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Author Topic: How valuable are non-parent's thoughts on children?
Hobbes
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I'm honestly curious here, not trying to disparage. Also, I honestly tried to work the topic in the most descriptive way without going too long. You may disbelieve either claim, but they are true.

Anyways, the question is: as a parent do you put much if any credence in theories, ideas or advice from those who have no children? I don't know how I feel on the subject, though of course the wrong answer may make my opinion moot as I am childless [Big Grin] . I do get frustrated when parents (particularly new parents) repeatedly inform me or others that until one has children of their own, one knows nothing about anything. Aside from the poor presentation skills these individuals clearly have (or don't have) access to, it might be a valid point.

I recall on my mission when I was training (when you are the first companion of a newly minted missionary, teaching them pretty much everything about everything) someone who had never trained before constantly tried to give me advice on what to do or how to do it and it irritated me to no end. I recognize that training on a mission is at best a pale imitation of some of the struggles (and blessings!) of parenthood but that only reinforces the point.

Opinions? Being a non-parent, I'd even consider accepting ideas from those other poor saps without offspring. [Wink]

Hobbes [Smile]

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Shan
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Ahhh! The eternal question. Is experience actually necessary . . . ? Well, let's see.

Before I became a mother, I had very strong opinions about what consituted decent parenting, and I was not shy about sharing them. This actually was rather counter-productive (in hindsight), but that was mostly due to the fact that I was also a less than shining example of tact, compassion or honest desire to be helpful. [Blushing]

Then I became pregnant. [Eek!]

I consulted every written work I could lay my hands on, took every class I could possibly take, and spent lots of time with parent educators, professionals, etc. I swore to do everything completely different from how my parents had done it. As a matter of fact, I was fairly sure that if I just took the exact opposite stance from my parents, I would be just about perfect. [Roll Eyes]

Then I gave birth. (There's no smiley that adequately expresses that time. *grin*)

I have learned that parents grow at least as much as their progeny. The lessons can be both painful and joyful. But, it's important to stay open to the experiences and changes and growth. [Cool]

I very rarely give parenting advice, [No No] unless asked for it -- and even then I hesitate. Most of the time, parents just need some reassurance and comfort and support.

[Group Hug] for parents

I guess it's important to know that all families are different. All parents are different. All children are different. There is no one right way to do anything under the sun when it comes to the inexact science of raising a human being. *Insert relieved smiley -- most parents are happy to know there are many ways to do this job -- relieves some of the pressure*

My son is soon to turn 16. [Angst] I expect the learning and growing will continue for both of us -- throughout all the years of our life. Kind of exciting, yes? [Big Grin]

Anyway. Probably too long of an answer. Sorry.

/de-lurk

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Strider
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If you are going to apologize for anything it should be for the excessive use of smilies. [Razz]
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Shan
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But, this is a Hobbes' thread, and HE likes smilies! [Razz] [Razz]
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AvidReader
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Fellow childless type here. I think it probably depends on the kind of advice and how well you know the person you're offering it to.

A random stranger in the supermarket doesn't want to hear your advice on what to feed their kid. Unless their kid has big red circles under their eyes - then they might want someone to mention that some kids get that from a red food dye allergy.

Corporal punishment is even trickier, mostly because different kids respond differently to it. I'd either have to be in such a position of trust that I'd watched and disciplined the child myself or witness pretty clear abuse to feel comfortable broaching the subject.

Most people like their kids and want to do the best they can for them. Those people probably don't need my advice. And the ones who don't enjoy their kids probably don't care about anyone's advice. I'd expect the exceptions to those ideas to happen very rarely, and, in my particular case, probably to involve food allergies I have.

I'd feel quite comfortable pointing out the signs of food allergies I have in someone else. [Smile]

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Scott R
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quote:
as a parent do you put much if any credence in theories, ideas or advice from those who have no children?
When they're talking about theories that apply to kids in general-- for example, methods of discipline that are appropriate-- then I think they have a right to have their opinions heard. Everyone has been a child at some point; everyone has an opinion about what childhood meant, and how it could have been made better.

When they're talking about specific individuals-- my parenting, or my children-- no. They don't have a clue. [Smile]

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Teshi
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I agree with Scott.

Lots of people spend a lot of time with children who aren't parents (e.g. myself) and it's a bit silly if the only people who we allow to have an opinion on the way children are is people who are individually bringing up a child or children.

I may have overstepped my bounds once or twice, but there are certain things that I've felt very strongly about.

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lem
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quote:
I do get frustrated when parents (particularly new parents) repeatedly inform me or others that until one has children of their own, one knows nothing about anything.
If someone who is childish is giving points on how to be a parent, then I don't put much stock in what they say. You don't know what it's like to be a parent until you are a parent anymore then you know what it is like to be a missionary until you are out in the field--it doesn't matter how many times you went on splits with stake missionaries!

If someone has had training in teaching methods (like a teacher) or how people learn (like a psychologist) then they probably have something I could learn that is much more valuable then my own experiences. Unless they are a professional, I turn to parents for parenting advice.

But I totally agree that parents who think they have unlocked some mystery of life since becoming a parent are annoying. I also don't see how being a parent gives you access to some secret stash of knowledge/experience on non-child-rearing related topics.

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Stephan
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As a new father I take advice from everyone, as long as they are not rude about what we have already decided to do.

Beforehand, as a teacher, I would occasionally have people ask me for advice. But I truly think there is a huge difference between classroom management and household management.

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theCrowsWife
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Even having children of your own may not help much when it comes to giving advice about other people's children. All people, children and adult, have different personalities, experiences, and environments. There is no one answer that works with all combinations of children and parents. The only general advice I would give to all parents would be to observe their own children closely and focus more on desired results than particular methods.

--Mel

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scifibum
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quote:
There is no one answer that works with all combinations of children and parents.
YES. [Smile]

I think it's slightly more common for an actual parent to have come to this realization - because they have found one of their former assumptions or ideals requires a little reassessment - than for non-parents.

But I certainly see plenty of parents assuming that what works for them should work for everyone, too.

I think you should go ahead and offer advice or input anytime you think it'll help, whether you're a parent or not, but keep in mind:
1) Obvious solutions are obvious.
2) Ideas are easier to receive than instructions.
3) You have no clue about Scott R's kids.

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dkw
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If I'm looking for suggestions and someone says, "Have you tried xyz" then I don't care whether or not they are a parent, any idea is worth considering.

If I'm not looking for suggestions and someone says "you have to xyz or your kids will turn out terrible/never learn __/be rude monsters" then I don't care whether or not they are a parent, I don't want their advice.

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Scott R
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You have to eat some of your children, or the remaining ones will never know how much more precious they are to you.

I'm sorry, dkw, but it's proven fact.

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katharina
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Although I don't have kids, I agree with Scott and dkw.

Although my general default is to ignore all unsolicited advice. I find that it more often serves the interest of the speaker than the reciever.

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theamazeeaz
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If it's from the person's own childhood, or something read that was passed on in a good context, (like dkw said), why not?

Though to be fair, I've witnessed silently three incidents as a teen/20-something in which I would have loved to tell the parents of the children that they did not know what they were doing. But I didn't. Should I have? Do I have to have kids to have any advice for these people?

1. El Paso airport. The flight was delayed, and one group of adults (both parents, and at least one other companion) could not control their problem child (possibly some diagnosed issue), which was screaming and running around the airport to the annoyance of basically everyone. The parents could not get the kid to sit and shut up so they could nurse their own migraines in relative peace.

But that's what they missed. Children, unlike adults, don't sit in chairs for a half an hour and do nothing very well. They need some sort of entertainment. This is for your sanity, not theirs. All the other parents either had some sort of toys with their kids, or were holding them. I remember when I waited with my parents for the doctor, my mom would play tic tac toe and teach me how to draw 3d boxes. Sure, you don't want to spoil your kid, but you can't expect a special needs kid to sit down, shut up and do nothing for an unspecified amount of time. One adult needed to switch off playing with that kid.

Movie theater, Spider-man 2. Little kid sits down next to me. Dad sits next to him, tells kid to be quiet during his movie. Kid immediately starts talking, dad yells at kid to be quiet. Thing is, the kid is telling dad, he can't see the screen. It's not stadium seating. The guy directly in front of the kid is a huge grown-up who is blocking his view. I remember how grown-ups sat in front of me when I was little and I could never see the screen. The dad is behind an empty space for a wheelchair, and has a perfect view if he only switched. Dad misses this entirely, kid is miserable.

Doctor's office. Pediatrics. Six-year old boy and three-year old girl make a break for the toys in the middle of the room. Boy begins to explore, mom drags to the little girl back to do her hair. The girl is somewhat fighting because there are toys in the room and she sees them. Mom puts tiara in girls' hair, girl pushes back like it's a headband. Mom tells her that it's not how they are worn, and sets it atop her head like it's a crown. After a bit of this, she's allowed to play with her brother, but her mom doesn't seem to like the concept. Meanwhile, any doubt I had that women's underrepresentation in the sciences is due to social conditioning, not biological ability has been erased.

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rivka
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Even though you had just watched some of that social conditioning at work?
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dkw
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Re-read that, rivka.
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Strider
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quote:
You have to eat some of your children, or the remaining ones will never know how much more precious they are to you.
Did Slash just come back and steal Scott's handle?

I would never give unsolicited parenting advice.

And while I have never raised any children, I have done a significant amount of reading on the subject of cognition and human behavior, and have learned much about learning and memory both from the psychological standpoint and the neuorscientific standpoint. I think it would be foolish for someone to completely ignore any insights I may have solely because I don't have any children of my own. But it doesn't seem like anyone in this thread is arguing to ignore the advice of childless individuals, so my point is somewhat moot!

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
Re-read that, rivka.

*does*

Ah! Ok, got it.

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Sterling
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Sometimes it appears as though everyone thinks they're an expert. Even well-meaning advice often seems like, having seen someone running forty feet in the middle of a marathon, the onlooker advises the runner to breathe more slowly and move their legs more quickly.

Like Shan, I probably would have given more weight to well-meaning non-parents' advice before becoming a parent myself, though my nature is such that I was never likely to force such advice on others. Sometimes such simple non-interference is difficult, though. At one point I visited the house of friends with a new toddler who also had a steep open staircase to the basement with no door, pieces of broken mirror at ankle level from a craft project, and an open mason jar of lighter fluid on a stool in their backyard. Argh!

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Scott R
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quote:
You have to eat some of your children, or the remaining ones will never know how much more precious they are to you.

Did Slash just come back and steal Scott's handle?

You're kidding me. Please-- Slash doesn't eat children. He eats adults...or at least reasonably mature young people.

[ January 05, 2010, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]

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Tresopax
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quote:
When they're talking about specific individuals-- my parenting, or my children-- no. They don't have a clue.
I'd have to think that parents who completely ignore specific advice about their children often are making a mistake, at least when that advice comes from people who also know their children - teachers, parents of their child's friends, etc. That's because parents tend to have a blind spot that grows as the child gets older and more independent, and the only way to fill that blind spot is by getting information from other people.
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Scott R
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quote:
I'd have to think that parents who completely ignore specific advice about their children often are making a mistake, at least when that advice comes from people who also know their children - teachers, parents of their child's friends, etc. That's because parents tend to have a blind spot that grows as the child gets older and more independent, and the only way to fill that blind spot is by getting information from other people.
Well, not the ONLY way. You can also establish a trusting relationship with your child early on so that when they hit their independence, they're willing to share their trials and difficulties with you rather than cut you out of the loop.

It's important to know your child; that can be facilitated by teachers and other adult authority figures who have responsibility for the child when you can't be there.

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rivka
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Scott, I cannot wait until you have a couple 14-17 year-olds.
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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:
You have to eat some of your children, or the remaining ones will never know how much more precious they are to you.

Did Slash just come back and steal Scott's handle?

You're kidding me. Please-- Slash doesn't eat children. He eats adults...or at least reasonably mature young people.
hmmm...good point.

quote:
Sometimes such simple non-interference is difficult, though. At one point I visited the house of friends with a new toddler who also had a steep open staircase to the basement with no door, pieces of broken mirror at ankle level from a craft project, and an open mason jar of lighter fluid on a stool in their backyard.
okay, I amend my above statement to "I would almost never give unsolicited parenting advice"
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Dogbreath
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I often feel like I could contribute something valuable, but I rarely do because as often as not, parents seem pretty defensive about what they're doing.

For example, I have a friend who is always yelling, sometimes even screaming at her daughter (who is a little younger than 2 years) when she wants her to do something. The daughter, in turn, has some emotional issues and is always crying in anger and hitting other kids. I remember once watching the mother coming up, grabbing her daughter and yelling "No! Don't hit other kids!" at the top of her lungs.

Now I firmly believe parents should always remain calm and in control in front of their kids. It's not necessarily bad for them to express some anger, but they need to do it in a controlled way. If you yell at a child or show anger, the child learns yelling and anger are acceptable reactions. If you correct a child gently, talking reasonably, being specific and precise with your physical touch and gestures, you not only teach them their anger isn't accomplishing anything (by getting a reaction from you), you also teach them far better by example how to express themselves calmly.

This is a big frustration of mine. Especially when I see parents with uncontrolled children in supermarkets, who are yelling at or threatening their children. I despise threats. I think you should constantly remind children of the consequences of their actions, but when they start acting out, immediately enforce those consequences. (or if you have to enforce it later, say "remember how you were misbehaving? This is why you're in time out/whatever")

Of course, I'm 20 and don't have any kids, so most parents would, at best, ignore anything I have to say. And maybe for a good reason.

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Scott R
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
Scott, I cannot wait until you have a couple 14-17 year-olds.

Meh. They've gotten pretty stringy by that time. Too late to eat 'em; I'll probably send mine to CA.
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scifibum
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quote:
This is a big frustration of mine. Especially when I see parents with uncontrolled children in supermarkets, who are yelling at or threatening their children. I despise threats. I think you should constantly remind children of the consequences of their actions, but when they start acting out, immediately enforce those consequences. (or if you have to enforce it later, say "remember how you were misbehaving? This is why you're in time out/whatever")
This is very good advice. It is very, very hard to do it consistently.
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dabbler
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I hate seeing people yell at their kids. In Hawaii, Justin and I were walking down from Diamond Hill park which is a fairly steep crater edge (I think about an hour and half walk upwards). There was a woman climbing up with a young boy, maybe 4 years old, who was yelling at the boy to stop crying because he was "ruining everyone's vacation." No mom, you're ruining everyone's vacation. Then Justin and I got in a discussion about the blame in that situation (as I thought it was unreasonable to expect the kid to make the climb, and he thought the kid might be a brat). Not 50 feet later, I saw another kiddo cry and her dad was AWESOME. He crouched next to her, hugged her, said nice things, and she cheered up just fine.
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Scott R
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
Scott, I cannot wait until you have a couple 14-17 year-olds.

To speak a little more seriously to this:

You're right. I don't know that all the work we've put into showing the troupe that they can trust M and I will work after all. Although, we've had some significant incidences in the past couple years where they've had the opportunity to not tell us of things that have happened to them/things that they've done: and every time they've trusted us with their fears and tragedies. There is precedent for the belief that continuing to behave the way that we are behaving may produce consistent behaviors from the children.

And if not-- well. That's where unconditional love comes in, isn't it? Even if they feel they can't confide in me, I try to let them know that I will always love them, and support their good decisions, and help them recover from their bad ones.

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PSI Teleport
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A problem I have with parenting advice from childless people is that it's frequently given with the comfort of the advice-giver in mind, rather than the needs of the child. "I'm annoyed with this situation, therefore I must speak out until it is resolved." SO much unsolicited advice comes from people who don't have the patience to deal with small children, and sometimes, for those people, only having a child would teach them that patience.

I'm not talking about all childless people. This has just been my experience so far. And my kids are far from disobedient or rowdy.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I don't know that all the work we've put into showing the troupe that they can trust M and I will work after all.

Actually not what I meant at all. I have every reason to think you and your wife are doing an EXCELLENT job with your kids.

It's just that teenagers are so DIFFERENT than younger kids. Irrational in an entirely different, and often unpredictable, way. I love my parents dearly, trusted them quite a bit, and hardly talked to them during my teenage years. Especially about personal stuff.

I do now. [Smile] And I cannot really tell you why I didn't then, except that it probably has something to do with the degree of stubbornness I inherited from both of them. [Wink]

And while my almost-16 talks to me and her dad a fair bit, we also make sure that she has other people (specific teachers, older (late teens or early 20s) friends) to talk to, who we know, and who we know will tell us if there's anything we need to know. (And she knows that while they don't tell us everything, they'll pass along anything critical.)

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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
This is very good advice. It is very, very hard to do it consistently.

Yes, and children are notorious for noticing inconsistency, too. They may not remember something you asked them to do 5 minutes ago, but they can bring up minor grievances from years ago in a pinch. Or so I've heard.

Whatever I know about parenting I've learned from watching friends who are parents, and also from my own parents when I think back on things they did. For example, I have a friend with 3 sons, and whenever one of them gets a little too rowdy or emotional, he'll take them by the hand and lead them to a quiet corner of the room, then put his arm around them and whisper in their ear. The boy in question responds by whispering back (I think this is an automatic response with children), and within a minute or so he'll be completely calm.

This is something incredibly simple, but I'd have never thought of it if I didn't observe it. (and obviously, many parents never do think of it) I think i should start writing down all of the good techniques I see now, so that when I'm a dad I can remember them.

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Christine
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The thing about children is that everyone has *some* related experience, however slight. If nothing else, everyone was a child at one point, and can reflect on that when considering what to do with children now. Added to that, a lot of people have experience with younger family members, baby-sitting, or teaching.

I kind of agree with the others who say that speaking to non-parents in general terms is ok but speaking about MY children isn't so much. But I'm going to go a step further -- I feel the same way when talking to other parents! [Smile]

No one else in the world is the mother/father of my children.

One thing I noted when I had children, which applies to newborns...in our current society almost no one, save for the actual parents, ever have contact with a baby less than about 6 weeks old. We pretty much stay home with them for 6 weeks, rarely get baby-sitting at that age, most daycares won't take them at that age, etc.

Not that I was all that eager to pass around my newborns, but it was an observation I made. I certainly had never in my life done more than hold a newborn for a few short minutes.

So I am incredibly disinclined to take unsolicited advice on newborns, except from other parents -- and even then, recent parents. My parents completely forgot what I was like at that age! (At least they admitted it and didn't really try to advise me.)

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Hobbes
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I find that I rarely give advice (parenting related or otherwise) even when it is solicited, I just rarely feel comfortable thinking I have anything of value to offer when it comes to advice. This is a more recent phenomena for me, maybe the last few years but that's parenthetical. When it comes up most for me is when there's a discussion on child-rearing or children in general.

I know very little about children seeing as how I don't much like children (you have no idea how incredibly popular this makes me with the Mormon girls I spend time with, but that's another story too) but as I do on just about every subject I have an opinion on them! I am torn though, does having a child give someone fundamental insight into children and child rearing or just a very specific case that then skews their perspective the same way someone whose brother's life was saved by not wearing his seat belt and thus refuses to believe that it's still safer to wear one.

I tend to believe that someone who does (has) have (had) children is in a significantly better position to comment, but not to the exclusion of all other opinions and so often seems to be the case in conversations I'm involved in.

Of course that's probably a wagon we can all hop on because it's so hopelessly unspecific that we can each draw our own line mentally and thus be OK with it even though every one's definition will actually be wildly different. [Dont Know]

Hobbes [Smile]

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
I am torn though, does having a child give someone fundamental insight into children and child rearing

This is the point I was trying to make. I actually take exception to the judgment of other parents almost as much as to the judgment of other non-parents. For example, I don't care how many parents justify the behavior, I do not believe that hitting a child (spanking) is appropriate. Moreover, I find much of the anecdotal evidence in support of this to be flawed.

That's a hot-button issue, but there are plenty of others as well.

Advice is free, and you get what you pay for.

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Hank
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I feel uniquely qualified to respond because I'm not a parent. I'm a professional parent--a live-in nanny.

Now, I generally listen to any advice that comes my way, but I try to treat it like the synonym function in MS Word: sometimes you get exactly what you were looking for, but sometimes it's completely inappropriate and off-base. Partly this is because, as has been said, children are drastically different from one another, but it's also true that people have different end results in mind when they think of raising children.

Remember that thread recently about the definition of a "good" or "bad" person? Parenting is the practical application of that thread.

So, if I'm dragging a screaming child back to the car, it may be because I am a mean parent who doesn't listen to or care about my kids needs. It may also be that I simply refuse to negotiate with terrorists. But sometimes, it might be that I am absolutely at the end of my rope and I can't deal with the situation effectively at that moment.

Because that's the great secret that only parents "really" get: having a child in your life is the most terrifying, draining, intense experience imaginable. It's not just, "Oh, I love them so much. You don't have kids so you don't know love." It's "How can I love them so much when at least once a day I think they're plotting to destroy my sanity? How can I love and cherish someone I am so angry at sometimes?"

I recently read of a study that showed that toddlers require some kind of parental comfort or guidance or assistance an average of SIX TIMES PER SECOND. That is insane.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you haven't had a child really in your life in a way comparable to parenting, there ARE things about parenting that you just don't get, but that doesn't mean you can't see things that parents don't. Any input that is really in the spirit of sharing can be helpful. And if the parent seems to get frustrated, don't take it personally. Their baseline frustration was already pretty high.

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Synesthesia
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I don't like giving advice to people, but when people are harsh towards a child it makes my heart squeeze a little.
I'd like to have kids, but I really wouldn't take advice from my parents, especially my mother because her solution to every problem I had was to hit me with a belt even when I was getting chemo, but I feel bad for her because she got worse as a kid.
So when I have children and their solution is to whip that child I will give them a death stare. I don't even want to try that kind of discipline. There's plenty of people who are parents who expect their children to politely ask to be breast fed thinking that crying is a form of manipulating their parents. Would I take parenting advice from Pearl, Ezzo or Dobson knowing their advice is outdated and not very empathetic to the child? Nope.
I'd take advice from the women at Gentle Christian Mothers and parents who don't believe in not hitting or yelling and being harsh towards kids because they are KIDS. There's many people who don't have children who at least know about attachment and basic child psychology. I only discovered about attachment because I want to adopt one day and that is good for biological children too.

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Teshi
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Six times a second? Did you mean minute? Six times a second seems like it's is unmeaningfully small.
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scifibum
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SIX TIMES A SECOND! THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALL INSANE!

[Wink]

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Dogbreath
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quote:
SIX TIMES PER SECOND. That is insane.
Holy shit! I need to start working on my reflexes! I had no idea being a parent required so much dexterity.
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Hank
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Yeah, yeah. Teach me to post without proofreading.

I'm just gonna go cry myself to sleep.

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Hobbes
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quote:
Because that's the great secret that only parents "really" get: having a child in your life is the most terrifying, draining, intense experience imaginable. It's not just, "Oh, I love them so much. You don't have kids so you don't know love." It's "How can I love them so much when at least once a day I think they're plotting to destroy my sanity? How can I love and cherish someone I am so angry at sometimes?"
Excellent point. This is part of why I don't like kids. [Wink]

quote:
I guess what I'm saying is that if you haven't had a child really in your life in a way comparable to parenting, there ARE things about parenting that you just don't get, but that doesn't mean you can't see things that parents don't. Any input that is really in the spirit of sharing can be helpful. And if the parent seems to get frustrated, don't take it personally. Their baseline frustration was already pretty high.
Pretty decent summing up I think, not that I would know that being the whole point of the thread. [Wink] Anyways, I think that's great advice. Like I said, for myself I'm not much into giving advice of any kind, but perhaps I will be more assertive when it comes to abstract discussions of parenting or children in general. [Dont Know] It seems like most of the parents that responded are more concerned with getting a lot of unsolicited advice to the point of only responding to that concern. I definitely feel their pain (not as parents obviously, as one who recieves that kind of 'help' from others constantly) as a single Mormon (someone back me up here). Not that anyone has to respond but this makes me curious: how many of you have used consciously or not the 'I'm a parent and your not' (trump) card in conversations not directly about your children? Would you think it was wrong and either not do it, or later wish you hadn't, or do you feel it's a valid appeal?

Hobbes [Smile]

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Bob_Scopatz
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Ultimately, if someone is around the kid frequently, their opinion matters more to me than the opinion of someone who is seeing the kid rarely or for the first time. That would be as true for complete strangers as it would be for relatives or even professionals (who, one hopes, would not be quick to render an opinion after only one or a small number of observations. Whether they are a parent themselves or not wouldn't necessarily affect my opinion much. Afterall, there are lots of parents out there whose opinions I wouldn't be interested in regardless of how much experience they have. There are some people who's opinions I would value even though they have never raised a child.
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Anthonie
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I will never have the opportunity to have children.

I don't give much parenting advice. Rather, my closest role in child-rearing is to play with my nephews and nieces until they are overly-stimulated, tell them bizarre things (think Calvin's dad from Calvin and Hobbes comic), and giggle or laugh hysterically when they are doing/saying things they aren't supposed to. I am not being intentionally sadistic or obtrusive either; many times it is amazingly comically original the way kids rile their parents.

[Big Grin]

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
quote:
Because that's the great secret that only parents "really" get: having a child in your life is the most terrifying, draining, intense experience imaginable. It's not just, "Oh, I love them so much. You don't have kids so you don't know love." It's "How can I love them so much when at least once a day I think they're plotting to destroy my sanity? How can I love and cherish someone I am so angry at sometimes?"
Excellent point. This is part of why I don't like kids. [Wink]
I don't like kids, either. I do love mine, though. [Smile]
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katharina
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I am not much interested in babies, but kids start to get interesting right around 7-8 years old. At that point, they are fantastic. Younger than that is okay if they are with their older siblings and trying very hard to fit in with them.

Babies and toddlers are cute but boring. But kids - verbal, mobile, thoughtful kids - are fantastic.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
do you feel it's a valid appeal?
In a nutshell: yes. There are some things about parenting that you simply won't understand until you have been a parent, in the same way that there are things about being poor you won't understand unless you have been poor. Et cetera.

There is a value to life experience that complements (and in some cases trumps) theoretical knowledge of a subject. In my own experience, I find that people who have not been parents find it far easier to make sweeping statements about what is or is not "best" -- since, as people who have not been parents, they have not learned the first lesson of parenting, which is: it depends.

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:

Babies and toddlers are cute but boring. But kids - verbal, mobile, thoughtful kids - are fantastic.

Babies aren't so bad. They don't do much but they also don't need much from you. Hold them and go on with your life. Toddlers, though...they require attention and on their terms, talking to them about the things that interest them which most unfortunately, hold no earthly interest for me.

This is one of a great many reasons why I'm done having kids.

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PSI Teleport
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I love babies and toddlers. But I think twos and threes are my favorite. Everything is amazing to them, everything is new, but they still have their own insight to share. I think getting to know a three-year-old as a person is one of most exciting things you can do.
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