quote:How about the assertion that a mother nurtures and loves?
I don't think that's a given, either. That said, again, I think your mother is a female parent, and a parent is one of the individuals who raised you. They may have raised you badly or without love, but if they raised you, they're your parents. You are not someone's parent if you enter his or her life after he or she has already become a fully-formed person.
It's the "being a formative influence" thing that's most important, IMO.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
What if someone raised you intellectually from obscurity, or spiritually, or emotionally? What if you're a baby duck and you imprint on a dog?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I find it bizarre we're seeing open speculation and comments about Tatania in this thread that people probably would have not been willing to vocalize in her thread had she not deleted it.
Agreed.
I used to be called verious people's 'cyber-mom' and even used the term myself. When my boys were young, I think I had an over-developed sense of responsibility toward a lot of young people I was friendly with. I have since backed away from that role, because I realized that I really didn't want to 'mother' my friends. I have children, and I have friends. Some of my friends are younger than me by a wide margin.
I don't mean any of that as a commentary on Tatiana, who is an extremely caring, wonderful person-- who is, in fact, much nicer than I am. I can't say that I understand how she feels, because sometimes it's hard for me to be a mother to my own kids, much less sombody else's.
I WILL say that I would never be so presumtuous as to dismiss someone's emotions or committments simply because I've never really experienced what they describe.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't speak to family relationships in the animal kingdom. And I'm going to ignore any alternate meanings of the word "raised," because I don't think that saying Jesus "raised" Lazarus and is therefore his father does much if anything to unobfuscate the issue.
But I do think it is partly as an acknowledgement of the metaphorical association between a true parenting relationship and those intellectual, spiritual, and emotional connections that we tend to speak of "nurturing" as "mothering," or call priests "Father."
--------
quote:I WILL say that I would never be so presumtuous as to dismiss someone's emotions or committments simply because I've never really experienced what they describe.
I want to clarify (and re-iterate) that I am not dismissing Anne Kate's feelings towards Sasha, or his towards her, or the depth of her attachment to him. What I am saying is that she is not his mother, and that she puts herself in opposition to his actual family by unnecessarily claiming otherwise.
It is perfectly acceptable to be like someone's mother. It is perfectly acceptable to love someone and help someone, and to be loved and appreciated in return. But if we're speaking of presumption, I find it incredibly presumptuous to express irritation, as Anne Kate has, over a father's reluctance to admit a stranger into a legal relationship with his real son in a manner that actually requires him to legally renounce his own relationship with the son he's raised to maturity.
In a nutshell: she's not his mother. She doesn't need to be his mother to help him, or love him, or be a valuable participant in his life.
Anne Kate has spoken before of how she likes using Alvin allegories. To that end: this is like digging a new well, then cleaning the dirt off the stone. She can help him -- dig the well -- without making an issue of it. By demanding full "motherhood" in return, she's cleaning the stone.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I find it bizarre we're seeing open speculation and comments ...
Here's one piece of open speculation While normally, I'm against thread deletion, in this very specific case I think there might be a small benefit in the fact that the thread has been deleted. The thread did include discussion and a good argument about committing insurance fraud (or at least something akin to or debatable as such) albeit in a very good cause.
In this wacky new world of the Internet, maybe it is best not to leave such things around "just in case" (albeit a really small chance of a case).
CT: If you're still monitoring, purely self-interested question. On the second page of the old thread, you mentioned something about lead poisoning from Chinese pottery(?). How much do you know about this?
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:But if we're speaking of presumption, I find it incredibly presumptuous to express irritation, as Anne Kate has, over a father's reluctance to admit a stranger into a legal relationship with his real son in a manner that actually requires him to legally renounce his own relationship with the son he's raised to maturity.
I guess I'm just putting two and two together here, but if her reason for the legal designation has to do with his physical welfare, and access to medical care, that's a horse of a different color -- or possibly a bunch of cats taped together.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have trouble believing that his medical treatment is absolutely dependent upon her motherhood.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:It is perfectly acceptable to be like someone's mother. It is perfectly acceptable to love someone and help someone, and to be loved and appreciated in return. But if we're speaking of presumption, I find it incredibly presumptuous to express irritation, as Anne Kate has, over a father's reluctance to admit a stranger into a legal relationship with his real son in a manner that actually requires him to legally renounce his own relationship with the son he's raised to maturity.
Independent of the thread and people being discussed, I find Tom's comments to be exactly true.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: CT: If you're still monitoring, purely self-interested question. On the second page of the old thread, you mentioned something about lead poisoning from Chinese pottery(?). How much do you know about this?
Mucus, I am following the story, but I've been taking a general hiatus from providing medical information or assessment publicly for a while. (I suspect that googling "lead" or "lead glaze," "Chinese," and "pottery" and/or "ceramics" would point you in the right direction, though.)
I am additionally trying to avoid commenting in any substantive way on this specific discussion, given that an email was forwarded to me purported*** to be from this young man, and I responded to it, and that places me in the context of a physician-provider relationship under some definitions of the term. That comes with specific responsibilities regarding confidentiality, regardless of what my actual assessment of what is going on may be. The latter is irrelevant to that confidentiality requirement.
I can say that, with respect to publicly disclosed information, I think this is incorrect:
quote:If this adoption were necessary from a purely financial standpoint, there are other ways to obtain funding; Hatrack alone has donated thousands in just the last year to various charities, and I'm absolutely confident that we'd pony up for Sasha's surgery as well.
I am pretty sure that the question of a surgery has not been brought up. I am unclear in many ways on what has and has not been brought up in this case (whether publicly or privately), and how to fit that together with what I understand about medical practice. Doubtlessly my own poor memory plays a role in this, but thus for many reasons, I should not and will not be offering opinions on what is going on here.
Regardless -- and this is speaking generally -- I think when the notion of raising large amounts of funds from interested and caring people is brought up, it would always be good to have a disinterested (or at least, not intently precommitted) third party involved for oversight as a matter of course. Especially when the information is coming from multiple different sources, filtered through a variety of different people with different backgrounds and levels of information, and over large non-local distances. But that is the same caveat I would raise with any such endeavor, and it is in no way particular to this case.
---
I had mentioned on another forum that I am taking a break from getting involved in medical discussions for a bit while I think about other things, some related and some not. I am happy to continue talking privately with anyone that I have talked with in the past -- you know how to reach me. Other than that, though, I'll be ignoring any comments directed at me publicly regarding medical matters, and I hope that everybody will understand that this is not meant to be dismissive. It's just a good time for me to be doing other things, and I trust that my friends and acquaintances will both understand and support such a personal decision.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
---
Edited to add clarification: ***I am reading and rereading this post (it makes me anxious to post it for all sorts of reasons, and emotions seem to be running high all around anyway). On reread it strikes me that the term "purported" may have connotations I do not wish to convey. What I am trying to say is this:
I was involved in this situation publicly some time back, and then privately in some limited manner -- and it is the latter that I believe to bind me from speaking freely. However, in making it clear that I will not be commenting further and why, I do not want to be taken to have affirmed things which I was not able to affirm. I really don't know what is going on -- all I know is what was presented to me, and I wanted to be clear about the limits of that knowledge, since this discussion seem to continue to be moving towards people making real world decisions about something I am not at all clear about myself.
And since my prior involvement could have been taken to mean I was clear about the situation then (even if now refraining from discussing it for other reasons) -- and especially since the thread is now deleted, and memories tend to smudge and fudge details -- it seemed prudent and useful to clarify my actual lack of involvement and clarity overall.
I hope that doesn't muddle things further, but it is the best I can do. I'll leave it at that.
posted
Oh lord, did I start this with my comment that I could understand why the biological father didn't want to sign away his parental rights? I debated about posting that, but decided to go ahead because Tatiana said she couldn't understand why the father didn't want to sign and I wanted to offer a perspective, as a parent, that I could perfectly understand him not wanting to do that.
Although, it sounds as if the discussion went afield even beyond that, I don't recall any discussion of insurance fraud. Must have missed all that.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: How ever you may choose to describe Tatiana and Sasha's relationship, what is evident to me is that Tatiana loves Sasha and is heavily emotionally invested in his well being. The word she and Sasha feels is most appropriate to describe her relationship to him is "mother".
I don't think anyone will argue the first sentence with you. But, to be fair, I haven't seen anything to indicate that Sasha thinks of ak as his 'mother'. That naming convention seems to flow the other way. Of course, maybe he does think of her as his 'mother in every sense except legally' (neglecting biologically, another sense in which Tatiana is most certainly not his mother). He doesn't post here so I really don't know.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, Belle, I don't think you started this. A lot of other people expressed differing opinions or concern, too.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
There seems to be an idea floating around that the word "Mother" appears on some sort of friendship continuum. Like feelings of closeness can be best described as follows:
This idea doesn't make any sense to me. Being a parent is a primarily biological term, and doesn't imply any location on the friendship spectrum.
Some parents are good and loving, some are controlling and abusive, some are neglectful, and some are absent altogether. That's because the words "Mother" and "Father" weren't invented to describe how much you love someone. There are other words for that. They were invented to describe, primarily, a person who has directly donated half of a person's genetic material.
Of course, in human society we have found certain uses for the words "Mother" and "Father" outside the literal donation of a gamete. But even in those cases, parental titles are used very conservatively, and with an asterisk. For example, no one is going to mistake Angelina Jolie for her childrens' "real mother." But since she found these children at a very young age in a situation where they didn't have anyone to care for them, and she made a long-term legal commitment to act in a parental capacity full-time and in person until they are entirely grown and independent, no one is going to deny her the right to use the word "Mother." However, even in such an extremely legitimate case, when someone raises a child that is not their direct genetic offspring, the word "Mother" is still going to be used with an unspoken caveat.
Outside that sort of scenario, referring to someone as "Mother" or "Son" because you feel very close to them after chatting with them on the Internet makes as much sense as calling someone "Roommate" or "Co-Worker" after becoming roughly familiar with them on the Internet.
I haven't seen anyone on any of these threads accuse Tatiana of any kind of sexual deviancy, mental illness, or any other serious personal accusations I'd expect when someone serially closes threads whose content they're offended by. All people have done is occasionally suggest that there are other perfectly good words she can use to describe her relationship with Sasha. Words that aren't so emotionally loaded, words that are far more accurate, and words that would make dealing with Sasha's real parents, practically, much easier and less contentious.
The fact that she uses the word "Mother" itself doesn't worry me. I can understand someone using such an affectation in a funny, cute way. It can be a term of endearment without being taken totally seriously. But the fact that she goes to such extreme lengths to censor anyone who questions the literality and legitimacy of that relationship in any context is what really makes me wonder what's going on here.
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Personally, I like the word aunt in situations like this, familial but no taking a name which ideall should belong to only one person. Considering the relationship began when the man was nearly a man (in his teens) and he has a mother, a different word might be less contentious.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
CT: Definitely no problem. I wouldn't want to make your recreational posting start becoming like work or worse, intruding into any issues of confidentiality. I'll do my own research for sure Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholar: Personally, I like the word aunt in situations like this, familial but no taking a name which ideall should belong to only one person. Considering the relationship began when the man was nearly a man (in his teens) and he has a mother, a different word might be less contentious.
The Chinese do this. For children a complete stranger is almost always refered to as Uncle and Aunt. As a missionary I met thousands of nieces and nephews I had no idea even existed. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Based upon generations, my husband and I used aunt and uncle for pretty much everyone in China (I learned a few words in Chinese and have since forgotten them all). The "aunt" that was our age thought it was so funny every time we said it (that could also be because we were saying it wrong).
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote: Personally, I like the word aunt in situations like this, familial but no taking a name which ideall should belong to only one person.
Why is it ideal that the name mother should belong to only one person?
For several years after my marriage, I called my mother-in-law by her first name but as I became closer to her. I began calling her Mom. It just seemed natural. Although my relationship with her is not identical to the relationship I have with my mother, it was a true mother/daughter relationship. Ackowledging that did not in any way degrade or change the relationship I have with my original mother with whom I am still very close.
My husband and I are paying for the education of several children in Africa. They call us their mother and father. This isn't something we asked for but evidently it is the tradition in their part of the world. They have adopted us.
I have friends who maintain a relationship with both their biological parents and the parents who adopted them as infants and are able to think of them both as "mothers" or "fathers". Another friend has told me he has no interest in finding his biological mother (even though his mother has occasionally encouraged him to look for his biological mother) because it would hurt his relationship with his true mother. I don't understand why this needs to the case. Parents are able to have more than one child and still love the first child just the same. People are able to love new friends without hurting their relationship with old friends. Why is it necessarily ideal that people have only one mother?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: CT: Definitely no problem. I wouldn't want to make your recreational posting start becoming like work or worse, intruding into any issues of confidentiality. I'll do my own research for sure
Love you!
(Thanks for understanding.)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholar: Personally, I like the word aunt in situations like this, familial but no taking a name which ideall should belong to only one person. Considering the relationship began when the man was nearly a man (in his teens) and he has a mother, a different word might be less contentious.
The Chinese do this. For children a complete stranger is almost always refered to as Uncle and Aunt. As a missionary I met thousands of nieces and nephews I had no idea even existed.
Same thing in India - if they're a generation older than you, they're Auntie or Uncle. In fact, if you ever offer directions to an older Indian tourists, or something along those lines, call them Uncle/Auntie, and they'll probably be incredibly pleased. People close to your age (same generation), but slightly older, are either "older brother" or "older sister," although these are said in whichever language is their native tongue (dada & didi in Bengali, for instance).
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rabbit, you seem mostly concerned with the idea that someone can't have multiple mothers or that only biological mothers can be real mothers. I don't think anybody has said this. What they have said, as far as I can tell, is that what Anne Kate has done does not make her a mother and that it does not give her a right to try to force his parents to let her take him from them.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: CT: Definitely no problem. I wouldn't want to make your recreational posting start becoming like work or worse, intruding into any issues of confidentiality. I'll do my own research for sure
Love you!
(Thanks for understanding.)
I'm sure there is also a professional ethics issue involved. Not that I think CT has done anything unethical but there is sort of a blurry line between offering friendly advice and giving medical advice when many of the facts are not available. I can see why CT would be concerned.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Rabbit, you seem mostly concerned with the idea that someone can't have multiple mothers or that only biological mothers can be real mothers. I don't think anybody has said this. What they have said, as far as I can tell, is that what Anne Kate has done does not make her a mother and that it does not give her a right to try to force his parents to let her take him from them.
What I have said is that you don't know everything Anne Kate has done and so it is presumptuous of you to assume that she doesn't qualify as a "mother" to Sasha.
If you have more knowledge about Tatiana's relationship to Sasha than has been posted here, then I am in error. Otherwise, I will repeat that you are being presumptuous.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
If being presumptuous is the worst thing I'm being accused of, then I think I'm fine with that.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I'm sure there is also a professional ethics issue involved. Not that I think CT has done anything unethical but there is sort of a blurry line between offering friendly advice and giving medical advice when many of the facts are not available. I can see why CT would be concerned.
I have always been careful about this, and I have always limited my advice to be bound by this. Of course.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: What I have said is that you don't know everything Anne Kate has done and so it is presumptuous of you to assume that she doesn't qualify as a "mother" to Sasha.
We don't need to know everything that Anne Kat has done for Sasha. All we need to know is two things that she hasn't done for Sasha. She hasn't:
Given birth to him, or
Raised him from a young age as a substitute for parents who were unavailable.
Based upon what I read in the recently deleted thread, it didn't even sound like she'd met him face to face until just recently, as a fully grown adult.
She may be a lot of things to him, but regardless of anything else she's done, she's no more his mother than she is Dagonee's business associate or Claudia Therese's bunkmate.
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess what bothers me is that so many people are dismissing off hand the idea that Tatiana might have a genuine motherly relationship with Sasha. I find that sort of dismissal to be not just presumptuous but condescending and rude.
You are in essence telling Anne Kate that you know more about what the word "mother" means than she does. You are saying that without even knowing the details of her relationship to Sasha, you know better than she that "mother" is the wrong word to describe it. I will note that everyone here who has criticized Anne Kate for claiming to be Sasha's mother, has biological children. It is as though you are saying that no one who lacks biological children could possibly understand what it means to be a mother.
Can't you see why that is condescending and rude? I clearly don't know all the things you know about being a parent, but that doesn't mean I don't know somethings about being a parent that you don't. Until you know all of things I know, its very rude of you to suppose that things you know about parenting are necessarily more important and more correct than things I know.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: What I have said is that you don't know everything Anne Kate has done and so it is presumptuous of you to assume that she doesn't qualify as a "mother" to Sasha.
We don't need to know everything that Anne Kat has done for Sasha. All we need to know is two things that she hasn't done for Sasha. She hasn't:
Given birth to him, or
Raised him from a young age as a substitute for parents who were unavailable.
Based upon what I read in the recently deleted thread, it didn't even sound like she'd met him face to face until just recently, as a fully grown adult.
She may be a lot of things to him, but regardless of anything else she's done, she's no more his mother than she is Dagonee's business associate or Claudia Therese's bunkmate.
So based on your definition, I did not have a true mother/daughter relationship with my Mother-in-Law?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I will note that everyone here who has criticized Anne Kate for claiming to be Sasha's mother, has biological children.
I'm pretty sure this isn't true.
[Or, what dkw said. ]
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: You are in essence telling Anne Kate that you know more about what the word "mother" means than she does. You are saying that without even knowing the details of her relationship to Sasha, you know better than she that "mother" is the wrong word to describe it. I will note that everyone here who has criticized Anne Kate for claiming to be Sasha's mother, has biological children. It is as though you are saying that no one who lacks biological children could possibly understand what it means to be a mother.
I started this thread and I have no biological children.
In any case, I don't think we should start granting titles and changing definitions in an attempt at political correctness. I'm sorry that Tatiana can't have children. I'm also sorry that quadriplegics can't compete in weight-lifting tournaments, but calling a guy in a wheelchair Mr. Universe doesn't change that fact.
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I will note that everyone here who has criticized Anne Kate for claiming to be Sasha's mother, has biological children. It is as though you are saying that no one who lacks biological children could possibly understand what it means to be a mother.
Icarus' children were adopted.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Not everyone who criticized the word choice has biological children.
I'm sorry. All the posts I'd read were by those who I know had biological children. I stand corrected.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think JT has a child, either, just like Baron Samedi. (Unless JT has been holding out on us. *grin)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: You are in essence telling Anne Kate that you know more about what the word "mother" means than she does. You are saying that without even knowing the details of her relationship to Sasha, you know better than she that "mother" is the wrong word to describe it. I will note that everyone here who has criticized Anne Kate for claiming to be Sasha's mother, has biological children. It is as though you are saying that no one who lacks biological children could possibly understand what it means to be a mother.
We know everything we need to know about their relationship: (1) She didn't birth the kid, and (2) She didn't raise him.
If she'd done either of those two things I don't think I'd be bothered by her calling herself his mother. But the general consensus in this thread seems to be that calling Tatiana his mother is a gross misapplication of the term 'mother', as it's commonly understood. We don't need to know any more than those two things above to know that.
You seem to think that this is somehow insulting to her -- it's not. Calling the relationship something else doesn't marginalize Tatiana's feelings, and it doesn't minimize all her help and hard work.
It's not elitism by parents, trying to keep everyone else out of their club, either.
And I don't have any children. [edit: CT, I'm holding out on all sorts of stuff, but not that. ]
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: So based on your definition, I did not have a true mother/daughter relationship with my Mother-in-Law?
You could argue that your use of the word "Mother" is a short-form of "Mother-in-Law," which is a legitimate and legal relationship that she shares with you. So I think you could make a good case for that one.
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, to paraphrase something Tom often says about gay marriage, how does Tatiana's definition of motherhood diminish my own motherhood?
I mean, I don't agree with gay marriage, but I've never answered Tom's question to anyone else's satisfaction.
quote: calling Tatiana his mother is a gross misapplication of the term 'mother'
This seems a bit extreme. Also, my mother thinks it's neat that my husband calls her mom. She thinks it bodes well for the stability of our marriage that he feel kinship for her.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:In any case, I don't think we should start granting titles and changing definitions in an attempt at political correctness.
I didn't call my mother-in-law "mom" in an attempt at political correctness. I called her that because I felt natural. It was appropriate to the nature of our relationship. She was in a very real sense my Mother even though she didn't either give birth to me or raise my as a child. Unlike you, I think that there are ways that people can develop true parent/child relationships beside giving birth or raising them as children because I have experienced one of those ways.
I do not know whether or not Tatiana's relationship with Sasha qualifies as a true parent /child relationship. All I know is that she claims it is. I think it is rude and presumptuous for people to dismiss that possibility out of hand .
quote:I'm sorry that Tatiana can't have children.
I don't know that Tatiana can't have children. All I know is that she doesn't have any biological or legally adopted children.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I'm sure there is also a professional ethics issue involved ...
Just for the record (because I think CT already knows this, or at least I hope) I was not really expressing anything more than curiosity with an element of self-interest due to being Chinese and using plates,bowls, etc. I was simply curious if CT had recently come across perhaps a review article in Pubmed on the topic or similar publication(source) that prompted the specific comment and wasn't really seeking anything personal or any specific advice.
In any case, whatever the reason (and there seem to be a few to choose from), I'll do my own digging
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: The Chinese do this. For children a complete stranger is almost always referred to as Uncle and Aunt. As a missionary I met thousands of nieces and nephews I had no idea even existed.
I would quickly add a point of interest. Relative names in Chinese are a bit complicated even in normal usage with as pooka hinted, multiple alternatives. At least in Cantonese, the regularly used terms for my real uncles were essentially numbered from eldest to youngest and this made it pretty obvious which were "real" uncles and which were well, "honorific" uncles.
Edit to add:
BB: This is very off-topic. I may take this into a different thread. But a thought occurs, given your travels, have you visited any of Harbin, Dalian, Suzhou, or Guilin?
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are children out there who WANT to be adopted, rather than children who already have a family who don't want to farm them out to someone else.
Just putting that out there. Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Well, to paraphrase something Tom often says about gay marriage, how does Tatiana's definition of motherhood diminish my own motherhood?
I don't think it does anything to your motherhood. But Sasha's mother might see it from a different perspective.
This is something that some people tried to explain to Tatiana (in this thread and others) to help her understand why she has such a hard time dealing with her "children's other parents," and that always leads directly to thread deletion. Hence the discussion.
Does that help?
Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Just for the record (because I think CT already knows this, or at least I hope) I was not really expressing anything more than curiosity with an element of self-interest due to being Chinese and using plates,bowls, etc. I was simply curious if CT had recently come across perhaps a review article in Pubmed on the topic or similar publication(source) that prompted the specific comment and wasn't really seeking anything personal or any specific advice.
Oh, yes, I understood completely. It certainly made sense to me that you asked, in case I had a good up-to-date review article. I've often done the same, myself.
And I also understand your courtesy and good manners in the response.
---
Because it might have been missed, I've move this from the edit at the bottom of my post above. This is just a restatement of that. For clarity.
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I'm sure there is also a professional ethics issue involved. Not that I think CT has done anything unethical but there is sort of a blurry line between offering friendly advice and giving medical advice when many of the facts are not available. I can see why CT would be concerned.
I have always been careful about this, and I have always limited my advice to be bound by this. Of course.
---
Edited to add:
Just to be clear, I have no qualms about anything I've done in that respect online, ever. Not only do I actually know everything I have done, but I have had advanced academic training in ethics, far and above what is typical for physicians, which is (I believe) far and above what is typical for other professions, except for law.
And I rest so easy at night, nonetheless. *smile
My concern isn't that I've stepped over any professional lines in any way whatsoever. My concern is that I am not sure personally what I hope to get out of that sort of interaction, and I think it is worth thinking about. I think that thinking about such personal expectations for engagement would be good for a lot of people to do, actually.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Well, to paraphrase something Tom often says about gay marriage, how does Tatiana's definition of motherhood diminish my own motherhood?
I mean, I don't agree with gay marriage, but I've never answered Tom's question to anyone else's satisfaction.
I would rephrase your question to say, "How does Tatiana's definition of motherhood diminish Sasha's real mother's motherhood?"
--------------
It may be rude to question her claim, Rabbit, but I think it's negligent not to. This is a case where being rude is an easy choice.
Just like it may be rude to bring up to a close friend that I think he has a drinking problem. He may not like it, but if I really care about him I have to do the right thing anyway.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
