posted
Where did everyone go? Hatrack seems so slow these days. I am looking at the front page and seeing threads from the 12th. I remember when Hatrack was so busy that at the end of the day when I got home from work, I would have to look back a couple of pages to see the posts from that morning. *sets down old lady walking cane*
posted
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.
----
In all seriousness, it turns out it IS possible to poison a well so thoroughly people no longer try to draw from it.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think part of it is also the fact that a lot of us are busy, and there hasn't been a lot of fresh blood in here lately. People always come and go, but it's usually balanced by newbies, which we are more and more scarce.
I think I used to average like 300 posts a month. We're halfway through September and I only have 40. I'm a lot more busy than I used to be, and don't have the time to really delve into things the way I used to (I miss those days), and part of it is also that there's less to delve into with fewer and fewer posts and active threads. It's sort of a self-perpetuating problem.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by katharina: In all seriousness, it turns out it IS possible to poison a well so thoroughly people no longer try to draw from it.
posted
Without getting into a long debate about forum shifts and moderator functions, I think the forum will be fine, as for myself I've been pretty busy lately.
But honey does attract more flies than vinegar.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The downward spiral is self-perpetuating, maybe? It's discouraging to spend 30 or 45 minutes thinking up and writing a topic, only to have a very small and unenthusiastic smattering of replies.
Also, when you're afraid of making a well thought out post because someone might jump all over you and call you stupid for some trivial error or because (God forbid) you admitted ignorance in a certain subject, it discourages healthy posting too.
*shrugs* I'm new here, so I don't remember anything about how "things used to be," so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Strider: I promise to be highly active as soon as Lost comes back on the air!
Ha ha...same here. Not to mention the fact that I've been in the middle of planning a wedding and will be until January 23rd. It keeps one just a wee bit busy.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: But honey does attract more flies than vinegar.
Too true. And for whatever reason, it seems like a lot of the thread topics have been more serious or just about something with which I myself am not overly familiar (gaming being a prime example and one that shows up with great frequency).
For those of us who are still relative newbies, well, speaking for myself again, when it comes to posting a thread as opposed to simply making a comment, I'm somewhat timid.
Posts: 691 | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: Also, when you're afraid of making a well thought out post because someone might jump all over you and call you stupid for some trivial error or because (God forbid) you admitted ignorance in a certain subject, it discourages healthy posting too.
This happens on every forum to newbies. Less people want to read a newbie thread because it's a) more likely to repeat a topic oft or recently discussed, b) more likely to be poorly written, c) more likely to be backed by an unspoken agenda, d) the OP is more likely to be sensitive to criticism or totally unreceptive to thread drift. Why should everyone here trust your thread when they don't know you? I would try not to be frustrated by that- virtually all the threads I've ever started have gotten little or even no response. Now I rarely start threads- I don't take it personally.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Strider: I'm all out of salt. Any other suggestions?
A goiter.
quote:This happens on every forum to newbies. Less people want to read a newbie thread because it's a) more likely to repeat a topic oft or recently discussed, b) more likely to be poorly written, c) more likely to be backed by an unspoken agenda, d) the OP is more likely to be sensitive to criticism or totally unreceptive to thread drift. Why should everyone here trust your thread when they don't know you?
Depends on reading habits, then. I rarely even notice the thread starter when I click - I read a topic (on this forum and all others) if I think the title is interesting. I'm not sure where trust comes into the equation. (I read this topic, actually, because I thought it would be about Poke from Ender's Shadow )
quote:I would try not to be frustrated by that- virtually all the threads I've ever started have gotten little or even no response. Now I rarely start threads- I don't take it personally.
I don't think the result is so much frustration* as it is apathy. If I (or anyone, for that matter) create a one paragraph topic about a trivial matter, I can expect fairly trivial responses. If I spend a decent amount of time carefully crafting a topic and expect an insightful and challenging discussion, and the response is of the same quality as the one paragraph thread, what incentives are there to spend all that extra time?
Well, there are a few. Devotion to the site, or more importantly to a feeling of friendship and family with other posters can keep people posting. But for newer members (like myself) who have little vested interest, there's not much in place to make them want to keep posting.
I mean, my main draw to this place is the discussions about concepts and things I think are important or fascinating, and I read through the threads here daily, but it's not too often now that I desire to post. I think that's a valid explanation of Lyrhawn's post about the lack of new members.
*I want to make sure you understand my intentions. I'm not emotionally frustrated if that's what you mean. I may come off as rather passionate, that's a unfortunate byproduct of the way I write. It's actually somewhat difficult for me to find a "written" tone people find entirely dispassionate, but I try. So long as I'm not typing in all caps or using obscenities, it probably means I'm not worked up.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote: *shrugs* I'm new here, so I don't remember anything about how "things used to be," so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I'm not sure how it would feel to come in to this Hatrack as a newbie. It's nostalgia that's keeping me here now.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
An individual unit of pepper is a flake, unless it's fresh ground. Then it's a speck. (Says who? Me. )
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Whenever someones mentions the the old days of Hatrack (myself included), I always hear it in Londo Mollari's voice.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I think about the older days of hatrack, and granted I only know it up until mid 2005, I think about it in terms of posters I looked forward to reading, who no longer visit.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course, that raises the question of whether we really want to attract flies in the first place.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Whenever someones mentions the the old days of Hatrack (myself included), I always hear it in Londo Mollari's voice.
One person does not a welcome make. When I'm repeatedly misquoted or misconstrued in what seems to be an intentional manner, and nearly everything on a forum is so acrimonious that I don't even bother to get involved most of the time... I go somewhere else, that's all.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jeeze, over the past few days things have been slowing down to the point where I remember the forum being more active, and I've been here for barely a year.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
One person does not a welcome make. When I'm repeatedly misquoted or misconstrued in what seems to be an intentional manner, and nearly everything on a forum is so acrimonious that I don't even bother to get involved most of the time... I go somewhere else, that's all.
I get that, I really do. As for myself, and I'm not saying your course of action is wrong, I won't leave because I'd rather remain and try to keep the forum enjoyable. By leaving I feel like I'm giving it up to the wolves.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, good luck fighting the wolves, BB. Really, I mean that sincerely. I just don't have it in me to do so right now. I have other battles to fight. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Which is, of course, why you're continuing to post here about why you're not posting here. Besides blaming it on anonymous "wolves," of course.
I mean, seriously, I don't get the drama. Unless you're going to try to change something, why even bother insulting the people who're still here?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Trying to change it does nothing. Calling them out by name also does nothing. I don't see any posts in this thread as being insulting. Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Could there be any correlation with our esteemed host not putting out another Enderverse novel anytime soon? Granted, there was Ender in Exile, so maybe my theory is bunk, but if the only intake we have is word of mouth from other members and not from people reading OSC then yeah, it makes sense things would be slower.
As for me, I just don't have the time or the energy or, frankly, the desire. There was a time when Hatrack was my primary community. It was where I felt most at home and where most of my friendships were. Luckily, since then, I've grown up and found people who I really enjoy being around IRL, and so Hatrack has lost its function. I still come and check in, obviously, but this is no longer my community. No reason. There wasn't anyone who drove me away, or a general attitude that drove me away. I just ... moved on. *shrug*
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Which is, of course, why you're continuing to post here about why you're not posting here. Besides blaming it on anonymous "wolves," of course.
I mean, seriously, I don't get the drama. Unless you're going to try to change something, why even bother insulting the people who're still here?
This is actually a somewhat good example of what's wrong around here. Analyzing the situation is fine, disagreeing and saying so is also fine. But where in the post is the empathy, or the good will? Instead you make light of her determination to stop coming by saying in effect, "Why are you still here?"
Why couldn't you say all that you did, and still make room somewhere in the post to say, "You're presence is welcome here?" Unless of course you don't actually want KQ and her ilk to make appearances here.
In addition, I recognize that to try and make complete posts, or statements that are perfect is of course unreasonable. I don't expect people to always say things without omitting necessary elements, that's just not how anybody speaks.
But I have noticed on these boards, and indeed in 90% of the associations I have, that people are terrible at offering criticisms but very enthusiastic at doing it. When I first came here I was extremely impressed with how smart the people in this forum are, and I still am. But criticisms and censures simply must be followed up with praise or accolades, and most people forget that step. People so easily get stuck on the holes in the previous posters statements, and they want to point them out, nobody wants to actually change somebody else's mind and be happy with them. Instead they will settle for simply proving them wrong, or demonstrating that they can remain smug and content while the other poster loses control and blows up.
I'm sorry that all came out in a post the originally was designed as a response to you Tom, I'm not saying all of that applies to you. But are you honestly glad to see all the people gone that are? Perhaps because you've been a member far longer you've seen so many come and go you just accept it as par the course, but there are posters here whose invaluable knowledge and resources have helped me immensely, and now they are gone. There are personalities that made me happier knowing they were around during the day and now they are silent.
I can't hope to fill even a measure of the void these people have left, do you even notice the emptiness? Will you eventually get bored and leave? I don't much know what I will do, but I do know what I want to do. I want to look forward to talking to my friends, acquaintance, and new voices on this board and to learn, have fun, and help others. That is becoming harder as the months pass, no doubt about that in my mind.
I don't want to just whine about it, I'd like it to change. But besides trying my best not to be what I disagree with and occasionally talking about it in places like this thread, I just don't know what else I can do. Maybe this place will inevitably change into something else for better or worse. But I can't honestly say I love the decor more now than I did back in 2005. Maybe I just need to appreciate what's replaced it, but I just can't see what has and why I should admire it. Can you help me?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
For online activities, one rule I have is that I will never pick online over real life. So, when real life gets busy, I tend to lose interest in online. I know right now I am in a real life mode (I play some farming games online and people have been upset by my lack of interest).
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Yes. I don't suppose I'm universally beloved. I imagine that my minor presence here on Hatrack goes relatively unnoticed, in fact. But when it comes to well-poisoning, and wolf-being, I'm pretty confident of my innocence. I'm fair and I treat people pretty well. I'm not perfect, but I'm not hostile.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Why couldn't you say all that you did, and still make room somewhere in the post to say, "You're presence is welcome here?"
Because if she doesn't already know that, she certainly wouldn't believe me if I said that. Nor can I speak for the community; I cannot say with authority who is welcome here, because I don't get to make that kind of choice.
More importantly, I don't get to tell ketchupqueen whether she should feel welcome or not; she alone can make that determination. Certainly, I disagree with her; I think she's generally very well-liked by the people here. But for whatever reason, she doesn't think so -- and she's absolutely entitled to that opinion, however wrong I believe it to be.
-------
quote:But are you honestly glad to see all the people gone that are?
Heh. No. I have had shouting matches with the owner of this site and his wife over just this issue. I told him exactly what would happen if he continued doing what he was doing; I told him exactly what effect it would have on this place, and told him at great length how much I would regret it. I recommended specific steps to address the issue several years ago, when they would have made a difference.
I was absolutely, entirely, comprehensively correct. I was also vilified and slandered and mocked for making the effort.
So, yeah, I'm sad to see Hatrack reduced to what it is. But blaming the "wolves" is missing the point. From the very moment certain decisions were made, its current state became inevitable. And it's not the fault of some handful of hypothetically unconstructive posters, either.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
