quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Superman has several moments of angst in the Donner Superman film. Most notably after the deaths of Pa Kent and Lois Lane.
Superman II has still more angst, with the notion that Superman cannot love like an Earthling unless he becomes an Earthling. (Which actually makes sense, even if the "Kiss of Amnesia" power doesn't.)
Okay, granted, my choice of words was too sweeping. Still, Superman at his most angstful in the first two films is still in better shape than either Batman or Spiderman on one of their best days. And theirs lingers, while his never really gets to him. (Heck, his love interest dies in the first one, and two minutes later he's made things all better.)
(I suppose I'm still reeling from the version proposed about a decade ago, focusing on the pain of being the last survivor of one's world on an alien planet, that being what drove Supes to try to be better and gain acceptance, or something like that.)
That said, okay, I may have overstated the case.
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Well that's the thing with the Maquis/Federation relationship. They don't necessarily consider the Federation as their enemy, and they know the Federation isn't bad or evil, they just want to be left alone. Their main enemy is the Cardassians.
It's an interesting view to call Firefly the Anti-Federation Star Trek with Han Solo and such. Maybe no so much interesting as obvious.
Combining the niche popularity of Firefly with the broad appeal of Star Trek to the masses would have to be carefully done. If you change things too dramatically, you anger the Roddenberry faithful of old, but if you don't change it enough, you get more of the same ole that killed Enterprise.
I think the end of the Federation, or a post-Dominion occupation of Cardassia is too far out there, and wouldn't be enjoyable in the same way that the long time Star Trek fans have enjoyed it. But I could be wrong, while it might anger the old fans, it might also bring in new fans, which the franchise could certainly use. It's open season at the moment, the people who make Star Trek just need to keep coming up with new ideas until something reasonable sticks.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I don't see why the Federation has to end. I think it would be much more interesting if it was still around. In DS9, there were already so many hints that the Federation had got a little too big for it's boots and that there was some corruption (or at least the distinct possibility of it) creeping in. There was the dilemma about how to save earth-as-paradise from the threat of invasion and terrorism without destroying it at the same time.
I think the best way to keep the idealism of the old shows, while also making it darker, would be for a crew to discover that there was something really wrong with the high-ups. And then they have to sort it out, despite the fact that everyone can't believe that such a thing could be possible. So they steal their ship and become outcasts, freedom fighters, or something. Only, they're not fighting against an evil empire, or even an enemy, but are in opposition to the very thing that they want to preserve. There could be a lot of moral dilemmas involved in that whole process.
It wouldn't be a story of innocence lost, so much as innocence temporarily mislaid and eventually, probably with much loss, regained.
And NO reset button. And only one time travel/the-holodeck's-gone-pear-shaped episode allowed per season. And they would need better uniforms. Spandex jump-suits have had their day.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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That's not a bad idea. It's basically what the Maquis are doing, only on a much more massive scale. It's already been done a few times in shorter episode arcs in the other shows, but instead of ending it quickly, it'd be interesting to see it taken over a seven season story arc, even though it basically descends into Civil War. However, I'm wondering how plausible it is.
You'll never get that many Federation ships to fire on each other, and even if they all found out there was corruption at the highest levels, they'd quickly rebel against it. They don't follow immoral orders on the whole, they disobey orders. Especially Picard.
Unless you're talking way, way in the future when the Federation has changed, but if you mean just after the Dominion War, I don't see it happening. The Klingons are reeling from a war, the Romulans are already plotting to gobble up Cardassian territory they don't want to give back, and the Federation is dealing with billions of deaths and the loss of hundreds of ships. The Fed citizens are sick of war, and have shown little tolerance for corruption.
Which is why I think the story works better with the Maquis, who have totally lost their feeling as citizens of the Federation, and have changed their morality in the face of war, and their tactics. The Federation still isn't evil to them, but so long as it stands in their way, it stands as an enemy.
Still, the more I think about it Bella, the idea of a fight to save the very core of the Federation sounds like an incredibly fantastic idea that I could fall in love with were it actually made into a show. I just wonder how the mechanics of it would work, and how plausible they could make it sound.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership?
As I recall, the original idea was that Star Fleet was going to stage a military coup of the Federation. Gene Roddenberry was so horrified by the idea that they changed it to brain slugs.
Still, an enemy is an enemy.
I'd like to see more of the Orion Syndicate myself (as long as we can ignore the fanservice episode "Bound")... something like "Star Trek: Orion Vice".
Posts: 196 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
And yet the idea was revamped in DS9 in I think the episode "Paradise Lost" where Starfleet did in fact try to overthrow the Federation government, but it was thwarted by Odo, Sisko and the Defiant.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Well, saying "Rick Berman was no Gene Roddenberry" is sort of like saying "the Pope is Catholic". The whole franchise took a nose-dive after Gene died, IMO.
Of course, Gene would never have approved of "Star Trek: Orion Vice"... but that's probably where he was a better man than I.
Posts: 196 | Registered: May 2005
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