quote:As for the drooling morons assumedly dumbstruck by my glorious hawttness (such as it was), they didn't bother me so much. At some point the poor witless bastards were told that pretty girls existed to be looked at and drooled on, so that's what they did. But I found that with some persistence and effort on my part, men could learn to look past my glorious hawttness and discover the truly loathsome beast beneath. Picking my nose was remarkably effective in forcing men to avert their eyes. So was scratching any odd itch, wherever I might find one. Diligently scratching, like it was a job, digging and scraping with total abandon. Belching was quite effective. Of course, if being gross was not an appropriate strategy there were other things I could do. Asking a pointed, preposterous, ridiculous question, phrased in the most overblown and long-winded faux-intellectual style, while making direct eye contact, also worked, as did acting bat**** insane. Anything I could do to forcibly rip off the veil of "pretty", I did. Pretty, maybe - but not ****able. how could a belching, scratching, nose-picking beast be ****able?
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Those specific behaviors? No. Other specific behaviors designed to avoid the Gaze? Yes. Often.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Hmm, my standards are low enough not to take any notice.
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Recently I was sitting in slow moving traffic and there was a pretty girl in the car next to me. She happened to look up at me at the same time that I look over and we made eye contact, so I smiled. The car she was in fell behind and then caught back up, but when they pulled beside me the girl flicked me off and based on the look on her face was cursing me out big time. There followed an escalation of offensive gestures.
Another time I was at a public pool with my family. We were sitting on some bleachers next to the pool and a girl walked by. We briefly made eye contact and I said "Hi." She then yelled at the top of her lungs that she was a lesbian.
These are the examples that come to mind first, but this same type of thing has happened several other times. So, what's the rule of thumb (wrist?) here? If you find a stranger attractive, ignore them at all costs? Only be friendly to people you aren't attracted to? Being nice = pervert? (I say this not because I'm only nice to people I'm attracted to, but because people that don't automatically assume I want them tend to be a lot nicer.)
I know there are plenty of guys out there that do and say inappropriate things, but it really bugs me when females assume that any male that looks their way or says something nice is a "poor witless bastards [who was] told that pretty girls existed to be looked at and drooled on." Hey, some of us open the door for, say hello to, or wave at anybody, and if you (general you) think it's all about your "hawttness," then that's your narcisim, not my problem.
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It's a double standard. If the man who looks at the woman in question is attractive, I'm relatively certain that she won't be offended. (If a look is all it is.) That same look from an unattractive man, and it's unwanted attention.
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I didn't care much about guys checking me out, but whether I had one or not, I often mentioned my bf. I found being checked out flattering. Though it seems like once I got married, guys stopped checking me out. One guy friend told me that the wedding ring is the most unappealing thing a woman can wear- the ultimate in not available, don't bother.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Telling guys you're a lesbian usually only turns them on more =(
I think its more they don't believe your totally committed to being a lesbian. So that obnoxious threesome fetish is still on the table. Or perhaps the fact you both think girls are hot is like finding out you have something in common. Honestly speaking sometimes when I observe male behavior it makes complete sense to me that girls find other girls more attractive then men.
Vonk: come to Utah, there are cute girls everywhere and they are for the most part so friendly.
I've had girls give me cat calls from their convertables, and I can't remember the last time I smiled or said "hi" and the girl didn't respond in kind or one step higher.
My wife can't wink without opening her mouth and since its her eyes it naturally makes the edges of her lips raise in a smile. It may just be the cutest thing I have ever seen, and I've never seen anybody else with the same deal.
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As a general rule, I try to be polite and give a nod, smile or sound "howdy" to pretty much everyone I make eye contact with, male or female, attractive or not.
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quote:Originally posted by Javert: It's a double standard. If the man who looks at the woman in question is attractive, I'm relatively certain that she won't be offended. (If a look is all it is.) That same look from an unattractive man, and it's unwanted attention.
That's....not a double standard. It makes sense that women would want attention from men they find attractive more than those they do not find attractive.
Personally, most of the time, attention doesn't bother me. Although I would sometimes appreciate it if they didn't honk their horns and yell things at me from their cars. I would also appreciate it if they weren't leering. There IS a difference between being checked out and being leered at.
In a situation when you have two men, giving the same look and smile, where one is attractive and the other isn't, it is incredibly more likely that the unattractive man's look and smile will be seen as 'unwanted attention'.
And as an unattractive male, I would know. Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Vonk: come to Utah, there are cute girls everywhere and they are for the most part so friendly.
I've had girls give me cat calls from their convertables, and I can't remember the last time I smiled or said "hi" and the girl didn't respond in kind or one step higher.
Well, we can't all be the steeming hunk of man meat that you are. But I'm sure the attitude would vary in different locales, possibly worsening in heavily urban areas.
quote:That's....not a double standard. It makes sense that women would want attention from men they find attractive more than those they do not find attractive.
There's a difference between not particularly wanting the attention and actively trying to prevent it by being rude or offensive. I think that's where it become a double standard.
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quote:Well, we can't all be the steeming hunk of man meat that you are. But I'm sure the attitude would vary in different locales, possibly worsening in heavily urban areas.
Steaming hunk of man meat would not even be on a list of phrases to describe me. Though I won't pretend I'm sort of ugly wretch either.
Still after growing up in Hong Kong when I finally moved here at the age of 21 I was taken aback by just how beautiful Utah girls are and with how nice they are.
So of course I married a girl from Washington State Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think that the rule of thumb here is just that some people are jerks and it isn't your fault if they are rude.
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I love when women act that way. If you have such a high opinion of yourself that you feel like you have to turn men away from your hawtness, or you can't handle a man saying hi or making eye contact, we guys want to know immediately that you're a jerk so we don't waste our time with you.
I'm sure the woman quoted in the first post thinks she's a real catch, and that she's putting on an act to turn guys off, but anyone who can't be polite isn't worth the time to talk to.
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If a stranger smiles at me, I'll smile back and assume there's no hidden agenda. If a stranger comes up and starts talking, I'll usually be friendly but not encouraging. If a stranger asks if he can buy me a drink, I'll usually decline in one way or another, sometimes with "Thanks, but I don't think my boyfriend would appreciate that" if the guy isn't getting the hint.
The stranger's attractiveness does not have a strong correlation to my responses. As a rule, I don't accept drinks from strangers, but I'm perfectly all right with chatting and meeting new people.
Oh, and I hate catcalls. I often walk home alone after dark (I live close to campus and my friends' places), and they make me incredibly uncomfortable. I find them demeaning and objectifying.
I've even had guys pull over and ask if I need a ride. While I'd like to think that they had the purest of motives in mind, I could never accept.
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I'm sure the woman quoted in the first post thinks she's a real catch, and that she's putting on an act to turn guys off, but anyone who can't be polite isn't worth the time to talk to.
Actually, she says that now she's "old, paunchy, frizzy, wrinkled," and therefore "totally invisible," and she's glad. Elsewhere she says she's a "corpulent frightwigged hideous toad."
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posted
One of my best friends was a male homosexual. We had remarkably similar tastes in men (well, except for that one detail...). One night we went to a dress-up party (me in a tux, him in a ballgown LOL) together where I think I was the only straight person in the bar. He took to telling the gals hitting on me that I was a hermaphrodite because he could tell I was becoming uncomfortable with their fawning over me.
Nowadays, I'd love to be the object of someone's attentions. I'd probably turn into a puddle of jelly with zero brain function if it were to happen, because it's been so long that I seriously don't know how to respond anymore. But I'd still love to have someone show that they're attracted to me.
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posted
Haven't done it personally, but I have a friend whose favourite strategy is nose-picking. She does reserve it for the persistent-not-getting-the-plainly-expressed-non-atrraction kind of situation, though.
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Catcalls are ridiculous. Really ridiculous. They reveal a lack of discipline, control, and contribute to a demeaning environment where pedestrians are scared for their own safety. It's idiotic, anti-social behavior.
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I don't generally mind if I get catcalls. Admittedly, it doesn't happen often, which is probably why I don't mind Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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For the most part, I hate catcalls. I hate men who slow down in their cars/trucks to honk at me as they pass by. Now, if it's a busy street during the day, I don't mind so much. If I'm on a quieter sidestreet....then I mind.
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I'm with you pH. I remember my step-sister and I walking to the grocery store when we were 15. Some guy (in the passenger seat) actually stuck his head out the window and leaned out where he was practically touching us to get our attention. That was pretty creepy.
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I was walking my dog down a really quiet street one morning, and an old man in a car full of what I can only assume were his grandkids was coming in the opposite direction...he slowed to a near dead stop and started saying things to me. *shudder*
I don't really understand the purpose of catcalls from cars to begin with, but THAT...that was supremely creepy.
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Catcalls used to really creep me out, too, but I found the right approach, I think, and now they are fine. First of all, you have to realize that since the guys in question don't know you from anyone, it isn't personal. They aren't bothering you personally, and there is nothing they want from you. They're just admiring God's creation, in sort of the same way one might admire a sunset or a pretty cloudscape.
Secondly, the fact that they're treating you in such an impersonal fawning fanlike way just shows that they consider themselves beneath you. Run with that concept. They are the fans and you are Marilyn Monroe or Princess Di. They're your public, so of course they adore you. Give them a beautific sweet smile and a Princess Di-like wave. You're distant royalty, they're your subjects. Be a good royal and make their day by acknowledging their worship and recognizing them as your fans. It works great, nobody is threatened, and everyone is made happy. Give it a try, and let me know how it turns out.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I did try that - smiled a hello and then walked away. The same guy three days later showed up on my doorstep, lied to get insided, and grabbed me for heaven knows what. I yelled at him to get out, called the police, and they (he and his wife and children!) moved about two weeks later.
So, yeah, maybe not such a great idea.
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quote: Secondly, the fact that they're treating you in such an impersonal fawning fanlike way just shows that they consider themselves beneath you. Run with that concept. They are the fans and you are Marilyn Monroe or Princess Di. They're your public, so of course they adore you. Give them a beautific sweet smile and a Princess Di-like wave. You're distant royalty, they're your subjects. Be a good royal and make their day by acknowledging their worship and recognizing them as your fans. It works great, nobody is threatened, and everyone is made happy. Give it a try, and let me know how it turns out.
Or that they think of you as a big chunk of meat. Probably a lot more accurate.
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posted
Supposedly in Latin countries men call out compliments and women actually like it, and liking it does not put them at risk. But gentlemen don't do that here so if she responds positively she is encouraging someone who isn't so good.
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posted
Yeah, while I've never had something as extreme as kat's example happen, if I smile graciously or do anything but ignore them they follow me and proposition me or ask me out. Asking me out, obviously, isn't so bad, but it still makes me nervous, and the propositioning usually isn't pleasant. So I'll stick to ignoring, thanks.
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I never got into the catcall thing. What do they expect, the women to flag them down and say "hey, I didn't know what you thought of me until you yelled it out the window. Want to go out?"
I have four daughters, I'm scared for them.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I've yet to hear a man complain when a car full of girls whistle or make cat calls at them.
I wonder why there is sometimes a disconnect on the occurance for men and women.
I suspect that men are less likely to be worried about whether that carful of girls are going to start following them and pull over when they're in an empty street.
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posted
I think for a lot of reasons women are more likely to feel threatened by men than the reverse. I think the "creepy" factor ties into the "scary" factor.
Also, women are objectified a lot more often than men. So when a man gets catcalled, it's probably a rare and flattering thing. Just about any girl, regardless of beauty, has probably been catcalled many, many times. The very first time it happened to me I was mildly flattered. But over the years, it just gets obnoxious.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I've yet to hear a man complain when a car full of girls whistle or make cat calls at them.
I wonder why there is sometimes a disconnect on the occurance for men and women.
I suspect that men are less likely to be worried about whether that carful of girls are going to start following them and pull over when they're in an empty street.
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I must be a real uggo. I've been catcalled by strangers, I think, two or three times in my life.
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Living in the city, I started having to take public trans in my early teens. There's nothing quite as creepy and frightening as being a fifteen year old girl waiting for the bus, not scantily clad, and having a car full of men pull up offering a ride, saying, "Hey, baby," etc. As if that wasn't bad enough, when I would politely decline, the car would circle the block, come back and ask again! And sometimes a third time. This happened on more than one occasion with one guy in a car and groups of guys in a car.
I'm with those who said that it is more frightening for women to be catcalled than men. Are men really afraid that six burly women are going to force them into the car and gang rape them?
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The one time that a carful of ladies stopped to 'catcall' me, they were just playing mind games. Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: I doubt that. How often do you walk near high traffic areas?
Edit: I'm doubting the uggo part. I've clicked on links you posted to pictures of yourself.
Often. Usually with my double stroller full of babies, though. Maybe that's it.
But really, I think I give off a "ignore me" vibe. Even when I didn't have the kids with me I never got cat-called, even walking alone downtown.
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posted
A lady yelled "Oh yeah!" out of her window at me once. But I'm pretty sure it's cause I was picking a wedgie at the time.
Catcalls are incredibly rude, for all of the reasons stated already. But I had no idea that guys would follow or stop or intimidate like that! That is really scary, and if any of you ladies aren't carrying mace or a related product, you oughta start. Being rude and forward is one thing, but when it gets to threatening situations, make them cry.
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I don't think it is unfortunate that there's a stigma attached to it, BlackBlade. Because even if there wasn't the attached level of threat, it's really, really rude.
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: Catcalls are incredibly rude, for all of the reasons stated already. But I had no idea that guys would follow or stop or intimidate like that!
In my younger days, the rare occurrence was the one where I smiled at a man in public when we made eye contact and did not get followed up on and pressured in ways that felt intimidating. It is a shame, because I would have liked to exchange friendliness.
Actually, a good bit of my courtship of my husband was exchanging erotic stories. In many of these, we would toss the story back and forth with weeks of two strangers making eye contact at a cafe, being shy, coming back, hesitating, a brief look, a smile, another week, etc. If only 'twere true, but then that's why it's called fantasy. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ElJay: I don't think it is unfortunate that there's a stigma attached to it, BlackBlade. Because even if there wasn't the attached level of threat, it's really, really rude.
I just don't see it that way.
When a car full of girls have whistled or given me cat calls I just take it as fun. I know for some girls I am cute, and for others absolutely nothing. The girls are in a car and probably heading for something, its not as if they can stop and properly introduce themselves even if they wanted to, but they want me to know they think I'm kinda *sexsay*. For me it always brightened my day to know that members of the opposite sex found me attractive.
You could call it insecurity I suppose as if I was REALLY confident I would see nothing of value in being flirted with in that manner. I personally can't remember ever giving a girl cat calls, its more my style to at a red light to give a smile if the car next to me is a girl (or girls) checking me out. I might bounce my eyebrows if she is really cute.
But obviously not anymore, my woman gets all the fawning I feel inclined to express.
edit: My wife gets whistled at relatively frequently, she just smiles and flashes her wedding ring. She usually tells me about it when she gets home with a sense of pride.
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But I'm sure the attitude would vary in different locales, possibly worsening in heavily urban areas.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Though I won't pretend I'm sort of ugly wretch either.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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That is really scary, and if any of you ladies aren't carrying mace or a related product, you oughta start. Being rude and forward is one thing, but when it gets to threatening situations, make them cry.
