posted
I have a friend who is due the same week I was. Her baby is breech, and since it's getting down to the wire here, if the baby doesn't turn she will have to have a hospital birth, possibly a c-sec. She's having a version done today, which is great, I'd do the same. But she's acting as if, if the baby doesn't trun and she ends up having a section, it will be the end of the world. I just cannot deal with that right now.I have been avoiding her calls and emails; I just want to tell her to get over herself. Yes, do all you safely can to have that natural homebirth, I know I'd do the same, but if it doesn't work and you end up with a section, don't sit there nursing your healthy baby and whine about your birth plans not working out.
I know, I'm being b****y and self absorbed, but I can't help it.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I think that's completely fair. You don't even have to say anything, but if your conscience pricks you, you could tell her you just can't talk right now.
It does NOT make you bitchy. I think this is one of the uncomfortable interaction things that happen when you have civilization - no one is at fault, it's a little tight quarters here. It's okay to take yourself out of the arena.
I apologize for the mixed metaphor.
Added: I'm assuming that your recent experience has slipped her mind. If it hasn't and she's doing it anyway, I'm floored. For the sake of friendship, we can assume the incredible rudeness is caused by a temporary fit of insanity. Those happen.
[ March 29, 2005, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Nope. It's a normal, natural, and expected response.
She does know about your recent history, yes? Has she asked about whether this is making you uncomfortable with her?
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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You're not being a bad friend - you just went through an amazingly traumatic experience and are just not emotionally equipped to lend strength you don't have yet for yourself.
And if she weren't in such emotional distress and was thinking clearly, I'd like to think she wouldn't ask you of all people for emotional support on her particular issue, all things considered.
Take care of yourself first and then worry about others.
quote: Does she know what you just went through???!!!
yep. That's what I don't get.
But I keep hearing ( not from her) that I am supposed to be more sensitive and helpful now. And I feel bad that I can't be. I'm glad you guys don't think I'm being a b***h.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
This doesn't make you a bad person or a bad friend.
When I was undergoing fertility treatments, we were at a Christmas party and a friend of mine was there and she was overdue. She was huge, and in fact went into labor later that very night.
I couldn't take it, I went outside and burst into tears. I felt angry at myself and guilty, because I couldn't share in her excitement and happiness. So I have an inkling of what you're feeling.
How you feel right now is perfectly acceptable, and I'm sorry you're going through it.
posted
I am thinking this makes HER a bad friend. Seriously! Doesn't she have other friends/family she can share her concerns with? How can she expect you to be right there with her on this when what you experienced is far more devistating?
I'm sorry, but I am feeling really ticked off at your friend right now. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Actually, I'd say your friend is the one being self-absorbed and whiny, and I don't understand the other people who are telling you you need to be sensitive... I'm sorry you have to deal with this now, I think you are doing the right thing by detaching from the situation.
Posts: 239 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Okay, the insanity is more permanent than I was afraid of.
You are NOT being a bad friend. This is why people have more than one friend - so that one person does not have to do all friend-type things. She should go to someone else right now. You, dear romany, are not available to her for this.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Tell them to bite you. They can't dictate if you should or not - it's your feelings.
Seriously - you know how you feel, and they don't. If you don't feel comfortable or happy doing it, then that is perfectly fine.
Added: In my first area, the daughter of the stake president died. She was married with four children, and her dad was a friend of our mission president. The missionaries were invited to go and stand along the road as an escort for the funeral caravan or whatever it is. I wasn't excited about it, but my comp convinced me that I should (I think she wanted to go). I wish I hadn't. I burst into tears halfway through and just wanted to leave, and it would have been fine if I had. I was too much of a pansy to tell her no. I wish I had.
This is your call. *hug*
[ March 29, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I also feel really obligated to be truly happy for her and not let my grief get in the way of that. Right after baby Brian died she said she felt gulity for still being pregnant, when we were so close we might have had our babies on the same day. I felt bad about that.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Your friend is being a b****, not you. And I'm completely floored that your friends and family would say that to you, especially so soon after your loss. That's awful of them. (((dpr)))
Posts: 957 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."
Well - in the LONG term, maybe - but not right now!
I mean - I am more sensitive now to people who lose a parent, since I lost my father -- but I definately wasn't more sensitive the first year or two after it happened -- I was still HURTING too much to be of any help to others.
And it will maybe be that way for you -- after time has passed and you have a better handle on the hurt, then maybe it will help you help others. But it doesn't work that way for everyone. And it certainly doesn't happen this fast.
posted
Farmgirl has a good point - you may be more sensitive, but that's AFTER you've recovered somewhat and dealt with it all. Right now, you're still hurting and dealing with it. It's not time yet for that other stuff - it doesn't have to be.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
((dpr)) You are not being self-absorbed. If anything, I have been floored by your graciousness at times, such as when you congratulated me in my "expecting" thread. It actually made me cry that you were so loving.
Your friend is the one being self-absorbed. Yes, I know when you're having a baby it seems as though you're the center of the universe, but this lady needs to get a grip and learn the meaning of respect and kindness.
quote: I also feel really obligated to be truly happy for her and not let my grief get in the way of that.
Baloney. Obligation doesn't generate emotion, especially in a case like this. You are making yourself feel unecessarily guilty. Don't guilt trip yourself for this!
posted
People sometimes lose sight of others pain and or tribulations when they are in the midst of events important to them. Your friend has lost some perspective and I would suggest that you remind her in a kindly way the next time she complains about her situation. Would you be able to say, in the most empathetic way you can, "Friend, I do understand your frustration if things don't work out perfectly but you should focus on how wonderful it will be when your healthy baby arrives".?
I guess it's hard for some people to know how to respond to this situation. Just last week another freind asked me if I would be able to make it to her baby shower...I mumbled something noncommital but really wanted to say, "Are you nuts?"
OTOH, most of my friends are being very sensitive ( note that family is not mentioned as such). It's just a few, but enough to upset me some days.
Edit; spelling, and to add, Well said, punwit. Perhaps it is in order for me to say that.
posted
romany, you need time to grieve and heal, and if someone doesn't understand that, then they are the ones being bad friends.
Yes, this may be something that makes you more compassionate in the future, but when the wounds are still raw and the pain is still fresh - it's perfectly okay for you to be selfish and focus on your own healing and not be concerned about others.
I agree - don't guilt trip yourself over this.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Your reaction, wanting to avoid contact with the friend, is fine -- in fact, it's much more restrained and mature than what I'd do, which would be to put such a guilt trip on the friend that she would never again be able to think of me without weeping and gnashing her teeth with remorse.
Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
I would probably just wait until a pause in my friends complaining and say something like "I'd give a lot to be in your shoes right now." or maybe be a little more direct and when she begins just say "I'm sorry X, but this is really hard for me to hear right now."
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I had an induction (despite my best attempts) with my first. I sort of felt that it had been unnecessary, that my doctor had been overcautious, and it would have been ok to wait until I had gone into labor. I whined about it to a friend (who at that point was single). She said something I have remembered to this day.
"How DARE you! You have a healthy baby. So it wasn't the way you wanted, and you're not thrilled about that. Fine. But whether you agree with Dr. [X]'s decision or not, it gave you your daughter."
Now, I don't 100% agree with her. I think it is more than reasonable to have be unhappy when one's vision of "the perfect birth" becomes unworkable. But I would start to avoid a friend who was obsessively focused on that -- to the exclusion of the goal, a healthy child -- even if I had NOT recently lost a child.
For her to expect you to be a constant source of sympathy -- or for anyone else to expect you to be such for her -- is absolutely unconscionable.
posted
DPR, that is what they call a toxic friend. I am sorry. If she had a clue, or if other people did, they would leave you alone about this.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I don't think she's doing it to hurt you, she's just unthinking. You know how people get about childbirth. You are not a bad friend to avoid her, though. You just need to take care of you, and if she ends up hating you, wait a while, then explain what you were going through, and she'll get over it. And if she doesn't, then the friendship is her loss, not yours. (((hugs)))
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
The woman who sits next to me at work, one of my best friends here, became completely unaware of anyone's feelings but her own during a large portion of her pregnancy. I pretty much knew it was due to her emotional state, she was having a very hard time of it, and didn't worry about it. (None of it really affected me, unlike your situation, dpr.) She took a long maternity leave, and I had pretty much forgotten about it all.
When she came back, the first thing she did was come over and apologize for how unsensitive and bitchy she had acted towards me. She said she realized after all the hormones had restabalized that she had been completely out of line on several occasions, and she really hoped it wouldn't hurt our working relationship or our friendship.
I thought she was blowing it a bit out of proportion, and thanked her for the apology and told her we were fine.
My point, kinda, is to echo what everyone else is saying here. You are not acting like a bad friend, she is. She's probably not aware of how it's affecting you. Avoiding her is probably the best thing you can do right now, and later on, after the baby is born, you guys will probably be able to talk about it an smooth things over.
Oh, and totally don't go to any baby showers. Whenever they're set for, you have a root canal that day and probably won't be feeling up to it, so sorry but thanks for inviting me and best wishes.
posted
Wow. Things like this make me wonder whether the theory that I heard about there being more sociopaths in the world than anyone ever imagined is true.
This person is not thinking of you, dpr. She's not thinking of you at all, not thinking about how she would feel if she were in your position. I say bring it up to her the next time she talks about it, and damn the consequences. Someone who will do that to you... I don't know... They are not worth helping.
And for the record, in my opinion the whole "being more sensitive" thing is baffling and doesn't make any logical sense. For now, think more of yourself and the other people who were affected by what happened to you, not people who are unrelated who aren't willing to be sensitive to you.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
dpr, anything I say will echo what everyone else has already said in this thread. Nevertheless, I'm going to say it again because it sounds like you need the reassurance that you're not nuts, whiny, bitchy, or insensitive. You're not. At all.
You are grieving. You need to be allowed to grieve in whatever way is best for you. You need to be allowed to deal with what you're going through in whatever way you need to deal with it.
If you don't feel like going to baby showers, don't. If you don't want to talk about pregnancy concerns, don't. If you don't want to talk about anything at all, then don't.
You don't owe them anything right now. Nothing except basic politeness and civility. You don't owe them a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to.
Be gentle with yourself and protect yourself from further hurt. (((dpr))) And give them a good swift kick in the head if necessary, even if it's only in a daydream. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
The more I think about this, the less I am annoyed with your friend, and the more I am onnyed by the attitude you are getting from the others. Grrr. They are the ones who should be able to see this more clearly.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Not to excuse this 'friend' (not at ALL), but I'd like to point out that sometimes one does not know what is the right thing to say when someone loses a baby. Obviously, in dpr's instance, b*tching about not being able to have a homebirth is totally inappropriate (I am shocked at the callousness).
I just wanted to say this as a point of information, and for kind of an apology for not rendering my condolences to those of us who have had a miscarriage or stillbirth. I hope you know that the lurkers and fluff-posters do hold you in our hearts at this time.
posted
I don't know that it is necessary that one of you be considered a "bad friend" in this scenario. I'm not sure how it is in your state/municipality, but people have to be pretty darn committed to do home birth around here. It's pretty much a subculture, and if you were part of that I don't think it's totally unexpected that she would look to you for support and sympathy. However, it is totally understandable for you to not have that support to give.
quote: Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now."
Do they say this about the current situation about your friend or just as a generality about your loss? People just say that stuff because the don't know what else to say.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I agree with everyone else. You aren't a bad friend at all, just because you can't be the most supportive friend in the world at this minute. Your feelings are valid, and it is unfair for your friends and family to demand that you put them aside for someone who has it pretty good compared to you.
And yes, someday you'll be able to help other women go through hardships with their pregnancies, but you have to heal first. You shouldn't be expected to be sensitive right now. I wasn't able to help other depressed people until my own problems were under control, for instance.
I'm sorry you have all of this to deal with on top of your grief. ((dpr))
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I think we are all being a bit overprotective of you, too. None of this makes anyone else a bad, or toxic, person, It just makes them very insensitive.
You will be fine, and this situation will probably make you a stronger and more sensitive person in the long run, but this is all too soon right now. Give yourself time to heal a bit, time to grieve. Until you do, you don;t owe anyone any type of support, not until you are a little better prepared for it.
Your friend is a good friend, but she is the one out of line here, not you. Not at all. I would just make it VERY clear that you are not up to this right now, and wish her well.
posted
(((((((((((romany))))))))))))) You're a far better friend than she is. *hugs tight* Don't let this get to you, even though I know that's impossible... you're a wonderful friend, and a wonderful person.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Chiming in...No, you are absolutely not being a bad friend. Some people tend to be a little self-absorbed when they get stressed and forget about the people around them. I have a friend like this; we joke that her theme song is, "It's all about meeeeeeee!"
In situations like these, I think maybe distancing yourself from this friend for a bit might not be a bad idea. I'm not saying totally cut her off, but it seems to me that she's putting a lot of strain on the bond of friendship. Perhaps you could be "busy" the next time she calls or wants to talk or something?
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Both family and friends. "This will make you a more sensitive person. You'll be better able to help other people now." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do they say this about the current situation about your friend or just as a generality about your loss? People just say that stuff because the don't know what else to say.
They mean in general. Our families especially ( those that are not totally ingoring the situation, as if I had never been pregnant) are bound and determined to find silver linings in this and force us to see the, right now.
See, this friend has been a good friend overall. She has taken opportnuities to ask questions and offer support even though she has to be thinking, Wow, that could have been me . Given that two of my pregnant friends are avoiding me like the plague (literally), I am grateful that she's been there. I do care enough about her to maybe gently bring up the subject.
Belle, I know that felling . Pregnant women make me want to cry.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
dpr, you're a great friend - I am amazed at the graciousness and restraint that you are showing to this person. Like Space Opera, I was so touched that you posted in my fertility thread and by all the kindness and support you've given me.
There was a woman who worked for me who had the exact same due date that I would have had and I found it incredibly difficult to be around her. Even now, years later, I have a hard time going to baby showers.
Please tell people who fuss at you that there's no timetable for grief.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
You know I think the whole "finding the silver lining thing" is definately an instinct. People who love you don't want you to be sad; they want you to be happy, and are grasping at anything they think could cheer you up.
That said, having people point out a silver lining before you're ready to see it is horrible. After I miscarried I heard a lot of, "Well, at least you miscarried early." When my daughter was diagnosed with epilepsy I heard, "Well, at least it's not cancer. It could be worse." I seriously wanted to punch those people for awhile. Yes, after you have the chance to heal a bit you *can* see the silver lining; but not while you're still grieving.
I met a 16-year-old whose mom had epilepsy. We were talking and I shared with her how frustrating it was to hear "It could be worse." (This was pretty soon after Operaetta's diagnosis) Her reply was, "Well, it's the worst thing you've ever been through, right?" Wow - what a wise young woman! I realized it was okay to mourn and it was okay to be angry when I needed to be. Yes, my daughter didn't have cancer, but what she had completely changed our lives, and it wasn't something I got over in a week.
Keep hanging in there, dpr. We're all here for you and thinking of you.
posted
A bad friend would have never started this thread, romany.
I would just be honest with your friend and tell her you are still fragile and grieving, and some topics just aren't good for you to deal with now. She will probably understand.
It's very sad, and you might have to wait awhile before you see it, but I liked Everything Put Together , a film about pregancy, loss and grieving, and shallow friendships. Radha Mitchell stars in it and gives a moving performance.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
No offense to anyone involved here, and slightly off topic... What the heck is wrong with having a friggin c-sec?? My brother and I were BOTH born by c-section, and hey! We're fine, our mom is fine, it worked just fine. Its probably a lot less painful than natural birth too, not that I would know, just guessing.
(((rommany))) You aren't being a bad friend, she is.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Alcon, in general terms one problem is that many feel that too many unneccesary c-section procedures are performed in the US.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I've been away from Hatrack/lurking a lot recently, but this thread has brought me back. You are not a bad friend, dpr. The fact that you're even worrying about how good a friend you are at a time when you've been through an unimaginable personal tragedy proves that you're a good person. A selfish person wouldn't care whether she's a good friend. Your wounds are still deep, and as everyone else has said, need time to heal.
Your friend is likely totally oblivious to the fact that she is hurting you so much. She doesn't mean it, but that doesn't mean you should have to deal with her comments. You are right in avoiding her, even though it is always tough to ignore our friends. She'll understand. If not right away, when her body is under the influence of mind-altering hormones, she will eventually.
posted
Seriously, it's true. Very few women are themselves this late in pregnancy. Most are self-absorbed and sometimes irrational. Brain chemistry is a funny thing.
Limit your time with her for a bit, and try to forgive her for being a butt, later.
I'm really sorry for your loss. Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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