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Author Topic: So, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is pretty good
mr_porteiro_head
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Here's another Buffy question.

*S*P*O*I*L*E*R*S*

The character Darla (Dharla?) dies four times -- as a mortal, as a vampire, as a mortal again, and as a vampire again.

How and when did she die the second time? I assume that it was somewhere in the early seasons of Buffy, but I have no recollection of it.

While I'm at it, how and when did Drusilla die as a vampire? I assume it happened in season 2 of Angel, but again I can't remember it happening.

I assume that she must have died, since they never had her come back even though Juliet Landau kept being on the show in flashbacks up through the last few episodes of Angel.

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Katarain
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SPOILERS


Darla is in the first episode of Buffy. She's the one in the annoying school girl outfit who kills the boy in the opening scene. She's a darling of the master and tries to get Angel to turn evil. Instead, he kills her. I think they were in a warehouse or something. It was either kill her or let her kill Buffy.... or something like that. Anyway, Angel did it. With either a crossbow or a stake.

Yeah, my memory is great! [Smile] Anyway, she was a really annoying character, and they changed her when they started doing flashbacks and when they brought her back. She was way too lovey and meek around the master. Not very Darla-Like.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Yeah, I remember her character in Buffy, I just didn't remember how she died. That's because when she died in Buffy, she wasn't that important of a character.

But even when they brought her back in flashbacks, etc., Darla was still meek when dealing with The Master.

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katharina
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Xander is what my brother wants to call my nephew, whose full name is William Alexander. (To continue that trend, my kid will be named Julius Khan.)

My dad and grandparents call the kid Willy. *amused*

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Katarain
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She probably was still meek around the master to make her earlier behavior seem plausible. I still don't buy it. I don't see Darla being scared of anybody.
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katharina
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Just saw Phases last night. Oz is indeed darling. He's so laid back, which is perfect for Willow, who is basically a big ball of sweet anxiety.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I don't see her being scared of The Master, but being worshipful of him.
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Katarain
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*grin* Well, I can't say that I thought enough about this to be able to go past a few casual statements. [Smile] I've got no good reason not to think that your interpretation is the better one. [Smile]
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plaid
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Letsee, I liked season 1... REALLY got into it in season 2... and by the time I got to season 4 I stopped renting anything else until I was done with the whole series. [Smile]
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
Half the cast has weird names... Buffy, Willow, Zander (although that comes from Alexander), Cordelia, Oz, Angel, Anya... Much more fun than plain names like Randy or Joan. [Wink]

Well, Buffy is Elizabeth, Xander is Alexander, Oz is Daniel, Angel was Liam...
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Here's another Buffy question.

*S*P*O*I*L*E*R*S*

The character Darla (Dharla?) dies four times -- as a mortal, as a vampire, as a mortal again, and as a vampire again.

How and when did she die the second time? I assume that it was somewhere in the early seasons of Buffy, but I have no recollection of it.

While I'm at it, how and when did Drusilla die as a vampire? I assume it happened in season 2 of Angel, but again I can't remember it happening.

I assume that she must have died, since they never had her come back even though Juliet Landau kept being on the show in flashbacks up through the last few episodes of Angel.

Darla got pregnant by Angel. But when he came to term, she couldn't deliver him. In the one act of love she ever did as a vampire, she staked herself, and Connor was born when she dusted.

I think it was season 3, but I could be wrong.

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mr_porteiro_head
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SPOILERS!!!

That was the second time she died as a vampire.

The first time she died was as a mortal. She was already dying of syphilis when The Master came, killed her, and turned her into a vampire.

The second time she died (the one I was trying to figure out about), Angel staked her early on in the show Buffy.

The third time she died (after being brought back to life by Wolfram and Hart) she was killed by Drusilla (at the request of Wolfram and Hart) and truned into a vampire. Again.

The fourth time she died, she staked herself for the sake of her son. Who ended up being just as evil as she ever was, even though he was human and had a soul and all.

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Dagonee
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SPOLIER DISCUSSION

quote:
Who ended up being just as evil as she ever was, even though he was human and had a soul and all.
He did?
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Amanecer
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******SPOILERS*******
quote:
Buffy is Elizabeth
Hmmm, I don't remember that one. Do you remember which episode it came up in?
quote:

While I'm at it, how and when did Drusilla die as a vampire? I assume it happened in season 2 of Angel, but again I can't remember it happening.

I assume that she must have died, since they never had her come back even though Juliet Landau kept being on the show in flashbacks up through the last few episodes of Angel.

I don't think Drusilla did ever die as a vampire. But season 2 of Angel/ Season 5 of Buffy is the last time we see her not in flashbacks. She leaves LA after slaughtering people in Angel and then she leaves Sunnydale after Spike locks both Buffy and her up.
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
He did?
SPOILER DISCUSSION.

Well, not really. That was, I admit, hyperbole. He was no mass murderer.

He wanted to murder (and torture) less people than that.

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Katarain
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Buffy's real name IS Buffy.

Didn't she tell someone her name and they replied with "No, really?" and she gave them a "look."

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Dagonee
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OK - I thought I had missed a major story arc somewhere.
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xnera
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Maybe Elizabeth is her middle name? I'm pretty sure we heard her middle name at least one. But yes, her name really is Buffy.

I wish UBB boards had spoiler font. It'd make it soooo much easier to talk about things like this without worrying about accidentally spoiling someone.

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The Pixiest
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Anne is her middle name. Buffy Anne Summers.
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xnera
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*thwaps self* I should have known that. I feel stupid now. In my defense, I started work at 6:30 this morning so I'm rather braindead at the moment.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I was really pleased to finally figure out

SPOILERS!!!

who the guardian of the "Deeper Well" was in the last season of Angel. I knew him as Paul Mua'Dib in the SciFi version of Dune.

I did the same thing with the pompous ass in the episode Shindig of Firefly -- it took me forever to figure out that he was Duncan Idaho.

I'm hoping to have somebody else from Dune show up in Serenity. I'd love to see The Baron. Or Jessica (who it took me forever to figure out where I knew her from).

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
Anne is her middle name. Buffy Anne Summers.

Wasn't Anne just the false name that she used as a waitress when she ran away from home at the end of the 2nd season?
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Speed
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MPH: IMDB is a valuable resource. [Wink]
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mr_porteiro_head
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I get so much more satisfaction when I am able to figure it out without resorting to IMDB.

But if I can't do it on my own, I'll use IMDB.

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The Pixiest
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MPH: "Anne" was her name in the first episode of season 3 when she was waitressing, yes. However it wasn't a fake name. When asked "Why Anne?" She responded "it's my middle name"

Pix

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mr_porteiro_head
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Looky!

http://www.homestead.com/gilliansspikelair/files/headstone.jpg

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
SPOILERS!!!

The fourth time she died, she staked herself for the sake of her son. Who ended up being just as evil as she ever was, even though he was human and had a soul and all.

I don't think Connor was evil. His actions were, but he himself was seriously damaged. In the Angel finale, you get to see him more as he would have been with a better history.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Being damaged doesn't keep you from being evil.

And he was.

He was a torturer and a murderer.

But then, Wesley was evil too. He was just evil on the side of the good guys.

But yes, it is true that if things were different and Connor were a different person, he would be a different person.

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El JT de Spang
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NEW INFO STARTS HERE:

So, the first two seasons of Buffy are on hulu.com (my favorite website of the last 6 months). I finished Burn Notice and decided to check it out.

I have to say that, after finishing the first two seasons, I really don't like it all that much. I mean, it's not bad. I did watch every episode. But mainly because I <3 Joss and I kept waiting for it to get good. Other than the last two eps of season 2, I vastly preferred the Kristy Swanson movie-Buffy to the SMG TV-Buffy. Sacrilege, I know!

But so far it's been mostly 'meh'. Does it get better? Does it get really good, like life-changingly so?

It's definitely no Firefly thus far.

------------------

One way in which the show is definitely better than the movie is Angel. Now that's a genius character.

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imogen
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Yes, I think Buffy doesn't get really good till season 3-4, and then seasons 5, 6 & 7 (really, when Spike features more - I love the Buffy Spike dynamic) are my favourites. I like re-watching seasons 1 and 2 now, but I started from season 3 and I think that's what got me hooked.

Seasons 1 & 2 are a bit melodramatic, bit high-school and a bit whiny sometimes. I think.

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Shanna
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Totally glad someone bumped this thread.

I finished season 7 last week. I bought the Chosen Collection during the sale on Amazon so I pretty much went through the entire series in about alittle over a month. Much sleep was lost and I'm sort of in Buffy withdrawls.

The withdrawls should have been worse but since seasons 6 and 7 really didn't hold my attention and I had to force myself to finish, I sort of weaned myself of it in a way.

I cried like crazy during the series finale for one very justifiable reason and also because it was just so very bad. I wanted to go back and watch the first three seasons again just to remind myself why I watched this show. Thank goodness for James as Spike or I might not have stuck it out.

I think one of my big issues with the last two seasons is that I lost alot of sympathy for the major leaders who are supposed to be the anchor for the show. Most of them behaved in ways that I found difficult to forgive and I really just stopped caring about them in favor of some of the more promising secondary cast members.

JT, is there anything you don't like about the show in particular. I think the humor and the strength of the character writing and casting make Firefly and Buffy very similar. Is it the "creature of the week" style because that does lessen up majorly (even though I was fond of it and the ways Joss could sort of play around with the "after school specials" type issues.)

I will probably be started Angel soon but I'm not too excited. I remember watching it when it first aired but never got past the first season. I am SUPER THRILLED to see Cordelia again but Angel always sort of bugged me on his own. With Buffy he was great, but separate I just didn't care about him much.

I would say it has some AMAZING moments of sheer brilliance: Hush, Once More with Feeling, The Body, etc. If you don't cry like a baby during "The Body" then you just don't have a soul.

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Mucus
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El JT de Spang: I only really watched Buffy for a couple seasons. However, Angel as a show really connected with me in a way that Buffy didn't and thus I own the latter while only having a passing familiarity with the former.

quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Being damaged doesn't keep you from being evil.

And he was.

He was a torturer and a murderer.

But then, Wesley was evil too. He was just evil on the side of the good guys.
...

I don't know if the good/evil classification scheme is really one thats all that applicable to the world of Angel. The show spends quite a bit of its time presenting characters that are normally strictly good or bad in an ambiguous light. Thats why you have demons co-existing with humans, decidedly non-heroic vampire hunters, and so forth.

Indeed, people with rather deterministic moral systems such as Kate, Gunn's former crew, and Lorne's people in Pylia are presented rather unsympathetically.

In fact, if Wesley is guilty of being evil on the side of the good guys, arguably both of Angel and Lorne would fit the same category by the end of the last episode. (Not to mention Spike or Illyria who are unabashedly so)

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Pegasus
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Very recently I decided to give Buffy a try, and I have burned right through the first 2 season's like there was no tomorrow! I thought season 2 was great, and I'm glad there are 5 more to go, and Angel as well...
(It helps that the early season's are like $15 at walmart right now)

At first it was kinda corny, but it got better, or maybe started to grow on me.

I was already a rabid Firefly fan, but hadn't tasted Joss' earlier flavors.

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breyerchic04
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My Walmart doesn't have any Buffy but season 1, ick.


I really don't like the first season, the second has good and bad moments. Three and four are fun, but my favorites are five and six. Spike! He's not quite your type, JT, but he's interesting and pretty.


Oh and this is in response to something three years ago but, Liam wasn't Angel's real name, it was William.

[ January 28, 2009, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: breyerchic04 ]

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Itsame
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No, Angel's name was Liam. Spike's name was William.
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Katarain
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I'm pretty sure it is Liam, which is an Irish form of William.
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breyerchic04
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I remember them saying somewhere that it was William. I know he was called Liam, but that's the same as Alexander being called Xander.
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Elmer's Glue
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Even if you were right, how would they have been wrong?
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EmpSquared
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Geez, people. Go to sleep. [Wink]
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Lisa
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They never say that Angel's name is William. Just Liam. Though I did think it was interesting that Angel and Spike basically had the same name.

My guess, btw, is that Liam's last name was Angelus.

Edit: But then again, I figured Faith's last name would turn out to be Winters, so what do I know?

[ January 28, 2009, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Lisa ]

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katharina
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I suspect the early years of Buffy are more poignant the nearer you are to high school. If you can barely remember high school and most of those memories are good, then the metaphor isn't really working.

My favorite season of Buffy is the fifth, with a few episodes from the other seasons (Fool for Love, Hush, Once More With Feeling) right up there.

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Christine
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I watched all of Buffy about half a year ago. The first season is not good. The villain is a joke and they don't take themselves seriously. In the first episode, their (Willow and Zander's) best friend dies and they don't seem to care that much. The whole thing with the little boy was just plain stupid. The best part of season 2 was when Spike came in and killed him, thus proclaiming to the world (IMO), that the writers had figured out that nobody liked that bad guy and that we all thought it was pretty much a joke.

Not that season 2 was awesome or anything. Season 3 was probably the best. Season 5 was almost good, but I think they missed a bit of potential.

I really thought the show should haev ended with season 5.

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katharina
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The season three villian was definitely the best.

I like season six very much, but I think it belongs to a different show. A sadder, harder, riskier, despairing, not-as-consistent show.

"If high school is hell, then growing up is the ninth circle and there is no end." is the best description I've heard of season six.

Season seven completely blows. I blame Firefly. I love Firefly, but seeing what happened to Buffy when Joss stopped caring, I wish he'd waited a couple years to start it.

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Christine
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Spoiler Warning...

Season 7 seemed to be their way of saying to die-hard fans who brought it back after Buffy DIED in season 5 that THIS IS IT!!

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katharina
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If the message was "If it stays around, it will suck because Joss doesn't care anymore.", then: message recieved. [Razz]
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The White Whale
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
Totally glad someone bumped this thread.

I finished season 7 last week. I bought the Chosen Collection during the sale on Amazon so I pretty much went through the entire series in about alittle over a month.

. . .

I will probably be started Angel soon but I'm not too excited.

I also just recently finished Buffy (last month) and bought it on the Amazon sale, and have just finished the first season of Angel (also purchased during one of those awesome Amazon sales).

Angel has been alright so far. The characters (Cordellia, Angel, Wesley) are more developed and more interesting, but not nearly as interesting as Buffy/Willow/Giles/Spike etc. I'm hoping it gets better in the next seaoson, but don't have really high hopes.

However, there have been some pretty good moments (at least ones that I enjoyed watching) in the first season of Angel. Now, given, they were the episodes in which appearances were made by Buffy, Oz, Spike, and Faith.

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katharina
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I have to admit I don't really like Angel the Series. I own the first couple of seasons and plowed through them, but I didn't finish and I have never wanted to rewatch any of them.
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maui babe
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*******POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD*******

I watched Angel first, and loved it. I own all 5 seasons and re-watch favorite episodes/story arcs regularly. I started watching BTVS to learn more about Angel's backstory, but stopped watching after the 2nd season because of all the teen angst and "who's kissing whom this week". Also, Sarah Michelle Gellar drove me crazy at first. One of my favorite scenes in the 1st season of Angel is when Angel tells her off after the incident with Faith. I'd also heard that the 4th season was really weird with the whole Army group story line.

I finished watching seasons 3-7 because my daughter wanted to. I'm glad I did. Once the "Scoobies" got out of high school, I enjoyed the show a LOT more. Except for Dawn. I never liked Dawn. Not just her supernatural origins, but she never rang true to me as a teenaged girl.

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Christine:
The whole thing with the little boy was just plain stupid. The best part of season 2 was when Spike came in and killed him, thus proclaiming to the world (IMO), that the writers had figured out that nobody liked that bad guy and that we all thought it was pretty much a joke.


Well, not quite. It was more the actor playing the Anointed One was starting to grow again, thus could not convincingly portray an ageless being.

Not that I minded! Spike and Dru were wonderful.

Angel becoming Angelus...that I had problems with, even though he was a great villain. It my first acquaintances with Joss' aversion to his characters having happy, fulfilling relationships. [Smile]

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kwsni
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Kat, I think there are a couple decent episodes in Season 7. Despite annoying firefly crossover, stupid teenage artist girl, and lack of Xander, I really like Conversations with Dead People. The last five minutes or so of Beneath You are good. I like Sleeper, too. But after the potentials and Caleb show up, it sucks.

Ni!

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