posted
LD, seeing that I have not gone through with such a venture yet, I cannot give you any advice except to take the advice of these knowledgeable people here. All I know is that I was in a similar situation around 6 months ago, did not act, and the pain brought by the regret of not acting is agonizing.
quote:Simply ask her to a movie, one you know she wants to see. Once she accepts, tell her "Good, its a date." Smile real big.
You pay.
Dinner and movie and anything else you do (I'm talking mini-golf or ice cream after--not hotel rooms or tattoos.).
At the end, get your normal hug good night, but add a peck on the cheek. Then look into her eyes. You'll know if she's happy or not with moving closer then.
See, I really wouldn't advise this route. I would say it's likely to leave her extremely confused, even if she wants to date you too, because she won't know what's going on.
I had exactly this scenario pulled on me - exactly - by a long-time friend and I really wish he had just asked me, just told me he'd like to take me on a date. As it was, it was one of the weirdest, most awkward nights ever, and it took a while before we were hanging out normally again. Realizing halfway through dinner that you're on a date with someone you never intended to date is an extremely unpleasant epiphany. It also made me wonder what signals I had accidentally given already just by accepting the invitation, when I hadn't known. I felt terrible for the guy, because I had no idea if he thought I had agreed to date him already, by agreeing to go out that night to what *I* thought was hanging out with a friend.
The next time he asked me to do something, I had no idea what was going on, so I had to come up with a weird, diplomatic way of saying I was cool with hanging out, but nothing more, when I still wasn't entirely sure if we had been on a date. Then he got all weird on me, like he didn't want to confess he liked me, and it was awkward for a long time until we finally talked about it.
I would say if you're going to tell her, tell her straight up, dude. Good luck!
Posts: 624 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
This is what I'm on about. I doubt many guys go out on dates not realizing their dates. Women can do this. It boggles the mind. Not saying it's bad. But it is different.
Guys think they are being really obvious, but because to the women they aren't really guys, it goes unnoticed. Contrariwise, guys see signs when a woman is offering no signs.
For example, for a high school girl to call a guy and chat with him for an hour, he'll think maybe she likes him. Because he sure wouldn't call her just to talk. He doesn't call his guy friends to just talk. He goes out and does things with friends, or does things by himself at home, but doesn't just talk on the phone with his friends. So he thinks she likes him. And it means *nothing* to her!
Disclaimer for ElJay: these are all generalizations. Generalizations cannot be applied to individuals.
Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: [QB] The thing you need to know is that for men, there are two sexes, men and women. For women, there are men, women, and friends.
And friend equals eunuch.
In my experience this isn't true at all; I've only been in one significant relationship that didn't grow out of a solid friendship.
The key there is the phrase "solid friendship", rather than "hanging around pretending to be friends while waiting for her to come to her senses and realize how wonderful I am". That is something that I think is fairly common, and that has a fairly low success rate. Plus, it's dishonest, it's skeezy, and it's weak.
quote:Many women, upon finding out that the guy they have been hanging out with is not a eunuch after all, are squicked out or will feel awkward.
I'd guess that a lot of times what they feel squicked out by is a feeling, justified or not, that this person that they thought that they were having an authentic friendship with was actually presenting himself falsely in the hopes that she'd come around.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
ElJay: Not that you gain much from learning how BlackBlade uses the term, "Putting Out," I figured if it bothered you I could clarify what I meant.
For me putting out is any physical manifestation of love beyond friendship.
For ME at least it could be anything from kissing in a passionate way to having sex. I use "Putting Out" to encompase any action that leaves the friendship category and moves into the "together" category.
I understand why, assuming you use Putting Out as meaning only sex, why such an assurance might be offensive at worst and unwarranted at best.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Is that a regional thing, BlackBlade? I've never heard "putting out" to mean anything other than having sex.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: The key there is the phrase "solid friendship", rather than "hanging around pretending to be friends while waiting for her to come to her senses and realize how wonderful I am". That is something that I think is fairly common, and that has a fairly low success rate. Plus, it's dishonest, it's skeezy, and it's weak.
quote:Many women, upon finding out that the guy they have been hanging out with is not a eunuch after all, are squicked out or will feel awkward.
I'd guess that a lot of times what they feel squicked out by is a feeling, justified or not, that this person that they thought that they were having an authentic friendship with was actually presenting himself falsely in the hopes that she'd come around.
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Is that a regional thing, BlackBlade? I've never heard "putting out" to mean anything other than having sex.
Probably not, the longest I've lived anywhere at once is 7 years in Hong Kong. Its probably more of a personal use, but I have heard kids in Utah refer to girls who won't be intimate on dates as "refusing to put out."
Sorta in the same vein as, "I tapped that." Pretty sure it means sex to most, but in Utah I've heard it used in regards to making out.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
"I tapped that" always makes my skin crawl, as it seems to be as clear an instance of treating another as merely an object as I can imagine.
(Not that you are advocating the use of the phrase, BlackBlade -- I understand you were using it as an illustration.)
As regards the original post, I've come to the conclusion myself that the only way I can deal with such a situation while maintaining both self-respect and personal honor is eventually* to lay it right out, cards on the table: "I think you are the most amazing, wonderful person I know, and I would love to be closer than friends. If you are only interested in being friends, well, that's still great. I just wanted you to be aware of how highly I regard you." Then smile, chin up, and forge ahead.
It's hard to be deliberately vulnerable, but even with the dancing around, you do still end up (I think) being just as vulnerable when you carry a torch for another. Plus, all the possibility for misinterpretation, weird is-he-or-isn't-he interactions, and so forth all make me feel rather seedy. I'd rather put the emphasis on how incredible this person is, because -- truly -- that is a wonderful thing, regardless of whether or not we are more than friends. Those I am passionate for are people I am really passionate for, but I'm at an age and stage where I trust myself to maintain boundaries as appropriate.
That is to say, I can continue to be "just friends." But once it has been laid out on the table and dealt with directly, I am much more comfortable in setting aside the possibility and moving on. It's actually quite freeing.
---------
*(Following a protracted period of suitably proper communications and sidelong glances, of course. I wouldn't beat about the bush once I knew where I wanted to go with things, but I'd have to locate the bush first. As it were. Ahem.)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Claudia: I could have avoided many a dreery hour if girls in High School acted the way you do at their age.
Then again, sometimes I shudder when I think of some of the things I did and said when I was in High School.
edit: Also you comment of "Tapped That" reminds me of my 8th grade teacher ranting to our class about how we were all idiots for referring to "Having Sex" as "Making Love."
"Love has nothing to do with sex! You don't need love to have sex!" I believe his point was, that having sex does not instill love in the relationship, which I could agree with.
But half of me wonders if he was assuming that if any of us had sex it wouldn't be with somebody we loved.
You know now that I really think about it, I am still unsure what his point was.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
There is nothing wrong or shameful about thinking someone else is wonderful and amazing. There really isn't. I think the shameful part (at least, for me) is in how I may treat myself or others because of that.
Mind you, things work differently in high school and junior high, I'm sure. Those can be pressure-cooker sorts of environments where good things can be used against you, where multiple unacknowledged (hierarchial) agendas are going on, etc.
Thank goodness for adulthood and relatively free choice about whom to associate with.
----
As my last aside, this is all a moot question for me now, as I am most happily married. It is entirely possible that the theoretical nature of such musings (for me, at this time) tinges them with a rosier glow than is realistic.
Nonetheless, it is an approach I settled on well before I met my husband, and it served me well.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Hey Little_Doctor, I hope you're still reading this. I don't know if you remember or were around earlier this year (wow ... it's been a long year), but I was in a very similar situation. Almost identical really. I got lots of advice. 5 pages worth. But here's the thing: It's all on you. No one here can give you the answers. I can tell you what happened to me: I asked her out (built her a cake actually, a la Napoleon Dynamite), she said no, it messed up our friendship. Then she changed her mind, and we were "together" for about a month. One blissful month. Then she said it wasn't working out and broke my heart. It took a while but we were able to build our friendship pretty much up to where it was before. Oh, and I should mention I was a high school senior as well.
But here's the thing - There is no doubt in my mind that that situation won't happen with you and your girl. I don't know whats going to happen. No one does. Here's my advice though, from recent and painfully fresh experience: Do what YOU want. All this advice people are giving, it's just preparing you for what happens after. It's just so you can look back and see that you are not alone in whatever happens. The actual moment when you choose to act or not to act, that's all you. Eljay, Noemon, Uprooted, Blackblade, Seatarspayn (forgive me if I butchered your name), myself, everyone who's given you advice ... Everything we say will go out the window. So just do it. Or don't. Then come back here and we'll give you a hug or a high five.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: Hey Little_Doctor, I hope you're still reading this. I don't know if you remember or were around earlier this year (wow ... it's been a long year), but I was in a very similar situation. Almost identical really. I got lots of advice. 5 pages worth. But here's the thing: It's all on you. No one here can give you the answers. I can tell you what happened to me: I asked her out (built her a cake actually, a la Napoleon Dynamite), she said no, it messed up our friendship. Then she changed her mind, and we were "together" for about a month. One blissful month. Then she said it wasn't working out and broke my heart. It took a while but we were able to build our friendship pretty much up to where it was before. Oh, and I should mention I was a high school senior as well.
But here's the thing - There is no doubt in my mind that that situation won't happen with you and your girl. I don't know whats going to happen. No one does. Here's my advice though, from recent and painfully fresh experience: Do what YOU want. All this advice people are giving, it's just preparing you for what happens after. It's just so you can look back and see that you are not alone in whatever happens. The actual moment when you choose to act or not to act, that's all you. Eljay, Noemon, Uprooted, Blackblade, Seatarspayn (forgive me if I butchered your name), myself, everyone who's given you advice ... Everything we say will go out the window. So just do it. Or don't. Then come back here and we'll give you a hug or a high five.
Will do. I've been reading all of the suggestions and I really appreciate them. I'm still on the fence about what I'm going to do, but I'll be sure to let you all know as soon as I decide.
Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Don't stress too much about it all... If you wind up as friends, cool. If you wind up together, cool.
She's your friend, regardless. Let it play out however you feel comfortable leading, and following, it.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
In situations like these in the past, I've always found that if you are really good friends, then asking her to be your girlfriend won't "mess up your friendship." If she doesn't want to be your girlfriend, you'll still be friends (possibly after a short period of feeling kind of silly).
As an older person, let me tell you that you really have to ask her out if you like her. Every man has to ask girls on dates, sometimes he gets a date, sometimes he gets rejected. You have to do it, and the sooner you start, the sooner you'll be successful. The longer you let being nervous or shy hold you back, the longer until you get a girlfriend.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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