with the word.
Personally, I have no negative connotations with the word either. I grew up referring to myself as Oriental. To me, "Asian" sounds a little contrived, although as time passes I am becoming much more used to it. But I have friends and relatives who hate being called Oriental. Given that there are people who are offended by the word, I think it's more polite (and more convenient, really) to just refrain from using it.
There are rather a lot of words like that. I have several friends who are uncomfortable with the word "white" as applied to a person. They prefer the term "Caucasian." Maybe it is silly and a little inconvenient that I have to retrain myself to use a new word, and that some day I'll probably have to do it again as today's word picks up bad connotations, but I find it's generally more polite and also easier to just treat people the way they want to be treated than to try to convince them that they shouldn't feel that way.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Maybe it is silly and a little inconvenient that I have to retrain myself to use a new word,
Welcome to the club. There have been many words that used to not be offensive, or at least I never perceived them as offensive, but now some are run-of-the-mill offensive, and some are taboo. Some of the top of my head: oriental, negro, black, indian, and handicapped.
Posts: 1002 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:"American Indians," "Native Americans," and "First Nations people" are synonyms. They all refer to the same people. "Indigenous people" is a broader term that refers to any culture that lived in a place first. So Native Americans are all indigenous people, but not all indigenous people are Native Americans. For example, native African cultures are also indigenous.
Most indigenous people in the US use "American Indian," and most indigenous people in Canada use "First Nations." "Native Americans" or "indigenous Americans" are frequently used to refer to people in both countries. Some native people have a preference for one term or the other, but none of them are offensive. Most Native Americans identify themselves primarily by their tribe (such as Cherokee) anyway.
posted
It's funny how words and reactions to them evolve over time. Someone pointed out last year how the acceptable terms for blacks had evolved in the 20th century:From Colored People to Negroes to Blacks to African-Americans and back to People of Color.
I may have missed a couple of terms. --Morbo
[ February 17, 2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: the Professor ]
Posts: 111 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I think that though we have our disputes about Oriental versus Asian, we can all agree that Azn is right out.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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WilliamRandolfHearst and JosephPulitzer, YellowPeril and YellowJournalism: with the "Yellow" being specificly aimed at AsianAmericans -- ie "They can't be trusted because their loyalty is always to their ancestral homeland."* -- along with hit pieces against Asian countries to "justify" the bigotry*. Sold lots of papers to lots of folks wanting an excuse to hate.
Despite all the anti-Japanese and anti-Chinese legislation* preventing them from having the same rights as and being treated the same as other citizens, the Japanese and Chinese still became very successful through the margins in which they were allowed to work.
As is all too frequently the case, if an identifiable minority group becomes successful despite all the legal&social barriers placed in front of them, many-to-most of the majority group will believe "They must be cheating!!!"
In that context, oriental was specificly chosen to dehumanize Asians.
* Similar to the KluKluxKlan, Daughters of the Confederacy, Sons of Confederate Veterans, etc allying themselves with BibleBelt "christian"churches and "SouthernHeritage"newspapers to pass laws forbidding RomanCatholics from holding public office or government jobs using the pretext of "the separation of church and state" on "Everybody knows that Catholics can't be trusted to uphold the laws cuz their primary loyalty is to the Pope."
quote: Is there a PC term for Asians from the Indian subcontinent? Somehow I doubt my Bangladeshi friends would appreciate being called Indians. I have heard them (Bangladeshi) refer to themselves (Indians and Bangladeshi) as "brown people" but I do not know if it would be offensive if a white person used the term.
Here, the brown people sometimes refer to people like me as pinkies. Whatever.
Indians, as in those from the subcontinent of India, prefer to be called Indians, not Asians. Indians, in particular northern Indians, look more European than anything else. They sometimes have violet or grey eyes, and their skin color can be as pale as mine, although with a brown undertone, not pink. While black and dark brown are the most common haircolors, they do sometimes have red hair. Facial features can be European looking, at least from our perspective. In the Hindi movies that we sometimes watch, I have seen a number of people who, if I saw them on a sidewalk in Canada or Europe, would figure they were as white and of European ancestry as me. They could be my cousins.
Historically, though, Europeans came from north Indian, or so the theory goes. Northern Indians are sometimes referred to as Aryan. Not in common usage, though, but in historical perspective.
Lankans, as those from Sri Lanka call themselves, do not like to be called Indians. At all. Lankans and Indians are not best of friends and sometimes hate each other. The same can be said of the other various countries in the region. Pakistanis do not like to be confused with Indians either. And Bangladeshis - well, I can only guess that that might be what they prefer to be called. I don't know any myself.
Think of it this way. Canadians don't like to be called Americans, even though we're all a part of the American continents. American is a term usually used to denote people from the USA. Canadians and Americans, despite obvious similarities, have different cultures.
Well, I'm speaking for the Canadians I know, anyway. And me. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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