quote:Fat people don't have a right to be thought of in any given way.
I'm not saying that fat people have any rights at all. I'm saying that if you teach your kids that being fat is wrong, you are in fact -- almost by definition -- discriminating against fat people.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "discriminating". Or by "wrong", for that matter. I teach Tova that being fat is undesirable. But barring any actions taken against someone who is fat, I can't see how that constitutes discrimination in any practical sense.
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This is the site I've been using since January to keep me on track with my calories and keep me motivated. It follows the same basic idea as Weight Watchers, which is a) keep track of how much you're eating, b) eat fewer calories, and c) try to exercise when you can. Except, unlike WW, it's free!
It's very reasonable, very achievable, and there's a great community for support and information. It's not a miracle diet, and it doesn't have any quick-fix easy answers, but if you're tired of being fat and don't know what to do about it, check this out.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Zeugma, that only works if you are going from 4000 to 1500 calories a day. If you're going from 2500 to 1600 a day (much more likely), then it won't do much of anything without exercise, and it definitely won't produce dramatic results.
Amen. I don't have a huge calorie intake, and I can have a yogurt for breakfast, a can of tuna with lemon juice on it for lunch and another yogurt for dinner, and still not lose weight. If I don't go to the gym, I won't lose weight, period. Cutting down on food to any significant degree from what I eat now just makes me weak and tired.
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Well, if you've managed to go a month eating only yogurt, tuna, and yogurt again every single day, and still not lost a single pound, then a) you have incredible willpower, because that sounds awful and b) your body needs to have a chat with our friend Mr. Physics. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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True kat, but i would venture a guess that most overweight people are closer to 4000 than 2000. I'd find it very hard to believe that someone could remain obese if they were living on a diet of 2000 calories composed of only complex carbs, protein, and healthy fats, even without exercise.
Of course, the healthier way to lose would be to ramp down from 4000 by increments of 500 over many months until you hit 2000. Cutting calories in half suddenly could slow the metabolism as the body enters 'starvation mode.'
The hardest part about body transformations (putting on muscle or losing fat) is patience. 1 pound of fat a week is actually pretty good, and will result in 50 lbs a year. But in a world of 'lose 30 lbs in 9 days' advertisements, this process can seem slow and excruciating I'm sure.
I know with my muscle gains it's been like that. I eat about 3500-4000 calories a day, spread over 6 meals. I'm sure people out there think that's sounds wonderful 'to eat whatever you want,' but honestly it's not the case. It's gross to eat that much, and it's all low calorie/high quality food like chicken breasts, ww bread, eggs, etc. To put it in perspective, 4000 calories about like 15 chicken breasts, 10 slices of bread, and 14 eggs. I work out at the gym for an hour to an hour and a half a day, mostly weights but enough cardio to keep me from getting to pudgy. All that just to gain on average about 1.5 lbs a week in muscle.
Losing weight for an endomorph (someone more genetically inclined to hold their weight) would be much the same battle, except less on the weights and tons more cardio. Instead of eating until they feel like they're going burst it would be being a bit more hungry. The point is it's not easy or quick. It's a lifestyle.
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If you go to McDonald's and order a Big Mac, large fries, and large (regular) Coke, you're eating more than 1500 calories in that single meal. Add a dessert or super-size it and you're well over 2000 calories. In one meal!
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AND, since most of that "meal" was nutritionally non-existant, not to mention carried THREE addictive substances, your body is going to be crying for food again (most likely fast food) in a matter of hours.
Honestly, when I think about obesity in America, I'm filled with seething hatred.... directed not at the people, but at the fast-food megacorporations and the billions of dollars they spend blasting us with marketing convincing us that this is a normal way to eat.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Up until this summer, I would have told you that I was one of those people who could not gain or lose weight. For the past 10 years or so, I've been the same weight give or take about about 3 points. Doesn't matter what I eat (too much or too little), how much I exercised, etc. Always about 15-20 pounds overweight.
Then I moved to the midwest to do a summer internship. There are no kosher restaurants here. No kosher meat (other than hot dogs). No huge potlucks. Very little cheese. Needless to say, a radical diet shift. And in two months, I lost 10 pounds without even knowing it.
I think for some people (like me), it may take so many changes in combination, that people try a few and get discouraged.
I was shocked that I had lost weight. I honestly thought that my metabolism just adjusted to the amount of food I ate, no matter what I did. When I called my sister and told her that I had lost 10 pounds (I didn't know until yesterday, I haven't had access to a scale), she said, "Well, Chanie, there's no halvah there..."
Posts: 159 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Zeugma- Thanks, I meant to make that point about fast food calories but forgot. I appreciate that.
Honestly it makes me mad too. IMO fast food companies are the new tobacco companies of the 21st century.
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But if you decide to have a Premium grilled chicken sandwich, and a caesar salad (no chicken), then it's only 510 calories for the meal. Yay! (If you skip the soda, which you should do anyway, if you're trying to lose weight--diet or no.)
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: If you go to McDonald's and order a single hamburger, large fries, and large (regular) Coke, you're eating more than 1500 calories in that single meal. Add a dessert or super-size it and you're well over 2000 calories. In one meal!
You're either exagerating or using incorrect information; the McDonald's website (which is verifiably accurate) lists a hamburger, large fries and large Coke at 1,140 calories. Also, Large is the largest available size.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Exactly Katarain! It's all about the choices you make. The biggest thing I had to get my head around when I really started getting serious about this was the realization that you don't have to deprive yourself or stop eating anything you enjoy, you just have to make better choices. If you can go to McDonalds and get only the plain chicken sandwich and plain caesar salad (some of their dressing can add over 150 calories), you can absolutely eat there and still lose weight.
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On my particular plan, I focus on limiting the carbs I eat, so if I ordered that sandwich, I'd have to throw some of the bread away. That's okay. And my plan is based on my insulin resistance, not the low-carb hype. It's what I learned makes it possible for me to actually lose weight. (Not that I'm allowed to eat other non-carb foods in unlimited amounts--only if I'm genuinely hungry.)
I also don't agree that junk food is cheaper. Good for you food is cheap, you just have to cook it. And if you manage your life correctly, most people could find time to cook it--even if that means getting a crock pot. (There are, of course, exceptions.. there are always exceptions.)
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: AND, since most of that "meal" was nutritionally non-existant, not to mention carried THREE addictive substances, your body is going to be crying for food again (most likely fast food) in a matter of hours.
Honestly, when I think about obesity in America, I'm filled with seething hatred.... directed not at the people, but at the fast-food megacorporations and the billions of dollars they spend blasting us with marketing convincing us that this is a normal way to eat.
Why not expend that hatred at the stupid people who believe what they're told in advertisements without checking into it for themselves? If you're willing to take a TV ad at face value, you deserve the consequences.
McDonald's has done an amazing job of offering healthy alternatives and being extremely forthright about the nutrition information of their products. Granted, they probably wouldn't be if they didn't have to, but they're way the heck better about it than, say, Quizno's.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Next time I'll get my numbers from the actual site instead of howstuffworks.com.
However, I also don't think a burger, large fries, and large Coke is at all an "outrageous" meal at McDonald's. How many people add a dessert or get something like a Double Quarter Pounder w/Cheese (730 calories) or.... holy frazola, this has to be a typo.... a 10 piece "premium chicken strips" for 1270 calories?? How big are those things? Or what about getting "creamy ranch sauce" on your sandwich for 200 calories?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: Next time I'll get my numbers from the actual site instead of howstuffworks.com.
However, I also don't think a burger, large fries, and large Coke is at all an "outrageous" meal at McDonald's. How many people add a dessert or get something like a Double Quarter Pounder w/Cheese (730 calories) or.... holy frazola, this has to be a typo.... a 10 piece "premium chicken strips" for 1270 calories?? How big are those things? Or what about getting "creamy ranch sauce" on your sandwich for 200 calories?
I'm really confused: does anyone actually think there's such a thing as a healthy hamburger, or healthy french fries? These things are bad for you, period; the hamburgers served ANYWHERE are just as bad for you, if not worse. McDonald's isn't attempting to make it sound like eating a double quarter pounder is a healthy choice.
FYI: The standard serving size for the premium chicken strips is 3 pieces, which is equivilant to 10 chicken mcnuggets; the 10 piece is the family size.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I crave Taco Bell foods. They're so cheap, but oh so good. My hubby hates for me to get fast food, though, because of the quality. (Not because of my size.) So I haven't had any in moooooooooonths, maybe even a year by now.
Can we ban those advertisements? They're mocking me!
I'm kidding, but on a similar topic... you can get inspired from some of those advertisements. We've made 3 dishes at home inspired by fast food commercials. Since we don't trust the quality of food made by most teenagers (and you really don't know what sort of ones work there), this was a better solution. We've made the spicy chicken sandwich from Burger King with the spicy chicken, jalepenos, and pepper jack cheese. That was good. We've made the chicken sandwich advertised by McDonalds as only having pickles on it. That was good. We made the mashed potatoes/corn/chicken/gravy/cheese bowls from KFC. Those were good. Not particularly healthy, but healthier than the fast food version.
And we can alter things at will to match our particular dietary needs.
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posted
I'm actually intrigued by another question: IS there a stigma against the excessively thin? I know there's some jealousy, and I know people who are assumed to be bulimic are of course the subject of tongue-wagging, but I don't otherwise see it.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I'm pretty darn thin, and I've never been stigmatized for it. I get the usual "I hate you" comments from people who are jealous, and I wish I could gain some weight, but in my opinion that doesn't come close to stigmatization or discrimination.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:I think a lot of people don't realize how slowly most people lose weight. Half a pound to a pound a week for someone who is doing everything they've been told to do lies entirely in the normal rate for weight loss. People setting unrealistic goals and then losing hope and/or declaring that they just can't shed the weight happens an awful lot, I'd imagine.
This needed to be re-quoted. It's extremely important. Most people see all those ads about "lose weight quick" schemes and think they aren't doing anything if they only lost one pound a week. For a person 100 pounds overweight, they don't want to hear it will probably take two years or more to take off that weight properly. That is, with diet and exercise and losing about one pound per week. You also have to allow for plateaus, where you may go several weeks or even more than a month without losing anything, unless you make an additional change.
The good news is that adding in a fitness regimen can really help, because as you build muscle you will burn more calories and increasing your workout regimen will help you over those plateaus. But if you're doing it right, it's still going to take a long time. And that's discouraging when you look at it at first, until you realize that hey, those two years are going to pass whether you're losing weight or not. I was discouraged when I first looked into finishing my degree, but my husband encouraged me by saying hey, even if it takes five years because you're going part-time and you don't graduate until you're almost forty, at least you'll be almost forty with a degree instead of without one.
But it's hard. I've done it, I lost fifty pounds once but it took a year to do it. Then I got pregnant with twins and put it all back on. *sigh* And didn't lose it after the babies came, which is why I'm in this situation today. I don't begrudge it though, my doctor told me that studies show a direct correlation between early weight gain and total weight gain in mothers of multiples and the birth weight of the babies. My twins were born full term weight and healthy. Their health was worth me gaining the weight. But my health is also worth me losing it.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm actually intrigued by another question: IS there a stigma against the excessively thin? I know there's some jealousy, and I know people who are assumed to be bulimic are of course the subject of tongue-wagging, but I don't otherwise see it.
Oh, there is. I'm not excessively thin, nor was I in middle/high school, but I was always pretty thin. And I also ate a lot of small meals. Since none of my peers ever saw me eat a lot in one sitting, they made fun of me for being anorexic. One of my friends once tried to have me committed for "anorexia athletica" because I liked to run a lot and, in her mind, was not eating.
posted
I can only speak for myself. I don't see myself as having any problems with the excessively thin--if they're anorexic, I'm likely to feel sympathetic for them. I don't see that there's a stigma, but maybe they feel differently, and would be more apt to judge whether there is one.
I'm not really jealous, though--not all the time, anyway. I think I'd rather be in the middle. I don't want to be skinny. And if I can't be in the middle, I'd rather be on the bigger side.
So I tell myself. Perhaps the reality is different, but I'm trying to be honest with myself and answer truthfully, and that's the answer I came up with. If it's false, I accept no responsibility for my strange psyche.
It could be that I simply have no experience being skinny, so choose what I know over what I don't.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: do you also think it is all right to discriminate against people based on the religion they choose to follow?
Well, yeah...
Kat, You wouldn't believe me if I told you what the demands on my time are, but I use most of my lunch break to do something healthy, and I think that most people could do the same.
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I think the thing about excessively thin people has a lot to do with how natural it is for their body to be like that. You can usually tell by how healthy someone looks if they are just naturally thin, or are excessive with diet and exercise, or have an eating disorder. Also there are clues with how they treat their bodies and how comfortable they are in them.... a person who looks like a walking skeleton wearing clothes designed to show off fit, curvy bodies....ew. But someone really, really skinny who wears more "normal" or "appropriate" clothes won't bother me, except maybe jealousy that they look good
Edit: woah, when I started typing, Tom's was the last post!
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If you're male Tom, I really think there is. Of course, I don't think it approaches the level of the obesity stigma, but I think it's real and there.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I eat so very little compare to my wife. Actually I overeat and she over over over eats - probably 3 times what I eat. She does walk everywhere tho.
However, I eat fast food, diet coke, junk food as well as her cooking. She eats veggies, fruits, and only home made food. But still....she has to be packing twice the calories I eat a day. She is thin, I am fat (6ft and 235lbs).
First time I went to a buffet with her, I was sure she was bulimic. I waited for her to go to the restroom and throw up--she didn't. She did eat 5 pieces of cake after 4 huge plates of salad, fruit, veggies, and fish.
Anyway...
We went to Japan for a month. I walked at least an hour a day. I cut back my diet drink to almost none. Every morning we had fresh veggies-as in picked from their farm that morning. We also had tons of tofu.
All my meals were healthy and tasted so good. Lunches were small and dinners were home made. We went to an occasional meat buffet, but I ate less then anyone in her family.
After a month I still weigh 235!! I am (was) good looking and feel good about myself, but it is my diet coke gut I hate. It makes me uglier and out of breath. Plus it looks suspiciously like a gut that precedes diabetes.
I didn't loose a pound in Japan. I know what I have to do: eat right and exercise more, but the trip to Japan was a reality shocker to how hard it will be.
**At least I didn't gain weight!
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: Good for you food is cheap, you just have to cook it.
No, it's really not. Fresh produce and whole grain bread are more expensive than boxed mac&cheese and white bread. Worth it, yes. But it's a real problem for people on severely limited budgets. And for people who depend on food banks and pantries it's almost impossible in many towns to get healthy food. You take what people donate.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: Good for you food is cheap, you just have to cook it.
No, it's really not. Fresh produce and whole grain bread are more expensive than boxed mac&cheese and white bread. Worth it, yes. But it's a real problem for people on severely limited budgets. And for people who depend on food banks and pantries it's almost impossible in many towns to get healthy food. You take what people donate.
Considering how startlingly easy it is to get food stamps and how much money they give you, I have to disagree. I'm having trouble imagining a situation in which you cannot qualify for food stamps but cannot afford to buy healthy food at the grocery store.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Where can you still get food stamps? *blink* I didn't realize they still existed.
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It's worth noting, by the way, that healthy food is almost ALWAYS either more time-consuming or more expensive than unhealthy food.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: It's worth noting, by the way, that healthy food is almost ALWAYS either more time-consuming or more expensive than unhealthy food.
Low quality is almost always cheaper than high quality.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zeugma: Well, if you've managed to go a month eating only yogurt, tuna, and yogurt again every single day, and still not lost a single pound, then a) you have incredible willpower, because that sounds awful and b) your body needs to have a chat with our friend Mr. Physics.
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: It's not easy to get food stamps.
Where do you live? I've admittedly got only anecdotal evidence to go on, but I've got a lot of it: over 50 individual cases from four different states (Washington, Hawaii, New York and Ohio).
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I admit to being biased. I was denied at a time in my life when I desperately needed them, because of a stupid rule.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:I'm skinny and I don't do this. I'm not skinny because of some sort of "virtue," I'm skinny because I can't gain significant amounts of weight regardless of my diet or exercise regimen.
quote:That said, I've met and ate with twinky. He eats at least 3 times as much as I do. I'm 20 - 30 pounds overweight, eat relatively well and get a decent amount of exercise. So while I have no doubt he could gain weight, with effort and training, I wouldn't want to foot the food bill for the massive amounts of calories he'd need to consume.
Since it sounds like you've had your lipids checked, I probably don't even have to ask this, but how sure are you that you don't have a hyperactive thyroid?
I used to eat massive amounts of food and not gain a single pound. Turns out their was a reason for this!
I was 158 pounds, and while that doesn't sound that low, I was really pretty skinny (in body fat percentage). Especially considering the massive amounts of calories I consumed. Something in the range of 4,000-5,000 I would guess.
Of course, when they killed my thyroid, I gained thirty pounds in under 2 months, eventually up to 195lbs before it levelled off.
Jeez, that's 37 pounds. In about three months. Well, it was worth it, but still, yikes.
I've lost about 8 pounds of that over the last year, but I really should try to lose more.
I'm going to the gym tonight, but I did go to Old Chicago for lunch, so both good and bad today.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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For a household of four to be eligible for food stamps their gross monthly income must be under $2,097. They also may not have assets worth more than $2000, including bank accounts. If you own your home it does not count toward that $2000, but the value of your car(s) over $4650 does.
And if that family of four qualifies, they may receive up to $506 minus 30% of the net household income per month. (Net income is gross minus a standard deduction and some child care and medical expenses.)
I wouldn't want to try to support a family of four on those numbers.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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The rule was one that requires students to have a job of 20/hrs a week to be eligible. I was a graduate student, trying desperately to get a job--a FULL-TIME one. Since I didn't have a job, I was denied. No way to appeal. I had a mini-breakdown in the lady's office and walked out. It is not a happy memory. I couldn't even manage to drive home.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Generally, I think it's cheaper (with the exception of produce) to eat healthy, although definately more time consuming.
Take 4 kids out for 1 cheeseburger, 1 md fry, 1 coke: ~$4.00 each=$16.
or
Make 2 cups (dry rice) for $.30, Four grilled 4oz chicken breasts for $5, frozen vegetables $1.50, 8oz milk each $.60. Total cost: $7.40. Less than half the cost of the meal, and possible to cook in 30 minutes. 550 quality, filling, calories each.
If they're really working a minimum wage job where they're so poor they're struggling for food money, etc, wouldn't half an hour of their time which saves them 8 after tax dollars on just 1 meal be VERY worth it?
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
When I originally said that eating healthy was cheaper, I meant as opposed to fast food. Fast food is NOT cheap. Bao's example is right on. That healthy food is much cheaper than fast food. And really, the price of the rice is comparable to the box of mac and cheese you can get.
And if you buy in bulk and freeze stuff, you can cut costs even more.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Make 2 cups (dry rice) for $.30, Four grilled 4oz chicken breasts for $5, frozen vegetables $1.50, 8oz milk each $.60. Total cost: $7.40. Less than half the cost of the meal, and possible to cook in 30 minutes. 550 quality, filling, calories each.
It's worth noting that frozen vegetables and dry rice are mainly starches (corn, lima beans, peas, rice, etc.) Those aren't quality calories, either. But I'm just nit-picking.
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and b) your body needs to have a chat with our friend Mr. Physics. 
