I have to say, I fully expected Jean to die. I even fully expected, once they explained it, for the cure to only be a temporary thing.
I didn't expect them to kill Cyclops in the first 20 minutes of the movie, and rather mysteriously at that. It was such a...pointless, useless death. And we didn't even really know what happened to him until much later.
Some of the movie was satisfying, I've always sort of wanted to see an all out brawl like we saw. But at the end when Magneto more or less got his powers back, I was a little disappointed. He's already more or less out of character. The only shadow of the Magneto that I liked was when he defended Xavier to Pyro, but other than that, and when he yelled "Jean no!" as she killed Xavier, their relationship is fairly black and white, with little of the complexity from the comics or cartoon.
I was however satisfied, and not surprised when Xavier was alive at the end.
What really disappointed me about Magneto getting his powers back, is that if there is a fourth movie, he'll be the bad guy. I'd really like to see Apocalypse make an appearance. I think they've ruled out Mr. Sinister, now that Jean and Scott are dead. On the bright side of the deaths, now they can bring in more characters.
Side note, for all you looking for Gambit. The role of Gambit was offered to Josh Holloway of LOST, but he turned it down, saying Gambit was too much like Sawyer.
posted
It's possible that Magneto won't be the bad guy if there's another movie...after all, I think the experience of being human for a while would be pretty humbling to him.
I almost cried when Xavier died. I do think, however, that his whole position on controlling Jean's power was presented a little too harshly.
At any rate, the movie had pretty colors.
I was annoyed that Colossus didn't have a Russian accent. I loved Juggernaut. I have no idea who that androgynous individual was supposed to be, and until that, "Ladies?" part, I was wondering if it was a really skinny chick with no hips, or a dude with boobs. It was like Michael Jackson!
I actully liked a lot of the during-fights banter. And I maintain that honestly, I can't think of anyone else who'd be better to play Beast.
quote: I was annoyed that Colossus didn't have a Russian accent. I loved Juggernaut. I have no idea who that androgynous individual was supposed to be, and until that, "Ladies?" part, I was wondering if it was a really skinny chick with no hips, or a dude with boobs. It was like Michael Jackson!
THANK YOU!
I was annoyed to no end that he didn't have a Russian accent. And I couldn't tell if that chick was really a chick or not either until he said "Ladies."
I don't care that Jean died. She died more or less the same way in the originals, so, I think most people say it coming. Scott's death was pointless. I can't imagine she'd muster the control to stop herself from killing Logan, but the Professor and Scott were fair game. Scott was the one who saved her in the original.
Also, where was Psylocke in the movie? The credits list her, but I don't remember seeing her.
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So I don't know much about the comics, but does Jean come back after being killed? And I'm assuming that Mystique will get her powers back and join the good side now. Of course, I'm not sure how much the X-men could trust her. I would doubt her motivations, since her desire to do good would be only out of revenge on Magneto. And if Magneto did become good, then she would have to be evil still
Is it also true that they are making an X-men movie centered on Wolverine? That would be cool.
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I'm told that there is a clip after the credits that gives a hint as to the subject matter of the 4th film. Whether this indicates that it'll be Woverine centered or not I can't say, as I won't be seeing the movie until Monday.
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The clip after the credits doesn't really tell you what'll happen in a possible fourth movie. But it does open some doors.
As for a Wolverine movie, that's already greenlighted. It won't really be an Xmen movie per se, it's all about him. I'd be surprised if the X-Men were in it at all, or made anything more than a cameo.
I would say it'd be about his history as Weapon X, but they already glossed over that in the second movie, and they've gotten rid of a couple more of his bad guys since then. Maybe Omega Red? If so, I'd like to see Colossus involved in it, but I'm guessing they'd never do that.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Oooo I didn't wait until the end of the credits. But really? A fourth movie? I thought this movie was called the last stand for a reason.
I almost cried when Xavier died as well. He was incredibly awesome, and I don't see why he had to die. I won't say anymore about the movie because I never read the comics and I don't want to be considered a noob. All in all, though, I enjoyed it thouroughly.
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"I was however satisfied, and not surprised when Xavier was alive at the end. "
What?? He was?? Or do you mean Magneto? I was so sad when Xavier died, he was so awesome. What happened at the end of the credits?
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I forget who the doctor was that found Xavier after the credits? I only caught the tail end of that post-credits clip. I walked back into the theater looking for my sister, only to see that clip playing. I felt so much better after watching it, because I was sure Xavier hadn't died. I even told my brother he wasn't dead during the movie, and I was shocked when they left him dead. But I don't know the context for that clip. That female doctor or nurse looked familiar, but I can't place her.
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One sure fire way to tell when a movie will be the last of the series is when its bombs at the box office and the fans don't want to see another and there is little hope of making money on a sequel.
I think we can expect sequels.
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: "I was however satisfied, and not surprised when Xavier was alive at the end. "
What?? He was?? Or do you mean Magneto? I was so sad when Xavier died, he was so awesome. What happened at the end of the credits?
Remember the part where he's talking to the students about the man in a coma, and what would happen if you put the consciousness of a father of four into it?
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The movie dealt with a lot of important issues, almost so many that it didn't do any of them well. The most elegant, from my view, was Magneto's speech at the mutant community meeting. He was absolutely correct, btw. They can talk about citizens committees, volunteer registration and volunteer cures, then it would be volunteer immigration, then all of it would become forced as soon as there were a few mutant related human fatalities. The parallels with the Jewish organizations springing up, facilitating the Nazi solutions were striking.
Another issue that was broached was of authority. I'm reading this essay by Mortimer Adler where he makes a case for authority as distinct from tyranny. He sets freedom as submission to the right rule, and his right rule is reason, and for him, it is the primacy of reason, not unbridled choice, which constitutes freedom. He goes farther to say that that's where the authority of parents over children comes from, not biological right, but a clearer insight to reason. How does this relate to the movie you ask.
Prof. X bifurcated Jean's mind, exerting his authority over her choice, yet we are supposed to recognize Prof. X's decision as a necessary evil. That that's the evil which, to a large extent, propagates this entire mess and builds distrust is a move straight out ancient tragedy.
What do you all think about the Prof's decision to barricade Jean's mind without her input? Can his use of his authority be morally defensible. Who is to say if schizophrenia could have been avoided? And what do you think about parents sneaking kids ritalin or depressants?
quote:Prof. X bifurcated Jean's mind, exerting his authority over her choice, yet we are supposed to recognize Prof. X's decision as a necessary evil. That that's the evil which, to a large extent, propogates this entire mess and builds distrust is a move straight out ancient tragedy.
I don't think we are, but I could be bringing some stuff from the comics over. I don't get the impression that Xavier's side is supposed to be "right" in this decision.
quote:What do you all think about the Prof's decision to barricade Jean's mind without her input?
Horrible intrusion if that's what he did, but it's not totally clear to me that he did it without her permission. They glossed over this too quickly.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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By the way, will anyone catch on to the fact that a good superhero series could work now? The X-Men especially - the cast is complex enough for both the season-long plotlines and short arcs within the season (see Joss Wheedon for examples). Much of what I don't like about the X-Men movies would be fixed in a well-done series.
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Except there is this stupid bias that TV is a step down for actors. Certainly it is more hours for less pay.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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There was a crappy superhero/mutant show a few years back. I can't think of the title, but it may as well have been "Any Similiarity to the Xmen is Coincidental, Please Don't Sue Us."
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On the whole Xavier ethics thing, his being reborn in Leech's body (if themoviespoiler is correct about the post credits clip) seems a lot more troubling than what he did to Jean. You know, I just should have gone and seen this today. Grr.
It may be that the cure wore off because Xavier infiltrated Leech. Did he do it with that intention? Does that make it more ethical? Did the Leech character seem overly like Jason from X-Men 2 or not so much?
P.S. My bad, That's the kind of crappy analysis you get from not seeing the movie. Yeah, I meant coma-man and not Leech.
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The doctor's name was Moira Mactaggart. She's a doctor on Muir Island and does mutant genetics research.
One thing I found interesting was that they more or less gave Jean as the Pheonix the powers of Proteus, who had the power to do pretty much everything his mind could imagine. The only difference being that Proteus' effects were temporary, whereas Jean's were decidedly permanant.
For anyone who didn't stay, at the end of the credits, the man in the coma looked up at Moira and said "Hello Moira" and she paused a beat and said "Charles?" In other words, heeee'ssss baaaack.
quote:They did. It's called X-Men. It was released a few years ago. And then X2: Even More Wolverine
That's by far the thing that bothers me the most about the movies. Since when is Wolverine the main character? Certainly he's a fan favorite, but not THE main character. I've always been partial to Storm, Nightcrawler and Colossus.
Quite frankly, I'd be okay with all of them getting their own movies. There's enough side plots and side stories to sustain a dozen movies. Cyclops/Jean could have a movie dealing with Mr. Sinister. Magneto could have a half dozen movies, and hopefully they'd do a bit more character exploration to show his compassionate side, and do more on his friendship with Xavier.
Like Dag said, it would make a great television show. The show that someone mentioned above was Mutant X. It was amusingly bad. But I would love to see a live action television show of X-Men. There's enough information and background for a dozen seasons. And they could actually go into the depths of the characters that the movies leave void.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I'd like to see someone like Joss Whedon do a fourth movie to get the whole thing back on track.
Not necessarily Whedon himself, as I'm not sure I'd like what he'd do with the dialogue, but I trust that he'd be true to the characters, and to character development, which was more or less left on the side of the road in this last movie, except for what I'd almost call a couple shout outs to character depth, the movie was wholly lacking.
Also, I think it's ironic that this same situation was faced in the original X-Men by Stan Lee (the cartoon I think). There was a "cure" invented, though in that case it was a fake cure. Rogue was to be the first to get it, because she was depressed that she could never touch another human. But in the end she decided not to get it, that she'd rather remain who she was born to be. And then Warren went and got the treatment, and became a slave of Apocalypse (perfect segue to a fourth movie ruined). But in this case Rogue faced the same test and made the opposite choice.
Though I guess it's a moot point, since everyone "cured" is only temporarily fixed.
Here's a question: Omega Red is listed as uncredited on IMDB. Where the heck was he in the movie? or Psylock? Or Siryn?
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I liked it a ton, even where it differed from the comics.
Beast in the comics is always seeking a cure himself, and they rescued the boy whos power was to "cure" mutants of their powers, so that could still works.
I believe that while Charles made a lot of choices, Jean allowed him to do so...her powers outpaced his even as a child. She was not completely aware of her own power, but knew Xavier was helping her remain in control.
Xavier awakens in Coma man's body, as the nurse is the same I believe, and he was discussing that very thing with his class when Storm interrupted his lecture with the storm clouds.
We have yet to see how the "cure" affects mutant powers long term. I would guess that while it may be possible for mutants fo regain their powers it weakens them, perhaps for good.
Also, in the comics they make a good case for caging Pheonix, even with the moral issues raised, as left uncaged she would have destroyed the Earth.
I liked how the comics dealt with Phoenix better, and liked the resolution better there as well...but I think the movie was excellent overall.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Question: The tattoos...similar to Bishop's? I mean, granted he's from the future... I just felt like we missed a lot between 2 and 3. Sentinel? Mutant in the cabinet? Mutants supposedly accepted by humanity even though a pharmaceutical company went out of its way to create a "cure?"
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Parts of it had so much potential. Jean meeting Xavier and Magneto as a girl. Angel trying to amputate his wings as a little boy.
Mystique, who stole her brief scenes.
Jean's reintroduction.
Beast, who didn't get to do nearly enough.
The rest? Forgettable. If it weren't for that delightful surprise after the credits, I would've labeled this a "What If?" entry and dismissed it from my mind.
Now...I wanna see someone save this series.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Now maybe it's just because I'm not extremely knowledgeable on the topic of X-men, but do you guys really think that it's that terrible of a movie? I'm led to believe that most people here think that it's not even a decent movie compared to general movie standards. I thought it was a pretty dammed good flick. Sure it could've been better; and I understand that it must be annoying for you big X-men fans out there when this might be the last one- but by normal movie standards, I think it was quite above average, even if it is a tad worse compared to X2.
Also, aren't they making a Magneto spin-off also? I think it's supposedly going to take place when he's a teenager or something.
Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2005
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A Magneto spin-off from when he was a teenager?
That'd be horrible. Like Shindler's List meets the Brotherhood of Evil.
pH -
I got the feeling that the tattoos were just supposed to be a sort of mark of pride, whereas Bishop and Shard's tattoos were virtual scarlet letters, it's why they were both M's.
Puffy -
I think you've highlighted the main problem with this particular movie. Too many cooks, so to speak. They put in so many characters and possible subplots in one movie that no one issue really had a chance to seek fruition. Rogue's story got a start at the beginning, then we don't see her again until the end. Might as well of just cut her out altogether, there was enough anxiety over the cure elsewhere, and that whole "I don't want to be a mutant, it ruins my life" angle could have easily been put on any other character. Rogue was useless, which just makes it all the more pointless to have changed her character into it's child form.
I felt like Mystique was there just to be bitchy for most of it, and other than that, was just a pawn to highlight how committed and cold Magneto was when it came to his crusade.
Beast I thought had a surprisingly large role in the movie, though I would have loved to see a lot more from him.
If they do make another one, I think:
1. It should focus on a smaller amount of characters, Wolverine not being among them. He's had more than enough exploration and screen time.
2. Do a different nemesis than Magneto. Or, if they are going to do Magneto, go into his mind a bit more. He goes through different phases in his character. From genocidal "kill all the humans" to Asteroid M and just wanting to be left alone. All the while, he's Xavier's friend, they just disagree on the methods of how to achieve a basic goal: Mutant freedom/liberation. In many ways, it's the world's treatment of Xavier that fuels his anger towards the humans of the world. He's so much more complicated (and nicer to Xavier) than we're seeing on screen.
3. Consider doing a duology or trilogy that takes place in a much shorter span of time. How many years were to have elapsed between the second and third movie? Like someone said above, way too much happened in between, characters were randomly killed off and new ones added. It was jarring, and not at all seamless. They should think about a specific enemy, a specific plot with fleshed out subplots, and then break it into three pieces, instead of trying to jam three movies worth of material into one movie. Fans will be okay with seeing a 2 and a half hour X-Men movie, there's no reason they need to be so short. CGI is getting better, and cheaper, to do all the time.
I felt like especially in this last movie, it was using fantastic stuff but more or less ripping out the heart of the matter in favor of the whole "woohoo, look at the cool fights!" thing. There's a lot more to it, and I'd like to see that added back in.
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quote:Beast in the comics is always seeking a cure himself, and they rescued the boy whos power was to "cure" mutants of their powers, so that could still works.
In Wheedon's X-title, Wolverine threatens to kill Beast if he takes the cure - and he pretty much means it.
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If the movies were being made for the comic book fans, the movie would be about as successful as Serenity and there would have been no sequels. The chemistry between the lead actors is what makes it a blockbuster, and so the same lead actors will dominate this and future productions. Sorry. I know I'm part of the problem.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Whee, that was fun! If it were my story, I would have had Jean kill Scott in that hoo-hah at her house, and Professor X at the big showdown at the end, before being killed in turn by Wolverine. I think that would have made the deaths a lot more dramatic and meaningful, instead of all three feeling sort of... eh. But still, it was a fun ride, and we enjoyed it.
On a side note, did anyone else's audience erupt into HUGE whoops and cheers at the Snakes on a Plane teaser?? I've never seen an audience respond like that to a trailer, ever! It was hilarious. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: I believe that while Charles made a lot of choices, Jean allowed him to do so...her powers outpaced his even as a child.
I thought that in the conversation between Wolverine and Xavier, Xavier make it clear that he did not consult Jean before erecting her blocks. The hard faced little girl at the beginning of this movie is a lot darker than the Jean Grey we've seen in the first two movies. It seems to me that Xavier didn't protect Jean from herself as much as he created two selves and kept the latter at bay.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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One thing that bothered me about the fight at the end between the Brotherhood and the X-Men was how the majority of the Brotherhood mutants seemed to have no powers. All they would do is just run at the X-Men pointlessly and get stabbed by Wolverine or hit by Beast. Most of them didn't even try to fight. The X-Men really aren't that powerful, they shouldn't of been able to kill so many super-powered mutants. And some of the fighitng banter annoyed me with its corny-ness. Best and worst part of the movie was when Magneto defended Xavier to Pyro, It was nice to see Xavier be defended but Pyro was one of my facorite characters until he said that about Xavier. I thought he was just a rebellious kid, but after that I realized he's also stupid.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Weird. People in my audience also whooped and cheered at the Snakes on a Plane teaser. As soon as the word "Snakes" appeared on screen, half the audience yelled "Snakes on a Plane!" before the rest of the title appeared. Am I missing some hype on this movie?
And from what I've gathered on this thread, Prof. X probably went into someone else's body? If so, any sequels that involve him would actually be a different actor? Or did the body he inhabit somehow turn into Professor X's body? And does this mean he will be able to walk, since he's in a different body?
Posts: 684 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: One thing that bothered me about the fight at the end between the Brotherhood and the X-Men was how the majority of the Brotherhood mutants seemed to have no powers. All they would do is just run at the X-Men pointlessly and get stabbed by Wolverine or hit by Beast. Most of them didn't even try to fight. The X-Men really aren't that powerful, they shouldn't of been able to kill so many super-powered mutants. And some of the fighitng banter annoyed me with its corny-ness. Best and worst part of the movie was when Magneto defended Xavier to Pyro, It was nice to see Xavier be defended but Pyro was one of my facorite characters until he said that about Xavier. I thought he was just a rebellious kid, but after that I realized he's also stupid.
I think that most of the Brotherhood WEREN'T that powerful. Chick With Labret Piercing and Push-Up Bra said something along those lines at the community meeting.
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Yeah, she said only Magneto and Pyro were lvl 3 mutants...what ever that means
Also...the X-men train together to fight as a team...constantly....the Pawns (as Magneto calls them) have no training what so ever. Think regular grunts vs. special forces....
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
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This movie completely dumped the previous two's focus on character in favor of a retarded plot.
Rogue barely appeared in the movie, when she was one of the most important and interesting characters in 1-2, and her whole thing with Bobby resolved itself in the worst possible way, entirely contrary to the whole issue of her learning to live with her powers.
They totally ruined the whole Phoenix thing. Magneto and Jean Grey were basically there to both take on the same role in the final fight: stand around while their minions are needlessly killed by the far-weaker X-men, then tear shit up at the end when they could've done it in the first place. Also, it was ridiculous that Prof X spent about 10 seconds explaining the nature of the Phoenix, and the topic was never broached again.
Every other line was a cliche a la "We stand together."
And on a related note, there were so many contrived scenes whose only point was for the X-men to make inspirational speeches about how they shouldn't give up, when there was no reason in the first place for them to give up. "Maybe we should close the school, now that Prof X is dead." Um... why in the hell would you do that?
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I thoroughly enjoyed it. Maybe it's because this movie started covering bases that I'm totally unfamiliar with in the comics, but despite the sickeningly saccharine moments and their trying to cover way, way too much ground, I enjoyed this movie more than either of the ones before it.
It's weird. In retrospect (and in reading this thread), I recognize that there were a LOT of problems with the movie, but...they just didn't bother me while I was in the theater.
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It was a great stupid action flick. The first two X-Men were great action flicks WITH character, plot, and thought.
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quote: I also didn't get why Jean had to die...couldn't he have stabbed her with those mutant cure needles?
She would have obliterated it, or worse, hit him with it.
quote: I can't imagine she'd muster the control to stop herself from killing Logan, but the Professor and Scott were fair game. Scott was the one who saved her in the original.
Uh... she seemed to be trying pretty hard to kill Logan, she did get down to his skeleton.
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I find myself having like a thousand things to say on this topic. First off I dont understand why so many people are saying that they didnt like this movie. I thought that considering they had a limited amount of time that they accomplished alot. THey subtitly included a lot of major characters and storylines from the comic books without making it exactly the same and outright saying things like hey this is a sentinal. They included subtitly a sentinal, the Morlocks, and im sure other things as well that i didnt pick on.
As to all that, the black woman whith the speed was Collisto the leader of a group of mutants known as the Morlocks. Then never said it but given the setting they were put in during the meeting it was clear that that group of grungy looking week mutants were the morlocks. Especially since it seemed Collisto was there leader.
As to Magnetos and Jeans roles in the final fight they made sense to me. Magneto wouldnt risk himself until he absolutely had too. He would let his "pawns" die first. And Phoenix never really seemed to care one way or another about magneto's cause she was just tagging along. SHe only engaged the fight when she herself became threatened and then she killed people on every side of the fight.
As to Logan getting to her they state that she is a level five mutant but never say what Logan is. He could be a level four or five and not have the problems Jean did because his powers are internal healing abilities not external sychic force. His healing powers were obviously powerfull enough to fight back her mental attacks.
As to the next movie i think that it will be about apocolypse for quite a few reasons. In the old storylines there is a time period where Magneto joined and even led the Xmen for a time. I believe that his turning human for a time will have softened his views and he will join the xmen not stay the nemesis.
I believe that Apocolypse will be the enemy in the next movie. THe reason I believe this is why else bring Angel into the third movie. He played a huge role in the apocolypse storyline, first as one of Apocolypses four horsemen and then loosing his wings he became Archangel.
ONe thing that pissed me off was the entrances. Beast leapt in, Collosus jumped in, Wolverine did that slide in thing, but bobby jumped in with Kitty. THat made me so made because one of the coolest things about the Ice man was his Ice slide entrance. He would come in like snowboarding on a slide of ice that he would form infront of him as he went.
Also I felt they underplayed Storms poweres in all thee movies. The closest theyve come to her full potential was in this movie when she flew above the line and struck into the enemy forces with repeated lightning attacks.
Overall I thought it was an awesome movie.
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