quote: I don't want to start taking pills. It makes me dependent upon them to maintain a certain level of optimistic consciousness. If there is a problem, it needs be solved, not suppressed chemically.
What makes you think that you will become dependent, or that antidepressants will just suppress your problems? If you do have a chemical imbalance in your brain that won't go away otherwise, what then?
I agree with everyone who has said to go out and do something. Try a new sport, or activity. You mentioned that you're not really doing Aikido anymore because your teacher isn't around. Well, go out and find another one, even if it's not the same branch of Aikido. Or pick up another martial art. Draw, or write, or go for walks, or learn to play an instrument. Gifted people do sometimes have a tendency to get bored, so pick up a new activity that you're not good at. That way, you'll be able to work toward something.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Big Brothers? I don't really know if it counts but I spend a lot of time with a 10 year old kid from my synagogue during Saturdays. He's the son of one of those in charge of the synagogue.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Currently, I'm taking Tante's advice. Good night everybody, and thanks for all the advice. I was parallel to suicidal that night, and the following morning, at school, my good friend was just as mournful (it was his birthday) because his great aunt died the day before.
Ain't it lovely? He's also the son of our English teacher, so the whole lesson went about queerly. I feel bad for whinging...
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Jonathan, it's another day, and I'm still thinking about you. How are you doing? What are your plans? The adolescent angst is difficult -- I had a rough case of it myself for a while -- but you are going to have to learn coping mechanisms.
posted
Hello Hatrackers, I'm pretty new here ... greatly impressed and all. I didn't plan on posting until I got a bit more acclamated, but Jonathan Howard ... I know exactly how you feel. Or at least from your description of it. I'm also a teenager, have a degree of intelligence, have a semblance of popularity and constantly find myself bored, frustrated, and otherwise sick of everything. The pointlessness of everything. I don't really have much advice. I still struggle with it quite often. But you're not alone in your feelings.
And if I may, I would recommend travelling. By yourself. Sort of going along with the whole "change" thing. Maybe you're not in a posistion to travel anywhere far. It doesn't matter. Just go somewhere. And don't take anything that links you to your current pointless life. Last time it got really bad for me I got my kayak and took a 100 mile trip down a river. Almost got in a fight with a 13-foot alligator (he got skerred ) and missed a bunch of school and church, but then at the point I was at, I wasn't planning on going to school or church anyways. Anyways, it helped me. I don't know why, I don't know how, but I came back ready to face the world. So I guess thats my bit of advice. Though now I do feel I should say, if you happen to meet up with a 13 foot alligator, don't fight it ... that is pointless. I hope everything works out for you. If you need a fellow bemoaner of the pointlessness of life, feel free to contact me.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think you need to find your Mode. Everyone has a mode of release, something they use to vent and get back to zero. For some people it is sports, for some it is travel, or music, or school, literature, anything. For a long time, mine was SI, which I don't recommend in the slightest, but now it is writing, which calms me down, cools me off, and gets my mind working in productive healthy ways.
More specifically my advice would be to try everything again. Everyone on here has given great suggestions, try them all, and if none of them work, come back for more. You won't know your Mode until you find it, and you can't find it until you try everything. That should be all the motivation you need.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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It's now just after Sabbath, and it's getting a little better. I'm missing school tomorrow (there's a trip to reconstruct the settlers' farms and hothouses etc. - my father is sternly and politically opposed to me going there, though I'd be keen to help), and this Saturday was actually very pleasant.
If any of you remember the little thesis I wrote, I can only say that two of the most important people I know (and probably the most intelligent to, they're smarter than you lot, I reckon) very much wanted to read it - so I sent it to them. A third read it this Friday and was impressed by it, so at least that was something productive.
I had a nice time at the synagogue, and another interesting thing happened: registration to it [the synagogue] next year will be this Wednesday, and I was told to come a while before the official time of registering starts. The synagogue wants to ensure I have a safe seat that isn't bein grabbed beforehand. They're not supposed to be biased and help certain people get seats, but I am getting one for certain.
So I realised that in the past 6 months I prayed there (and not consistently) I have gained a lot of power in the community, and poise.
I finally came to realise this is a trait that I seem to have. On my Bar-Mitzva the person I chose to make the dedication of the present to me stated that in a very short time I managed to gain a lot of poise, until that climactic day. I'm also well-poised in my current congregation, in school, here, and most importantly - in the gifted school. I was asked to make a speech at the end of last year, unanimously, on the spot.
I've got to use that trait to get back on track. I've read some books, I've watched some sport, I'm feeling good. I've cleared my mind, I've played with friends, I've understood: it's a matter of my will to get back and start doing something useful - maybe it's because I've listened to less music lately?
So it's very simple: stick a Bach disc in to the stereo system, and play it.
Done.
Now it's time that'll tell.
And thanks a million to you all, particularly Tresopax, Tom, Esther, Amy, Dr Strangelove and Lyrhawn.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I think you need to find your Mode. Everyone has a mode of release, something they use to vent and get back to zero ... For a long time, mine was SI...
I'm glad you were able to find another form of release, and I hope JH is well on his way to one as well.
I second the good Dr.'s advice, sort of -- going somewhere helps me a lot, even if it's just around the block a bunch of times. It's the sensation of movement as much as distance traveled that makes a good metaphor to cling to for putting things behind you.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Morning, all, I'm curretly living for the sake of living. I'm still a little downcast, though.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: I don't want to start taking pills. It makes me dependent upon them to maintain a certain level of optimistic consciousness. If there is a problem, it needs be solved, not suppressed chemically.
Don't knock pills. If they made one to cure excessive run-on sentences like in your first post, you could use a maximum dose.
Get some physically activity, of any kind. Don't use the cricket excuse, please.
You're a very bright kid, Jonny. Many bright kids get bored at your age. I did, my brother did, it's very common. Either find something new, in school or out, to focus your attention on, or become a real expert on something you already have interests in.
It's quite possible to support yourself without a college degree, or while you're planning to get one. Billions do.
Lastly, depression and malaise are not rational...don't expect to beat it with purely rational means. Buck up, laddy, I hope you feel better! Email if you want. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I suppose it's a little late for this, since you seem to be feeling better, but here's my two cents anyway: Everyone's right about your needing to get out there and do something new; but if you're bored and depressed, the best thing you can possibly do is to do something for someone else. Find somewhere you can volunteer--working with underprivileged children is mighty rewarding, for instance--and spend some time with people less fortunate than you.
posted
I would certainly recommend some kind of therapy.
Considering that you aren't suicidal, anti-depressants don't seem necessary. If anything you'll feel terrible the first few weeks you're on them and its a high risk that the medication could cause you to develop suicidal feelings.
I was in a similar state of mind last year. I agree that blandness and boredom can be the greatest curse of all. I became inactive physically, mentally, spiritually. I felt like I was in a hole that I could never climb out of so I instead focused on never digging it any deeper.
After a year of therapy and a summer of personal reflection, I've come to see how my negative thought processess were impeding on my life. I never celebrated my sucesses but obsessed over my failure. I was afraid of being unloved without seeing that I lacked any kind of self-esteem.
In therapy, I had a qualified specialist who was able to recognize negative patterns in my thoughts and speech that I had never noticed before. Now that I'm able to see these negative influences myself, I can work on changing them.
In the last month especially, my entire perspective has changed. The bland, cold, bored person I was before is gone. I exercise more, getter better sleep, eat better, make more friends, allow myself to feel proud and confident, and my creativity is blossoming again after a year of not writing.
If you're in a stagnant place, its gonna take someone else to get the first waves of change going. Go find someone who'll listen to you and make suggestions. If the first therapist doesn't work, find another until you're comfortable.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
It was getting a little crowded in Heaven, so God decided to change the admittance policy. The new law was that, in order to get into Heaven, you had to have a really bad day the day you died. The policy would go into effect at noon the following day.
So the next day at 12:01 the first person came to the gates of Heaven. The angel at the gate, remembering about the new law, promptly asked the man, "Before I can let you in, I need you to tell me about he day you died."
"No problem.", said the man. "Well, for some time now, I've thought my wife was having an affair. I believed that each day on her lunch hour, she'd bring her lover home to our 25th floor apartment and have sex with him. So today I was going to come home and catch them. Well, I got there and busted in and immediately began searching for this guy. My wife was half naked and yelling at me as I searched the entire apartment. But, darn it, I couldn't find him! Just as I was about to give up, I happened to glance out onto the balcony and noticed that there was a man hanging off the edge by his fingertips! The nerve of that guy to think he could hide from me! Well I ran out there and promptly stomped on his fingers until he fell to the ground. But, wouldn't you know it, he landed in some bushes that broke his fall, and he didn't die. This ticked me off even more so in a rage I went back inside to get the first thing I could get my hands on to throw at him. And oddly enough,the first thing I could grab was the refrigerator. I unplugged it, pushed it out onto the balcony and heaved it over the side. It plummeted 25 stories and crushed him! The excitement of the moment was so great that right after that I had a heart attack and died almost instantly."
The angel sat back and thought for a moment. Technically, the guy did have a bad day, and it WAS a crime of passion, so he announced, "OK, sir. Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven.", and let him in.
A few seconds later the next guy came up. "OK. Here's the rule. Before I can let you in, I need to hear about the day you died." "Sure thing.", the man replied. "But you're not gonna believe this. I was out on the balcony of my 26th floor apartment doing my daily excersises when I got a little carried away and accidentally fell over the side! Luckily however, I was able to catch myself by my fingertips on the balcony directly beneath mine. When all of a sudden this crazy man comes running out of his apartment and starts cussing and stomping on my fingers! Well of course I fell. I hit some trees and bushes on the way down which broke my fall so didn't die right away. As I'm laying there face up on the ground, unable to move and in excruciating pain, I see the man push his refrigerator, of all things, over the ledge and it falls directly on top of me and kills me!"
The angel is quietly laughing to himself as the man finishes his story. "I could get used to this new policy.", he thinks to himself. "Very well.", the angel announces. "Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven", and he lets the man enter.
A few seconds later the third man in line comes up to the gate. "Tell me about the day you died.", said the angel. "OK. Picture this.", says the man. "I'm naked inside a refrigerator..."
Posts: 38 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think you're getting great advice in this thread, Jonathan.
I have to say that this quote is not accurate medical information, though. Not that I think you need medications, because I don't think you do.
quote:Considering that you aren't suicidal, anti-depressants don't seem necessary. If anything you'll feel terrible the first few weeks you're on them and its a high risk that the medication could cause you to develop suicidal feelings.
posted
Studies have shown that some popular anti-depressants can cause patients to develop suicidal thoughts. My physician said it was a matter of the medication working well enough to get a patient active where before they might have been too depressed to take any suicidal action.
I was on anti-depressants for awhile for anxiety and after a few weeks, I took myself off them. The medication made me jittery, I wasn't able to sleep, my stomach couldn't keep food down, I would get dizzy and my panic attacks actually increased. At a time when I was struggling with a difficult semester of college, the meds tuned me out to the world. Experts told me that the meds would take awhile to balance in my system but for me, the side-effects were too much for what had only a slim chance of helping me.
Either way, people on medication should have a therapist/counselor monitoring their behavior and thoughts because these medications are affecting the brain. If that's the case, it seems more valuable to try therapy alone at first before turning to dangerous and unpleasant medications.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Getting far, far worse now for other issues. I'm basically devastated; I'm not killing myself yet, though.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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You're jumping to a lot of conclusions for everyone else, Shanna, just because your experience wasn't good. Luckily, everyone isn't just like you. The risks are much lower than you've mentioned, and the goal of finding the right drug is to find one WITHOUT unpleasant side effects. Assuming a drug is needed.
Exactly! I didn't need medication and I regret being convinced to try them so early in my treatment. I don't think anti-depressants are bad because I've seen the positive effects they had on some people. I've also seen alot of people who were puts on meds by prescription-happy parents and doctors. Anti-depressants change the chemical makeup of the brain. Its not a matter that should be taken lightly and I warn against any doctor who doesn't suggest alternative methods first. Medication should be a last resort.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
If anti depressents seem to not be helping you should talk to a doctor or someone abnout either trying welbutrin or the possibility of you being bipolar.
I feel the same way about not wanting to commit suicide, but just being bored and apathetic about life. Nothing seems to spark my interest enough
I started seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist last may, and trust me, if you are not doing that, try to, and don't just try one. Try as many as it takes to find one who you LIKE as a person. Often I've found it hard to talk to my peers about these problems because unless you have actually gone through the same things, its hard to really be able to console you much, or be very understanding. They often try, but with only partial success.
Stick in there bud. I haven't found that thing that is the spark of my life yet, but now I think its out there somewhere.
Also, no most medications don't leaving last chemical changes to the brain, although if they mad you more depressed as they can with bi-polar people, that can leave me emotional scars. Whcih is why from my experience it is neccesary to get a solid diagnosis of your problem.
Posts: 42 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Getting far, far worse now for other issues. I'm basically devastated; I'm not killing myself yet, though.
I'm sorry that you are in such a funk. And I'm concerned that it is deepening. You need to either formulate a plan for how you are going to deal with this, or if you are unable to, place yourself in the hands of someone who will.
I care, Jon, I really do, and you have me very concerned for you. This will sound like a complete "Duh" statement, but, you would be much happier if you weren't so depressed. It is not good to be depressed. It is not artsy or deep or romantic or profound. It is not the mark of genius or understanding or sensitivity. It is a correctable, serious medical condition. You deserve treatment.
While the attention that you get from posting this thread on Hatrack may be comforting, in the end, I doubt it will be all that helpful. Unless you take some of the good advice given here and find help.
posted
I don't know if the deep funk is connected, but it might have something to do with the other. Let's just say that it's something I am completely responsible for bringing on myself, and I feel guilty for it. I've been working on my depression, and I started getting better, until I got this landed over my head, at top priority.
Now, I hope to get over this, though it might tak months until it's compltely over, if it ever will be. And that's no thing that mdical stuff or psychologists can change. And if they can, it oughtn't be so.
Thank you for caring, Tante; I know that ketchupqueen at a time (far before your time here) was more perceptive about me - and only through what I write - than my parents were. They, theoretically, know me much better. You are no less perceptive about my behaviour.
For now, it's a matter of tim, it includes factors I haven't yet nailed down specifically, and until I do no therapist will help. Personally, I don't think that they're worth the money - I doubt they can do that much change that justifies the price. Even if they can, it's all obscure and uncertain.
The school councellors are for school-related topics. As long as the topic doesn't have any real effect upon your studies or your social situation, they can't really do much. They are only these nice guys that say "hi" to you in the hall and that's basically it.
Right now, it's again time that is the critical factor. But you have no idea how much you all mean to me. Heck, I came here with the problem before I even knew there was one for certain.
All emotion is valid, there is plenty of stuff to feel legitimately angry, or sad, or depressed about. And all emotions are deeply associative with hormones.
The relationship between hormones and emotions and external worldy triggers is, of course, extremely complex. There is a temptation to understand that relationship as a causal one but I would urge you to think of it historically. Sometimes you get an adrenaline rush when someone says "BOO", sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get an adrenaline rush just anticipating that someone might say "Boo". Even as we learn how hormones work it doesn't necessarily answer why.
Having said all that, young man, I have to inform you that you are awash in hormones of every description right now. Some might be triggered by a mini-skirt, some just figure it is time. Part of what all this flood is doing is changing your brain itself, your last big growth spurt. It's quite amazing that you are sane at all.
Women experience these emotional floods on a regular basis and men do as well though not as significantly. We wake to essentially the same world everyday but sometimes we are angry at it, sometimes we love it to tears. Same world, different emtional reaction.
The reason sport is such a recurring remedy suggested for your ails is that adrenaline is a very powerful hormone and it can wash away the others. It is good advise.
But for a young man of your obvious intellect, I recommend gaining an academic understanding of the physiological changes you are undergoing. Intellect can master, at least to some extent, your emotional brain. Even if it is only to say to yourself, hmmm, I seem to be awash in depressing hormones right now, perhaps some adrenaline is in order.
None of this takes away from the valid intellectual thoughts that associate with emotions. Some stuff is depressing. But it is easy to get into a vicious biofeedback loop where you become addicted to the hormone. People aren't addicted to cocaine, they are addicted to the dopamine rush that cocaine causes. Adrenaline junkies are much more socially acceptable but still trapped.
The hormones will subside. Your intellect will prevail. Just relax. Be happy.
Posts: 675 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Thank you, orlox. I've never really thought it had too much to do with me being a teenager. According to my father's statement (and he teaches kids my age), I am not an average teenager in that I am not that affected by mood-swings to an uncontrollable state, not so narrow-minded and not obsessed with my hormones.
Sanity? I don't know. I don't know how sane I am, but being a teenager has to have at least something to do with it. I only became a little insane at teen age.
Being happy is the one thing I cannot ever take as guaranteed. One of the problems is that happiness is also addictive, and one can just slob-about until 18, not ever looking around. I could do that. What stops me is what I hope is vigilance, maybe too much of it and maybe that's what caused blandness. My main worry now is that I've acted like an insensitive, foolish, imbecilic, bastardly, wreched, damned idiot.
Also, regarding Tante's last post, my current state is my poorest in terms of my artistic form, profundity and any other deep romantic chasm.
EDIT: I'm currently having more emotional strain than I ever remember. The last time anything ever compared to this was last Hanukkah, if any of you remember. This time, I've inflicted upon myself som serious emotional damage. I actually want to become a vegetable.
But my stress and emotions are pathetically mild compared to others'. So mild, in fact, that I feel guilty of receiving any sympathy. I mean it.
[ September 14, 2005, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Just wanted to point out that therapy may help you nail down these "uncertain factors." If you don't know why you're in a funk, there's a good chance that your mind is deluding itself. Recognizing the source of your depression is the hardest part. Once you identify the reasons, it's mucher easier to heal. I wouldn't suggest taking too much trying to identify the problem for yourself. Don't waste time trying to fix an issue/problem that isn't the real cause of your emotional state.
There's a reason that the number one piece of advice for depressed persons is to seek help IMMEDIATELY. It can get tons worse if you don't act to change it.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
They don't know me, and even if I spend hours upon hours with them daily, they still wouldn't get to know me. I have a personality which - I am very proud to say - revolves around more than one topic. In fact, it revolves around enough isues that the connections between them are subtlr than a therapist could get.
I know myself better than anyone else, even if I'm a teenager. So why would I want to pay someone who can't possibly really dig in deep and tell me what's wrong with me? If I'm sick and an MD examines me I can trust him/her, because he/she knows my body better than me. But a therapist? All they ever gave me was morale. A tap on the shoulder from a friend today, saying "it'll be alright mate, I was very depressed a few months ago" did more than a smile from a therapist.
I'm not ranting against the profession, I'm just saying that since it's mostly a staistical analysis of many people that they try to apply as a general rule - therefore never quite managing to get it right.
Sure, I need to deal with the problem. But who ver said it's one? Whenever a problem arose, I could handle it or talk to my parents or friends and handling it through there. But these problems that I can't solve are problems of more sophisticated magnitude. And that is why I'm reluctant to go to a therapist until I know what's the problem. I doubt that they can find it, and I'm not blaming them: it's just that a personality is far too complex to analyse in a few sessions.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I'm just saying, if you know yourself so well...why are you having these problems? If you're the perfect unbiased judge of you, it shouldn't be hard to point out the problems and fix them.
And all people are complex.
I hope you identify the source of you funk and I wish you luck.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
All people are complex, all people who have a problem can usually solve it assuming they've got self-control, and all people who can't or have a big, tangled problem who go to therapists spend a lot of money and many times barely get any better.
I'm having these problems because everyone has problems, and sometimes maybe a bunch of them combine or hit at the same time. I don't know the exact source, but who says that someone who can't know me has a personality could locate my problem? I sure couldn't locate his/hers.
But thanks, anyway. Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:For now, it's a matter of tim, it includes factors I haven't yet nailed down specifically, and until I do no therapist will help.
and
quote:I know myself better than anyone else, even if I'm a teenager. So why would I want to pay someone who can't possibly really dig in deep and tell me what's wrong with me?
I think you're misunderstanding what a therapist's function is. A good therapist doesn't tell you what's wrong with yourself. Instead, they listen to what you have to say, and then ask you leading questions or share their own experiences to help you figure out what's going on. The best therapist I had merely listened to me and repeated back what I said, but in different words; this helped me to clarify what my issues were and what I still needed to work on.
quote:I know myself better than anyone else
And I know myself better than anyone else. In fact, my therapist thinks this is one of my strengths, and is impressed with how much work I've done towards understanding myself. That doesn't mean I don't find benefit from therapy. I do. Because sometimes I'm not even aware that I'm blocking myself until I get into session every week and start talking.
I've been reading this thread for a while, and I'm feeling a lot of resistence from you. Why are you resisting so much? What do you need from us? And I ask that honestly and compassionately. We're trying to help, but it feels like we're not saying the right things or you're not willing to listen. If it's the former, then can you maybe tell us what you need from us? If it's the latter, then I urge you to be more open. Don't dismiss our ideas out of hand. There's been a lot of good suggestions on this thread, and many of them could be very helpful. Yes, only you know what's right for you, but sometimes you may not realise that something is right for you until you give it a try or are exposed to it.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Jonny, you don't need to become a vegetable. Just because others are suffering doesn't mean that you can't as well, or that you "shouldn't," or anything like that. You're human too, and shouldn't cut yourself off from feeling normal human emotion.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
xnera said what I was going to - my experience with a therapist was very positive and you may be thinking it's supposed to be something other than it is.
Walking into a therapists' office (or worse, a psychiatrists office!) is one of the scariest things a person can do. But most of that fear is the unknown factor, or the fear that the mere act of going to one makes you something, or labels you. In other words, "If I go to a therapist or a psychiatrist it means I'm crazy."
Not it doesn't - it means you need help with a condition that they are trained to treat.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) and missed a bunch of school and church, but then at the point I was at, I wasn't planning on going to school or church anyways. Anyways, it helped me. I don't know why, I don't know how, but I came back ready to face the world. So I guess thats my bit of advice. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I hope everything works out for you. If you need a fellow bemoaner of the pointlessness of life, feel free to contact me.
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![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
