posted
On my drive in this morning I was completely surrounded by SUVs with one person each in them. Of course, I guess it's possible they were normally motorcyclists using the second car on account of the rain. I suppose that's why my husband would have been in a van today.
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posted
The Rev. Wright is speaking to the press club this morning. I only got to hear part of the speech as I was leaving for work, but he certainly sounded a great deal more like who I thought he was before all this soundbite controversy. He was putting the African American church and liberation theology in context in a very inspiring and scholarly way. For those of you who are interested, I highly recommend listening to it if it available later.
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posted
That use of inmates sounds totally bizarre, though for $100 set up fee, I'm not too up in arms. I guess it does substantiate the argument that the facility is rarely used on Mondays. I do think they will wind up having to reimburse the city for the difference in fees vs. what the democrat event paid.
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posted
I shoulda put an after my link. I mean WHAT could the mayor have been thinking? Uncompensated labor? In Alabama? Darn near free use of rental space? Good grief. Normally, ya'd hafta pay political consultants to dream up such schemes to sabotage the opponent.
Personally, I think the McCain campaign was bushwhacked by a well-meaning but overly "helpful" idiot. And while the campaign will probably not have to reimburse the city for the difference, I suspect that it will reimburse the city just to make sure that folks know that such "help" is NOT appreciated.
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quote: I only got to hear part of the speech as I was leaving for work, but he certainly sounded a great deal more like who I thought he was before all this soundbite controversy.
I only saw a portion of it this morning. I am no fan of Obama, but I think it is dirty how other politicians are trying to tie him to anti-Americanism.
That being said, I was not impressed with the portion I heard. It sounded like he was equating ANY attack on his controversial comments with an overall agenda of attacking the richness of black culture, history, and religion.
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quote:Personally, I think the McCain campaign was bushwhacked by a well-meaning but overly "helpful" idiot. And while the campaign will probably not have to reimburse the city for the difference, I suspect that it will reimburse the city just to make sure that folks know that such "help" is NOT appreciated.
I can't imagine that the campaign wasn't informed about these discounts when they made the contract. They should have insisted on paying the full cost then and not after the it hit the proverbial fan. This still could easily have been a mistake by a low level campaign person, but I'm sure the fault doesn't lie solely at the mayors end.
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quote:I can't imagine that the campaign wasn't informed about these discounts when they made the contract.
I've been quoted different prices for the same municipal facilities multiple times, including in situations when I have received discounts without being told. This has happened in at least one county and two cities.
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posted
There was an article on AOL today that Howard Dean says someone has to drop out in June. He's not saying who or that he can force them to, they will just know when it is time. Considering Hillary's hopes have depended on the convention since Super Tuesday, though, I really don't see that happening.
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: The Rev. Wright is speaking to the press club this morning. I only got to hear part of the speech as I was leaving for work, but he certainly sounded a great deal more like who I thought he was before all this soundbite controversy. He was putting the African American church and liberation theology in context in a very inspiring and scholarly way. For those of you who are interested, I highly recommend listening to it if it available later.
That's promising. He can't force anyone to drop out, but he can apply pressure to superdelegates to get them to support one side or the other. Maybe he's serious about having that Superdelegate convention in June.
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quote:I can't imagine that the campaign wasn't informed about these discounts when they made the contract.
I've been quoted different prices for the same municipal facilities multiple times, including in situations when I have received discounts without being told. This has happened in at least one county and two cities.
How did you find out that you had received a discount if you weren't told? (honest question, not intended to be rhetorical).
I understand what you are saying about verbal quotes, but in my experience the discount is always listed on the contract when you finally get it in writing.
I honestly don't know whether accepting this kind of in kind donation violates federal election laws or not. I am however quite confident that it would violate the local statutes for the mayor to donate public tax payer resources for use in a political campaign.
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posted
The soundbit I heard on the radio this morning suggests an ongoing disaster, which was "an attack on Rev. Wright is an attack on the black church." I have some doubt that's an accurate summation, but I really think Wright is on a whole different planet from Obama philosophically and he thinks he's helping, but he's not.
I guess this is the quote from his transcript:
quote:And I stand before you to open up this two-day symposium with the hope that this most recent attack on the black church is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright; it is an attack on the black church.
posted
I was very moved by the "God with us" paragraph and the Gospel of transformation. He clearly has brought forth the fruits of Christianity. I love Isaiah 61 and Luke 4. But what happened in Luke 4? His hometown synagogue tried to kill Jesus right then and there.
Here's the trouble:
quote:Now, the implications from the outside are obvious. If I see God as male, if I see God as white male, if I see God as superior, as God over us and not Immanuel, which means "God with us," if I see God as mean, vengeful, authoritarian, sexist, or misogynist, then I see humans through that lens.
How can there be reconciliation? Wright assumes white men are hateful. I'm not Jewish [white, in Wright's view] or male, but that is the tabernacle of flesh Jesus conducted his mortal walk in.
Loving someone different from me does not require me to hate myself. I think that's what Wright wants to say, but he's stuck on the wrongs done in the past. He's calling for confession from the captors, but that's not how it works. Redemption and reconciliation call on the grace and virtue of the Lord because it is beyond the power of humans.
That is what first attracted me to Obama, that we let go of our victimhood as minorities. Wright speaks of the value of "Fresh Africans", he needs to learn from Obama.
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: The soundbit I heard on the radio this morning suggests an ongoing disaster, which was "an attack on Rev. Wright is an attack on the black church." I have some doubt that's an accurate summation, but I really think Wright is on a whole different planet from Obama philosophically and he thinks he's helping, but he's not.
I guess this is the quote from his transcript:
quote:And I stand before you to open up this two-day symposium with the hope that this most recent attack on the black church is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright; it is an attack on the black church.
I don't think that he thinks he is helping. I am not sure that he has any interest at all in seeing Obama elected. He is smart enough to know that every word out of his mouth hurts Obama. I think. On the one hand, he is scholarly and intelligent and reasoned and then he gets almost ego maniacal and crazy. The difference between his prepared speech and the question period afterwards was striking. I don't know whether he has always been this way, but I suspect that his behavior and his retirement could be indicators of something - age, disease - going wrong with his brain.
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posted
I need to stop paying attention. I'm just getting too frustrated and enraged at the whole gorram mess. Obama tried so hard to rise above the sticking pile of dog crap that has been American Politics for as long as I can remember (admittedly I'm young). And he didn't just try to rise above it, he tried to bring everyone else up to join him. The other candidates, the media, the voters, everyone. But no, they all refused to let him change politics for the better. They all dragged him down as hard as they could. It took them a while, but they succeeded, and now he's down. How do you get back up from that? How do you climb out of the dirt and mud once you've been so completely dogpiled, shake off the dogpile and rise above it all again? Every time he tries to get back up they just tackle him again.
It's like watching a kid who doesn't really want to fight, he just wants to talk, get attacked by a tough old street gang. He tries to talk through their differences and the street gang just hits him. He doesn't want to hit back but every now and again while being pummeled by blows he lashes out in an attempt to get some breathing time. And they taunt him for it and use it as an excuse to hit him some more, "Look he tried to hit me! That means I can hit him more, in self defense!" Part of me wants him to just let lose and pummel them all into the dirt, he's capable of it and they've given him more than enough ammunition. But if he does that he's failed, politics won't have changed, he won't have risen above them, he'll have joined them.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Maybe Wright assumes that Obama will get beaten in the general if not in the primary, and the "black church" may as well get some quality press out of him while he's on top. I put the scare quotes because I'm really confused by that moniker. I mean, the UCC came out and defended Wright earlier, and now he's saying it's about a shadow church. Does this black church include all black Christianity, or is it aligned with the Nation of Islam?
I share your frustration about Obama, Alcon. It's strange that as weird as wright's speech was, it took me back to when I first read about Obama, and I have to forgive him for the whole "bitter" thing.
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quote:How did you find out that you had received a discount if you weren't told? (honest question, not intended to be rhetorical).
We compared to other people at later times.
quote:I understand what you are saying about verbal quotes, but in my experience the discount is always listed on the contract when you finally get it in writing.
We had a liability and waiver document, a security deposit document, and a cover paging listing the total amount in a blank.
Ultimately, there was a form available that listed rates. We ended up looking at it later (this was before the web). But, in general, the process was "How much for this room next Saturday?" "$200. Sign these."
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
pooka, I think that Mr. Wright had some valid points to make about the african American church. It is not as monolithic (or as all about him) as he made it sound, but it is, from what I have seen, a very different experience of worship than what most of us are accustomed to. As he pointed out, some very different theologies, histories, hermeneutics and personalities have shaped the African American mode of worship. The bombastic, aggressive preaching style that feels so harsh to our ears is not as jarring in context. The emphasis on the gospel as a liberation message, the understanding of Christ as an advocate for the oppressed all make more sense when we understand the history.
We all make Jesus out to look more like us. How many blond baby Jesus pictures have you seen?
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posted
I'm asian, so those don't really look like me (except when I was really little and thought I was white). I don't need Jesus to be female, either. I can accept Jesus as he was - male, mediterrenean, and younger than me, now.
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posted
Right. And that is a reasonable historic assumption. We haven't always viewed Jesus that historically - see tons of European art depicting Jesus pretty darn unhistorically. And in that depiction, for African slaves, Jesus looked a lot like the people who were enslaving them. There was also mindset (on which we are gradually shedding) that the more you looked like Jesus, the higher up you were in the social strata. Also, IIRC, Wright wasn't talking about Jesus/God; he was referring to God as a whole. In most mainstream Christianity, we don't officially assign a gender to Creator/God anymore.
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posted
I was always kind of rooting for Obama even though I couldn't bring myself to agree with many of his positions. I guess I was getting caught up in the historicalness of it all, but I must admit that I am very pessimistic about what this endless Wright affair bodes for Obama in the general election. First of all, it's entirely fair game for the Republicans to exploit the issue. Secondly, as I came across on a blog, a bit of irony is at work here:
quote: If Sen. Obama is undone by all of this... well, ummm... he did choose this pastor. He chose a church with a racial-nationalist agenda.
And I bet that’s because, as a biracial man raised by whites, Obama felt the need to boost his “black” credentials to make himself more electable.
posted
Well Obama has issued a rebuke to the Rev. Wright. I wonder if Hillary's response will be, "But he did not denounce him!"
This election for the Democrats is really starting to stagnate, it just feels stale to me now. I really hope Obama manages to break out of this funk, and run into the nomination and just keep going.
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quote: In most mainstream Christianity, we don't officially assign a gender to Creator/God anymore.
I'm confused. I thought the trinity was the view that God and Jesus were more particularly one. Though you have a point that God the Father could certainly be black or asian.
It all seems pretty sad. If Wright must know he's hurting Obama, he's probably getting back at him for calling him a senile uncle and kicking him off the campaign.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Well Obama has issued a rebuke to the Rev. Wright. I wonder if Hillary's response will be, "But he did not denounce him!"
This election for the Democrats is really starting to stagnate, it just feels stale to me now. I really hope Obama manages to break out of this funk, and run into the nomination and just keep going.
I'll laugh if she calls him a flip flopper for not rejecting him before but doing it now that it's politically expedient.
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posted
I'm happy for Wright. He wasn't given the pulpit to make sure that Obama becomes President. He is there to do a job. If Obama has to distance himself, so be it, but I do admit to being amused by the fact that Obama's big tent, unifying One America campaign doesn't have room for Samantha Power and Jeremiah Wright. We aren't one country. There is an America who believes that Reagan punted on AIDS, and then there is the America who believes in no such thing. Both parts are America, and are essentially American, and Wright speaks for one part, and the white people who actually elect the President speak for the other.
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posted
No. I do believe the government was casual about it when the issue was a matter of blacks and gays. It's similar to our foreign genocide problem. As long as a electorally significant population isn't affected, it's not a problem.
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posted
And yet that's a categorically different claim than the one being made by Wright. "The government ignored the problem until a large bloc of voters got upset" is not what he is saying.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: I'm happy for Wright. He wasn't given the pulpit to make sure that Obama becomes President. He is there to do a job. If Obama has to distance himself, so be it, but I do admit to being amused by the fact that Obama's big tent, unifying One America campaign doesn't have room for Samantha Power and Jeremiah Wright. We aren't one country. There is an America who believes that Reagan punted on AIDS, and then there is the America who believes in no such thing. Both parts are America, and are essentially American, and Wright speaks for one part, and the white people who actually elect the President speak for the other.
Are you saying black people have no say in determining whose president?
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posted
No. I am saying that we live in a majority ruled democracy, and black people are around 13 percent of the population. White people make the laws. White people execute the laws. White people interpret the laws. And black people serve at the pleasure of white people. This is includes Barack Obama. He isn't a Presidential contender because black people like him. He is a presidential contender because he won Iowa. Now I think Barack Obama is going to lose 48 states to McCain, and H. Clinton would lose 40. Not because they aren't better candidates than McCain, but because with a name like Barack Hussein Obama, he'd have to be 1.5 times better than his contender, and while Obama may be 1.5 times better than most Republicans, he is only a little bit better than McCain. Even if you factor in McCain's temper and age, the guy is a war hero who treats immigrants like people instead of labor or a disease. Obama would have an even chance against Romney, only because Romney is an ass, but McCain? This is the country that voted for Bush in '04, I really can't see how at least fifty one percent of every state-- except Hawaii and Illinois-- could vote against McCain. (I love how firefox doesn't recognize Barack Obama-- it underlines it like I misspelled something-- but it recognizes McCain and Romney.)
Jeremiah Wright is an exception. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of white people. He only serves at the pleasure of his God, and his God doesn't seem to give white people the benefit of the doubt.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: And yet that's a categorically different claim than the one being made by Wright. "The government ignored the problem until a large bloc of voters got upset" is not what he is saying.
What he's saying -- at least in the speech I heard at the press gallery -- was that he believes the U.S. government is capable of having done it.
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quote:No. I am saying that we live in a majority ruled democracy, and black people are around 13 percent of the population. White people make the laws. White people execute the laws. White people interpret the laws. And black people serve at the pleasure of white people.
This argument is not reasonable. Everyone is part of some minority in America - Republicans are a minority, Catholics are a minority, overweight people are a minority, blonde-haired people are a minority, rich people are a minority, southerners are a minority, and so on and so forth. People from all these minorities come together and vote on who will govern us. It does not follow from this that Republicans serve at the pleasure of Democrats, or Catholics serve at the pleasure of non-Catholics, or the overweight serve at the pleasure of the underweight, or that blondes serve at the pleasure of brunettes, or that the rich serve at the pleasure of the poor, or that southerners serve at the pleasure of people from everywhere else. Instead, people serve at the collective pleasure of the people who support them - and almost without exception that typically extends across more than one single demographic category.
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posted
We rarely know when a recession (by the standard definition) occurred until after the fact. Early data is always incomplete, so until a few years have passed we're never sure when a recession occurred.
For instance, it could easily turn out that the last quarter was actually a decline. We won't know until later.
edit: and that's the number from the BEA, which has fudged numbers extensively to be more in line with the political views of this administration, to a degree significantly beyond what was seen in the last few administrations. That isn't saying they might not be right, but it is saying that such an early number from such a suspect source yields almost no information beyond "we could be seeing a little growth or a little decline".
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quote: In most mainstream Christianity, we don't officially assign a gender to Creator/God anymore.
I'm confused. I thought the trinity was the view that God and Jesus were more particularly one. Though you have a point that God the Father could certainly be black or asian.
It all seems pretty sad. If Wright must know he's hurting Obama, he's probably getting back at him for calling him a senile uncle and kicking him off the campaign.
Jesus (Son, Redeemer) is God Incarnate. Being incarnate, Jesus had physical characteristics, looks, race, gender and so forth. God (Father/Mother Creator) is not (according to most Christian traditions) incarnate therefore does not have those traits. Nor does God Holy Spirit.
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: If Wright must know he's hurting Obama, he's probably getting back at him for calling him a senile uncle and kicking him off the campaign.
Was Wright ever a part of Obama's campaign? (Honest question--I didn't think he was, but I could very easily be wrong)
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238 Many religions invoke God as "Father". The deity is often considered the "father of gods and of men". In Israel, God is called "Father" inasmuch as he is Creator of the world.59 Even more, God is Father because of the covenant and the gift of the law to Israel, "his first-born son".60 God is also called the Father of the king of Israel. Most especially he is "the Father of the poor", of the orphaned and the widowed, who are under his loving protection.61
239 By calling God "Father", the language of faith indicates two main things: that God is the first origin of everything and transcendent authority; and that he is at the same time goodness and loving care for all his children. God's parental tenderness can also be expressed by the image of motherhood,62 which emphasizes God's immanence, the intimacy between Creator and creature. The language of faith thus draws on the human experience of parents, who are in a way the first representatives of God for man. But this experience also tells us that human parents are fallible and can disfigure the face of fatherhood and motherhood. We ought therefore to recall that God transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God. He also transcends human fatherhood and motherhood, although he is their origin and standard:63 no one is father as God is Father.
240 Jesus revealed that God is Father in an unheard-of sense: he is Father not only in being Creator; he is eternally Father in relation to his only Son, who is eternally Son only in relation to his Father: "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."64
quote:In late 2007, Wright was appointed to Barack Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee, a group of over 170 national black religious leaders who supported Obama's bid for the Democratic nomination;[25] however, it was announced in March 2008 that Wright was no longer serving as a member of this group.[26]
Thanks Dag and kate, for your patience with my speculations, and for the link.
I think it would raise some eyebrows if anyone who wasn't black had a clergy task force such as Wright led for Obama. (spelling edit)
posted
I'm pretty sure a lot of politicians have religious advisory councils who they talk to to get views on particular issues. It's like a focus group, but as a standing committtee.
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quote:What he's saying -- at least in the speech I heard at the press gallery -- was that he believes the U.S. government is capable of having done it.
That's even more nonsensical. The U.S. government is capable of a lot of things, but that doesn't mean that we should rhetorically address those things as if they happened.Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
So. Gax tax holiday...cynical political manipulation or are Hillary Clinton and John McCain just that bad at understanding economics?
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after my link. I mean WHAT could the mayor have been thinking? 
