posted
Re: Cement mixers I find it odd that there is often heaving earthmoving equipment waiting in the wings at the cemetery. For my Chinese grandmother's funeral, my grandfather just stood by and watched as they filled in the grave. I may be reconstructing that they even had a motorized dirt tamper go over the grave. In any case, it was highly weird. But I'll go back to their grave any chance I get because it's a beautiful place overlooking the Golden Gate bridge.
Come to think of it, I may go down to Arlington this Sunday, because I don't know when my next chance will be.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have heard people who believe in the literal resurrection of our bodies express disapproval for cremation because of that. It's never really made sense to me for many reasons, but I've certainly heard it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
There is a biblical tradition of some kind concerning how the dead are treated. But I'm pretty sure St. Paul would say it doesn't matter.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The biggest religious objections to cremation in this country have certainly been over the issue of bodily resurrection. Those with that objection tend to also be against organ donation and have issues with amputation of limbs. But that is changing as more and more people, even among those who believe in a literal bodily resurrection, are taking the veiw that "God can sort it out." It's still a very present veiw among older conservative Christians, however. As a pastor, I've been asked about it by family members who were concerned about their loved one's decision to be cremated.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I grew up in NE Kansas. Burial was vastly more common than cremation, but cremation wasn't seen as being disrespectful at all.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
My friend's concern absolutely stemmed from concerns about the resurrection. She also felt like burying was letting nature (God) do its thing while cremating was circumventing that. She wasn't impressed by my "God created fire" argument.
I'm afraid I scandalized her even more when I speculated how, exactly, it was going to work, because most bodies have long since gone to dust and some of the carbon atoms in my body have surely been part of other people's bodies before. I don't think she liked that idea at all.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Those with that objection tend to also be against organ donation and have issues with amputation of limbs.
Really? That doesn't match my experience in my culture. I don't think I've ever met somebody in Mormon culture who had issues with organ donation or amputation.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I should have been more specific -- those concerns stem from the same place, but the organ donation and limb amputation ones have died out faster than the cremation part, which is still a lingering issue for many people.
The organ donation one is still viable too, though. And we had a lay preacher here in town who told a church member that a Christian shouldn't get a heart transplant (this man needed one) because "Jesus lives in your heart, so if they take out your heart you won't be a Christian anymore." Which doesn't follow from the same doctrine, but this guy was an absolute literalist on a lot of things.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I definately subscribe to the "God can sort it out" theory. If God literally takes my body, I'm sure he can figure out how to put me back together. After all, he made the first human, so I think he could put me back together.
I'm kinda surprised that no one said anything about the turning my ashes into a diamond. My entire family and step-family think we are crazy, but they are definately in the pay too much for a casket and services group. They think I am crazy for the cremation thing, let alone the turning me into a diamond thing.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
We had a thread about the ashes-diamond business back in the spring of 2003 - not to discount the suggestion. It was an occassion for many a pun.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not sure what you expect us to say about the diamond thing. Except for have you checked the prices? Last I looked, it was pretty cost-prohibitive. As in, I'd rather my loved ones have the cash and buy a couple dozen natural diamonds if they want them.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, here's the price list. .2 - .29 caret diamond for $3500, .9 to .99 for $20,000. A 1 caret natural diamond ring is around $6 grand, and the $20G is for the loose diamond.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
They still have to pay for the cremation in the first place. Between that and making 5 diamonds, it's not going to be cheaper than a funeral, and probably more expensive. Not what I'd use life insurance money for, unless I was sure my loved ones were left financially stable.
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: They still have to pay for the cremation in the first place. Between that and making 5 diamonds, it's not going to be cheaper than a funeral, and probably more expensive. Not what I'd use life insurance money for, unless I was sure my loved ones were left financially stable.
But, not my call.
When I first found the website, it was about $5000/ diamond. I see it would be cost prohibitive to do five diamonds. Maybe just one for my wife.
Either way, it is ultimately her call. If she doesn't feel comfortable doing it, she can cremate me and toss me in the garbage.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Way more expensive than an average funeral.
I mean, I'm sure you could get a funeral up into the $20,000 range if you tried, but you can also do it for much less than that. (The average American funeral cost in 2006 was just over $6,000, according to the National Funeral Directors Assoc.)
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pooka: We had a thread about the ashes-diamond business back in the spring of 2003 - not to discount the suggestion. It was an occassion for many a pun.
I tried searching for this thread, but it must have been deleted. Either that or my searching skills are weak.
At least I have bow-staff skills. Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dkw: The average American funeral cost in 2006 was just over $6,000, according to the National Funeral Directors Assoc.)
We have had a rash or funerals in our family lately. The extremely cheap ones were $5000 and the more expensive one was $12,000. If my family is going to get as much as I am covered for, they should be able to live without a few grand. I just don't like the idea of decomposing in the ground. I don't want to take up the space and I don't want people to feel they have to come look at a rock with my name on it.
I don't visit family members who have been buried. I just don't really see the point. I don't want to say people are wrong for doing that though. I just don't get it. It may be different if it were one of my children, I will admit that. Also, I don't know why I have such a strong feeling about this. Maybe it was because I saw the funeral home take advantage of my wife's family when her aunt died. That was the $12,000 funeral.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are a few "Memorial Parks" in the US that are taking advantage of laws about burial sites to preserve wilderness areas. You have to be buried unembalmed and in a plain wood box, or cremated and the ashes buried, so that you are easily decomposable. But the fees from the burials are used to buy and preserve the land, and the fact that it's a burial site gives it extra protection from future development.
posted
dkw that is so cool! That one in conyers Georgia is not too far away from me.
quote:We are very pleased to be able to set apart a part of our land for this kind of initiative. We are happy to offer a quiet and beautiful resting place to people of all faiths and as well to those who have struggled to find any faith. For our part, we promise to let this land be reverently protected and beautiful for those who will share it with us.
Father Francis Michael Abbott of the Monastery of the Holy Spirit
quote:Originally posted by LadyDove: It's odd, but most people I know of who express a strong preference ask for cremation. Mostly because of the weirdness of decomp, being viewed dead and the expense of burial.
The grievers, otoh, seem to prefer burial. IME, each time the departed wishes have not been honored, it was in favor of burial over cremation.
This is exactly contrary to my experience, but that may have to do with religious Jews with non-religious relatives, and v.v.
posted
I like the idea of a conservation burial. It seems like a wonderful place for mourners to visit. It sounds like it would save money and do good at the same time. Plus, the idea of my body being sealed up tightly seems a little sad. If it's going to decay, it seems much cleaner to let it all return to the environment instead of sitting in a box.
On the other hand, I've wondered about the possibility of using cremation ashes in a ceramic glaze. That would be a cool way to remember someone -- incorporate their ashes into a memento. I think I'd like it if my body were to be a part of artwork like that.
Rivka, does the ban on cremation apply to non-Jews as well? Would a Jewish person refuse to honor the wishes of a non-Jew wishing to be cremated if it were up to him/her to make that decision?
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Rivka, does the ban on cremation apply to non-Jews as well? Would a Jewish person refuse to honor the wishes of a non-Jew wishing to be cremated if it were up to him/her to make that decision?
Doubtful. None of the relevant laws are among the Noachide laws. But I don't really know -- I doubt it comes up very often. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: On the other hand, I've wondered about the possibility of using cremation ashes in a ceramic glaze. That would be a cool way to remember someone -- incorporate their ashes into a memento. I think I'd like it if my body were to be a part of artwork like that.
I had planned to do that with my dog's ashes, but then I stopped doing pottery soon after she died. All of the bone-ash glazes I've seen have been really pretty. I had decided to use it only for vases and such though -- the idea of using it for plates or cups kind of squicked me out.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dkw: There are a few "Memorial Parks" in the US that are taking advantage of laws about burial sites to preserve wilderness areas. You have to be buried unembalmed and in a plain wood box, or cremated and the ashes buried, so that you are easily decomposable. But the fees from the burials are used to buy and preserve the land, and the fact that it's a burial site gives it extra protection from future development.
posted
I knew a guy who died and his family was unable to be contacted, and the final bill was $16k. I'm not really sure who was in charge. I figured it was because it was in L.A.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:I'm not sure that logic had anything to do with it.
I've heard that a lot about cremationists.
Oh, and if getting a Heart transplant takes Jesus out of your life because Jesus lives in your heart, then would getting bypass surgery also be wrong, since you would be bypassing Jesus?
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Personally I feel that burials are a waste of precious earth that could be used for something useful.
My mom firmly wants to be cremated, I'm not exactly sure about the rest of my family but I think they feel the same way.
Currently, I would prefer to be cryonically frozen and "resurrected" if I'm found worth resurrecting, in a world of far-advanced health-care technology.
I don't know how farcical that hope is... Logically it seems sound, but I think part is wishful thinking. (I rather resent that which most people see as a sure end-point to my life, and hope it is not true)
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know of anyone here that considers cremation disrespectful. Of course, I'm not out interviewing people on the subject...
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:My friend's concern absolutely stemmed from concerns about the resurrection.
I used to think that the molecular structure of the body would be used in the resurrection when I was younger. I pictured the decaying process going backwords. The more I thought about it, the less it made sense. By the time of the resurrection you would have been absorbed into something else.
My views on death have changed, and it all started with a ST:NG episode. I was really impressed with the Klingon idea that once you are dead your body becomes a motionless shell to do with it what you will. Also, my religious objections were challenged when I continued to study the scriptures, particular about the Kindoms of Glory. My own belief is that we will be resurrected, but not with the same molecular structure of mortality.
From then on I decided that my body was going to be turned to dust and therefore why not save some time and space by cremation. Besides, I often find urns much more beautiful than caskets. However, something said in this thread has me worried. Can someone tell me if cremation is more expensive than burial?
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not intrinsically. Some funeral homes will try to sell you a fancy casket and embalming and other stuff you don't need. At any particular level, though, cremation is cheaper than burial. The best way to make sure your family doesn't get guilted into spending craploads of unnecessary money is to make your arrangements in advance.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Once I'm done with my body, it's not particularly important to me how it's disposed of. I'm a whole body donor, so after any useful organs are taken for transplantation, I assume the rest of my body will go to the cadaver room at a med school somewhere to be cut up by first year med students, who will make rude jokes about me to dispel the creepiness they feel at slicing up the dead. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have in-laws (Mormon) who are opposed to organ donation and cremation (though I've never heard concerns about medically necessary amputation.)
I am an organ donor for transplant only and don't particularly care if what's left after they take what they can use is cremated or buried, though if I'm cremated I would want my ashes interred, not scattered and definitely not kept in the house-- that would just creep me out.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
If I were to choose, I'd like to be buried in a simple pine box in a beautiful cemetery and a nice headstone that I share with my wife.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Cremation, definitely. When people I love died, I always find it easier to cope if I know the body's gone, not in the dark, underground,decomposing. I wouldn't want to leave anyone wondering (the way I, unfortunately, tend to) every month how much of me had rotted away yet. I have an over-active imagination, but then so do a lot of people I know.
Take me to the beach on a sunny day and throw me in the ocean. Or scattered over the edge of the Grand Canyon under the stars.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
While I was reading this thread I was also talking to my mom, and she's very up front with her "I want to be cremated stance." I've always known that though. Then I saw the link where you could have yourself turned into a diamond. So now thanks to Hatrack, my mom wants to be turned into a diamond when she dies. It's not that I don't think it's not a neat idea, I just don't know how comfortable I'd be with wearing her in a necklace or on a ring like that.Something about that just doesn't sit right with me.
It's also her birthday today, so that was kind of weird talking about her dying when it's her birthday.
I don't know what I'd want. I'm all for organ and tissue donation. My theory is that I'm not going to be using those body parts any more so why not give them to someone who could make good use of them? I guess after harvesting organs and tissue and stuff like that I definitely would not want a traditional burial. Therefore, I think I'll be cremated.
I live in central Ohio, and I've never heard of anyone who thought cremation was disrespectful to your body.
Also, like others have said, if God was able to create me He sure can figure out a way to put all my organs back together one day.
Posts: 106 | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
So your mother has gone to the dark... err... sparkley side.
My wife thinks she would be comfortable wearing me as a necklace, but even if she can't, I think a sparkley diamone would be easier to have around the house than an urn.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Teres and I both plan to be cremated as the cheapest legal method, with any money set aside for memorials is to go towards a catered wake for friends and family, with any other donations going to charity. We don't begrudge others the desire to inter the bodies of their loved ones and erect monuments, we just don't feel any sort of urge in that direction ourselves.
We used to get calls from funeral homes once or twice a month. Our usual answers ranged from "We're not interested, thank you," to "we already have a family plot, thanks" (we don't), to "no, thank you, we eat our dead."
Once Teres took the call when she was home alone and busy with dinner. The offer was for free certificates for plots. The manw as very insistent and she finally said sure and gave our address, assuming they would be mailed.
I got home shortly afterwards to find her very annoyed. Turns out their rep was coming to the house and had just called to make sure he had the right street. He pulled into the driveway a few minutes later. Nice enough man but obviously determined to make his pitch. He gave us our free certificates, which were for 15% off burial plots (free certificates for plots, not certificates for free plots, you see).
We settled down to listen to him, but felt absolutely no obligation to take it seriously. We are ordinarily painfully polite people, but he more or less bulled his way into our home and we were feeling put upon.
Once inside he was very pleasant and friendly, and certainly the person I would approach to buy a burial plot if I was ever interested, but he was remarkably resistant to our polite insistence that we didn't want one. The fun began when he asked Teresa, "If something, God forbid, ever happened to your husband, what would be most on your mind?"
She answered, in all seriousness, "My alibi."
He laughed and said, "No, seriously, have you taken steps to prepare for that situation?"
I assured him that she had, and that, sparing no expense, she had invested in the really good garbage disposal, the one that can handle bones.
Like a judo master he used that to segue smoothly into why burial was better than cremation as cremation may not always do the job and the skull may be left intact, which was a tactical error because he had inadvertently succeeded in finally getting Teresa interested. "Really?" she said, leaning forward. "Would they let me have it? Could I put it on the mantelpiece?" That led to a furious husband-wife argument, which he patiently sat through, as I refused to allow her to display my skull unless she first got my teeth capped.
He tried showing us his book filled with beautiful photographs of coffins and final silk-lined destinations and only managed to amaze us at his racket. The very cheapest thing he had, clearly included to shame us into upgrading, was essentially a wax-lined cardboard box that went for $800. We considered it an outrage, since you could find ones like that behind the butcher's dumpster for free.
We realized he was doggedly ignoring us after he described his own burial plot and his headstone ("He Walked This Way") and asked what we thought his kids would think, and I answered "You liked Aerosmith?" and he never noticed.
When further discussions of our afterlife plans and the legacies for our future generations kept including the words "mulch," "reincarnation," and "Hefty Cinch Sack," he finally gave up. We thanked him for a fun and instructive evening.
There was one benefit. We never again got a call from a funeral home.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I realized I haven't stated my own preferences.
Well, while I like the idea of going up in flames more than I like the idea of rotting, I do think graves are important. I have a brother who died, and he is buried next to my mother. If I were to die now, my family would almost certainly put me next to my mother and brother.
The problem is that my mom and dad only bought four slots. Two are taken, and two are left. The present idea is that those two are for my dad and my stepmother. If I take one of them, then we just ran out of room. Either they will instead put me over by the slots by grandparents have, near my aunt who died, or else move all of us to the new part of the cemetary. Neither of those sound real appealing. I guess I can't die.
Although putting unmarried Pilkington girls next to each other (my aunt died when she was 21) is a little bit amusing to me.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
