posted
In an alternate Potterverse, Lord Voldemort, at the height of his powers, with all six of his horcruxes intact, is bored with his life. Experimenting with time travel, he arrives in a dark and forboding plain encircled by mountains, with only a large volcano and an enormous black tower to break the monotony. Assuming, as is his wont, that the world is his for the taking, Voldemort apparates to the top of the tower, where he is confronted by a huge form in menacing armor, contemplating him silently. Rather taken aback, Voldemort draws his wand. The huge form shifts his hands, and Voldemort's gaze is drawn to a ring on its index finger.
Who wins? Voldemort and his horcruxes or Sauron and his Ring of Power?
Posts: 127 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Your Sauron is the movie version, so I'd give it to Voldemort. The book Sauron would waste Voldemort.
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
That's sort of like taking a knife to gun fight, isn't it?
Actually, it's more like taking a knife to a thermo-nuclear war. Voldemort couldn't beat Gandalf, let alone a ringed Sauron.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Agreed, Sauron owns. Hell I'd say Galadriel could take Voldemort if she was using Nenya, being one of the last of a House that fought of Melkor, who dwarfs Sauron's power, for an Age, I think she could take him.
Better question would be Gandalf vs. Dumbledore.
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posted
If Gandalf and Dumbledore met they'd spend half an hour doing the ol' mirror routine before either of them could figure out they weren't the same person.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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The thing about this comparison is do we take everything at face value? Does a killing curse work on Sauron if it hits anywhere? Is Sauron aware of this curse or Voldemorts abilities? If horocruxes work wouldn't anything Sauron does fail to kill Voldy? Is Voldemort capable of being in awe of Saurons power and as a result learning from that branch of magic? Why can't Voldemort ask to be servant while plotting Sauron's demise?
I think if you simply threw Tom and Sauron into the arena, and assuming both are beatable, Sauron based on his vast greater experience and power would beat Voldemort who would not know what to make of Sauron as he has always fancied himself the most evil thing around.
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posted
Coming in late, here, but Sauron is among the most powerful (or is he the most powerful) of the Maiar. The Maiar are only minor gods, but even with his horcruxes, Voldemort is just a man. Sauron would bind him to his will faster than you could say "taters". That or just kill him.
posted
I've been thinking about the differences between the portrayal of evil characters in LotR and HP. It seems to me that Voldemort is little more than a terrorist. In other words, he is bent on destruction for its own sake rather than domination. Also, he apparently has little influence over world events. While he certainly can, and does, go and kill people in other countries, these are isolated incidents, and he has no followers (that I know of) outside of the British Isles. In 7 we did get to see him begin his take over of England, and perhaps from there he would have gone on to form an empire with the goal of conquering the world, but that will remain unknown to us.
Sauron, on the other hand, was THE main influence in Middle Earth for thousands of years. He DID create an empire capable of conquering the world and he DID persuade the powers that be (Numenorians for the most part) to bend to his will. For this reason, Sauron wins.
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quote:Does a killing curse work on Sauron if it hits anywhere?
Sauron survived a divinely-created cataclysm that destroyed a large island. Avada Kadavra is like a sneeze compared to that.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Does a killing curse work on Sauron if it hits anywhere?
Sauron survived a divinely-created cataclysm that destroyed a large island. Avada Kadavra is like a sneeze compared to that.
Exactly, so we can't really take anything at face value. The magic in the Potterverse seems like it is orders of magnitude weaker then the magic you might see in Middle-Earth.
edit: Also Voldemort lived what 50+ years? Sauron counts his age in millenia? Maybe if Voldemort had an endless supply of magical tomes that he could spend his time studying he might have a chance once he reaches his 50th centenial millenial year.
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posted
Well... We get told a lot about how powerful the One Ring is, but we never actually see it do anything other than make its bearer invisible and attract the attention of his enemies. The Potterverse has this level of magic in gimmick items that are given out to school children! In a similar vein, the Nazgul are very scary magic creatures and all, but they seem to rely on swords to do any actual killing. There doesn't seem to be any death-curse equivalent in Middle-Earth, or presumably Sauron would use it; so it's unlikely he has any defenses against that sort of magic. I think Voldemort might have a pretty good chance.
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posted
Compared to magic-users in other fantasy lands all around, the Potterverse wizards seem a tad under-powered.
Jadis: Empress of Charn, later the White Witch of Narnia. On her home world her magic was incalculably powerful, including knowledge of a Deplorable Word that allowed her to destroy the entire population of her planet down to the smallest insect. Able to destroy buildings with a gesture, read minds, super-humanly strong.
After eating the Apple of Youth in Narnia became ageless. Able to command the very elements, turn enemies to stone, knew all manner of dark spells and tricks. Ruled with an iron grip for a century. Could only be defeated by the conditions of an ancient prophecy concerning four specific children of a certain origin and an omnipotent Lion being fulfilled. Though as we learn later: "But whoever heard of a Witch who really died?"
Compared to that, Voldie looks like a bit of a poser.
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Well... We get told a lot about how powerful the One Ring is, but we never actually see it do anything other than make its bearer invisible and attract the attention of his enemies.
Galadriel explained that. The One Ring only will perform according to the strength of will and innate vitality of its current Bearer. She told Frodo if he wanted to do more with it, he'd have to become much stronger himself...and even then it would eventually use him up. In the hands of a Noldor or a Maiar though...
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Well... We get told a lot about how powerful the One Ring is, but we never actually see it do anything other than make its bearer invisible and attract the attention of his enemies.
Galadriel explained that. The One Ring only will perform according to the strength of vitality of its current Bearer. She told Frodo if he wanted to do more with it, he'd have to become much stronger himself...and even then it would eventually use him up. In the hands of a Noldor or a Maiar though...
Or in the hands of Aragorn, which is what Sauron was most afraid would happen.
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posted
Yeah, one of Numenorean descent could conceivably have done great, terrible things with the Ring.
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I dunno. Looking at the Gaunt family, I get the feeling that even if Merope had lived and raised him, he'd still have some serious mental and emotional health issues.
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posted
For one, I doubt he'd have been head boy after he nailed a basilisk to the front door of Hogwarts.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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May I suggest you rename this thread to a general ultimate showdown thread. You can update the title to reflect the current one. Maybe you'll have a never-ending thread. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:There's no doubt that evil in the HP books is a much more human evil.
True. Voldemort is really sort of an amped up serial killer psychopath.
It's interesting that he started out as a much more Sauron-like force in the world, and slowly got humanized as the series went on.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: It's interesting that he started out as a much more Sauron-like force in the world, and slowly got humanized as the series went on.
He finally started turning up on-page enough that we got to know him beyond his self-created myth.
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posted
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL, ONE RING TO FIND THEM. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL INTO THE DARKNESS BIND THEM!!!!Posts: 856 | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Sauron = minor god, and the most powerful of them at that. The killing spell would not work on him, he could only be destroyed by destroying the ring. Now maybe if voldy was smart, and apparated to the Cracks of Doom and then Accio One Ring...
But he's much more likely to be corrupted by it and then end up a mere wraith servant to Sauron
Hell even Gandalf was of the Maiar. Gandalf could have just stepped on Voldy. Gandalf took down a Balrog, another Maiar for crying out loud!
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
No, no, no. You've all got it wrong. See, Lord Foul would show up, having wrested the WHITE GOLD from Thomas Covenant, and unleash some wild magic that would just lay everything and everyone to waste.
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: Hell even Gandalf was of the Maiar. Gandalf could have just stepped on Voldy.
He was an artifically impotent Maiar. He had to be, for them to even let him come over to Middle Earth at all.
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posted
Googlefight isn't working. How will we ever know the answer? (umm, the answer to the OP, that is, not to Tatiana's question!)
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:He was an artifically impotent Maiar. He had to be, for them to even let him come over to Middle Earth at all.
He took down a Balrog! Balrog's weren't restrained by the rules of the Valar. And the Istari weren't completely impotent, they were just limited in the powers they could use. The Istari were sent by the Valar as the Valar's emissaries and as aid to the people of Middle earth in fighting Sauron. So they couldn't use the full power of the Maiar, but they were still wizards. They still had power.
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quote:Does a killing curse work on Sauron if it hits anywhere?
Sauron survived a divinely-created cataclysm that destroyed a large island. Avada Kadavra is like a sneeze compared to that.
While I agree with your conclusions, I feel compelled to point out that this cataclysm seriously screwed Sauron up. IIRC, he couldn't manifest himself in human form, and even when he could, he could no longer take a form pleasing to mortals. Sounds like what happened to Tom when he was left to survive on his horcruxes after his first failed killing curse. Who knows? Maybe the One Ring WAS the original horcrux!
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Incidently, I believe this was pre-one Ring. Also surviving in that manner after facing the rage of the Valar (the gods) which sank an island and killed much of a people vs. surviving in that manner after a single killing curse (which, while we were initially told couldn't be blocked, later experience suggests that it can be blocked).
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Well... We get told a lot about how powerful the One Ring is, but we never actually see it do anything other than make its bearer invisible and attract the attention of his enemies.
Galadriel explained that. The One Ring only will perform according to the strength of will and innate vitality of its current Bearer. She told Frodo if he wanted to do more with it, he'd have to become much stronger himself...and even then it would eventually use him up. In the hands of a Noldor or a Maiar though...
Well, that doesn't make any sense. Frodo is the one character who has the strength of will to resist being corrupted by the Ring. And as for vitality, he marches through the blasted lands of Mordor on three crumbs of trail bread and a bit of encouragement from Sam.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Well, that doesn't make any sense. Frodo is the one character who has the strength of will to resist being corrupted by the Ring.
Someone didn't read all of the trilogy!
Frodo failed! He fell to temptation and was corrupted! The only reason the Ring got destroyed in the end was because Fate ensured Smeagol was around to bite Frodo's ring finger off before toppling into the cracks.
The only character in Middle Earth we -know- was beyond being corrupted by the Ring is Tom Bombadil...and that's because he has no desires, he just -is-.
Edit to add:
And furthermore, Galadriel's explanation never mentioned resisting temptation as a way to exercise the ring's full power. Quite the opposite.
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