quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: I've heard it said that everyone was "dead" for several billion years before they were born, and no one seems much bothered by it. Tongue-in-cheek as it is, it's a perspective that's given me comfort now and again.
I really like that, thanks. Posts: 299 | Registered: Jan 2007
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I'm pretty sure that Nathan2006 is not an orthodox Jew. I also don't think he's older than Megabyte.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:From the short summary at wiki of Sagan's beliefs, Sagan seems like a pantheist more than an atheist.
From what I understand of the term pantheist(depending on which definition you use) you can be both an atheist and a pantheist.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented or personified in the theological principle of an abstract 'god'. However, it is important to understand that Pantheists do not believe in a personal, creative deity or deities of any kind, the key feature which distinguishes them from panentheists and pandeists
atheism from wiki:
quote:Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheists are commonly assumed to be irreligious, some religions have been characterized as atheistic because of their lack of belief in a personal god
for instance, i would have no problem calling myself a pantheist under that definition, depending on how the word god was being used. If you want to take the universe, the laws it functions by, and all the matter within it and how it connects and interrelates and put it under the umbrella term "god", i have no problem with the use of that word. Though it does cause some confusion with the commonly accepted use.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: I'm pretty sure that Nathan2006 is not an orthodox Jew. I also don't think he's older than Megabyte.
I am entirely certain that he's not Jewish at all. (Seriously, Tom, the NT references weren't a give-away?) And he's college age.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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kmboots, I understand. The Bible criticism stuff doesn't need to end wit hthe conclusion that there's no God, after all.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Yes, but the thing with kmb is that there is no possible way for her to reach that conclusion, because she has chosen to believe.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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One of the things I've realized that I enjoy about being an atheist is that I don't have to try to fit new information into my current world view. I can expand my world view to include new information.
I also get to change my mind whenever something makes more sense, and I get to explain my views based on how I feel about them, rather than trying to figure out how my personal views fit into a pre-established paradigm which I refuse to deviate from. Nobody spits me out if I feel lukewarm about something Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: One of the things I've realized that I enjoy about being an atheist is that I don't have to try to fit new information into my current world view. I can expand my world view to include new information.
The moments of the expanding-worldview feeling are good ones Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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MightyCow, this is not exclusive to atheists. Lots of new stuff can fit into a world view that includes an infinite God. World views only have to be small when our idea of God is too small.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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kmbboots: I actually used to have an expanding view of God when I was religious. Eventually it expanded so far I realized that if there was a God, it was just a prime-mover or hands-free observer, so it was pointless to worship it, and meaningless in terms of social or moral obligations.
If God doesn't do anything, and there's no evidence He exists, I didn't see any reason to believe, and particularly no reason to worship or follow dogma which was attributed to such a figure by other people.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: for instance, i would have no problem calling myself a pantheist under that definition, depending on how the word god was being used. If you want to take the universe, the laws it functions by, and all the matter within it and how it connects and interrelates and put it under the umbrella term "god", i have no problem with the use of that word. Though it does cause some confusion with the commonly accepted use.
When theists talk of their god they treat it as the concept that guides and structures their life story, so you can use the "god" term for whatever defines your own. If that is the laws of the universe, then you would probably be a subscriber to science magazines or something. If what structures your life is human relationships. then you might use "god" to describe a universal love feeling. If you think that the development of Life/Consciousness is the primary story of human existence, you can see holiness in animals and plants and all that has come to evolve in ever-more-complex spirals to a point where we can even think about these thins.
People who don't choose the theist god story to define their life will latch on to something else that will help them define what is important, just, and moral. And there is nothing to prevent your worldview from being expanded when you learn something new. Religious people have a huge toolbox of stories to provide background for decisions. As an atheist, you have to invent your own, or gather them from the culture. As more and more people come together to refine the stories/guiding metaphors that define them, I think almost anybody could come up with a pretty good toolbox.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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