posted
Observations on American Culture, Which are Now Glaringly Obvious to Me (though I am guilty myself), Having Returned From the Orient
Americans are attention hogs. This is a discussion I had with Sister Onogawa, a Japanese Mormon girl.
If you have a room full of Americans and ask "does anyone speak Japanese?" The kid who took two years in high school and can say "o genki desu ka?" and not much else will jump to his feet. "I do! I speak Japanese! Look at me! Look at me!"
Now go into a room full of Japanese. "Does anyone here speak English?" Dead silence. You ask someone specifically. "Do you speak English?" He, like every other person in the room, studied it for 6 years in school and is fairly proficient. "Oh, no. I'm terrible."
Of course this is generalizing. But, culturally speaking, it is rather true. So Sister Onogawa and I argued in favor of each others' cultures.
Me: Americans are so obnoxious! They have no sense of propriety or thought for the rest of the people in the room. There is no acknowledging your neighbor's merits first. And usually when you acknowledge your own merits, you overplay them dramatically. None of us ever had the attention span or work ethic to become as good at (piano, baseball, macrame) as we love to claim we are. The Nihonjin, on the other hand, each have a talent that they've been seriously cultivating for years. And before they show off about it, they'll try to pass your attention to their friend. "Me? Play piano? Well, I like it, but I'm no good. Kenji here is awesome, though. Play something for us, Kenji."
Sister Onogawa: But that's the problem! No one in Japan has self confidence. They've worked for seven years but they're still convinced they're crap. (the word she used was zen zen dame. This is a very loose translation.) Whereas an American really thinks he can do anything, and he does it. What good does a talent do if you never perform for anyone? My first American companion was loud and brassy and talked about herself all the time. At first I thought she was proud, but then I realized she is actually just full of faith.
****
And now that I'm home, I'm seeing it all the time. Heck, I'm doing it all the time. Look at any conversation on Hatrack. Someone brings up a question, and everyone jumps on with personal experience. "Oh, in MY case..." "well, when I worked in that field..." "as a matter of fact, I have photos of my macrame online right now..."
We're just full of it. Full of what? Bravado? Hot air? Confidence?
Is this a bad thing?
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I've seen that some. I try to always temper myself though by putting in words like some, to indicate while I do have some knowledge I am not fully confident in it. Although this is more true for me in areas where I feel like I need to improve more. In some areas, I might just say that I know/understand it. Of course, I wouldn't be the one bouncing up and down to answer when a teacher or someone asks "does anyone know this/know how to do this?" I'm not confident enough in myself to do that, because even when I do feel like I know it I also know I could always make a mistake.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Even if you put in words to temper it, I think it odd that our first motivation is "look at me!" while some cultures' motivation is "don't look at me!"
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Well yes. The one thing I always remember about Japan though is that whole phrase about "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down." Obviously, you'd not want to stick out. Of course, that doesn't explain why Americans often jump to the "look at me" first. *shrugs* Hard to say, I guess.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Are we speaking about a certain situation, or just in general, because I would try my best to stick out if I was looking for a job or in a club or something, but I would try and blend in if I happened to get caught in a bank robbery or something.
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:We're just full of it. Full of what? Bravado? Hot air? Confidence?
Ourselves?
There was a recent news report about how MySpace and YouTube have helped create a look-at-me mentality, especially among young people. We are taught, from a very young age, about the importance of the wants, needs, opinions, and accomplishments of the individual. The article cited a preschool song sung to the tune of Frere Jacques: "I am special, I am special, look at me..." Some of the schools I attended took great pains to protect children's self-esteem and instead inflated their egos.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with confidence. Ambition is not a bad thing. It just becomes a problem when people are confident to the point of self-delusion. As you said: American Idol. People who are kicked off during the first auditions frequently rant about how much better they are than [insert last year's winner here].
posted
Historically, the ability (tendency)for the American solder to confidently improvise both tactics and modifications to equipment,without direction, was considered a major strength when pitted aganst Japanese, Western European and especially Eastern European solders. I think that some of what you are seeing is that same tendency. "Look at me!" just might be "Well, I can do that!" It's not all bad, just different.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Annie- your example about the language thing is a rather poor one to demonstrate your supposition. This is a cultural difference of an entirely different order: how do Americans act around NEW people in NEW situations. Some of us are eager to please, eager to talk and are slightly more agressive or show confidence. That doesn't make us attention grabbers, it shows how we deal with new situations. And besides, it's not even always true- we all have different personalities.
This whole topic needs some reconsidering imho. It's just more name calling and generalizing about our culture, when clearly there are a million holes in your theory and you don't even seem to be very clear on what you mean. I am willing to bet that an Asian would would have a different view of our culture than you do, viewing it from your return- they might be able to assign some more neutral reasons for the ways we behave.
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posted
"In my class no one raises their hand when the teacher asks a question."
That's a huge problem in classrooms all over the country, believe it or not. It is especially a problem in high school and college. In a class of 30+ students, the kids jumping up and down to be heard are the exception, not the rule.
It's much less of a problem in the lower grades, but by the time kids hit middle/high school, they have learned not to volunteer information, perhaps out of fear of being wrong or fear of being noticed, or fear of looking like a know it all. Who knows? I begrudgingly participate in class only after there is a good, awkward silence (and since I do that, my professors call on me by default when no one answers because they know I'll know, which is something I dislike).
Posts: 247 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Annie, I forget, how long have you been back? I remember hearing about reverse culture shock when you get back from a really different culture. I experienced a little of this myself when I got back to Japan. Although if you've been back for a while, then I doubt that may be why you're seeing it more.
EDIT:
quote:Originally posted by DevilDreamt: Who knows? I begrudgingly participate in class only after there is a good, awkward silence (and since I do that, my professors call on me by default when no one answers because they know I'll know, which is something I dislike).
Hehe, I hate that awkward silence. That's often when I force myself to participate. Awkward silences aren't fun.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
How about middle ground then? Americans learn to be more humble, folks in Japan, learn to say, yes, I have played piano for 10 years and I am phenominal (Sp) We'll both win!
*Reminded of how I need to study Japanese, I WILL become bilingual one day!*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Isn't this just an expression of individualism versus one of collectivism? Emerson wrote a pair of novels about those two societal models, you know.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by DevilDreamt: "In my class no one raises their hand when the teacher asks a question."
That's a huge problem in classrooms all over the country, believe it or not. It is especially a problem in high school and college. In a class of 30+ students, the kids jumping up and down to be heard are the exception, not the rule.
It's much less of a problem in the lower grades, but by the time kids hit middle/high school, they have learned not to volunteer information, perhaps out of fear of being wrong or fear of being noticed, or fear of looking like a know it all. Who knows? I begrudgingly participate in class only after there is a good, awkward silence (and since I do that, my professors call on me by default when no one answers because they know I'll know, which is something I dislike).
Yeah, see that's why I had a hard time reading Annie's original post the right way. In many experiences I've had, people would rather lay low instead of stand out. Sure, when you meet new people, you want to get to know them, so of course you're going to try and get their attention. Same with they're really hot, you want to get to know them, so you try and get their attention. I'm pretty sure that these two rules apply across cultures, because I'm whenever you go on vacation overseas, when people see you, they know you're American, and they want to get to know you because of that.
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posted
I don't have any words of wisdom on the subject, but my friend Herbert over here....
Actually, this cultural bravado thing reminds me of that part in Enchantment, the dinner at the village the night he arrives, where everyone is expecting him to tell this story about how he saved Katerina and how brave he was, and how terrifying the Bear was...and he says "oh, it was nothing" and Katerina's father gets so upset because it was his DAUGHTER he saved, so of course it was something!
Cultural differences often lend themselves quite readily to the purposes of humor Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote: I am willing to bet that an Asian would would have a different view of our culture than you do, viewing it from your return- they might be able to assign some more neutral reasons for the ways we behave.
Which is what Sister Onogawa did, which is why I presented my idea with the story that I did.
quote:Annie, I forget, how long have you been back?
A little over a week, so you are right. This vague malaise set in as soon as I got to the Los Angeles airport and I haven't been able to shake it since.
And to clarify the example I used - this is not simply a phenomenon that occurs when you first meet someone - it is a deep-seated way of seeing yourself and your society that manifests it even after long acquaintance. The language example is merely an example. This occurs among people who know each other very well.
When I first started understanding enough of the language to observe it, I called it "the Japanese compliment game." Good friends (and my observations were mainly middle aged and older women)sit around complimenting each other. You then win points for how deftly you deflect the compliments. You get double points if you pass them on to someone else. "Oh, no, my voice is awful. But Mayumi has a lovely voice. I heard her sing last week and it was fabulous..."
Also, this is not an "Asian" cultural phenomenon, as far as my anecdotal experience can tell. Chinese people behave very differently than Japanese people. They're a little more like Americans in some respects, but mostly just distinctly different from both. For them it's less of a "respect the surrounding people" issue and more of "respect some external universal standard of goodness."
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Humility is not a virtue. Selflessness isn't a virtue, either.
These things can be tools in service to a higher cause. But they are not inherently virtuous, and can be quite pernicious if encouraged for their own sakes. As you pointed out, the deflection of compliments is in its own way a social game; there's pride to be found in seeming prideless, and everyone in the culture is aware of this pretense.
While there are some advantages to collectivism, I think it's a suboptimal strategy overall.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Annie, I forget, how long have you been back?
A little over a week, so you are right. This vague malaise set in as soon as I got to the Los Angeles airport and I haven't been able to shake it since.
Let's be fair, though: you didn't much like American culture before you left. Have you considered the possibility that you might be happier living somewhere else?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:But that's the problem! No one in Japan has self confidence. They've worked for seven years but they're still convinced they're crap.
This is also true for many Sri Lankan women.
Using the women at church I know as an example... It's been a difficult slog getting many of them to speak up, offer their opinions, their experiences, to offer to help out. Several speak so softly that, even when I'm less than a foot away, I can't understand them - they think they speak English so badly that no one will understand them! In reality, when they start speaking up, I understand what they're saying perfectly well (getting past my own problem with accents, of course. )
Fahim's mother was also the same way. Didn't speak English ever. Ever. Can understand most of conversations taking place in English, reads English newspapers, but wouldn't speak it. Then with Fahim's sister's daughters, she spoke a little with them, but only with them. Then I came along, and she has to speak English when no one's around to translate, and she's gotten a lot more confident and tries more. We understand each other most of the time. Simple stuff, but still... The point being that she lacked confidence. She thought she had a terrible accent, but she's actually clearer in her pronunciation than her husband or her sons.
It's a bit of a contradiction, really.
If Mrs. Fernando needs someone to fix her stove, she'll call someone she knows or will get a recommendation from someone she knows. The person recommending the stove fixer will suggest someone she knows. It's never based on quality of work but on relationships. So the stove isn't fixed right because the guy wasn't the least bit competent, but because it's someone you know or someone who knows someone you know, you're all polite and use him again and again. Because you wouldn't dare call someone who you didn't know, either directly or through association.
As a result, the stove fixer thinks he can fix anything, even if he's a complete idiot and totally incompetent.
Restaurants are the same way - doesn't matter the actual quality of the food or service, they think they're fantastic. Doesn't matter if someone complains (usually foreigners, almost never locals - the locals know it's a waste of time), they ignore anything bad said and assume that they're the best.
They're basically fooling themselves. Confidence without competence.
It seems, from my experience, that it's much more of a gender thing here.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I have noticed that there are some significant regional difference in this trait within the United. In the mid-west and Intermountain regions (an maybe the south east?), the "look at me, look at me" behavior is much less acceptable than it is in the north east or California. As a result, Easterners and Californians are seen as being arrogant and brash. In contrast, people from the middle of the country are often considered timid when they go to the coasts. They often have trouble getting credit for their accomplishments because they consider it rude to toot their own horns.
As for the compliment game, I've seen a very similar version played in America, particularly among teenagers.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Annie, you definitely have a point. I think it can easily fit into the whole "American dream" thing. In American culture, we are taught to believe we can do anything. It's how this country was made.
On the other hand, you're just giving the Canadians one more reason to be snobby towards us, which we didn't need. Posts: 930 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I'd say these observations are reasonably representative of their respective cultures. Three dimensions stick out in particular: individualism (US) vs. collectivism/communitarianism (East Asia), the degree of uncertainty avoidance (Japan being very risk/uncertainty adverse, the United States being on the opposite end of the spectrum), and bifurcation of inner directed (US) vs. outer directed (East Asian) cultures. Your observations seem very much to be in line with most major cultural analyses, if a bit exaggerated.
Edit: Sorry for the jargon--class on Organizational Behavior spilling through.
Posts: 433 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Although your big vocabulary did make us all look at you.
quote:(Icarus) Have you considered the possibility that you might be happier living somewhere else?
Several times.
However, I'm also frequently confronted with how incredibly American I am myself. The reason I know the attitude so well is because I am the attitude. And that's the most frustrating of all.
quote:Humility is not a virtue.
If I may translate, herikudaru is not a virtue, while kenson is. I learned there were two words for being humble accidentally. I was talking to Sister Shiki one day about how kenson the Japanese are.
"Kenson janai," she stated. "Tada herikudatteru."
"They're not humble - they're merely showing outward signs of socially appropriate humble behavior,"
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:If I may translate, herikudaru is not a virtue, while kenson is.
Why is kenson a virtue? What good does it actually do? Perspective is useful, but in what way is humility -- genuine or not -- useful?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Why is kenson a virtue? What good does it actually do?
If it's honest from-the-heart humility it doesn't preclude self-confidence. But it does allow you to think outside of the paradigm of "I'm always right." It allows for greater personal advancement because it considers personal achievement in its proper context - the achievements of everyone else in the world.
One of my design professors told us during a critique: You know that one kid in class who always does something really good and it just makes you mad? Mad because he always shows you up? Well, take that emotion and turn it into something productive. Instead of getting defensive about your own piece, turn that admiration of his into a desire to learn and improve from him.
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posted
See, again, I'd prefer perspective to humility in that case. It's good to recognize when someone has done something good, and good to recognize that you have room for improvement. The traditions I associate with kenson, though, aren't limited to that kind of useful self-awareness.
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posted
What do you traditionally associate with humility?
(I ask because I'vebeen raised in a culture where humility is taught as a Christ-like virtue to be sought for and is described as a positive, constructive thing)
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posted
*nod* It's that attitude towards humility -- or "modesty," even -- that I find especially pernicious. I think humility is a worthy social tool, and I think perspective is absolutely vital, but humility as a way of improving yourself is (IMO) only valuable if you don't currently have that perspective.
It's all relative, anyway. We speak of Christ-like humility, but Christ after all claimed to be God; we speak of the arrogance of atheists, but the religious often claim to have received God's personal attention. The "humility" involved in living a simple life is a very different sort from the "humility" involved in downplaying one's abilities and accomplishments, and I think the only word that actually encompasses all those definitions of "humility" without including the insincere and/or unhealthy forms is "perspective."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:We speak of Christ-like humility, but Christ after all claimed to be God
I suppose this is troublesome from a trinitarian point of view. If one believes in the Father and the Son as separate and distinct beings, statements like
quote:Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
are a perfect illustration of humility.
It is through Christ's ultimate humility that He becomes one with the Father; He cedes His will to that of the Father.
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posted
I'm highly uncomfortable with the conflation of "humility" as a virtue with that of "submission." In fact, your specific example actually threw that into sharp relief for me; I wouldn't've been able to articulate that if you hadn't replied in that way.
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posted
I think it can be. And I worry that the promotion of submission as a virtue does not in itself make it any easier to accurately determine which are good things and which are bad things.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'm confident enough in the power of good things to demonstrate their goodness that people will know the difference.
We all submit to things - cultural attitudes, our family traditions, the opinions of our favorite writers and authors - I don't think any of us are wise enough to define the universe and go it alone. And in our lives we see the results of the things we've submitted to. Perhaps that judgement takes time and effort, but good wells have good water. Bitter wells have bitter water.
I, frankly, worry about the promotion of refusal to submit as a virtue.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Sorry - I'm about to submit to my self-imposed bedtime. But now I'm all full of thoughts. We shall continue another day.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:class on Organizational Behavior spilling through
I'm sorry.
quote:"In my class no one raises their hand when the teacher asks a question."
That's a huge problem in classrooms all over the country, believe it or not. It is especially a problem in high school and college. In a class of 30+ students, the kids jumping up and down to be heard are the exception, not the rule.
It's much less of a problem in the lower grades, but by the time kids hit middle/high school, they have learned not to volunteer information, perhaps out of fear of being wrong or fear of being noticed, or fear of looking like a know it all. Who knows? I begrudgingly participate in class only after there is a good, awkward silence (and since I do that, my professors call on me by default when no one answers because they know I'll know, which is something I dislike).
A large part of why I was ostracized in school is that I loved to learn, asked questions of the teachers, answered theirs, loved to debate and think and read. Loving to learn is not cool. Liking your classes, any of them, is not cool (except, maybe, sports.) At least, it wasn't at my school. That's why the Drama kids hung out together, and the Band kids hung out together, and the Dance kids hung out together, and the Choir kids often hung out together, and we dorks in Latin Club often hung out together, too, or found other socially unacceptable people to hang out with-- because we cared enough about something that we weren't cool. The only people who defied this were the kids who managed to be good at everything (sports, piano, A.P. English, trig) but pass it off as if they didn't ever work at it-- because if people knew they worked at it or thought too much about it, people would know they cared, and that would be uncool.
It sucked. I wished I had been home-schooled. In fact, I still do. I think I would have done a lot better in a lot of different ways. And I might not have some of the problems that I have now, as a result of 11 years (it didn't really start much until 2nd grade) of constant put-downs because I liked to learn, and read, and think, and didn't have a lot of money.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'm from China and I'd like to offer my viewpoint here. I'm not going to argue which attitude is good and which is bad, just some personal experience to share with everyone.
I remember how upset the three of my foreign teachers, two from the US and one from Canada,(my major was English back when I was in college) got when they taught us. And the cause of their unhappiness was, according to what they desperately asserted, that "you guys simply refuse to cooperate with me."
One teacher (the Canadian one) became our overt enemy because he went to the dean for too many times to tell him how bad we were; one didn't care much about the situation; and one survived it and became a much respected teacher to us.
I believe the successful teacher (he's from America, name is George) did spend a lot of time trying to understand us, instead of standing awkwardly on the platform all by himself, desperately waiting for the silent students to do something about it.
In Chinese culture, Confucianism plays a very important part which teaches people always to take the middle of the road, to remain modest and unassuming. There is a saying in China that could find equal versions in English as "He knows most who speaks least." or "Still water runs deep." This attitude has been handed down from generation to generation throughout the history, and certainly has made its contribution to create a peaceful and harmonious society. However what we value as the essence of Chinese culture doesn't seem to fit the modern society as before. Especially when people graduate from universities and colleges, the competition is almost unbearable. Therefore many a person are turning to the western way of thinking which looks more active and even a little aggressive but which actually would help people stand out and fulfill better his potentials in a time like this.
So things are actually changing, when you come to China you may find that people in big cities are more open and could accept the western cultures and ways of doing things more readily. Actually the kids nowadays are quite different from what I was like when I was little, they are full of energy, and welcome modern stuff with open arms. In some primary schools where English classes are offered by western teachers, these kids really cooperate with those teachers. I think it's a good sign. Because the world is merging into something very alike, all we need to do is to preserve the good points in our own culture and learn from others.
I've met some western visitors (mostly from the US), who do not seem to have any big problem to adapt to Chinese culture, who are quite willing to learn and to exchange ideas, which make their stays in China quite easy and pleasant. And I must say that their sense of humor could almost solve all problems if there's any.
In the end, I believe it's of great importance to preserve what is good in one's culture and be proud of it. Don't you think it's possible for a person to remain modest yet could appropriately seize the good opportunities to show his or her abilities? I think many people are actually just like that, both easterners and westerners.
posted
Being Japanese myself (look at me!), I see the cultural bias towards humility as not always healthy. It does however have the effect of smoothing over many social situations (codified/hierarchical prescribed behaviour often alleviates the need to think about what would be appropriate self-expression; the answer is given), avoiding embarrassing ego-clashes, and earning the respect of American visitors.
I have a great deal of respect for people who show humility and reserve if they're honest, but I equally appreciate someone who is down to earth. Somehow I've always imagined the quintessential American to be earthy, honest, and not arrogant but open about what s/he wants or feels; a likeable person, who is slow to accept obligations except in trade (fair enough!). Teenage USians have disappointed me more than a few times, but frankly, every population has its fair share of jerks. I'm not ready to condemn all or even most Americans with the label "arrogant."
You'll also find that under the surface, Japanese people are often fiercely proud of what they do. Being humble about their work often makes the pride feel better deserved, or may be their way of indicating that the merits of their work speak for themselves. (Oh my, another Japanese "paradox"!)
I have to admit to a huge curiosity over whether you're still there, did you grow up there, that sort of thing, but I'll refrain from giving you the third degree. Of course, you could always volunteer the information... You know, in an intro thread or something. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I'm going to have to go with Tom on this one. What one person may seem as arrogant, another may see as helpful. If I were to go into a room needing a Japanese translator, I'd much rather have the kid with a little basic understanding volunteer to help than have the guy who's totally fluent sit back and refuse to say anything just to prove how modest he is.
My best friend is married to a Japanese girl. She has apparently studied the piano for many years and is quite accomplished. But I didn't know this until they'd been married for several years, and even then my friend had to tell me. If you really back her into a corner she will, under duress, admit that she's taken a lesson or two. But her husband is (as far as I know) the only American who has ever heard her play, and she's only played for him once.
What is the point, from a Japanese perspective, of studying the piano for many years if you refuse to ever play it? Why should a child fortunate enough to have a piano-playing mother grow up in a house without music? What kind of backward tradition would teach a parent to deprive their own child of an important cultural experience simply to play the game of false modesty?
Of course, I do understand your frustration with the other extreme. The best course is probably found somewhere in the middle. But even from that perspective, Americans as a whole aren't that bad. My wife is from eastern Europe, and although she's not a big blowhard like some of her compatriots, I've met many people from her country that make Americans look positively Zen in their objectivity and restraint.
Anyway, I hope your opinion of Americans improves once the reverse culture shock wears off. Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote: I, frankly, worry about the promotion of refusal to submit as a virtue.
Why? Again, what's virtuous about submission? If a recommended behavior is truly good, and good things bear good fruit and are thus obviously good, there's no need to ever submit; rational people will always be persuaded by the evidence to do good of their own free will, without having to "obey" anyone.
It's only if you accept that not all good things are obviously good that submission to a higher authority of any kind appears even remotely useful.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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What is the point, from a Japanese perspective, of studying the piano for many years if you refuse to ever play it?
No point.
quote:What kind of backward tradition would teach a parent to deprive their own child of an important cultural experience simply to play the game of false modesty?
... If by backward tradition you mean Japanese tradition, it doesn't teach parents to do that.
Your friend's wife either lacks the confidence to play in front of an audience/teach her child piano, or is taking the submissive wife role more seriously than most modern Japanese women.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Not to point out the obvious, but is it possible that you are looking at the people who say, "Look at me!"? If you are only noticing those who draw attention to themselves, maybe that's why it seems like Americans like to draw attention to themselves.
In other words, if you pay attention to those are NOT jumping up and down for the attention, a more nuanced picture of Americans may appear.
Specifically, both Matt and Coccinelle are incredibly smart, talented, and knowledgable, especially in their fields, and they don't usually volunteer their expertise out of a desire to not draw attention to themselves. I do a lot of linking to threads and saying, "This is crying out for your contribution." They are American.
If you look at My Space, of course everyone is going to seem like an attention hog. The non-attention hogs are not posting on My Space.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I think humility is a virtue. Pride is a really ugly thing - especially pride that places oneself as having the highest value. I think part of the reason I like people who are passionate about something - anything - is because they are willing to devote their whole self to something other than their self.
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Thanks for sharing. 
