posted
Oh, my family would kill me. Would it be okay if I sent a list of ingredients instead of the actual recipe?
Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Celaeno: I'm in then. My person gets brownies. Secret recipe brownies.
Are they SPECIAL brownies?
I'd love to do this, but I'm baking challenged. If I can enslave someone else for a day to help, it's doable. Or if the person doesn't mind Pillsbury place 'n' bake white chocolate macadamia nut which may or may not be slightly overcooked.
posted
I'm ready to begin! Tell me the address of my cookie recipient!
The serial nature of this event means people can continue to sign up on an ongoing basis. People who take longer than, oh, say... a week between receiving and giving get tongues stuck out at them! After two weeks, they forfeit and their link of the chain is closed by a volunteer initiator.
People who have received but not sent, who passed their two week deadline, for whatever reason, can repent and rejoin the fold by becoming the initator that closes a gap in another broken chain, or founds a new chain. Each chain should contain roughly 10 people. If everything goes as planned, everyone should receive and send 1 batch of cookies roughly every 2 - 3 months.
How does all that sound? Does that sound workable? Proposals for additional or modified rules are welcome!
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, and if you want to drop out, just be sure to do it before receiving or after sending your latest batch. Dropping out between receiving and sending is frowned upon. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
It actually would be fun for each time a chain loops around, if we cross up the chains somehow. You know? Wouldn't it be cool if we have a different recipient and cookie-maker each time around? I don't quite see how that can be accomplished easily, but I'll think on it some more.
Katie, are you the HQ? Does this sound to you like a good way to do things?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thinking about this whole thing, I'm a little bit worried that the chains may die out rather quickly. People get sick, or have family emergencies, or whatever. Or (if they're like me) procrastinate and forget.
What if we use a model that's regenerative? Like for each batch you receive you send 2 batches out? Then the cookie swap could grow from small beginnings to eventually engulf the world! What do you think? Would we eventually be drowning in cookies if we try something like that? The way I picture it, it could continue to expand indefinitely. Why should we set our sights low? Cookie Nation! Cookie World! Cookie Universe!
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the 1-in, 2-out, idea would make an intriguing experience, but I wouldn't want to hold anyone else to it unless there's a lot of interest. (Don't want to discourage anyone from participating due to cost or complexity).
Anyway, I think the chains should definitely be shuffled. An easy-ish way to do this would be to make them dynamically. Let's say we have 30 participants. You make three chains, but only put say, 5 people in each chain. When someone receives cookies, they come off a chain and go in a holding tank and someone else comes out of the "pool" (of waiting players) to take their place in that chain. When the pool is empty, the "holding tank" becomes the new pool, and the empty pool becomes the new holding tank.
I like this idea because: 1. It is a sort of self-randomizing system. 2. New players can be added at any time. Just drop them into the pool to picked at random when a slot opens in a chain. 3. Moderators don't have to worry about constructing new chains or artificially shuffling names. Just pull from the pool and drop in the tank.
One con might be that because it is random, some people will wait longer between receiving cookies batches than others, but I think that will happen any time you shuffle lists. Under this system, though, this could be minimized by keeping the tank and pool organized as lists, first in - first out. If we have at least three chains then the general tendency will be for the person from chain "a" to go in the tank next to a person from chain "b" or "c", etc.
Also, I don't mind the random wait. I'm not interested in knowing when my cookies are due. I want to be surprised one day with cookies, and a name of someone to pass the fun on to. And having said that, while I'd like to receive from and send to someone new each time, I'm not gonna cry if I get the same name twice. If this lasts a while, I'm sure it will get shuffled well enough. And I wouldn't want this to be a chore for the moderators.
BTW who's on the cookie committee besides Katie?
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Who wants to be? Karl, could you be? I love the idea of the random shuffling. I was waiting to see how many people sign up, and we are already over 20, so several tracks and a systemized method of assignation is a good idea.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I certainly can be, and I would be happy to if I'm needed to make this work. (On the other hand, it sorta sucks for the committee members since they will always know when cookies are coming.) (But on the other other hand they get to put themselves in line behind the best bakers )
So sure, I'm in. What do you want me to do?
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, that's a great idea! Everyone goes onto a master list, and each time they receive cookies, they go to the end of the list, and new people also go to the end of the list, then addresses are assigned to the latest round of cookie bakers starting at the front of the list. That works wonderfully! And it should work out to be fairly random in terms of which bakers are paired with which bakees each time through. I love it!
Maybe the 2-in-one-out paradigm should be reserved for people who enjoy generating more chains, on a voluntary basis, as Karl Ed proposed. I like that idea, and I'll volunteer to be one of those. I get a real kick out of baking cookies and mailing them out, as my friends can tell you. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm slightly confused as to the dynamics of this whole chain thing (I'm sure re-reading it would help...), so I'll just say this: I'll send out any reasonable number of cookies. And a list of ingredients, because mine is a secret recipe. I also don't mind going right away.
PS - I love cookies in all shapes and sizes.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the official exchange will still be one to one. If people want to send out more than one package, they can e-mail the home office when they get their person for more addresses, and somehow it should be made clear that there are official cookie recipients and bonus cookie recipients, and the bonus can go on but do not have to, because their turn will come to be official cookie recipients.
And I still haven't written KarlEd. I'm sorry - I haven't forgotten. It's been a busy day. I will do so today.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, Katie, what I meant was this. The founder of each chain is in a special position, because everyone afterwards forms a link where they receive then give. The founder gives that first batch with no return, because even if it ever makes it back around (and there will be many cases in which it won't) then they'll want to continue the chain so they'll naturally carry on and send out the next batch.
The reward, then, for starting a chain, is intangible. It's the happy feeling you get from knowing you started something good, that may continue, and bring other people happiness. I think everyone should be allowed to found any number of chains that they want, For this reason. But if these new chains by defnition stop after just one link, then there's no point. The feeling of having started something cool is gone. Does that make sense?
I'm just tossing these ideas out to see what people want to do. We will find out, by actually doing it, what works and what doesn't. And we'll know after a few rounds if the ground rules need to be modified. I do think, given the vicissitudes of life, that we will need some mechanism for generating new chains and repairing broken chains. But we can deal with that when the time comes.
In the meantime if I can help, either in administration or just by founding a chain or two or three, a stand ready to do whatever's needed.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I certainly wouldn't mind sending out to more than one recipient. The recipe I plan on making usually makes somewhere between 5 and 6 dozen cookies, and we certainly don't need that many around here. Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay, at least two chains have been founded as of today! Sign up, all ye who love cookies! I hope everyone enjoys what I sent them. I included a card for people to sign and pass along the chain. I thought it would be cool to be able to see all the links in the chain.
posted
Minerva, is it something that's possible for a non-Jew to do? I would be willing to do whatever was needed to keep kosher, if you'll teach me how. There's something specially sacred to me about religious observances that aren't my own. Maybe it's just that we lose the sense of how special and holy our own are, through long familiarity? Anway, if this LDS girl can qualify, I'd be willing to do whatever was needed. Let me know.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:There's something specially sacred to me about religious observances that aren't my own. Maybe it's just that we lose the sense of how special and holy our own are, through long familiarity?
Just wanted to pop in to say I think that's a beautiful thought. A philosophy like that could change the world. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wow Tatiana. That's an extremely generous offer.
Normally, I would say no, but for cookies it might actually be possible to do it without too much of a hassle. Let me think about it.
I am really blown away that a non-Jew would be willing to do this. There are few enough Jews that are willing.
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
And then, of course, all of the ingredients would need to be kosher. For cookies, that probably wouldn't be too restrictive (kosher gelatin, no lard, etc).
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
And for my third post: How to make kosher cookies in a non-kosher kitchen so, if you really wanted to, i'd say: 1) buy all kosher ingrediants 2) go to a dollar store and grab a mixing bowl, measuring cups/spoons, something to stir it with, cookie cutters and a rolling pin; buy an aluminum disposable cookie sheet 3) put down some wax paper or somthing to roll the dough out on 4) run your oven on the self-clean cycle 5) bake away!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The U with the circle around it means kosher?
My White Lily flour has that! The Land of Lakes unsalted butter has a U with a circle around it, and a D. So are both of those good? Let me go check sugar, eggs, vanilla, etc.
Do I need to start with new packages of all the ingredients?
I bake the cookies on parchment paper, so that they never actually touch the cookie sheet. Would that count as kosher?
My Domino sugar has a K with a circle around it, and a P outside the circle, but no U circle thingy.
Can you unravel for me the meaning of these symbols?
1. Measuring cups and spoons 2. Mixing bowl 3. Mixer Paddle Attachment (for Kitchen Aid) 4. Stirring spatula 5. Disher (like a small ice cream scoop) 6. Tupperware type containers to ship. 7. Parchment paper (disposable)
So if I buy all new implements then tovel them, then run my oven through the self-cleaning cycle, then buy all kosher ingredients, then bake the cookies, they'll be kosher? That's not too hard. Does the mixer itself need to have anything done to it? Or just the parts that touch food?
Once the implements are okay, does putting them in the dishwasher, then storing on a shelf, compromise their okay-ness for use next time? What do I need to do to maintain their status?
One more question. Can you describe to me how to "make the brachah al tevillat keilim"? Is it a prayer?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just realized I forgot to include the recipes in the cookies I sent out!
Here they are:
Famous Oatmeal Cookies
1.5 cups unsalted butter (three sticks) 1 cup granulated sugar 2 cups brown sugar, firmly packed 2 eggs 1/2 cup water 2 teaspoons vanilla extract 2 cups self rising flour 6 cups oats (1 of those cylindrical cardboard boxes) (don't get instant, quick, or minute oats, just plain old Quaker oats)
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.
Cream butter, gradually add sugars, then eggs, water and vanilla. Beat until creamy, scraping down sides as required. Add flour slowly until well-mixed. Stir in oats. Dish with a medium-sized disher onto cookie sheets lined with parchment paper. Bake about 12 minutes. Allow to cool before removing from the paper.
Preheat oven to 375 degrees F. In a large mixing bowl, combine flour and cocoa powder, mix well, get any lumps out. In a medium sized mixing bowl, whisk sugar, butter, eggs, buttermilk, and vanilla extract together until smooth. Make a well in the middle of the dry ingredients, pour in the wet ones. Mix together just until barely combined. Do not mix until smooth. Dish into buttered muffin pans with a medium-large disher. Cups should be full. Change oven temp to 400 degrees F when you put them in the oven. Bake for 20 minutes or until done.
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: Here is everything that touches the food.
1. Measuring cups and spoons 2. Mixing bowl 3. Mixer Paddle Attachment (for Kitchen Aid) 4. Stirring spatula 5. Disher (like a small ice cream scoop) 6. Tupperware type containers to ship. 7. Parchment paper (disposable)
So if I buy all new implements then tovel them, then run my oven through the self-cleaning cycle, then buy all kosher ingredients, then bake the cookies, they'll be kosher? That's not too hard. Does the mixer itself need to have anything done to it? Or just the parts that touch food?
Once the implements are okay, does putting them in the dishwasher, then storing on a shelf, compromise their okay-ness for use next time? What do I need to do to maintain their status?
One more question. Can you describe to me how to "make the brachah al tevillat keilim"? Is it a prayer?
For me, just buying new implements is fine (there are varying levels of kashrus, so this might not be fine for everyone. But almost everyone, I would say). Cleaning the oven is necessary to make it kosher. And of course, the kosher ingredients are necessary.
The mixer blade depends on what it is made of.
If you wash the implements separately and make sure they don't touch anything else that touches food, then they will still be fine.
The bracha is a prayer (a blessing). There is no need for you make it. But just in case you are wondering, it's basically what you say when you immerse the implements to purify them. It translates to something like, "Blessed are you our G-d, king of creation, who has made us righteous with your commandments and given us these laws about purifying objects."
As for knowing whether food is kosher, you are right to look at the little marks (called hekshers). The K basically doesn't mean anything. It's the company saying that they think it's kosher, not any authority. Any other mark is fine for me (again, differing standards for different people). The eggs are always kosher. The D is for dairy. The P is parve which means no meat or dairy.
Wow...this really sounds like a huge pain when you write it all out.
Anyway, if you still feel up to it, awesome. If not, I totally understand!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
sweetaboo, I don't mind at all. I think I posted the oatmeal one somewhere already, so it might have been there.
Minerva, it's not a pain at all! I find it fascinating to learn about, and it makes me feel very happy to do it. The mixer blade is made of porcelain and looks like this.
If I run a separate load of dishes through the dishwasher with just these new implements, and store them separately so they don't touch any other food prep items, then they stay okay? I want to be sure I do this right.
Thanks for telling me the meaning of the marks. This is so interesting to me. So things marked with a K in a circle aren't acceptable, but things marked with the U in a circle are? Do I need to start with unopened packages of all the ingredients?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
K in a circle is the O-K and would be fine. A plain K is not. The P is NEVER for Parve! P means kosher for Passover. Parve is always written out. (So you may see an O-U P D on milk chocolate that is kosher for Passover, f'rinstance.)
There is no need for you to tovel anything. Toveling has nothing to do with kosher.
Dishwashers are problematic.
Also, and I hesitate to bring this up, but I think ak should be aware that one of the restrictions on kosher food (which not everyone who keeps kosher is concerned with, but I certainly am) is that the food must be cooked by a Jew. What that effectively means for an electric (or electric-start gas) oven/stove is that it must have been turned on by a Jew. A gas stove/oven with a pilot is simpler -- just the pilot must have been lit by a Jew. (Do you have any idea how hard it is to buy ranges with a pilot these days?!?)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
rivka, will a Reform Jew count for oven-starting, or must it be an Orthodox Jew?
I can wash the implements by hand if that helps.
Also, I may mix by hand depending on how things work out. I want to do everything right. The person mixing does not have to be a Jew, I hope?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is so cool! I love the education we're getting here, so thank you, rivka and Minerva, and thank you, Tatiana, for being willing to do this. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's going to be a few weeks before I can start, since I'm starting a new job and my disposable income for things like new implements will go way up soon.
I'm really excited about doing it, and I'm loving the education I'm getting, too! I'm thinking now of how I can find someone Jewish in my neighborhood who won't mind coming by to start the oven. This may end up making me some new local friends! I know there are lots of Jewish people nearby. There's an orthodox synagogue within about 3 miles, and the Levite Jewish Community Center is one mile up the street. Maybe I'll make a flyer "LDS girl wanting to bake kosher cookies needs a Jew willing to stop by and turn my oven on. Must keep all the laws of shabbos."
Does that sound offensive or rude in any way?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd answer a flyer like that! And I'd want to get to know the kind of person who would make a flyer like that.
(All the flyers in my neighborhood seem to advertise yard sales that happened a few weeks ago.)
And even though I know what LDS is, maybe the Shabbos Jews you are looking for don't. Maybe "Mormon girl" would be clearer?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tante, good idea! I'll make it say "LDS (Mormon) girl..." You're right that people around here aren't too familiar with my religion. This is going to be fun!
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I used to do this for a Jewish friend of mine and my first husband's. I would prepare supper, and he would come and turn on the stove for us.
As I recall, the dishwashing machine was an issue because using non-kosher items in it could "contaminate" it. But I seem to remember that some sources though it okay to use as long as the loads were separate, and others had an interpretation that required completely separate dishwashers for meat and dairy.
posted
Domino Sugar has the O-K, while my flour and butter have the O-U. Do all Jews consider either/both the O-K and/or the O-U acceptable?
So eggs are always acceptable. Is tap water acceptable, or should I buy bottled water that's marked with a symbol?
I need to check at the store on the vanilla extract and oats, but if those two items are clear, then I am ready to go! I know exactly what I need to do. This is great!
I'm clearing out a special shelf for the new bowls and implements so they won't touch anything else. I'll put down parchment paper on the countertop where I'm working, and I'll run the oven through the self-cleaning cycle the night before. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I accept both O-K and O-U as acceptable, as do most of the Kosher Jews that I know. Eggs are fine, unless they have a blood spot on the yolk. For that reason, Kosher Jews will crack each egg separately into a glass to check it for blood spots before adding it to the rest of the recipe.
I worked as a dishwasher for a summer camp for Jewish children. Many, many years ago.
There were different colored dishes for foods that included dairy, versus other foods. They were kept completely separate at all times.
We had to wash the dishes by color. Before starting on a new color, we ran the dishwasher through a cycle unloaded, and cleaned/sanitized all the surfaces.
The singing in the hall was really neat. *smiles*
Tatiana -- what a lovely thing you are doing!
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Awesome! I actually always crack each egg separately into a glass bowl to check it for anything unsavory before adding it to the rest of the recipe. I do that because my mother's mother taught my mother to do that and because she taught me. I would reject a blood spot, or if the yolk looks discolored in any way, or if the whites are too cloudy, or if there's anything else that looks odd or unsavory about it. I actually think this custom in my family is left over from the days when they kept free-range chickens, and eggs were fertilized, so that it was always possible to find a partially developed embryo inside.
But I'm glad to hear tap water is okay. Our water in Birmingham wins all sorts of awards, though I'm sure that doesn't necessarily affect its kosher status.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
