posted
Nope. Teeing off on people is something we should do well. Of all people, you, as an Oscar Wilde appreciator, should respect that.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I only like Oscar Wilde because of man/man action.
Seriously, though, i don't want to be evil to people. I don't see the point in it. I don't understand the joy in causing pain as a way of making others small and lifting myself up.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Olivet,
Fair enough.
Irami, I could hug you for that. Drop me a line if you're ever in town. I figure I owe you a dinner at least, for the unpleasantness a few years ago. If you like.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:I wonder why everyone gets the impression that Jon Boy goes around picking apart people's grammar.
No, that's me.
quote:I hate that everyone assumes "Grammar Nazi" means Jon Boy, though.
That actually is his fault. He does have that SN . . .
I am resisting sharing any flagrant examples of spelling/usage (mostly because I find Davidson's Law to be all too true in this thread). But I do notice that I do tend to judge people -- to some small degree -- by whether they proof their posts. Not chat or a quick email: those are too quick, and typos just sneak in. Not necessarily even the average forum post. But long essay-style posts, if they have many misspellings and/or typos, I do notice.
And with dating site profiles, while it doesn't mean I will write someone off, it is a mark against them. Not that they can't spell; that they didn't bother to use a spell-check on something that is meant to be the way they are presenting themselves. Look, my dad cannot spell to save his life, and he is one of the most intelligent people I know (in addition to many other wonderful character traits). But he does know how to use a spell-check.
Does caring about these things make me small? Maybe, and it is something I am trying to pay less attention to (at least in other people's writing). But neither am I in favor of spelling anarchy. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't need dinner, but see if there isn't some sort of school music program for the boys. And while you are at it, finish one of your books.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Your husband volunteered. I took my shots at grammar Nazies. He said it was his profession. I said that's fine. He said he didn't appreciate me calling his profession small. I said his profession is small, but it's not a big deal; rather, you are a big deal. He called me hilarious, and I do appreciate that.
A couple of points:
1. Calling someone's profession small IS a big deal. If you can't see how demeaning that is, then you need to take a few courses in empathy. 2. I didn't call YOU hilarious.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Catch y'all tomorrow (which I declare an unnofficial Grammarless Day . It'll be like Talk Like a Pirate Day, only wiith lots of semicolons thrown arourn willy-nilly).
posted
Ooh, hey. I posted before realizing the thread had turned Unfunny. :-\
-o-
I don't think grammar and spelling and such are unimportant. I also don't think they should be the bases for judgments of people in their entirety. I appreciate the fable the way Olivet presented it; I do not, however, agree with some of the more strident posts in that direction.
quote: I read a LOT of his posts and spend a LOT of time with him in person, and the only time he does it is when someone claims to be an expert on language or points out someone else's flaws--and has errors in their own condescending post.
I don't think Jon Boy is ever unkind, but if you're saying the only reason Jon Boy ever corrects anyone else's grammar is when that person is being a condescending jerk, I will actually be a little bit hurt by that. I always thought he also did it when he liked someone and respected his or her skills in that area enough to know he or she they could take a bit of friendly ribbing. :-\
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Okay, that too. He does it to be funny more often than not, and only with people he knows will respond well to it.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
By the way, I didn't mean to imply that I'm perfect in the grammar department. I make a lot of mistakes. Some I catch, but some I don't. Some I probably do repeatedly, not knowing they're mistakes. I think the reason this is different is because I make a conscious effort to minimize the mistakes in my writing.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Man, I'm sitting here wishing with all my heart that Jon Boy had made a typo on that post so I could correct it for him. 'Cause, you know, that would be funny in context.
No, I will resist the temptation to edit his post to introduce an error. Yes, I know his password. Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
See, I'm thinking that it would be good to change the fear of flogging (and the flogging itself) from Hatrack entirely.
I'll tell you why.
Not so long ago, I had a particularly bad stint doing some editing. They had some personal issues betweenn people that had onee group thinking I was copy-editing only and another group wanting me to do manuscript doctoring. The one group sent me a few pages at a time, which wasn't a problem as far as the copy editing went. However, some of the problems with manuscript centered on unnecessary repetition of information in several sections. I finally suggested they hire an edditor who does ghostwriting.
In any case, I came here after hours of wading through that stuff, brain fried and headsore, and started a thread, basically griping about my job. I thought I was among friends, just chatting.
And, yeah, hoping for some sympathy or commiseration. Which I did get. But I also got a lot of snarky people quoting typos and mistakes in my post, ssniggering behind their hands. Basically saying, "Who do you think you ARE to call yourself a copy editor if you post simple mistakes like THAT."
EXCUUUUUSE me if I don't feel like combing through every post the way I would if I was being paid to do it.
Seriously. You guys wanna pay me $27.00 an hour to post on Hatrack? If you do, then it will be perfect. If not, then leave me alone, okay? I don't have great typing skills or the time to compose and edit all my posts (double-checking spelliing et al), because I have two active boys to mind and real, honest-to-goodness work to do.
You wouldn't criticize a brick-layer for not wanting to lay brick in her spare time, would you? Would correct people's grammar if you were sitting around in a coffee shop, talking about your lives and families?
You might think, "Oh, that person said x," but would you really seek to publicly humilliate them? What IS that, except scoring points off someone by making them look foolish?
I DO HONESTLY believe that grammar and punctuation are important, but the most important thing about Hatrack is communication, I think.
So if you don't understand what someone meant because they never use caps or punctuation, then ask them nicely to clarify. But if you understand them and still wish to point out their mistakes publicly, why do that if not to demonstrate your superiority? (Except, of course, in cases where you are picking at a good friend in some sort of ongoing jest, as some of us do )
I am guilty of this, as well. I know I am. I would simply like us all to do our part in making Hatrack a place for ideas, not a place where people get flogged for splitting their infinitives.
That's an atmosphere that I think our illustrious host would also support.
That was all I was trying to say.
(I didn't proof this post carefully, I admit, but you'll have to pay me to edit it. I have PayPal )
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Mabe. I have many other duties at this job, though I was hired as a technical writer/editor. If business picks up he'll want more people.
I'm a contractor. I get no benefits and have to pay my own taxes. I only work when he has something for me to do, so it's less than 40 hours in a month, even when I was doing several projects at once. He hasn't had anything for me to do since September, but it works out well with the kids and the volunteering I do at their school.
Oh, and the freelance editor tthat took over the book (as a ghostwriter)? She makes $90.00 an hour (which is why they tried so hard to get me to do it, since I only charged $15.00). So there is money to be had editing -- just not if yyou need the steady paycheck from The Man. If my family had only my income to live on, I'd be begging the feds to take me back. (Close to the same hourly wage, but considerably more secure. And soul-crushing. Mustn't forget the soul-crushing) What I'm doing now is good work if you can get it, but it isn't steady.
If you two had the wherewithal to start a business for yourselves, it might take some time to develop a sustainable income, but once you make a name for yourselves and get referrals, etc. it would add up.
I'd say you'd be doing better than me in no time, since I acknowledge that you probably have more of a knack for it than I do. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I can see if my boss would be willing to farm out some of the editing to people over the internet. (I'm certain he'd prefer most of the technical writing to be done by people he can call into the office for meetings, etc. since a lot of the technical writing comes from those meetings.)
So email me if you or your other half are interested. He doesn't have enough work to keep ME busy right now, but he hopes to have lots more than one person can do by the spring.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
That's very nice of you. And since I hope to be a stay-at-home mom doing freelancing on the side come late spring, I may take you up on that offer. No hard feelings if it doesn't work out, though, of course.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I'm glad. I realized (a bit late) that that post (the first one posted on the 29th) came off a lot pissier than I intended (with the added bonus of sounding like I was bragging). *wince*
The truth is that I'm pretty good at usage but punctuation and spelling (especially) do not come naturally to me. It's work. I have to think about it.
Since most of my social contacts are all related somehow to my children, I come to Hatrack as a place to chat and talk about grown-up stuff. I'd rather think about what I'm trying to say than worry about whether-or-not I have used WAY too many commas (I know I do that a lot) That's what I was getting at, but it came out like "I get soo much money! Watch me wallow in it!" Which is just plain wrong. I get enough to pay various school fees and keep my ragamuffins in sneakers (if I bank it and dole it out for the lean times, which isn't always possible when we need tires or have unexpected medical bills).
Anyway, I have no doubt that you and Jon Boy both have a greater natural facility and talent for editing than I do. It strains me wee brains, doncha know.
So my appologies to anyone I have offended with this thread. I started in the hopes of preventing hurt feelings.
But, for the record, I passed a bilboard yesterday that said, "Beautiful, Aren't I?" and it made me very sad. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Actually, "aren't I" is perfectly good usage, illogical as it seems.
I don't know if I really have a greater natural talent for editing. It's just something that I've put a lot of work into and have studied a great deal.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
It's acceptable usage, but anytime you can't replace the contraction with the actual words without sounding stupid, it annoys me. *giggle*
Just like it is now acceptable usage to say "You make me nauseous" instead of "You nauseate me" that doesn't mean I have to LIKE it. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Olivet: I considered it a huge step in my personal development when I could end a sentence with a preposition and not feel the need to cleanse.
posted
I would find that amusing, but with my parents, I knew the difference between "who" and "whom" by the time I was three. *sigh*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
And if you heard my parents, you'd be surprised I'm coherent. Seriously, their first language was Plaut Deutsche (Mennonite low German), their second high German, my father's third was French, and my father's fourth and my mother's third were English. They spoke with Plaut Deutsche idioms and sentence structure.
Kids at school laughed at me for years. It scarred me for life. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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ssniggering behind their hands. Basically saying, "Who do you think you ARE to call yourself a copy editor if you post simple mistakes like THAT." ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
(which is why they tried so hard to get me to do it, since I only charged $15.00). So there is money to be had editing -- just not if yyou need the steady paycheck from The Man. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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