...Oxford only gives one - lacking in knowledge, uninformed, acting in a uncouth manner through lack of knowledge. What definition are you using?
Ah, but there is the rub. If'n ya tell folks that they're ignorant (on a topic)... ...they almost always assume that you are calling them stupid (in general).
That, I think, is a problem with using the term imprecisely. Particularly in this day of increasing specialization, we are all ignorant of a lot of things.
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Some of us appear to be ignorant of the definition of 'ignorant'. Which makes me extremely happy.
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How many of us know when to plant and reap a harvest, or how to skin and tan a hide, or how to carve a long bow, or how to spin wool into thread? These were common skills hundreds of years ago, and almost nobody knows how to do them today. Clearly we're all fools!
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Kinda like how a bacon&egg breakfast demonstrates the difference between involvement and commitment. The chicken is involved, and the pig is committed.
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Dan_raven - I admire your pluck, but I'm not sure that watching someone skin and tan a hide on TV or the internet makes you qualified to make yourself a buckskin jacket for winter survival Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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See, that's what I'm talking about! Give me gortex and a mummy bag. I'm only good with modern knowledge.
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quote: How many of us know when to plant and reap a harvest, or how to skin and tan a hide, or how to carve a long bow, or how to spin wool into thread? These were common skills hundreds of years ago, and almost nobody knows how to do them today. Clearly we're all fools!
I know how to reap a harvest and spin wool into thread, I have no desire to hunt or skin a hide.
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I figured you were Porter. I also know we are not the only ones on hatrack interested in that stuff. DKW, BannaOJ, and Stray all spin much better than I do. Crowswife, Beverly, and Porter are starting farms.
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Correction: dkw perhaps used to spin better than you do. I haven't touched my wheel in years, I'm not sure I could make a length of yarn now if I tried.
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Hey dkw, a while back on Sake you mentioned giving me your wheel for foster care after I moved to the Twin Cities? Yeah, that's gonna have to wait until I get my own place, right now I don't even have room to unpack all the stuff I brought with me, and there's really not much of that. But I'd still like to do that eventually, if you still want to Posts: 957 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I used to spin and weave before I became allergic to almost every animal fiber known to man.
I have participated in tanning a hide.
I've planted and harvested crops (albeit, in CA. Very mild weather much of the year, only some plants actually have sensitive growing seasons where I live.)
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I have some rabbit skins in my freezer that I'm wanting to tan. Unfortunately, it seems that nobody sells alum anymore (well, in sizes larger than a few ounces), so I need to figure out some other method.
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A bit off topic, but has anyone seen the movie Idiocracy, an SF comedy about how incredibly dumb the human race eventually becomes 500 years in the future? The premise is that over 500 years stupid people have outbred intelligent people. The main character played by Luke Wilson travels to the future and finds himself to be the smartest man on earth... by a lot.
It's a dumb movie. But kinda funny, nonetheless.
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I don't think this comment is fair by picking on US kids - I think kids in general are dumb as dirt. I know I was.
To add to the mix, here is a quote from Heinlein which is pretty on the money:
quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
Not that my battle plannig skills have ever been called upon (I wish I could say the same about daipers ).
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Specialization is for agriculture-based civilization. Non-specialization is for hunter-gatherer societies.
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Also, dyscalculia does NOT make a person dumb. I am beastly at math, terrible at making calculations in my head, but this really doesn't mean I'm stupid.
Sorry, but it does, in the sense that stupidity means an inability to solve problems. There is a class of problems you cannot solve; therefore, in that particular area, you are stupid. What you presumably meant was that this does not imply stupidity in other areas, a rather different concept.
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KQ, the spinning writer for www.knitty.com is allergic to animal fibers and uses silk, soy, and cotton almost exclusively (she may use bamboo and corn fibers occasionally).
Almost all of my weavings are done with cotton or rayon.
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Au contraire, King of Men, KipThorne's CalTech class could manipulate the equations but never noticed the wormhole behind them. Stupidity is assuming "What I do well is proof of intelligence." then leaping to the conclusion that those who are less adept at that particular task are less intelligent.
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I generally find this pattern of commentary, of self-degrading statements about how "stupid" we are and about how all our children are hopeless, and every other country is both morally and intellectually more advanced compared to Americans who are all glued to their televisions and concerned about the latest celebrity scandal just irritates me. For some reason people take pleasure in saying haha yeah look how dumb we are. I do not deny that there are people who are ridiculously naive and ignorant about simple things, and I will not attempt to say things about the population at large, as I am thinking now and recalling countless instances of insufferable ignorance.... But my family, myself, and my friends are quite intelligent, on the whole. I think my annoyance lies in those who say "oh, yeah, America's full of nothing but dummies," without providing a statistic for their assertion.
Such as this:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Humans: Dumber than dirt
Sigh... maybe I'm just a wishful thinker. And also:
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: [QUOTE] Ah, but there is the rub. If'n ya tell folks that they're ignorant (on a topic)... ...they almost always assume that you are calling them stupid (in general).
That assumption is because they truly are ignorant. (sighs at people like that)
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quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: KQ, the spinning writer for www.knitty.com is allergic to animal fibers and uses silk, soy, and cotton almost exclusively (she may use bamboo and corn fibers occasionally).
Almost all of my weavings are done with cotton or rayon.
That's very cool.
Unfortunately, I wasn't using my equipment, but sharing a friend's, and she raises rabbits (which is what I am MOST allergic to.)
I can't go over to her house at all anymore. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Aww yeah. Well you can still think about it in the future. I can't use angora rabbit, which is usually what most spinners who say rabbit mean. I have little to no problem with many types of wool (merino is amazing).
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Also, dyscalculia does NOT make a person dumb. I am beastly at math, terrible at making calculations in my head, but this really doesn't mean I'm stupid.
Sorry, but it does, in the sense that stupidity means an inability to solve problems. There is a class of problems you cannot solve; therefore, in that particular area, you are stupid. What you presumably meant was that this does not imply stupidity in other areas, a rather different concept.
I find it amusing that you posted this moments after a discussion of what "ignorance" means, because I think that's the word you're looking for, KoM.
In fact, what she meant was what she said: Inability to do math does not mean she's stupid. This is true. In the same way that the inability to do all the archaic (but once necessary) activities detailed earlier does not mean one is stupid. There is no need to add "in other areas". Any reasonable person should get that from context.
You might have a leg to stand on if she'd said "My inability to do math does not mean I'm stupid at math." But she didn't say that. And, unless the word "stupid" is used wildly different where you are, it's absurd to assume that's what she meant. "Stupid" is usually used as a more general indicator of intelligence, and looking at her post... Lo! That's the way she used it!
PS: I'm fairly certain Synesthesia is female, but if I'm wrong, let me know so I can edit out this PS and turn those all those she's into he's.
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quote:Originally posted by Eduardo St. Elmo: One of the worst examples of general ignorance that I've heard is the fact that a vast majority of the children doesn't know that milk comes from a cow
Why would they? I'm asking seriously -- most "city kids" have probably never been near a farm and I've certainly never seen "where foods come from" in a curriculum. It's one of those things that was obvious in the past and never needed to be taught, but isn't obvious any longer. It's not a mark of the kids being stupid if they don't know something that they have had no reason or opportunity to learn.
So, in honor of this post, I asked my <almost> 4-year-old daughter this morning where milk comes from.
"Cows" she said without hesitation.
"Who taught you that?" I asked, wondering if maybe it was her grandparents who live in a rural community. "Was it mom, or grandpa or me?"
"It was everyone, Dad," she said.
"Well what about eggs. Where do they come from?"
"From hens!"
"That's right."
Then I proceeded to tell her how many different animals make milk for their babies (she thought the idea of elephants making milk was very funny). I wonder how accurate the assertion that "a vast majority of children don't know that milk comes from a cow" really is. Not to generalize from one child, but somehow the message got through to her pretty loud and clear.
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Also, dyscalculia does NOT make a person dumb. I am beastly at math, terrible at making calculations in my head, but this really doesn't mean I'm stupid.
Sorry, but it does, in the sense that stupidity means an inability to solve problems. There is a class of problems you cannot solve; therefore, in that particular area, you are stupid. What you presumably meant was that this does not imply stupidity in other areas, a rather different concept.
I find it amusing that you posted this moments after a discussion of what "ignorance" means, because I think that's the word you're looking for, KoM.
I don't think it is. Syn is clearly not ignorant of mathematics: She's had the training and read the books. She just can't do it.
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Mr. Observant: Kids are stupid. Mr. Obvious: Could that be because they have not had time to learn everything you have had time to learn? Mr. Observant: No. They just spend too much time doing things that make them stupid. Mr. Obvious: You can learn from doing just about anything, although what you learn may not have tremendous value. Learning the proper sequence to save the world from alien conquest may not have any value unless the world is invaded by aliens in such a way that the skills you've learned on your Wii could.... Mr. Observant: No. You don't understand. Most kids today don't even know that Milk comes from Cows. Mr. Obvious: That's not true... Mr. Observant: Yes it is. I've seen the statistics. Do you think I'd make something like this up. Mr. Obvious: Probably, but what I mean is that the statement "Milk comes from cows" is false.
Mr. Observant: ....huh... Mr. Obvious: Milk comes from Mammary Glands in any female Mammal in good health who happens to be lactating. As such, the statement that "Milk comes from Cows" implying that all Milk comes from only Cows is wrong. Besides "Mother's Milk" from which most of us have had a taste or two as children, many people grow up only knowing Goats Milk, or Yak's Milk. There are many other milks out there besides your own narrow definition of Milk. In deed, by having such of narrow definition you are displaying your ignorance, and possibly Stupidity, not theirs.
Now why didn't I think of that before?
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Also, dyscalculia does NOT make a person dumb. I am beastly at math, terrible at making calculations in my head, but this really doesn't mean I'm stupid.
Sorry, but it does, in the sense that stupidity means an inability to solve problems. There is a class of problems you cannot solve; therefore, in that particular area, you are stupid. What you presumably meant was that this does not imply stupidity in other areas, a rather different concept.
I find it amusing that you posted this moments after a discussion of what "ignorance" means, because I think that's the word you're looking for, KoM.
I don't think it is. Syn is clearly not ignorant of mathematics: She's had the training and read the books. She just can't do it.
You're probably right, and I concede that point. But I stand by everything else.
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It's easy to look at kids in general and say that they're stupid, but it's hard to do any sort of comparison between kids of the current generation and kids of the previous generation. One potential counterpoint to the OP is that the college admissions process is a lot harder than it was forty years ago. I'm applying to around 10 colleges as are many of my classmates. For comparison, both of my parents only applied to four.
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