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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (movie spoilers!) (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (movie spoilers!)
Chris Bridges
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Yup, Ava Kadavra. Kinda surprised me since I didn't remember her saying that in the book, but it makes sense.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
Narnia, Lyr:

I watched the film again. Bellatrix definitely says "Ava Kedavra" when she casts her curse.

I knew to watch for it but she definately says "Avara Kadavra." Spell was the same green that is has always been in the movie. Pretty sure they did it so there would be no confusion concerning Sirius being dead. I honestly had to reread that part in the book like 4 times before I understood what had just happened, and how Sirius was suddenly dead. It always bothered me that there was no sign or guard rail with something along the lines of, "You WILL die if you walk through here." Why do they even have that arch there?

Wait wait...let me guess....Its the "Department of Mysteries?! So its a mystery?"

edit: Incidentally I'll post my thoughts on the movie on Monday as anything to take my mind off work fore just a few minutes is welcome. Overall I greatly enjoyed it!

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Earendil18
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The film didn't move me either way really. It was "alright". I liked Luna, she was delightfully eccentric, and Umbridge was a real dog. Hagrid seemed out of place. He's all like "hey guys" for 2 scenes, and then he's gone. [Smile]

Harry's angst, while probably appropriate, is getting old.

Dumbledore still rocks.

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Jim-Me
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A few things I didn't see mentioned. Her part was too small, but I thought the woman who did Tonks really did well with the part and the effects of her doing animal faces at the table were neat. She was also *very* hawt, IMO.

I really liked the opening scene and how grown up it was... and really the rest of the movie, too. There was never the sense of real menace in any of the other films that there was in this one. But Dudley and his gang weren't there for comic relief and the dementor attack was, IMO, more frightening than the mass of them in Prisoner of Azkaban. The Death Eaters at the end were much more real threats and much less a bunch of bumbling adults who couldn't handle a small group of teenagers. For the first time they really seemed like a group of wizards and witches who could take over the world.

About the whirling, whooshing, smokey thing in the big battle at the end, three theories (not mutually exclusive):

1) it's to cause confusion, fear, and misdirection about what they're doing... all major elements in winning a fight.

2) is it possible there is a similar prohibition on Apparating at the Ministry as there is at Hogwarts? It would make a lot of sense, security-wise... including explaining the need for all the flues and lifts.

3) Disapparating takes, I believe, a few seconds concentration... you don't want to just stand there and think about where you're going when someone's hurling curses at you.

Beyond that, ditto to what everyone said abut Umbridge and Luna-- they were excellent. The movie *really* seems to be making a play for Luna and Harry to get together. The main characters have really improved their acting skills. Oldman was excellent as always. I was scared that Sirius had been too left out of the other movies for his death to make an impact here, but Oldman sold us on him very well.

But that brings us to my only real complaint with the movie.... for all his angst at the moment of death, Harry doesn't show one sign of remorse at the loss of Sirius afterwards. How hard would it be to show him crying as he packed is suitcase or something? After declaring that Sirius was the only family he had, Harry seems strangely unmoved by his loss.

But I really enjoyed it.

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Kwea
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He didn't seem unmoved to me at all.
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Jim-Me
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*shrug* maybe I have the emotional range of a teaspoon?
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Kwea
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lol

I doubt that....

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Glenn Arnold
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quote:
1) it's to cause confusion, fear, and misdirection about what they're doing... all major elements in winning a fight.

2) is it possible there is a similar prohibition on Apparating at the Ministry as there is at Hogwarts? It would make a lot of sense, security-wise... including explaining the need for all the flues and lifts.

3) Disapparating takes, I believe, a few seconds concentration... you don't want to just stand there and think about where you're going when someone's hurling curses at you.

I'll buy number 1, it definitely made it seem to me more like a magic battle than people standing around lobbing incantations at each other.

Number 2 is out; Arthur apparates to work. Somewhere it explains that a lot of adults don't even bother with apparation because it's difficult and dangerous.

My take was something similar to number 3. It seems to me that the battles were all fought in slow motion, except for the dialog. I viewed the smokey trails as what apparition would look like in slow motion.

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Narnia
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Ahem. I never questioned the movie spell. [Smile] I'm glad it's now clear that it was GREEN and the killing curse.

I just saw it again last night and it withstood further scrutiny. But, to be honest, this movie is so good that I'm not really aware enough to scrutinize it. Let's just say that it still doesn't feel too long or too short, and I enjoyed every minute of it the second time through. I noticed that Lucius does explain that Harry is the only one who can get the prophesy (but it's one line and I don't think many people will get that in one viewing), and I noticed that Kreacher was talking to Mrs. Black's portrait and that she actually answered him from under the covering. Again, something else you'd miss on one viewing, but tons of fun anyway. [Smile]

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Leonide
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Everyone: Avada Kedavra.

just for accuracy's sake [Smile]

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:
1) it's to cause confusion, fear, and misdirection about what they're doing... all major elements in winning a fight.

2) is it possible there is a similar prohibition on Apparating at the Ministry as there is at Hogwarts? It would make a lot of sense, security-wise... including explaining the need for all the flues and lifts.

3) Disapparating takes, I believe, a few seconds concentration... you don't want to just stand there and think about where you're going when someone's hurling curses at you.

I'll buy number 1, it definitely made it seem to me more like a magic battle than people standing around lobbing incantations at each other.

Number 2 is out; Arthur apparates to work. Somewhere it explains that a lot of adults don't even bother with apparation because it's difficult and dangerous.

My take was something similar to number 3. It seems to me that the battles were all fought in slow motion, except for the dialog. I viewed the smokey trails as what apparition would look like in slow motion.

He Apparates, but perhaps not inside the building itself. And most not into the Hall of Mysteries, where every attempt of made to keep things secure..
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rivka
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Yeah, it seems quite likely that different security rules (and spells) apply in the entry lobby and within the Department of Mysteries.
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Uprooted
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Does anyone else find it hard to take Avada Kedavra seriously as the most forbidden, evil, and lethal spell because it sounds way too much like Abracadabra? I have no idea if there's any serious etymology in there (cadabra/Kedavra do sound an awful lot like cadaver); but Abracadabra meant "silly meaningless parody of a magical incantation" to my mind long before I knew the meaning of the word "cadaver," s it's hard for me to give it any serious connotations.
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Kwea
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Yes, I had noticed that. I have a problem with that spell in general, and feel it weakens the entire stoyline and world, to be honest, long before I ever saw it in any of the movies.


All spells in combat could cause death, and do cause pain. Why would a spell be evil, or more evil, because it does it more effectivly?

If you are willing to kill, why would using that spell make you more evil?

Why would anyone ever use anything other than that spell in combat? Or at least why would anyone already evil not use it more?


It really threw me out of the world when I read about it. If it existed, it should not be as simple as it is, nor should it be usable in combat because of it's difficulty.

Perhaps it would work as a ritual, or something other than a flick of the wrist, but I think it makes the whole story less, IMO.

[ July 15, 2007, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]

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Uprooted
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Kwea, I agree. Then again, spells, period, are not well explained in the series.
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Leonide
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I think they do explain that you have to actually hate the person you're trying to curse fairly strongly -- i.e., have a lot of bile and anger and "evil" behind the spell, for it to work properly at all.

I was especially confused in the movie when Bellatrix screamed and collapsed in the main hall of the ministry of magic, lip quivering as she watched Harry step towards her. Was she faking it? I was under the impression that Harry did not manage the Crucio in the book, and she mocked him for not meaning it. Anyone remember definitely?

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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
I was especially confused in the movie when Bellatrix screamed and collapsed in the main hall of the ministry of magic, lip quivering as she watched Harry step towards her. Was she faking it? I was under the impression that Harry did not manage the Crucio in the book, and she mocked him for not meaning it. Anyone remember definitely?

In the film it sounded like when she fell she lost her wand. So I'm under the impression that she was just hamming it up, trying to get Harry close enough to snatch his wand. And besides, Harry is a goody goody...she might have got off with the sniveling because he's a white hat and won't kill an unarmed opponent.
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MidnightBlue
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Was anyone else completely confused when Harry suddenly mastered Occlumency? He still hasn't managed that in the sixth book, and I don't know how they'll reconcile that in the next two movies. However, that was the only part of the movie that left a bad taste in my mouth. I loved the rest of it, though I avoided rereading the book so that I wouldn't notice what was missing as much. I loved the look on Ginny's face when they were all walking back from the first information/signup meeting for the DA. Right after Hermione tells Harry that Cho couldn't keep her eyes off him.
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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by MidnightBlue:
Was anyone else completely confused when Harry suddenly mastered Occlumency? He still hasn't managed that in the sixth book, and I don't know how they'll reconcile that in the next two movies.

When did he master it? He was able to respond with a shield charm, just as he was able to do in the book. That allowed him to see inside some of Snape's thoughts. All they did in the movie was cut out the Penseive.
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by MidnightBlue:
Was anyone else completely confused when Harry suddenly mastered Occlumency?

[Confused]

But he didn't do that in this movie.

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pooka
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Yeah, it wasn't occlumency, it was reverse legilimency. Also... crap, I'll just have to check out the book again and recheck that scene. Who says Harry really accessed his worst memory?

I was disappointed with the climax at first, though I think I've come to understand what they were trying to do, and I don't know that I have any better idea on how that moment could have translated to film. I think this was better than 4, but not in the same class as 3.

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Puffy Treat
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J.K. Rowling titled the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory", though I believe in the film they've deleted the reason why Snape considered that to be his "worst" one.
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BlackBlade
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Random thoughts,

I wish they had kept the part where Dudley punches Harry as the dementors attacked as that greatly increased the tension for me and Harry being nearly taken out by a dementor makes more sense in that context. Harry has beaten off MANY dementors, just letting one waltz up and grab him seemed alittle wrong.

The news report stating the degrees in celsius made me happy, and then he clarified what that temperature was in fahrenheit and I was disappointed, broke my immersion just alittle bit but not a big deal.

Tonks was REALLY cute, and her personality was really bright, I liked her alot, good casting choice. I hope she can pull of the sharp contrast of her character in book 6. Kingsley was exactly as I imagined him, I enjoyed his line right out of the book about, Dumbledore, like him or hate him, has alot of style. I wish they could have found a way to show that Kingsley actually helped Dumbledore make his escape.

Luna Lovegood was actually a bit different then how I had pictured her in the books, but the movie made her VERY likeable and much more interesting, so gratz to the movie makers for doings something my mind failed to do.

Umbridge was however EXACTLY how I imagined her, and I loved every minute of it.

Dumbledore is getting better and better as far as I am concerned, definately redeemed himself as far as I am concerned from that ODD scene where he banged Harry into a cabinet and held him by his collar in TGOF. His fight with Voldemort was really enjoyable, I liked how both of them used spells that took advantage of their surroundings rather then just shooting spells back and forth.

I didn't like that Fudge as he walks in sees Voldemort fade away so quickly and then say without hesitation, "He's back!" I would have let him see Voldemort for about 4-5 seconds before he disappeared as somebody who was in denial THAT much could easily see a quick vaporization as their mind playing tricks on them, or worse Dumbledore playing tricks on him.

It kinda sucks that the killing curse can hit you in the hip and thats it, game over. Sirius dying that way just seemed horrendously unfair because of that. I always assumed the curse hit you and then sorta engulfed you for a moment like in the 4th movie where Cedric is killed.

Harry's angst as a rule was well done in the movie, I can see why in the movie they did not have him trash Dumbledore's office, but I still kinda wanted to see it even though when I read it I was pretty fed up with Harry's emo teen angst schtick.

Ron and Hermione are heading in the right direction, you can clearly see the beginnings of more then just friendship [Smile]

But they made Luna so good that I thought Harry was starting to like her a bit, they completely neglected the beginnings of Harry and Ginny's sparks which are clearly identified at the end of book 5. It would have been nice to see a quick glimpse of what is a HUGE feature of book 6.

I liked the look of young James Potter in Snape's memory, he definately looked like Harry but just alittle different.

Daniel Radcliff can act?! He should do another stage play if its going to have THAT effect on his ability to be Harry Potter.

Did it seem like Grawp was too cute to be a giant? I guess again my mind had one picture and it was not CLOSE to the movie. But then again Hagrid's father being a human and hooking up with a giant just seemed like a hard stretch so I suppose Grawp needed to look likeable for a human and a giant to be able to reproduce.

Fred and George really did well for themselves in this movie. Their journey towards just quitting school was believable to me, and it was fun to watch.

I was at first annoyed that it was Cho who sold them out in the movie but Snape's mention of Umbridge using the last of the truth serum on "Ms. Chang" actually made me like the movie's take better then the book. edit: But then they never tied up the loose end of the members of DA mistakenly thinking she had sold them out and Harry never spoke to her again. Seems like it needs to be tied up.

Neville saying he was proud to be his parents son but just was not willing to let everyone know it yet was really good, especially when coupled with the scene where he tell Harry, "Don't give it to him Harry!" when the Death Eaters have them all restrained at the dept of mysteries. I thought it definately showed that Harry was thinking about saving his friends, but gained courage from Nevilles, refusal to give in.

End of random thoughts [Smile]

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Kingsley was exactly as I imagined him, I enjoyed his line right out of the book about, Dumbledore, like him or hate him, has alot of style.

In the book, the line is not his. It belongs to the portrait of Phineas Nigellus Black.

It is a great line, though. [Big Grin]

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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Kingsley was exactly as I imagined him, I enjoyed his line right out of the book about, Dumbledore, like him or hate him, has alot of style.

In the book, the line is not his. It belongs to the portrait of Phineas Nigellus Black.

It is a great line, though. [Big Grin]

Brilliant line. One of the few times I've ever laughed out loud while reading a book, and the theater I was in yesterday absolutely loved it.

Oh, and I have to put in my two cents that, yes, Tonks was VERY hawt. [Big Grin]

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Kingsley was exactly as I imagined him, I enjoyed his line right out of the book about, Dumbledore, like him or hate him, has alot of style.

In the book, the line is not his. It belongs to the portrait of Phineas Nigellus Black.

It is a great line, though. [Big Grin]

You just wait until I get home and grab my copy of the book!
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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Kingsley was exactly as I imagined him, I enjoyed his line right out of the book about, Dumbledore, like him or hate him, has alot of style.

In the book, the line is not his. It belongs to the portrait of Phineas Nigellus Black.

It is a great line, though. [Big Grin]

You just wait until I get home and grab my copy of the book!
Haha, sorry to gang up on you BB, but it was Nigellus who said it in the book.
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Puffy Treat
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The line is right out of the book, but rivka is right, it's the portrait of Hogwarts most unpopular headmaster who said it.
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Tara
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Kwea -- I think Rowling's defense of the Avada Kedavra spell would be something like this: In order for the spell to work you have to truly have a desire to kill the person; therefore, Dumbledore could not use it, because he believes that to kill someone would be worse than dying yourself.

Most of the spells that are generally taught in DADA classes seem to be disabling spells -- Expelliarmus, the immobilizing charm, Stunning, the shield charm, etc, rather than spells that cause a lot of pain or injury. These are the kinds of spells that Dumbledore uses.

There's always the question of whether Dumbledore or Harry would be willing to use the Killing curse on Voldemort himself. Harry would probably say that Voldemort definitely deserves to be killed since Harry has so much anger towards him, but Dumbledore would probably try to defeat Voldemort by weakening him and turning away his followers rather than straight-up murdering him. This would give him time to repent before he dies, because love is the most powerful magic, etc.

The Killing curse is Voldemort's most useful spell; he can use it because he truly wants to kill people. There is no one in the world he really loves, and therefore he doesn't feel the tragedy of a death. He is so afraid of his own death that he is willing to kill multiple times to avoid it.
The Death Eaters can use the spell because if they do not kill the people they are supposed to kill, Voldemort will kill them and their whole families.

The way Dumbledore sees it though, it is better to die than be alive with the memory of murdering someone, and Harry will probably believe that too by the end.

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rivka
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I'm in the middle of re-reading book 5. When I hit that line yesterday, I noticed that it was said by a different character than in the movie. Although I think the change made sense -- for the movie, it worked better this way.
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Amilia
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quote:
I wish they had kept the part where Dudley punches Harry as the dementors attacked as that greatly increased the tension for me and Harry being nearly taken out by a dementor makes more sense in that context. Harry has beaten off MANY dementors, just letting one waltz up and grab him seemed alittle wrong.
But to fight off dementors, you have to think happy thoughts. Harry is in a slump. As someone who has struggled with low grade depression for years, I can tell you that coming up with happy thoughts in the middle of a slump is Not Easy.
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xtownaga
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quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
Gambon made Dumbledore appear to be struggling with Voldemort. The stronger he attempts to look, the weaker the character appears. Dumbledore's immense power can only be demonstrated through understatement. Harris had that in spades. I don't think Gambon has even read the books.

I read an interview with Gambon a few years back (around the release of either the third or fourth movie, but I can't remember which). He said that not only had he never read the books, but something like "I'm not a character actor, I just read the lines the way I would say them" [Wall Bash]

That approach can work fine in many situations IMHO, but not when you're trying to portray a loved, well established character like Dumbledore. That being said he was much closer to doing Dumbledore "right" in this movie than either of the other two, though I doubt he'll ever reach the perfection that Harris had in the first two movies.

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beverly
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Just saw it today. Ahhh, marvelous! Would love to see it again soon!

I love the portrayal of Umbridge! I didn't "read" book 5, I listened to it. So my mental image of Umbridge was very much affected by Jim Dale's voice-work. In my mind, she was a hideous, bloated, characature of a human. Grotesqueness trying its best to look powderingly feminine.

But Imelda's Umbridge has completely re-written that image, for which I am deeply grateful! The Umbridge I imagined before was wholely unpleasant, while Imelda managed to make the character entertaining to watch. You look at her cute little smile plastered to her face and her madly twinkling eyes--she looks like she's about to loose it half the time--and you think, "This woman is NUTTERS!!"

And Luna, oh how wonderful! Listening to Jim Dale's ugly, stupid-sounding voice for her, she comes across as dull and annoying. In the movie she was brought to life! You could see her integrity, her wisdom, her solid sense of self, utterly unruffled by the annoyances about her. She is admirable! She embodies the sentiment, "If people don't like you, it's their loss, not yours."

And while the chemistry between her and Harry did seem to weaken the chemistry with Cho, it doesn't lead me to think that she and Harry are destined for each other. There are friendships that are deep and pure that just don't have the spark of romance to them.

Sadly, the movie failed to convey the powerful feelings of infatuation Harry had towards Cho. The fact is, the spark between them *was* rather superficial, and to that, I believe the movie is faithful. Ooo, you're cute and fun to kiss! Uh, now we have nothing to talk about....

I loved Hagrid's brother! You see, I have an 18 month angel of a little boy, and I just couldn't help but imagine a 30 foot toddler. The image melted my heart. A 30 foot toddler is at once endearing and terrifying. Very terrifying. [Smile] I liked that he didn't really speak. There tends to be an unconscious prejudice against poor speech, and his muteness seems to give him more depth.

Loved the sparkle that the heavyweight actors brought to the movie in their short, minimal scenes. I will always adore Alan Rickman. [Smile] I already had an unexplicable liking for Snape, and Alan Rickman only deepened that for me. (On the subject of liking Snape: Bother!)

[ July 20, 2007, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]

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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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I was bored. The message about these kids standing behind Harry is a great message, but the way it was pulled off was hokey. The giant kid broke my heart. How is it humane to keep him tied to a stump in the forest? Neville's development was handled well, but the highlight of the movie, for me, was Ginny. I did like how they handled Ginny. Halfway through the movie, I thought, who cares about Harry Potter, does anybody realize that this girl is awesome? I know the whole story is about the angst of Harry Potter, but I'd like to watch a movie about the quiet little Weasley girl who is awesome. If were picking teams, I'd pick Ginny over Harry and Hermione.

[ July 20, 2007, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]

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rivka
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Those puppets are BIZARRE. I think this one is my favorite.
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beverly
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:lol:

I hadn't seen that one. [Smile]

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pooka
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Re: Gambon, he's probably going with the Clark Gable school of acting. I don't think he's quite as brilliant as that, but he does well. He is Dumbledore, whereas Professor McGonagal is Maggie Smith. Emma Thompson is trying to be Trelawney, but it breaks my suspension of disbelief. Alan Rickman is awesome, though. But imagine if Michael Caine were Dumbledore. We wouldn't be able to forget it, I don't think.

Well now wonder he hasn't had time to read the books. Do you see how many movies he's in? Also, what book was actually out when he got hired on. If it was Order of the Phoenix, forget it. And the books are from Harry's viewpoint anyway, I don't think they would be essential to him acting Dumbledore.

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rivka
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I think Emma Thompson's Trelawney is exactly right. Ditto for Maggie Smith's McGonagall.
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Bob the Lawyer
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quote:
"I'm not a character actor, I just read the lines the way I would say them"
Just so you know, the wallbash is somewhat unwarranted. That quote is essentially the essence of method acting.
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Telperion the Silver
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quote:
Originally posted by aspectre:
And who can ever forget the scene in which Hermione discovers that Harry has joined the Village People.

omg... HOT!
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob the Lawyer:
quote:
"I'm not a character actor, I just read the lines the way I would say them"
Just so you know, the wallbash is somewhat unwarranted. That quote is essentially the essence of method acting.
I don't ad lib, I just make it up as I go along!
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Christine
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Finally saw the movie last night as part of the start of my Harry Potter weekend. Very dark. Pretty well done. Overall, it may be my favorite, but I may have to watch it again to be sure. There were definitely a few things I wouldn't have done the way they did -- especially the part where Ginny, Neville, and Luna randomly show up in Umbridge's office in the end with no real explanation other than, in my mind, "Well, they have to be there for the last adventure because they were in the book!" I also thought Fred and George's antics were squashed too flimsily into one scene that then rushed into the ending in a whirlwind that kind of felt like, "Oops, we're running low on time, better combine five things that happen in the book into one scene to save space." The pacing was definitely inconsistent....slow bits interspersed with fast-paced or deeply emotional bits.

But Daniel Radcliffe definitely learned to act. Umbridge was wonderful. Luna was good. The portrayal of what Harry was going through was EXCELLENT and POWERFUL -- even complimenting what was in the book to help bring it to life a bit more and help you to really understand his anger better.

Oh, and I just cracked up when Harry pulled his wand on Dudley at the beginning. I mean, yeah, we knew what the threat was but I instantly saw it from the POV of Dudley's friends and cracked up.

Anyway, a bit late in coming but there's my thoughts on it.

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AvidReader
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I also saw it last night and thought it was pretty good. I didn't have a problem following the plot without reading the book, so if there were bits that should have confused me, I missed them completely.

The hardest thing for me was trying to remember that high school trapped feeling. When Umbridge got nuts, why didn't people just start transfering? I've quit jobs that were less oppressive than that. I had to remind myself that these are kids and no one cares if they hate school. They expect them to.

But I still think Harry should have hired Mrs. Weasley to be his private tutor. I saw the giant vault of money in the first movie; he can afford it. That gets him away from the crazy family and out of Umbridge's way.

Also, most of these kids have at least one magical parent, right? So where the heck are they? The kids didn't write home about Umbridge carving words into their hands? No one bothered to check up on her? I had trouble pushing the "I believe" button on that point.

Goblet of Fire is still my favorite so far, but the Dumbledore/Voldemort fight was easily one of the greatest of all time. They made Gandalf and Saurumon look like ameteurs.

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1lobo1
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I haven't read any of the HP books. I could never get into them. Other than POA, the rest of the HP movies have only been so-so.

This movie, however, was fantastic.

I only have one real complaint -- when Harry starts to hand over the prophesy to the blond baddy....up to that point I thought the entire film combined with the last film was leading up to Harry's understanding that big things were at stake, that he would have to make tough choices that would have consequences on those that chose to help him.......I was let down when Harry didn't smash the orb rather than hand it over. Sure, I didn't expect the friends to die, but I did expect HP to reach a level of understanding about the seriousness of everything....that things and people would have to be sacrificed even if it tormented him in the end -- and it would have strengthened even more HP's realiziation of what made him stronger than Voldemort - his friendships, etc...........I really was lead to beleive that this was how things were going to turn out (HP's angst over that other kid's death, his attempts at pushing people away, and finally his accepting of their help -- combined with finally being exposed to the Adult world, that the kids just are in over their heads, that real power is at use, and serious consequences are at hand....)

Anyway, that may not be a theme in the books, but I thought the film wasted a great opportunity for a further maturation point for HP....

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