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Author Topic: Should there be additional qualifications for the right to vote?
Vyrus
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All races have their own genetic deficiencies. I don't think there's any race that is better adapted to the world at large-just certain climate.

A black person would have a greater protection against skin cancer and local diseases in Africa, then a white person would, just as a white person might be better suited to Northern climates of Europe, and immune to diseases native Africans didn't already have biologically.

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MattP
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I'm pretty sure that blacks actually get *more* skin cancer than whites. I think the darker pigment only really protects against sunburns.
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malanthrop
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When my ancestors left Africa for Europe, they weren't white. I wonder how long it will take for African Americans to turn white or white south africans to turn black. Ever notice from South America to Alaska, the natives gradually become more Asian in appearance. It is one big disfunctional family.
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Vyrus
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Evolution is an ongoing process...races are changing. The "minorities" of today, won't look anything like the "minorities" of tomorrow.

Apparently,in 1000 years, the average height will be 6-7 feet in the world. Not terribly surprising, also not related, though.

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neo-dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
I'm pretty sure that blacks actually get *more* skin cancer than whites. I think the darker pigment only really protects against sunburns.

Um, no...
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malanthrop
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Even when everyone looks the same, other social categories of us vs them will be created. I don't deny prejudice but I believe the majority strife has little to do with skin color. What we call racial strife is a clash of cultures and the cultures clashing are not universal within the racial group but often self attributed to the group. Not sure if that makes any sense. No one wants to be stereotyped but we misinterpret the justified distaste for segments in our society as a condemnation of the entire group. I should be able to say I think a person looks like a clown, tripping over his shoelaces, holding up the front of his drawers with his underwear hanging out. My children don't need to see another person's underwear. Yes, a lot of African Amiricans wear this style but I find it just as rediculous on a white guy. This statement might offend some black people and be interpreted as racist but from my perspective it's not. I knew a guy who had a F%%% You tattood to his neck. He loved to fight and that tattoo started a lot of fights for him. It always started the same, "What are you looking at,....you got a problem."
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Rakeesh
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quote:
My children don't need to see another person's underwear.
They'll live. Make sure you don't ever take `em to the beach, though!
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TomDavidson
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quote:
This statement might offend some black people and be interpreted as racist but from my perspective it's not.
I'm pretty sure that the whole problem of racism has quite a lot to do with an (in)ability to look at an issue from something other than your own perspective.
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Orincoro
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quote:
I'm sure it wont be in my lifetime but some day we will be blended into a homogonous race and we'll be able to get past the surface and discuss the issues.
This goes to show how much you know. We have never been, nor is there any strong evidence that we ever will be a homogeneous people.

For some context (experts in the area feel free to correct, I only studied this in a few courses as an undergrad): humans are genetically closer to one another, and as a species, than any other primate species known to exist. We are so close, genetically, that the differences present in our appearances could be achieved in less than 100 generations (3,000 years).

The idea of "racial groups," is more political and cultural than it is genetic. By analogy, Slavic languages in central and eastern Europe exist on a spectrum. They are not discrete languages, but instead are often commonly intelligible with their neighbors. The relationships between the languages reflect a fluid history, rather than one of segmentation and individual development. We find that ethnic groups have histories closely mirrored by languages, and that ethnic groups are not discrete or individually evolving.

By working under the (now outdated) assumption that the races represent substantive genetic differences, you extrapolate logically that the combination of races will produce a homogeneous group. While that may be technically possible, it would require putting all modern humans in the same place together- but that isn't how we work. There may be a more homogeneous culture in the future, but even that will not take the form often imagined. We exist as recognizable racial groups precisely because of the cultural connotations that race has. Race "is" culture- it is the outward sign of a genetic history. As long as people live apart from each other, pursuing different lives, we will always have racial characteristics. Those characteristics don't mean very much about an individual- only their genetic history.

So don't tell me it isn't important that you can look at a black person and know that their ancestors weren't born in Russia. That tells you something about the person. And if you come to find out they *were* born in Russia, that also tells you something important. These things don't have to define us, again, but they do exist, and they ought not be ignored. There's nothing wrong with race- only the fallacies and folk wisdom of racism. Those fallacies you are unknowingly perpetuating, about a subject you obviously don't understand.


And yes, believing that homosexuality is immoral is tantamount to homophobia. I'm glad you're nice to your neighbor, and I'm glad you keep your bigotry to yourself irl.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
believing that homosexuality is immoral is tantamount to homophobia
I don't agree with this, BTW. I think it cheapens the definition of "homophobia" quite a bit to use the word in that way.
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kmbboots
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I'm with Tom on this. People can be wrong about this without being phobic.
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Orincoro
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What would you call it then? A person who looks at someone, and believes that their lifestyle is immoral. Are they not afraid of that, so not "phobic?" I said it was "tantamount," which my trusty Oxford English tells me means "equivalent in seriousness to." Think that it is equivalent in seriousness. It's true that the two things don't jive exactly in connotation, but I'd like to hear a better expression of my thought- because I don't have one.
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Xavier
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I don't know Orincoro, I think with advances in transportation and internet technology, race will disappear eventually.

The world is getting smaller and smaller at a seemingly exponential rate. I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years you could go on a date with someone in a different continent (perhaps even spend the night with them), and be back in time for work the next day.

With the internet growing and growing, I'd be surprised if a common language didn't emerge (or if English becomes the default), so I don't think that will remain a barrier for long.

[ March 25, 2009, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
A person who looks at someone, and believes that their lifestyle is immoral. Are they not afraid of that, so not "phobic?"
I think it's an abuse of the connotative power of the word to apply it in that way. I mean, you could just as easily say that I'm "murderer-phobic," since I'm afraid of murderers; or "investment-banker-phobic," since I disapprove of the lifestyles of investment bankers.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Xavier:
I don't know Orincoro, I think with advances in transportation and internet technology, race will disappear eventually.

The world is getting smaller and smaller at a seemingly exponential rate. I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years you could go on a date with someone in a different continent (perhaps even spend the night with them), and be back in time for work the next day.

With the internet growing and growing, I'd be surprised if a common language emerges (or if English becomes the default), so I don't think that will remain a barrier for long.

I used to believe that until I lived in countries that don't have English as the first language (Spain and and Czech Republic). I've never been convinced that advances in travel are going to mean that there will be one common society. I think travel will get easier, but so will staying at home. We may come to value more and more our known and knowable spaces. We may, in the future, choose to travel less and less. It's a bit hard to predict.
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Xavier
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The internet hasn't even been around for one generation, never mind what's coming next, and then what's coming after that.

So long as no calamity puts us back to the stone-age, I think we're in for some drastic changes.

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Orincoro
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But as you can see by observing history, the trajectory of those changes is unpredictable. There's never been an indication that the whole world would actually be interested in adopting a single language, and no evidence to suggest that maintaining one would be feasible even with better systems of communication. I can see it, I'm just skeptical.
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Vyrus
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I think that there could likely be a major world language, or at least it could be reduced down to several major languages.

Actually, the vast majority of the world has less than ten different languages, out of thousands, as its major ones, so I think one language becoming predominant, and the legal and political precedent, is highly likely.

Even if it's only used in politics on the world stage or in most international publications, with local residents speaking their native language, it's influence would be "tantamount" (teehee) to that of a "world" language, although the likelihood that other languages would disappear entirely is preposterous.

New languages will even be created-local lingo, to the extent that it becomes a separate dialect entirely.

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Rakeesh
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Personally, I think that by the time we get to the point as a species that humanity has completely blended culturally, physically, and linguistically, we'll have started to spread out into all sorts of extraterrestrial places, where promptly new races, languages, and cultures will begin to form.
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Orincoro
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That's the conclusion I would leap to as well. As soon as things are solidified into one mass, they immediately wander again, for lack of anything better to do.

People are driven by conflict- and conflict will always be represented in its purest form. So if you have one world government, and no wars, you start out settling conflicts in the way that you have set out, and slowly you segment the populations back to representing their own interests. That's why war will probably never end.

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malanthrop
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Our perceptions are limited by our lifespans. A "very long time" in comparison to what? The planet ia at leat 4 billion years old. The oldest evidence of humans is about 25 thousand years and sixty years ago it was exremely rare to mix races in this country. A couple generations from the beginning of acceptance of mixed races in America. In two hundred years or ten generations we will definitely be a lot closer to homogonus.

I believe it is a good thing. At least mixed race people aren't viewed as oddities anymore. IMO they are very attractictive and level headed individuals in regards to racial relations. It is possible when "pure" this or "pure" that becomes increasingly rare, their supremasist attitude will only grow. Obama will no longer be the first black president, rather the first half black president. Accusations of progress only for accepting a tolerable level of color in the man. Racism may get more extreme as pure races dwindle.

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Vyrus
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Malanthrop, I agree on the "pure race" part of your post, but not the "levelheaded individuals" parts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they aren't level-headed individuals, not at all, I'm just saying it's hard to put an entire "group" of people into a role like that.

It's was a positive one, but nonetheless a jump. It'd be like saying all Asians are intelligent, by insinuating that they're more intelligent than other races, or that because a large majority of successful figures in sports are black, they're better at sports than all other races.

Said with good intent, but due to lack of details, it was said so seemingly at the expense of others, although I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
Our perceptions are limited by our lifespans. A "very long time" in comparison to what? The planet ia at leat 4 billion years old. The oldest evidence of humans is about 25 thousand years and sixty years ago it was exremely rare to mix races in this country. A couple generations from the beginning of acceptance of mixed races in America. In two hundred years or ten generations we will definitely be a lot closer to homogonus.

In the past, geographical barriers and slow travel/migration kept the races apart. Today, here in the United States, the only things keeping the races apart are cultural norms. I don't know if when or how the blending will occur, but I am inclined to agree that it will happen.

quote:

I believe it is a good thing. At least mixed race people aren't viewed as oddities anymore. IMO they are very attractictive and level headed individuals in regards to racial relations. It is possible when "pure" this or "pure" that becomes increasingly rare, their supremasist attitude will only grow. Obama will no longer be the first black president, rather the first half black president. Accusations of progress only for accepting a tolerable level of color in the man. Racism may get more extreme as pure races dwindle. [/QB]

I have to disagree that mixed race people are accepted the way you describe. I've known mixed race people and they still seem not to know where they belong in a world that still places a lot of importance on cultural heritage. It's interesting that you brought up Obama -- if you haven't read it, you might want to check out "Dreams From my Father" from the library and give it a chance. I read it recently and loved it. A lot of it has to do with Obama's experience with race and discovering his past, beginning with his white family and then moving on to his black family.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
A couple generations from the beginning of acceptance of mixed races in America. In two hundred years or ten generations we will definitely be a lot closer to homogonus.

Do you really think humanity will still be on this planet alone in two-hundred years?

quote:
Racism may get more extreme as pure races dwindle.
There aren't any pure races now.
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scholarette
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My husband is mixed race as is my brother in law. Both have a lot of questions about where they fit into the world. My husband's problems also include that his father did not teach him their native language, so my husband can't even talk to half of his extended family. He does pass for white, and he has actually had people tell him there is no way his father was "pure." My brother in law also talks about not fitting in. He does not pass as white, but culturally is white yuppy (that webpage stuff white people like is perfect for him). So, my anecdotal experience with mixed races lines up with Christine's.
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Rappin' Ronnie Reagan
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As an anthropologist I feel I have to point out that race is a social construct. There are no biological races in humans.

quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
The oldest evidence of humans is about 25 thousand years

Try 200,000 years ago.
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malanthrop
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I understand the perception. I did not intend to make a judgment call or stereotype all people of mix race backgrounds. I was commenting on the advantage of them having one foot on each side of the fence. I wouldn't disagree that the perception of some towards them remains bias. There are historical example of slave masters enslaving their own children because they were half black.

My hopeful projection for the future is that the mixed race individuals will become the majority and illustrate humanity over race. Understandably there are self identity issues since our current society places so much emphasis on lineage and the expectations associated with it. The expectations within the group and outside the group are the source of the issues. The outside expectations are the obvious stereotypes we commonly refer to but internal change is needed as well. A white coach asking a black kid if he is going to play basketball, external example. A black kid who sounds white and listens to country music or a white kid who has embraced Hip Hop Culture and Raps, both may receive hostile treatment for deviating from expectations within their group.

The external change is focused on but the internal change is often ignored. If internal stereotypical expectations are not going to be addressed then the only other solution is to breed it away. My point is, the internal and external expectations placed on Obams, Tiger Woods, etc are somewhat muted. The expected behavioral characteristics are more varied and accepted.

My in-laws could not have children and adopted a white, a Korean/White, a Hispanic and an unknown mix. They are all secure in their identity and look at their white parents as mom and dad with self identities apart from there physical lineage. The Korean has expressed to me issues with being accepted by other Koreans more so than any issues with majority expectations. We are happy to address half the racial issue but attempts to address the other half are usually met with scorn. Bill Cosby is one example, who was ridiculed for letting the "barber shop talk" get to the public. Obama has said the same things and was received better. Where his words more acceptible because he can speak from both sides?

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Rakeesh
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quote:
I did not intend to make a judgment call or stereotype all people of mix race backgrounds.
Geeze, you have to make statements like that a lot.

I wonder why that is?

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malanthrop
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Rakeesh, thanks for illustrating my point. That's the problem. Everyone needs to watch out so not to leave a slight hint of offense to an oversenstive person. "What do you mean, you people?" is a good example. I MEANT no offense, I apologize for your hypersensivity.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Everyone needs to watch out so not to leave a slight hint of offense to an oversenstive person.
That's one self-serving explanation.
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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
... I think travel will get easier, but so will staying at home. We may come to value more and more our known and knowable spaces. We may, in the future, choose to travel less and less. It's a bit hard to predict.

Indeed.

Somewhat counter-intuitive, but we can see that as globalization flattens out income disparities between nations, sure tourism increases, but immigration drops right down. We've already seen it with places like Japan, Hong Kong, China, as areas that are poor become rich the urge to immigrate to North America is drastically reduced.

The estimate of a couple hundred years is pretty optimistic. Quebec has practically been surrounded for a couple hundred years by English-speakers and it persists. Hong Kong was occupied for a bit less but with very strong economic incentives to pick up English, but the results aren't all that drastic language-wise. The first Emperor of China unified the written language more than 2000 years ago but even with that advantage, the first steps towards unifying the spoken language only took place in the 1950s and are still going on with much help from a strong interfering government. Ironically, democracy may even slow the process. It has in Hong Kong anyways.

This can take a very long time and as Rakeesh rightly points out, big game-changing events that splinter cultures can happen fairly quickly.

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malanthrop
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:
Everyone needs to watch out so not to leave a slight hint of offense to an oversenstive person.
That's one self-serving explanation.
Anyone can pick and choose a particular sentence from a statement and twist it to make a point. Here's what I said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Rakeesh, thanks for illustrating my point. That's the problem. Everyone needs to watch out so not to leave a slight hint of offense to an oversenstive person. "What do you mean, you people?" is a good example. I MEANT no offense, I apologize for your hypersensivity."


We can keep beating around the bush and never get to the issues. Political correctness not only protects the offended from being insulted, it is a barrier to overcoming the problems that exist in our society. If a couple has problems, ignoring them to avoid a fight is not the answer. Keeping the "we don't talk about that" issues stifled will never solve the problem. More often than not both parties have contributed to the ongoing problem regardless of who started it.

Yes, whites enslaved blacks, Spaniards killed indians, the Ojibwe drove the Sioux into the great plains, Germans killed Jews, British mistreated Irish, Hutus committed genocide against Tutsis and one spouse may cheat on the other. There are numerous examples of bad human behavior. At some point the original offender expects either forgiveness or the acknowledgement of irreconcileable differences and divorce. Divorce may work with marriage but not with society. I doubt we want to go back to segragation.

[ March 26, 2009, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: malanthrop ]

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Rakeesh
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quote:
Anyone can pick and choose a particular sentence from a statement and twist it to make a point. Here's what I said:
One thing you can (continue) doing is insist that when lots and lots of people are telling you you're wrong or at least that there's something wrong with what you're saying, they're all deluded and you're the one being rational.

You're a hack. You don't talk near pretty enough to talk at people around here the way you make a habit of doing.

Edit: There is one thing I'd find interesting to read.

quote:
At some point the original offender expects either forgiveness or the acknowledgement of irreconcileable differences and divorce. Divorce may work with marriage but not with society.
Setting aside the point that it's pretty funny for the offender to say, "Yeah, we screwed you over big-time, but now you need to either get over it or get out," let me ask you: what offenses have blacks committed against whites in this country?
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malanthrop
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The "funny thing" is I am not the offender. I've never owned a slave, forced a Jew into a gas chamber or hacked a Hutu to death with a mechete. On top of that, I have no inherited guilt since none of my ancestors committed any of those offenses either. To be completely accurate, the vast majority of the people you hold accountable for the offenses have nothing to do with past or current offenses. The majority is the most stereotyped group in the country. My olive brach is this, I'll apologize for the actions of people who have nothing to do with me. The slaves and slave masters are bones in the ground. Even if I were the great-great-great grandson of one, am I accountable for their dispicable actions? My analogy was flawed. The offenders and offended are long dead. There will always be bigots but the vast majority of the "majority" are not. Don't hold up examples of backwoods rednecks or bring up one hundred year old crimes and hold me accountable for them. Disparaging current whites as racist is no different than assuming all monorities are gang bangers. Two sides of one coin and an inherited dysfunctional relationship, yes.

NO ONE IS KEEPING YOU DOWN. Argue with me about Muslim Americans if you like. They have a higher income than whites and I'm sure are the most discrimated against segment of the US population right now. Asians have a higher success rate than whites and we were rounding them up in internmemt camps just over 50 years ago. Millions of Jews were slaughtered in the middle of the last century and have been percecuted for thousands of years. They are successful and have moved on. Yes, we're sorry for the sins of light skinned people who have nothing to do with us but it's time to put up or shut up, you're free, you have opportunity. "Graduate from high school, go to college you can be the president of the United States". That's what my teachers and parents told me. The key to success in this country. Finishing high school is the first step. White or not, you're a dropout I have no sympathy for you. You failed on your own accord.

[ March 26, 2009, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: malanthrop ]

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Orincoro
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quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they aren't level-headed individuals, not at all, I'm just saying it's hard to put an entire "group" of people into a role like that.
Funny how he's now willing to categorize based on race. He also seems to be able to "see" mixed race people now too. Funny that.
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Orincoro
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quote:
let me ask you: what offenses have blacks committed against whites in this country?
Sean Puffy Combs, Reggaeton (arguably that was in Jamaica), "Who Let The Dogs Out," and "Flavor of Love," just to name a few examples.
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malanthrop
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Who are you quoting?
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beleaguered
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quote:
Posted by Malanthrop:
Political correctness not only protects the offended from being insulted, it is a barrier to overcoming the problems that exist in our society.

I think this directly correlates to affirmative action, and the division with races. I had a conversation with a collegue recently on this topic. This Nation sees the need for race divisions, yet because of the different races that profit in some way or another from division, any efforts of eliminating the need for the division would be met with more conflicts.

I believe races benefit from divisions much the same as unions benefit from their individuality of vocation, and those within a particular race as with the individual employee within the union.

My sister-in-law is from Brazil, and though she has a very dark skin, she is seen as nothing but Brazilian. She tells us in Brazil there is no distiction made between those with different color skin, everyone is either Brazilian or not.

I hope to see the time we are Truly measured by the content of our character than by the color of our skin. I understand individuality is important, but there are so many ways one can be individual, and to take the most obvious path is insulting to one's intelligence or creativity. I really hate to see people take advantage because of the color of their skin, whether that's in the job market or to get into better schools. The content of their character should be enough- yet because of the division that exists it isn't, and it seems as a Nation we have a ways to go.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
The "funny thing" is I am not the offender. I've never owned a slave, forced a Jew into a gas chamber or hacked a Hutu to death with a mechete. On top of that, I have no inherited guilt since none of my ancestors committed any of those offenses either. To be completely accurate, the vast majority of the people you hold accountable for the offenses have nothing to do with past or current offenses.
It isn't solely a question of whether you or your ancestors committed the offenses. It is also a question of whether you benefitted from those offenses. Even though you are not guilty of the crimes, if you have benefitted from those crimes, isn't it rational to assume you owe those who are still suffering from the crime something?

If you look very hard at the history of country, you will find dozens of examples of the ways white people have benefitted from and continue to enjoy the benfits of slavery and laws that discriminated against black people.

For example, during the 1940 - 60s, blacks were generally prohibited from receiving FHA and VA loans, even thought they paid the same taxes as white. So in effect, anyone who got an FHA and VA loan during that era, benefitted from racial discrimination. Did your parents or grandparents get that kind of loan?

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Rakeesh
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The "funny thing" is that, once again, instead of actually answering a direct question instead you threw up a big block of high blown rhetoric instead.

So, you're still a hack. Still full of it.

Oh, and it's good to know the Jews got over it.

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Orincoro
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quote:
My sister-in-law is from Brazil, and though she has a very dark skin, she is seen as nothing but Brazilian. She tells us in Brazil there is no distiction made between those with different color skin, everyone is either Brazilian or not.
And Brazil isn't known at all for having serious body image issues... [Roll Eyes]

Tell me what the Brazilians and the Argentinians think of each other. And lets not get into the treatment of isolated cultures all over the Brazilian countryside.

The naivete of your second hand "in this place it's like this" references makes me feel a little bad for stomping all over you. You obviously just have no idea what you're talking about.

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fugu13
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No distinction made between those with different skin colors in Brazil? Definitely not. I was in Rio a few months back for a conference, and I witnessed several times derogatory remarks being made about groups of people based on the color of their skin.
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Orincoro
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But fuguuuuuu..... he heard about it from his sister in lawwwww.....


You're mean!

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Rakeesh
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quote:
No distinction made between those with different skin colors in Brazil? Definitely not. I was in Rio a few months back for a conference, and I witnessed several times derogatory remarks being made about groups of people based on the color of their skin.
I don't believe you, because I haven't heard in detail and repeatedly how multiracial your family is. You're doing it wrong. Race-name-drop, man!
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Artemisia Tridentata
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There is no distincition made between those with different skin colers in Mexico eather. But, I've lived there a couple of times, once for an extended period, and I have yet to see a Mexican woman employ a maid with a lighter skin tone that the employer.
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Lyrhawn
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I wouldn't be surprised if there was less race based anger or what have you than here. Brazil in particular among South American countries has been dealing with issues of race integration for a couple centuries longer than we have in America. But I might be a little surprised to find that everything is just hunky dory.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
There is no distincition made between those with different skin colers in Mexico eather. But, I've lived there a couple of times, once for an extended period, and I have yet to see a Mexican woman employ a maid with a lighter skin tone that the employer.
OK, here's what I don't understand: how does living somewhere a couple of times give anyone the experience to say authoritatively, "This never happens there."

I can't even say that about my own home town, much less a country of hundreds of millions.

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BlackBlade
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Rakeesh: Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but not noticing racism in one's daily affairs for months or years at a time is certainly significant when there are countries where it can be easily observed on a near constant basis.
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malanthrop
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
The "funny thing" is I am not the offender. I've never owned a slave, forced a Jew into a gas chamber or hacked a Hutu to death with a mechete. On top of that, I have no inherited guilt since none of my ancestors committed any of those offenses either. To be completely accurate, the vast majority of the people you hold accountable for the offenses have nothing to do with past or current offenses.
It isn't solely a question of whether you or your ancestors committed the offenses. It is also a question of whether you benefitted from those offenses. Even though you are not guilty of the crimes, if you have benefitted from those crimes, isn't it rational to assume you owe those who are still suffering from the crime something?

If you look very hard at the history of country, you will find dozens of examples of the ways white people have benefitted from and continue to enjoy the benfits of slavery and laws that discriminated against black people.

For example, during the 1940 - 60s, blacks were generally prohibited from receiving FHA and VA loans, even thought they paid the same taxes as white. So in effect, anyone who got an FHA and VA loan during that era, benefitted from racial discrimination. Did your parents or grandparents get that kind of loan?

I don't deny Americans have benefited some from slavery, and that includes African Americans. Without slavery there would be very few Africans living outside of Africa today. Wouldn't want to surmise how lousy music would be without their influence. Americans really benefited from Chinese railroad builders, etc. The price slaves paid for their ancestors to be free was incredibly high.

They aren't slaves anymore, they do qualify for FHA and VA loans today. I'm quite sure my wife would leave me if I blamed my deficiencies on her past mistakes. If I continually reminded her of past trespasses and used it as a lever and excuse for current actions. Just my hack answer.

The blame game and race card is already losing its impact. Does anyone take seriously the accusation that standardized tests are racially biased, high arrest rates are due to a racist legal system. The force of the race card is diminishing in our society. Eventually bringing up the past will be dismissed as a cop out. Current problems can be attributed to two things: high dropout rates, high illegitimacy rates. The odds of failure are even accross racial lines when you don't have a stable father figure.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Does anyone take seriously the accusation that standardized tests are racially biased...
Not only do I take it seriously, I know for an absolute fact that they are.
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