posted
My normally well behaved kids, along with a few of their normally well behaved buddies jumped into a neighbor’s pool without permission. It started as a dare. They opened the gate; dared each other to push someone in and it was on from there.
I was pretty upset. There was a fair amount of grounding at our home. It turns out that none of the other kids involved were grounded. One father laughed it off and had a few words to say about my grounding the kids for such a minor thing as pool jumping. Another mom said she was going back to work in two weeks and didn’t want to mess up the time that she had left to spend with her daughter this summer. My issue isn’t necessarily with how the parents handled the incident, their business, it’s the feedback my kids got from their friends regarding the way their parents handled it. My kids got a lot of crap about being grounded. Okay, maybe I’m a little pissed about my friends laughing off or dismissing the incident.
I asked my kids if they'd go into a neighbor’s house if it was unlocked and help themselves to the refrigerator. Of course not! Same thing! They were breaking and entering into private property. What if someone had gotten hurt? What if they had damaged something? How would they feel if someone did that to their own private property?
Am I nuts?
I’m not normally a heavy handed disciplinarian. I find myself to be pretty balanced. I try to practice the “punishment fitting the crime” law.
This really upset me. They’d never done anything at all like this. My daughter is a very mature 11 yr-old and my son a normal 14 yr-old. I want them to remember this when they’re older. This will be a good memory. And what in the world will they be able to tell my grandchildren, to scare them, if I don’t give them some type of discipline for this type of behavior?
How many of you ever pool jumped or did something as naughty? What kind of lesson did you learn? What type of discipline did you receive?
Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I did lots of naughty things as a kid. I tell ya, I would not be the same person I am today if I didn't. And I like who I am today...
I think kids NEED to break a rule now and then in order to become well adjusted adults. There's something deep down that shrivels up and dies if you never give into temptation.
When kids break rules, its all about taking the risk. Your job as a parent largely involves limiting your child's risks, but in spite of this, the kids still need to learn to take them now and then. Deciding which risks to take is a huge part of growing up.
I understand your reaction, but I also understand the other parents'. They recognize that the kids did break a rule, but that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that bad of a risk to take. The kids did put themselves in minor danger, but no more than climbing a tree. They did risk getting in trouble, but it would have been minor trouble at best. So the parents aren't too upset, and probably see themselves in their children. Who hasn't done something similar?
Your kids might learn to avoid taking risks of getting in trouble, or they might not. You can never truly predict the effect of punishment on a child. Whose kids are more likely to turn down an offer of drugs or alcohol in later years? You probably think yours are, believing that the punishment helped them choose not to take risks. They probably think their kids will, since the kids got to expirement pretty freely with taking risks at a younger age. Whose kids have a better chance of turning out to be good people?
Nobody knows, and so nobody really has the right to tell other parents how to disipline their kids. I've known very strict parents whose three kids turned out to be drug dealers and high school drop outs (all three). I myself had lots of personal freedom, and ended up (I think) a pretty responsible, moral, and well adjusted person. Its not hard to find screwed up kids with either type.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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After all, they could have been arrested for breaking and entering -- especially if the people who owned the pool were to throw a fit about this happening.
So, in other words, they could have faced a much more dire punishment than just a grounding -- and not at your hands! It was truly illegal, and we like for our kids to learn to respect the laws and understand the consequences of what could happen if they break laws.
posted
You are absolutely within your rights to enforce your rules, and I think prohibiting tresspassing is a good one.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I did several things of that nature.. and fully expected to be drawn and quartered if I was caught.
You are handling it properly and it is serious as well as dangerous, but it is also the kind of thing kids will do.
Would've been fitting if neighbor had just shock treated the pool and it gave everyone a good rash
And, honestly, a good solid and fair punishment makes it a better memory... then it becomes "remember the outrageous things we did and how we got busted that one time?" rather than "hey... I never got punished for that before...!"
posted
*points* Listen to Jim-Me. I've met his kids, and they all know their manners, and know how to behave around kids and adults. "Kids will do dumb things, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for it." Sounds like good advice to me!
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Arrested or shot. All it takes is one skittish neighbor.
I'm assuming they knew this neighbor didn't have a guard dog or just an ill-tempered animal about the premises.
Not to mention the very real possibility of drowning, although I don't know if that's as much a possibility for your kids at this point or not.
That said, I don't think you overreacted - your kids obviously didn't consider the consequences of what they did (or were about to do, at the time) and understanding the concept of "consequences for actions" is a much underrated survival skill.
I'd go a step further and explain _why_ you're upset - yes, in the grand scheme of things pool-jumping is relatively minor, albeit illegal offense. But they must understand what might have happened for what seemed like a momentary bit of harmless fun.
posted
It's like cops and robbers. The older you get, the worse the results from getting caught by the, uh, cops.
The thing is with the pool, is that it was unsupervised, and gates are for keeping unattended kids out, even if it's a teen. Why? Because something could happen, someone could hit their head, and no one would know where they were.
I know that when I worked at a summer camp, my campers knew that the only time I'd get angry at them and they'd Serious Discipline for is when they put themselves or anyone in danger of harm.
Of couse there were other rules, and if they broke them, they'd pay for it in some ingenious camp way. But I also taught them the fun of practical jokes with certain rules. No one gets hurt and nothing gets broken or destroyed in any way.
They followed it and came up with some brilliant jokes.
Hell, part of camp IS playing jokes. I'd caught more than a few of them running through camp in the middle of the night.
Were they supposed to be in their cabins?
Yes.
Did I send them back?
No. They remained in the lighted cabin area and there were a large group of them. I told them to be quiet or they'd get caught by someone who doesn't appreciate a good joke. And if I heard them again, I'd send them back.
However, if I ever caught a kid in the boating or swimming area without permission, that kid would be in some serious trouble. Water plus unsupervised kids is just asking for trouble.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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As several people have reiterated, there is a lot that could have gone wrong... and bulletproof teens seldom think about that.
You are just letting them know to do so... but don't let it stop you from laughing with (and at) them for their impudence!
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote: I think kids NEED to break a rule now and then in order to become well adjusted adults. There's something deep down that shrivels up and dies if you never give into temptation.
When kids break rules, its all about taking the risk. Your job as a parent largely involves limiting your child's risks, but in spite of this, the kids still need to learn to take them now and then. Deciding which risks to take is a huge part of growing up.
I understand your reaction, but I also understand the other parents'. They recognize that the kids did break a rule, but that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that bad of a risk to take. The kids did put themselves in minor danger, but no more than climbing a tree. They did risk getting in trouble, but it would have been minor trouble at best. So the parents aren't too upset, and probably see themselves in their children. Who hasn't done something similar?
See, this really bothers me. Yes, kids take risks--Yes, they give into temptation...but just because we KNOW they're going to do it doesn't mean they should get away without any consequences. As an adult, these would be natural consequences of their actions. As a child, those consequences are created by parents, since natural consequences aren't guaranteed to occur, after all. But it's all about teaching your kids proper behavior, and above ALL, that MOMMY means BUSINESS. Consistency is so important when raising children, they remember when you give in. It's only okay to give in if you want to raise little hellions.
Tammy was right to discipline her children for their actions. She wasn't being a mean mommy. She has a responsibility to those children to help them learn right from wrong, decorum, and all that jazz.
That father taught his children that it's okay to disrespect other people's property if you really want to.
That other mother taught her daughter that if she really wants something, all she has to do is make mommy feel guilty for working.
Tammy, your kids will learn to deal with being one of the few kids on the block with parents that care enough to discipline--and someday, they'll thank you for it.
Of course... I'm not a parent... But I watch Nanny911 and Supernanny. I pay attention.
posted
I think what they did was about as dangerous as crossing the street. The boy was 14 years old for crying out loud. If he climbed a tree would he be grounded for a year? I can't imagine what he would get for riding his bike around the block
I have no problem with him being punished for breaking a rule (and even more understanding if its for breaking the law), but I don't think they should be given a safety lecture. The pool was filled with water, not razor blades.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Yeah, he's 14 years old--so he should know better than to trespass in someone else's yard and pool. THAT is the point, here. And there are plenty of accidents that occur in and around pools--especially when there is a group of laughing/running kids around.
posted
Water can be quite dangerous. A kid falls, hits his head and goes into the water. If he can't get out, he's got 4-6 minutes under there before brain damage can occur.
Yeah, kids will do silly and dumb things. They'll take risks, it's a part of life.
But there's consequences. And there's some significant consequences when they do something that puts them in danger.
Xav, I think it was as dangerous as crossing the street, but only if they didn't look both ways before they did so.
I think having been a lifeguard and growing up around water my whole life, I have a lot of respect for it.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote: See, this really bothers me. Yes, kids take risks--Yes, they give into temptation...but just because we KNOW they're going to do it doesn't mean they should get away without any consequences.
Did I say that? No, I don't think I did. I did say that if the other parents believe that what their kids did doesn't warrent punishment, its none of anyone elses business, except perhaps the owner of the pool.
quote:That father taught his children that it's okay to disrespect other people's property if you really want to.
That other mother taught her daughter that if she really wants something, all she has to do is make mommy feel guilty for working.
Excuse me? How do you make these flying leaps of logic. Not punishing your kid for something does not mean you are condoning their actions. Did the parents tell the kid not to do it again? YOU DON'T KNOW. You do not have to ground your kid for something in order to teach them a lesson.
quote:Tammy, your kids will learn to deal with being one of the few kids on the block with parents that care enough to discipline--and someday, they'll thank you for it.
How DARE you say the other parents don't care enough about their kids. They don't have the same disipline philosophy. That has nothing to do with caring.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote: Excuse me? How do you make these flying leaps of logic. Not punishing your kid for something does not mean you are condoning their actions. Did the parents tell the kid not to do it again? YOU DON'T KNOW. You do not have to ground your kid for something in order to teach them a lesson.
Not punishing your kid for something DOES mean that you are condoning their actions. The only time it doesn't is when you're no longer in the position to be able to punish them.
EDIT: Also, another time when it's not necessary to discipline (I should have said discipline--not punish up there), is when the natural consequences are already severe enough to teach the appropriate lesson.
TELLING a kid not to do something again without any sort of solid discipline is worth NOTHING. No, they didn't have to ground their children, but they FAILED their children by looking the other way.
quote: How DARE you say the other parents don't care enough about their kids. They don't have the same disipline philosophy. That has nothing to do with caring.
I say it quite easily. Parents who CARE about their children DISCIPLINE their children.
posted
Xavier, you're obviously not a homeowner. Stupid stunts are one thing, breaking and entering is another. If someone had broken into my yard to go pool jumping, I would have been livid. Knowing that you had punished them, Tammy, would have been enough for me. If I found out the other parents did nothing, I might have pressed charges.
Kids do stupid things. It's up to their parents to make sure they know how stupid they were and not to do it again. I think the other parents fell down on the job pretty hard. Now their kids think pool jumping is OK.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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So I guess this is the point where personal assumptions are made. *sigh* Actually I do have partial ownership of a house, which even has a pool. But why exactly was that assumption "obvious"? Was I implying that I wouldn't be upset if someone were swimming in my pool without my permission? Reread my posts, I never said anything of the sort.
quote:Kids do stupid things. It's up to their parents to make sure they know how stupid they were and not to do it again. I think the other parents fell down on the job pretty hard. Now their kids think pool jumping is OK.
Again, how do you know that the kids think that? How do you know that the parents didn't tell their kids that what they did was wrong? What's so special about punishment that its required to teach your children not to do something?
Do none of you remember being 14 years old? Are you really saying that you can't learn a lesson at that age without punishment?
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Um, there are a lot of things I did as a kid that I didn't get punished for that I KNOW my parents didn't think was okay.
In this case, if it were my kid, I probably would have had them apologize in person to the person who owned the pool and make whatever restitution that person wanted them to make rather than grounding them. If that person was like, "Oh, that's okay," I wouldn't expect my kids to be like, "Oh pool-jumping is just fine, no one cares." But I did know a few home-owners as a kid who didn't really care if someone sneaked into their pool as long as they behaved safely and didn't break things or make themselves nuisances.
So I wouldn't've gone with NO punishment, but I wouldn't have grounded them, you know?
Still some parents value risk-taking in their kids. I can definitely see and understand that, and it doesn't seem to me like pool jumping is such a huge risk. It's not like taking crack or something. Just-- there are far worse things that they could have been doing.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:One father laughed it off and had a few words to say about my grounding the kids for such a minor thing as pool jumping.
One father said it was minor. It's not - it's trespassing and it's dangerous. I bet the same father would sue the homeowner if something had happened.
quote:Another mom said she was going back to work in two weeks and didn’t want to mess up the time that she had left to spend with her daughter this summer.
This mother obviously cared a great deal about teaching the lesson, huh?
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by dean: But I did know a few home-owners as a kid who didn't really care if someone sneaked into their pool as long as they behaved safely and didn't break things or make themselves nuisances.
Dean,
you know some dangerously uneducated homeowners. They are liable for anything that happens in their pool. If those kids get hurt, their parents can sue... especially if the kids were there unsupervised.
Xavier,
No one is saying that 14 year olds can't learn without punishment... what people are saying is that actions speak louder than words and when your actions make it so there is no consequence, it doesn't matter how many times you say "that was wrong", what children know is that it didn't get anyone concerned enough to take action.
Punishment may be severe or lenient, but it has to be there or the lack of action betrays the meaninglessness of your words.
posted
As has been said, it's not necessarily that the kids were going to get hurt--although that was a real danger. It was that they were doing the wrong thing and they knew it. They need to expect consequences for that kind of action.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sorry Farmgirl, just know when I am getting more upset then a topic warrents. Its usually time to exit gracefully if I can, or like a whiny bitch like above .
Its okay, all it takes is for me to say I am done with it, and I instantly lose that emotional attachment I had to the argument. Lets me take a much needed deep breath.
I usually only need it once in a great while, but its harder when you feel like you are the only one arguing a given side. Can be overwelming, and can easily trigger your "I'm being ganged up on" flight of fight thing. Even when the opposite side is being largely respectful and rational (as in this case).
So sorry again, and I probably will be back to discuss more (if its still active), I just need to chill for a bit.
Edit: misspellings are a good sign that my blood is a little hotter than it should be, so I'm gonna let the massive spelling and grammar mistakes in this post stand, sort of as evidence .
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote: One father laughed it off and had a few words to say about my grounding the kids for such a minor thing as pool jumping.
Sorry, but that doesn't sound like someone who has taught their children that what they did was wrong, punishment or not.
Xavier, I assumed you weren't a homeowner, because if you were, you would know that you, the homeowner, could be held liable if anyone got hurt. Was that gate locked? Was it standing ajar? Did it present enough of an obstacle even though they should know better in the first place?
edit: Sorry to jump on you Xavier. I've seen something similar to his before where the homeowner got sued by the parents because they should have done a better job of keeping their kids out.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Xavier -- are you gonna throw something at me if I say "you might have a different viewpoint once you have kids" ??
Because it really does change your view on some of these things when you are the parent. Really. At least it sure change my viewpoints on a lot of things..
But you know I really like you, so I'm not trying to make you mad. I'm just trying to continue the discussion. I think most of the other people who have posted counter=points are parents, and I wonder if that changes perspective at all.
Yeah - I agree on some things it is a "pick your battles" and don't make a big deal out of little stuff -- when it comes to parenting. On that point I agree with you. This just happens to be more toward the "bigger" end for me (even though no one got hurt) just because of the idea of respecting other people's property -- not because it was a pool.
posted
It is my business when those kids go on continuing to think they can do whatever they want and start breaking into MY property... or when they grow up and continue the same sort of behavior, yet elevated a few notches.
I can't make the parents start being GOOD parents, but I can certainly make my opinion known on the subject because how you raise your children DOES affect our society. And as a member of society, that makes it my business.
This is going to seem like an extremist statement, and I don't mean it as harsh as it sounds...but I really do believe that parents not disciplining their children is a form of child abuse. No, it's not the same as other types of abuse...and certainly not as horrific, but it is definitely doing those children a disservice.
posted
You know, not all kids need some sort of punishment to understand that they've done something wrong. I can't recall a time I was ever grounded, but I think I've turned out all right. Most of the time knowing my parents were disappointed in me was enough to make me feel rather bad.
Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I think If I just choose what to reply to I might be okay.
Zan, I know the laws about liability. New York actually has a law where you need a 4 foot fence with all doors automatically latching and swinging closed if left open. Again dude, I never said I wouldn't be upset with my kid if he swam in someones pool without permission, and I also never said that I wouldn't be mad if someone swam in mine...
And to both you and Farmgirl, I never said that Tammy shouldn't have punished her kids. Everyone's kids respond differently to punishment, and everyone has different disipline styles. If it were my kid, I might have done the exact same thing.
My issue here was everyone judging the other parents. We only have second hand accounts of what was said and done by them first of all, and we have no idea what their kids are like, or how they respond to punishment secondly.
My first post presented both sides as being valid ways of dealing with having your kids' misbehave. I never said that either way was wrong. Everyone else on this thread expept dean were saying that tammy's way is right, and that the other parents were in the wrong. Or am I misunderstanding the other side as well as being misunderstood?
Edit: And I might not be a parent yet, but it wasn't too long ago I was a teenager. I think my views are just as valid. I was never officially grounded, and I learned my lessons just fine. For some kids, having a rational talk about what they did wrong, and why it was wrong, does wonders for correcting behavior. Far better than punishment does. The boy is 14 for crying out loud. You parents haven't forgotten what it was like to be 14 have you? Which way would have worked best on you? Grounding or a good talking to?
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote: but I really do believe that parents not disciplining their children is a form of child abuse.
Not een colse to it, IMO. Just because I chose to teach my kids some other way than what you would have chosen to do it DOES NOT make it ANY of your business.
That siad, I would have probably done SOMETHING to my kids for that, and considered it part of my duty as a parent.
Xavier....I think her main point was that someone else had a problem with the way she disaplined HER kids, not so much that she disagereed with the other kids punishment.
It goes both ways, and if I had been her I would have told off the arrogant father who presumed to tell her her own business.
My mom and dad had a way of dealing with that type of situation....they would tell my sister and me "Well, you aren't THEIR kids, you are ours...", and that would be the end of it.
posted
I was never grounded either... but then, my mother was super over-protective, so she wouldn't allow us to do a lot of things anyway.
I'm curious...if you were never grounded, what sort of discipline did your parents use?
My mom wasn't the best disciplinarian, but she was a single-mother, and I give single parents a lot of leeway in their parenting. She did her best, and we turned out alright. My brothers got a few lickin's when they did things really bad, like throwing rocks at cars, but I can't remember a time when I got hit. The guilt was always enough to keep me in line.
And I was never (in my mind) addressing how the other parents reacted/or didn't react. I was just trying to validate Tammy that her reaction was understandable.
RRR -- you make a good point too. I don't think I've ever had to ground my daughter, and she is a darn good kid. But then again, she is very hurt if she just knows that something she is doing has disappointed me, or hurt my feelings or expectations or the values our family holds. Some kids are so sensitive that they kind of self-police in that way.
quote:Not een colse to it, IMO. Just because I chose to teach my kids some other way than what you would have chosen to do it DOES NOT make it ANY of your business.
That siad, I would have probably done SOMETHING to my kids for that, and considered it part of my duty as a parent.
Aww, come on... it's not really fair to cut off all of my disclaimers when I made that statement. I knew it was an extreme statement.
I was saying that discipline is necessary--I don't care what TYPE of discipline. Your doing something else is still discipline.
I don't know these parents that Tammy is referring to--but I am making comments about them in the general sense, as if they were any parents behaving that way. I know it's sort of a shady line, but I think it's okay for me to offer my opinions in a definitive way in regards to general parenting--but NOT okay for me to open my mouth and say something to someone personally about the way that THEY are parenting. Does that make sense?
This is going to seem really superficial, because officially I hate reality TV, but darn if they don't suck you in...but anyway, when I watch those Nanny shows and see the parents giving in to their children's whining--I think that's a very BAD thing. I won't say abuse again (nyah), but it is NOT doing any favors for those kids.
quote:Xavier....I think her main point was that someone else had a problem with the way she disaplined HER kids, not so much that she disagereed with the other kids punishment.
But I never argued against Tammy's reaction to it. Really. I argued against those who judged the other parents. I'll even reread my posts to make sure.
Edit: On reread it seems like the posts about the safety issue could very well have been taken to be against Tammy's reaction, but I didn't mean it to be. My meaning there was that if safety was that there were far more valid concerns than it being unsafe, and that I disagree as to the extent which the kids were in danger.
quote:I'm curious...if you were never grounded, what sort of discipline did your parents use?
Telling me what I did was wrong, I guess. I don't really remember that clearly. I know I was never hit or grounded, though. I think a few times my parents threatened to take my TV away for not cleaning my room, though. I don't really remember doing anything that bad as a kid.
Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Yeah... that's my problem too... that I can't remember doing anything really bad as a kid.
I don't know... the more I think about it, the more I can see that yeah, some kids only need their parents to tell them certain things are wrong... RRR being an example of this...and, I think, me too.
So yeah... discipline should always be tailored to the kid--no one system should be applied, in my opinion, without thought to every kid out there. But still... even though the kids can understand that something is wrong... I still think that in 90% of the cases, they still need to suffer the consequences of their actions. Just knowing it's wrong isn't enough.
I might have learned my lesson simply from knowing something was wrong, but it wouldn't have hurt me to learn a few more lessons on how my actions can cause bad things to happen.
quote:I have no problem with him being punished for breaking a rule (and even more understanding if its for breaking the law),
I haven't read the full thread but this line jumped out at me.
The fact of the matter is that these kids went into ANOTHER PERSON'S yard, not their own yards, and went into ANOTHER PERSON'S pool, again, not their own, on a lark. That's trespassing and therefore these kids are breaking the law.
I don't know that I would punish my kids for pooljumping if it were in my own pool or the pool of the family of one of the friends involved. But I sure as <bleep> would come down and come down HARD for their blatant disregard for the neighbor's property and the implicit "keep out" that the fence represents.
No, I'm not a homeowner yet. If by some fortune I eventually become a homeowner and if by further grace I'm able to be financially sound enough to erect and maintain a pool, then I will discuss the possibility of shared time - and shared responsibilities - with the parents of the neighboring children. But until the owner of the pool gives explicit consent for the kids of the neighborhood to use his private property, then it's strictly forbidden.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I'm not sure I understand the reference to my quote there Goody. I actually posted that sentence is support for Tammy's punishment.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I didn;t mean to take that completely outr od context...notice I didn;t jump all over you, or make any rude remearks? I was saying that there is a difference between abuse and a real disagreement of what type of punishment is correct.
I was sure by your other comments that you weren't going overboard with it, and look at the rest of my post...I agree with you at, least in part...
I am just pointing out that there IS a line where it beno one elses busines, and that people have the right to determine what is and is not a big deal for their families.
There were people in our neighborhood that stuch their noses in EVERYONES business, claiming that it WAS their business because we all lived in teh same neighborhood. Not only were they usually wrong about what was going on, but eventually my parents told them off.
And they weren't the most permissive parents in teh world...and my sister and I were NOT wild kids.
quote:I don't know... the more I think about it, the more I can see that yeah, some kids only need their parents to tell them certain things are wrong... RRR being an example of this...and, I think, me too.
So yeah... discipline should always be tailored to the kid--no one system should be applied, in my opinion, without thought to every kid out there.
Yikes!
That is my whole point nicely stated by the person who by far had the most hostility to my posts.
The amount of understanding that has emerged in this thread in the last twenty minutes is truly amazing! Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:So yeah... discipline should always be tailored to the kid--no one system should be applied, in my opinion, without thought to every kid out there.
I agree with the sentiment, but if it were my pool, I'd want to know the punishment being handed out by the parents. And I would complain if I didn't feel it was adequate. This was not a victimless infraction, even if there was no permanent damage.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I didn't think you were jumping over me much... thus the "Aaw Come on" response..
I happen to think that my brother and his wife a tad too permissive with their son--but just a little bit. I don't mention this to them. It's not my business. But if we ever got together and had a general discussion about parenting, I wouldn't hold back my opinions--but I also would be sure not to make it sound like I was jumping on them. Especially because they're great parents--I am WELL aware that I can have all of the theories I want to on parenting, but when I'm actually a parent, following through and being consistent with my children is going to be nigh impossible. It's easy to SAY these things. So, I watch parents when I can, and I learn what I can... and I'll do my best when I finally do have children..
And I can only hope that when the day comes that they do something as stupid as pool jumping at the neighbor's pool, that I'll remember that I have the duty to discipline them for it--in whatever method is appropriate.
That is my whole point nicely stated by the person who by far had the most hostility to my posts.
The amount of understanding that has emerged in this thread in the last twenty minutes is truly amazing! [Smile]
I am often of the opinion that most debates occur because of improper communication.
But Dag made a good point, too. This was a serious infraction. I still have great skepticism in the value of the "stern talking-to." That method should be used sparingly and built on years of previous real discipline, whether it be spankings, groundings, or time-outs--or something else. Whatever. I think if all the kid ever gets is stern talking-to's, the words lose all meaning.
I'm sorry I seemed hostile to you--mostly, I didn't like your ideas. I don't like to think that debates are personal. Forgive me if I word things harshly... if I'm all timid, people just forget I'm here.
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I agree with you there katarain, but it IS easy to get too judgemental with things like that, so unless I am involved (as in this case if it had been my pool) I try to avoid any discussionof it unless asked directally.
If asked, I am honest though...
Xavier, the potential for danger if very present in pools. While you may not have had a problem ever, a lot of kids die in pools every year because of the "it's only a pool" attitue a lot of people have.
I don't think they were in immedate danger, but the potential is there one way or another, and it isn't a ever present danger like crossing the street.
I also think that part of acting out like that, which IS normal, is accepting the concequences of those actions if caught.
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thanks, KQ. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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