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Foundling, not so much the bill of rights. I was wrong about that. As for our influence on forming governments, it is hard to believe you have never heard of it. Many, many nations got the idea of the Presidential system from the United States. Most nations use it, actually.
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Y'know the other reason there's could be a perception?
Every country has it's nationalistic people. Every country has it's arrogant people. Every country has it's jerks.
But because Americans and American culture are so pervasive (not your fault. Just the way the world is at the moment) the jerky elements get magnified, and a whole country is unfairly maligned.
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A Prime Minister is a politician who serves as the head of the executive branch of government in a parliamentary system. A Prime Minister can be:
The chairperson (leading member) of the cabinet; or The official, in countries with a semi-presidential system of government, who is appointed to manage the civil service and execute the directives of the President.
It's a term unique to the British system. President just means someone who presides over others. Not much to do with the US if another country also has a President. It's just a word.
Same goes with the Westminster System, whilst Congress just means "A formal assembly of representatives, as of various nations, to discuss problems."
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quote: Many, many nations got the idea of the Presidential system from the United States. Most nations use it, actually
Do you have anything to back this up?
Most ex-Commonwealth countries have a Westminster system of Government, which is very *very* different from the American model (even if the head of state is called the President).
In fact I believe the American model of government is fairly unique in it's structure - could you refer me to other countries with directly elected Presidents who are not figureheads?
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quote: Prime Ministers and Presidents Among a democracy's most important decisions is the method of electing its leaders and representatives. In general, there are two choices. In a parliamentary system, the majority party in the legislature, or a coalition of parties, forms a government headed by a prime minister. This system of parliamentary government, which first evolved in Great Britain, is today practiced in most of Europe, the Caribbean, Canada, India, and many countries in Africa and Asia (often former British colonies). The other major method is direct election of a president independently of the legislature. This presidential system is practiced today in much of Latin America, the Philippines, France, Poland, and the United States.
So - we have some countries with directly elected presidents. Is that system based on the American system? I'd assume the Phillipino system is. I don't know about France, Poland or the Latin American countries.
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quote:Well, I can see why they wouldn't like Texas. Hicks with guns are pretty frightening.
I find this comment incredibly insulting. Just as all Americans aren't arrogant self loving jerks, not all Texans are hicks with guns.
As to the gun debate, I think people that do not like the right to bear arms have not spent much time in rural areas. My grandparents live in a place where the average police response time is 20- 30 minutes. My grandfather believes that he has stopped multiple break-ins by firing a gun into the air. I think it would be terrifying to live in such an isolated area without a gun.
And Reticulum- Our idea of American freedoms comes largely from English Locke and French Rousseau. It's ridiculous to claim them as uniquely our own.
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quote: As for our influence on forming governments, it is hard to believe you have never heard of it. Many, many nations got the idea of the Presidential system from the United States. Most nations use it, actually.
Huh. Wow. Thanks for the proof, Reticulum. You've given me alot to think about. You must have put alot of time and effort into that research. I appreciate it.
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quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: Yes, Imogen, but where do you think they got the and terms for a President?
You're not listening. President is just a word. Not a system. How about this: where did America get the words "Yes... [I have no idea about the word imogen ] ... but where do you think they got the and terms for a President?"
I don't know for sure, but I'd put my money on England, even the word "President".
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Actually, I'm from America, and I thought that was a pretty funny comment. Our Presidential system is our own. Yes, many of our ideas and freedoms were heavily derived from England. In fact, LOTS were taken from England. We DID however, as many other nations did to England's and the U.S.'s, make them our own.
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In one of his plays? Do you know if its true that Shakespeare added something like 25% to the English language in his day? Obviously a big figure so I probably heard my English teacher wrong.
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And just because another country uses the same word doesn't mean it has the exact same meaning.
Take "pants," for example.
At any rate, speaking as someone who's traveled all over Europe, arrogant "My country is better than all of you"-ism is DEFINITELY not a purely American trait.
posted
Thank you Foundling. And no, President is NOT just a word. It is an independent and seperate system that has its own ways. It is offensive to me that you say, "President is just a word", as it is a founding idea of my country, and many of the world.
Here is why the Presidnetial system is not "Just a word", and what the system actually is.
quote:Originally posted by cheiros do ender: In one of his plays? Do you know if its true that Shakespeare added something like 25% to the English language in his day? Obviously a big figure so I probably heard my English teacher wrong.
Oh, it's true, but he didn't actually add that many new words. Rather, he added letters left and right. In fact, those two words used to be spelled "lef" and "riht." "midsummer" used to be simply "summer," "night" used to be "nite," and "dream" used to be "drem."
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But the system is NOT. That is what I am trying to convey. Because THEN, by your logic, Parliament is JUST a word. Could have called it Caughdrops, and you would have the Coughdrops System.
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quote: It is offensive to me that you say, "Presidnet is just a word", as it is a founding of my country, and many of the world
Calm down.
Reticulm, I kind of hate to pull the "I know more about this than you card" but I'm going to. Trust the woman who has done comparative law and believe me when I say I think you should do a little more reading (and not from wikipedia) on the matter.
pH - I tried to reply to Icarus about the other people loving their countries the "best" but Hatrack crashed.
Anyway - I believe you both. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there. (And thinking about it, I do know a Swiss man who is arrogant in that way. So I have seen it. I take it all back. )
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quote:Originally posted by cheiros do ender: In one of his plays? Do you know if its true that Shakespeare added something like 25% to the English language in his day? Obviously a big figure so I probably heard my English teacher wrong.
Oh, it's true, but he didn't actually add that many new words. Rather, he added letters left and right. In fact, those two words used to be spelled "lef" and "riht.[/i] "midsummer" used to be simply "summer," "night" used to be "nite," and "dream" used to be "drem."
And Imogen is commonly thought to be a misspelling of "Innocen", which in turn came from "Innocenza", an Italian name meaning (duh!) innocent.
Nifty.
And Cheiros - yup, it's the name of the lady's maid in Cymbeline.
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posted
Wait, what are you trying to say you know more about? Well, I know actually, but just make a summary.
There is the President, like the Parliament which IS just a word. But the SYSTEMS are NOT just words. They are the two most profoundly used form of the government in the world.
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I guess I shouldn't tell you that I refer to my toilet brush as "the president."
"Honey, the toilet is getting a bit skanky. Can you fetch me the president and the veepee?" (veepee = Toilet Duck)
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And I use "Serious" to refer to a really bright star in the eastern sky. You know the one: it's the brightest one out there, and because it's so bright, geographically challenged people keep mistaking it for Polaris. ("Hey, honey! Look out over the Atlantic! I think that must be Polaris!")
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imogen: Unless you already said this on the first page, were you going to be referring to Australia or Europe or another part of the world?
I kind of wonder if maybe the pride in Europe is similar to the pride that people from Asia take in being Vietnamese or Chinese. I really don't know because I'm too much of a combination of things to really pick out one part of my ancestry to take pride in, aside from being Protestant.
I know. I wasnt. When I was complimenting you on your intensive research I was being rather sarcastic. You saying that "Many, many nations got the idea of the Presidential system from the United States" is not proof. Do some more research, READ about the points you are trying to make, and it will help you to engage in intelligent conversation about it.
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In any case, who's to say that your lovely Presidential system is any better than the Parliamentary system? It's not like there's only one form of democracy.
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pH - I haven't seen people in Australia say that this is the best country in the world. Not in the "Australia is the best nation on EARTH!" kind of way.
But on reflection I am sure those people exist.
Although the whole laconic / cut down what you like Australian attitude might also minimise the occurance of such sentiments.
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Reticulum, in US political context President is uniquely what you're trying to describe. But you're failing miserably to prove all those blue countries are actually based on the US system.
"Prime Minister" is in every sense of the word unique to the Westminster system. "President" can be applied in a US high school. How about some proof that the French Presidential System is based on the US Presidential System? They don't even have a Congress (thoguh I'm sure some Americans would translate it to that), they have a National Assembly.
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I suppose you think American influenced all the Republics in the modern world to become so too?
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The French are a semi-presidnetial system. They use aspects of both the parliamentary and presidential systems. They are labeled aa Presidential because... they have a presidnet.
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quote:Originally posted by cheiros do ender: I suppose you think American influenced all the Republics in the modern world to become so too?
Ohhh, Yesss, because all Americans think we are masters of the world, and that we influence and control EVERYTHING.
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Presidnet is the name of the system of computers secretly watching over the internet. Eventually, it will take control of our defen--crap, I probably shouldn't've said that.
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Well, Amanecer beat me to several points, including defending Texas and pointing out that many of the founding father's ideas were based on the thoughts of European philosophers.
And even in that wiki link Reticulum posted, it links the presidential/congressional system to the Roman Empire, which if I remember my history classes correctly, came long before the US. In other words, the US didn't invent it - modify it, sure.
And a question for you, where does France fall with it's President and Premier? Or how about many Latin American countries (and yes, like Imogen's comment about Africa, I'd question how democratic Latin America is. Then again, I'd question if the US is as democratic as we like to think it is.) that have presidents but based their constitutions on the French constitution, not the US model.
Back to the perception of Americans, I'd agree with much of what Icarus had to say on the last page. And in general, when I've travelled through Europe and Latin America, I've had no problems. I've found that most people have no problems with Americans as individuals, it's more the perceptions they have of us as a people. But every country has their stereotypes that they have to deal with.
And lastly, where's Papa Moose to comment on the self-loving?
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Alright then, where's the proof that all parliamentary nations are TRULY parliamentary nations, and haven't modified it?
My main point was that the U.S. has influenced many nation's government's with our systems and policies, and the Presidential system, is a fine example. THAT much, you really can't deny.
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My main point is that in the US we speak a variant of English. Also, we have dirt here. Now who wants to try and deny THAT?!
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(Also, baseball is far superior to cricket, as is football [real, manly, American football] to both rugby and soccer.)
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quote:Many Europeans did indeed model some if their constitutions and governments after America. After all, look how wide spread the office of President is, and the fact that they are elected by the people.
quote:*realizing I said the wrong thing* I meant they modeled some of their governments after us ( ), which led to some of the freedoms we have, becoming theirs.
And what you said next seems to completely contradict yourself:
quote:After all, we got many of the things we do and have... from Britain.
quote:Originally posted by Risuena: Back to the perception of Americans, I'd agree with much of what Icarus had to say on the last page.
What, and everything I've posted on this page is what--nonsense?!?!
Of course it's not all nonsense. I'm sure you're right about Plato being an American since Athens is in Georgia.
As for president being the name of the computers watching over the internet, well, that's just crazy talk. Everyone knows that that particular system is called Brunhilde. I mean, come on - the president? Why would they name themselves after a toilet brush? Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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