posted
Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I'm trying to decide which is funnier--Scott's poem or Bob's response. Until we figure it out we won't know who won the thread!
I'm sorry, but Jim-Me won the thread waaaay back with the Peter reference. I literally laughed out loud at that.
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posted
I don't think that it was the editing that he took offense at Pelegius. Rather, I think it was that you failed to acknowledge your edit in the subsequent post directed at Lisa. You acted like the meaning should have been perfectly clear from the start, when in fact it was not.
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
Then have the honesty to recognize that the post you were responding to was written before you edited. Say, "Oh, thanks for the heads-up. I left out the word 'am'. Let me go edit that." Instead, you changed it, and then responded to my post as though the "am" had been there in the first place.
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posted
Even with the word am missing, the meaning of the post was clear, if not gramaticly correct. I believed then, although I may have been wrong, that it was the phrasing "I am thine indeed," with or without the verb that annoyed you.
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posted
Actually, I thought then and think now, that Lisa was not confused by the post but was using it as yet another chance to air her personal animosity towards me, and indeed, towards all non-Israelis. Yes, Lisa, I am sure that I would never have made that typo were I educated in Israel, just as I would instantly see the light and begin to understand politics from your perspective.
Or, to rephrase, I would have reacted very differently has anyone other than Lisa, with whom I have a long and extremely unpleasant history that has stretched across three different fora.
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posted
Now that's interesting. You managed to take your insult toward Lisa and Israeli education and turn it into a slight against you. That's masterful, (to the degree that the devil is a genius, anyway).
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
You might also want to remove the superfluous of in the last sentence of your first post. It's a common error when you try to avoid stranding the preposition and then revert to normal English halfway through the sentence.
I fought the urge to nitpick that for a full nineteen hours (yes, I had nightmares about it).
Karl, I certainly did not mean to deride Israeli education, only the viewpoint often presented to me that only Israelis are enlightened, and to disagree with one is to be wrong. Lisa has said something to this effect, and a poster named Hannibal was quite explicit about it.
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quote: Lisa, I am sure that I would never have made that typo were I educated in Israel, just as I would instantly see the light and begin to understand politics from your perspective.
Nice use of the straw man. I applaud your insight and argumentative skills. My respect for you has changed. I bow in awe and wonder Lord Pel.
posted
Sweet llamas of the Bahamas! I finally see why people have given up on you here. It's not just your writing, Pelegius. You really are insufferably snotty, and unable to acknowledge any fault, even when you're nose is rubbed in it like a naughty puppy.
Good luck with that attitude.
Lisa quoted 3 words from your post that make no sense. You corrected it so that it made sense, insulted her, then later claimed she would have attacked the same phrase with or with out the missing "am".
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Thank you, I shall.
Karl, I certainly did not mean to deride Israeli education, only the viewpoint often presented to me that only Israelis are enlightened, and to disagree with one is to be wrong. Lisa has said something to this effect, and a poster named Hannibal was quite explicit about it.
My point is that your pride is so vast that faced with the dishonesty of editing your post (and seeming to pretend you didn't*), rather than appologize for your part in the misunderstanding, you choose to further attack the offended party, dragging in things that have absolutely no bearing on the issue at hand. An appology was in order and you chose an additional insult and a smokescreen, apparently hoping that since so many people disagree with Lisa's political views they won't care that you are rude and dishonest when dealing with her. I care. And I've refrained from jumping on the "P's style sucks" bandwagon. I don't care so much about your style of writing, but your conduct is pretty low class.
(* I say "seeming to pretend you didn't" so as to acknowledge the possibility that you are that socially blind, and not being purposely devious.)
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I responded to Lisa's views in a manner indicative of the two years of near-constant strife between us. She has called me everything from puerile to anti-SemItic, this is no longer, in any way, a political debate. And yet, if I am to be defensive, I am accused "hoping that since so many people disagree with Lisa's political views they won't care that you are rude and dishonest when dealing with her." As opposed to you, who clearly hope that so many people dislike me that they will not care that you rudely attacked me. I fear you may be right on that count, but you remain wrong in your charges.
The fact of the matter, which you naturally ignore because it does not suit your purposes, is that Lisa did not give any indication of the fact that she found the post difficult to comprehend because of the verb, she instead called unreadable, which is usually an attack on style unless otherwise noted. Seeing that I had made a mistake in grammar I corrected it and then defended my style. I maintain the justifiable nature of my actions, although it is doubtless of no concern to those who seek out opportunities to attack me. Nothing I have ever said has even been of any effect to certain members, Lisa by far the most prominent among them, and I can see no indication that this shall change now.
I wonder if it as ever occurred to you, sitting there and accusing me of a thousand faults with your every word dripping with acrid hatred how you appear? You have called me naïve, and I am perhaps naïve, you have called me presumptuous, and I am perhaps presumptuous, I have been called proud and am doubtless soyou have called me many foul things and they may all be true, for you are an honoralble man. One thing is certain and I pray that it is evident to all who read my words— I have never borne the ill will towards any person that has been constantly thrown at me by my detractors.
Here I stand as myself and as no other, assailed from all sides and yet I shall not bend to pressures, however great. In the end I may also snap, although I hope to weather the storm, "there are dreams that cannot be and there are storms we cannot weather."
What bitter irony it appears to me that my thread on the inherent nobility of humanity has been turned into yet another breeding pool of malice for humanity to drag itself into the primordial swamp, whence it came.
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posted
There are only two explanations about Pel's behavior that I can imagine. Either he is pulling us along to see how far we will go (and he is a Master Manipulator) or he really doesn't/can't get it.
Either way, it is a waste of time.
The discussions to help and assits him have been poignant, thought out, and many times nuetral.
He is a waste of time. I look forward to the day I see his posts quickly fall off the page.
As for me, this is it. I really am done.
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posted
It is easy, is it not, to ignore what bothers you? I ignored the malice directed towards me for some time, until it grew within me so that it erupted as a vast volcano, sending fire and ash into the cold and impersonal night.
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posted
Sorry to interrupt all of the bickering, but I'm still waiting to hear how the new theology isn't just generic monotheism with a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in.
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posted
"Either he is pulling us along to see how far we will go (and he is a Master Manipulator) or he really doesn't/can't get it." Or perhaps he is a human being with human emotion who bleeds when he is pricked and angers when he was wrong. Hath I not a heart in your eyes, hath I no soul? Even the smallest fox, when caught in the snares of life will chew through his own leg rather than remain trapped by the malice of humanity, for the fox has long ago learnt to stand alone and has no pack to rescue him.
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posted
I didn't know you has such a history with Lisa. But still, you're wrong. The sentence was unreadable because it was missing a verb, which you quickly edited in [edit:(see, this is how it's done, you git!) after it was pointed out to you], then pretended you hadn't. Get over yourself.
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Or, to rephrase, I would have reacted very differently has anyone other than Lisa, with whom I have a long and extremely unpleasant history that has stretched across three different fora.
posted
For the sake of contrition, let me say that I have done the same thing as Pelegius.
When I was new to the forum, sometime in 2003, I was arguing something with someone, possibly Rakeesh. I edited a comment, and Rakeesh busted me for it. I'm not sure what I did next--I think I just admitted to it and moved on.
But I am sure I didn't have a pearl-clutching swoon-fest of a soliloquy over multiple posts involving honor, malice, volcanoes, a fox, and a pack of wolves out to get me. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Yes, Pelegius is fast moving from someone wortht talking through his issues to someone worth egging on to see what dramatic sweeping complaint he'll make next.
I wonder if he's related to Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings?
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posted
so I'm starting to manage to turn off my brain when I see things posted by Pel now... if you just look at it and laugh the whole thing is quite humerous, though it definately requires an almost complete lack of higher brain function to do so...
so I'd advise the rest of you, just turn off your brains and have fun with these posts, it's either that or force yourself to have a brain anurism which is frankly not worth it.
btw, I'm still waiting for an explanation of what you were trying to say with the initial post, what kind of response you expected/expect etc...
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posted
btw Pel, if you could refrain from quoting Les Mis at me, it offends my senses and insults such a great work.
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: *snort*
Where's you sense of dramatic urgency, Morbo?
Why, how dare you sir! Cannot even a fly caught in a spider's web forego drama for clarity's sake, ere he's devoured? Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?!
My seconds will call on you to make arrangements!
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quote:I wonder if it as ever occurred to you, sitting there and accusing me of a thousand faults with your every word dripping with acrid hatred how you appear?
Um, this seems to be in response to my post, but reason demands I second guess myself. Unless that "you" means "everyone who has ever slighted me" it's pure hyperbole taken so far as to be meaningless blather. For the record, though, I thought quite a bit about how I might appear to others in my post and was very careful to word it the way I did so that I am not ashamed of it, even if others disagree with me.
quote:You have called me naïve, and I am perhaps naïve, you have called me presumptuous, and I am perhaps presumptuous,
I have called you neither naive, nor presumptuous. I did call you rude, dishonest, and proud (used as a negative). I'll now add to that "liar" since you clearly don't care about the facts if they get in the way of your drama.
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posted
My drama, why that is dramatic irony indeed! I create a thread about human nobility, and then I am criticized because I edited my first post for grammar and then defended its style. I did not defend its grammar, but yet my defense of myself has provided yet another opportunity for me to be attacked.
"proud (used as a negative)" I have pride in my humanity, that was the message I tried to send and it was this pride, this indefensible pride, that I am now attacked.
This has never been about one incident and always been about me. I cannot write about humanity or any other issue without it turning, against my will, into a discussion of me and all my faults. Even if every word of slander spoken against me is true, am I so guilty that I am to be denied the right to speak?
"Who are you?" You know who I am.
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posted
And starLisa, don't be petty. Critisizing someone's grammar when their meaning is perfectly clear is just trifling.
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"a soliloquy over multiple posts involving honor" all communications over internet fora take the form of soliloquies, and on what topic but honor should I post when it is my honor, my humanity itself, which is under attack?
[Edited for Grammar, lest this post too be a weapon to my detractors.]
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I cannot write about humanity or any other issue without it turning, against my will, into a discussion of me and all my faults.
ahem...
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: btw, I'm still waiting for an explanation of what you were trying to say with the initial post, what kind of response you expected/expect etc...
quote:Originally posted by Cavalier: Sorry to interrupt all of the bickering, but I'm still waiting to hear how the new theology isn't just generic monotheism with a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in.
Well you've got at least two people with open ears, though I'm about ready to throw in the towel myself.
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posted
You're accusing KarlEd of dripping with acrid hatred? I've never seen someone be so polite on this board. He keeps a cool and kind manner better than anyone I've seen on an online forum. There have been some topics and posts where some extremely rude and hurtful things have been said and he responds better than I ever could.
I'll always read his posts and topics that he starts with extra interest. You really just do yourself a disservice in this case.
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posted
"a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in." It is that, of course, which is so offensive. How dare man stand unbending when he is so base? Let him return to the four legged earth-hugging walk which was in the beginning, or near enough the beginning.
Savonarola preached from the steps Duomo, in the midst of that beauty there was hatred. And yet the beauty outlived the hatred. That is the lesson of the Renaissance.
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quote:all communications over internet fora take the form of soliloquies
No, they don't Pelegius. This may be the heart of the disconnect. We're trying to have discussions. Apparently, you are performing soliloquies.
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posted
Pel: This may sound astounding to you but if you simply said, "I should have noted that I edited my post for clarity." Nobody would say anything more concerning the matter.
You remind me of episodes of M*A*S*H when they introduced Major Windchester. He spoke to everyone else with an air of pompousity using words that were intentionally complex so as to distinguish himself from his perceived lesser constituents.
This provoked the other guys to poke fun at what he was saying. They spent more time making puns out of his statements or simply poking fun at him rather than taking anything he said seriously.
He toned down his prideful Bostonian air a bit later in the seasons and he established a better niche for himself in the series. He was much more tolerable to watch, and yet he remained in essence the same character.
Pel its easy for a 17 year old to admit to being naive, or presumptious. You already know that as a 17 year old you CANNOT think you know everything. But its easy to admit a general ignorance, but quite difficult to admit the specifics of that ignorance.
Pel I dont expect you to acknowledge anything I say, or even apologize for anything.
I promise you if you simply forget about the threads made concerning you over the past few days and just start posting you ideas, asking questions, and trying your best to not take criticisms so personally, you will find that nobody will make mention of these events that are transpiring right now.
You are not being singled out for special treatment. You are not a martyr, your ideas are not being dismssed because you are young.
You comments are being met with derision because you are acting in an immature manner. Some people might indulge such behavior and forgive it on the grounds that we were all immature 17 year olds once. But at Hatrack people actually say what would be said to an adult saying your words.
I look back at some of the things I said as a 17 year and cringe because I took myself way to seriously and my insecurity made me develop a very unhealthy sense of pride.
I will continue to speak to you as a friend, its not as if anybody's feelings have been REALLY hurt (though we are fast approaching that threshold).
This post is long, and the longer the post the less likely its substance will continue to hold interest, so for now I leave you to your thoughts. I hope you might look at how others in the forum interact, and realize that because your particular style unique, you are uniquely responded to by people of that community. You decide if thats a good or a bad thing, be brave enough to accept the less comfortable answer to that question.
posted
How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this. We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue. But then, that is life isn't it? John Updike said "We all feel so curiously alone, but it's important to keep making signals through the glass."
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Dagonee, would that I were Bostonian, that might give me some hope. I am seventeen and from a back water town of a million people and far less influence, and I often, daily, feel as though these obstacles are insurmountable. I have said before that I tend to regularly, or, perhaps, irregularly, oscillate between deep cynicism and profound humanism. I should have said that my humanism gives me no comfort and my cynicism causes no pain. But it is not in me to be removed from the world, although I feel very distant from it, and this leads me often to despair. In my confusion, I grow weary and distrustful of people and I begin to fear that there is no peak to descend, either for me or for my beloved species, whom I have grown to view with a mixture of love and hate.
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posted
on a side note: has anyone here seen the series of "historical interviews" with Peter Ustinov? we watched a bunch of them in one of my highschool theology classes and they were all fantastic... though the one with Savanarola (sp?) was by far the best. Peter kept adding insult to insult while talking to him and Savanarola looked like he was just gonna slaughter the man =p brings back fond memories...
and regarding the soliloquies issue: Pel have you ever read anyone else's typical posts and compared them to your own and wondered why everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?
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quote:How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this.
By listening to what others say and reacting to it. By desiring to hear others' ideas. To read that rare single sentence which causes a switch to flip in my mind and me to say, "Aha!" Or write that even rarer sentence that causes someone else to flip that switch in their head. Or, when this isn't possible, to define where the areas of disagreement or confusion are, to find an area of common ground.
quote: We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue.
No, we don't. Many times, I'm writing to a specific poster (like now, for instance). Other times I'm writing with the express intent of evoking a response - usually to hear others' ideas on the topic or to clarify the ideas they have already expressed, sometimes to make people laugh, other times to get some advice, and still other times to just hear someone say, "That sucks" or "Way to go."
I am always writing here in order to communicate with someone else, though.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I look back at some of the things I said as a 17 year and cringe because I took myself way to seriously and my insecurity made me develop a very unhealthy sense of pride.
I will continue to speak to you as a friend, its not as if anybody's feelings have been REALLY hurt (though we are fast approaching that threshold).
I too was an insufferably prideful 17 year old, and I too cringe when I recall my attitude, actions and statements. One reason I cut ol' Pel some slack.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
"everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?"If we say that we are free from trouble, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not within us.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
"I am always writing here in order to communicate with someone else, though." Soliloquies, too, are a form of communication between an actor and an audience. We are all simultaneously acting and observing. We are Shakepeare's poor players and this is Whitman's powerful play.
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posted
yep... a million people... that's hickville alright.
Pelegius, you *do* realize that no one around here *cares* enough to hate you, right?
I think I can safely say that, at this point, everyone on this board is either trying to help you, provoking you for their own amusement, or ignoring you.
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You're accusing KarlEd of dripping with acrid hatred? I've never seen someone be so polite on this board. He keeps a cool and kind manner better than anyone I've seen on an online forum. There have been some topics and posts where some extremely rude and hurtful things have been said and he responds better than I ever could.
