quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Continuing the discussion of what is derogatory or not, if I say to the one, "Your evidence would not convince you if you did not wish to be convinced", is that not the same as telling them they are fooling themselves? The one must follow from the other even if it is not said explicitly. And yet I do not see how I can discuss religion without saying this in one form or another; this is the core of my disagreement with theists.
You are right, both statements are derogatory, but there is a civil alternative. You could simply say "Your evidence is not objectively compelling." It conveys the essence of your argument without making any insulting judgements about why the other person finds it compelling. Unless, of course, the essence of your argument is not about the nature of the evidence but the nature of the person making it. In which case, you're right it can't be said in any non derogatory way. If that's your argument, it violates the spirit if not the letter of the hatrack user agreement.
And you are fooling yourself or socially inept if you can't see the difference between insulting someone and making a claim from which some derogatory inference might logically follow.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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BTW, KOM, Since you are willing to proceed without an arbiter. I'll start counting tomorrow morning. If you make it to June 20 without participating in a religious debate, I'll send you $20.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: It is going to be a long month.
I'm quite looking forward to it. I figure I win either way. Sorry if you see it as a downside kate. I'll happily discuss religion with for the next 30 days if it helps.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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KoM doesn't really bother me as much as some others. At least his anger at religion is somewhat intelligently focused instead of just being angry flailing about.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Drat. It's going to be hard to step up my game while in Salt Lake City. I'd rather just pay a KoM offset.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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What I'm really looking forward to is KoM's clever ways to stay within the rules of the contest and still make good arguments.
Sometimes you get stuck in a rut, and you need some artificial constraints to make you stretch your legs.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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"Not derogatory" I might have been able to game, but "don't participate in religious discussion" seems rather more difficult. Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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When you get right down to it, very little of the Bible was given to "You all, everybody." It would be consistent to ignore almost all of it as being directed to people who are not us.
What I find most frustrating is that many people simply use that as an excuse to pick and choose the parts they want to follow, the parts that they expect others to follow, and the inconvenient bits that are "obviously" for someone else and don't apply.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Haha. Wow, you very nearly summed up my views. A tad more generalized, maybe:
"What I find most frustrating is that many people [snip] pick and choose the parts they want to follow, the parts that they expect others to follow, and the inconvenient bits that are "obviously" for someone else and don't apply.
ETA: And I can understand why they do it. There are inconsistencies and contradictions. You would lose your mind if you didn't do this, if you tried to internalize it as one coherent message. The people that I've met that state that there are aware of this picking and choosing, that the picking and choosing comes from the ethics and morals that they've developed independent from the Bible, are the ones that I can have nice, deep, mutually beneficial discussions with.
Those that state that it's The Truth, that it's all coherent, that it's infallible...I have trouble having a decent discussion with them.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I'll take that one step further -- I find it frustrating that people believe the wrong things. Which, of course, means "different than me". Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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