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Author Topic: "I believe M. Night can ruin the world."
Synesthesia
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Vincent is my favourite.
He wasn't even in the ending CGI. He's so cool.
They should remake the game and make him a regular character. He's so hard to get too.

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Launchywiggin
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I think Shyamalan's movies get more criticism than they deserve. At least they're not painfully formulaic. He plays around and does things differently. The storytelling isn't good, but it's not Michael Bay bad either.

And on top of that, I've always found his cinematography to be great. He's a master at setting the tone of a scene with camera direction. He just needs someone to take over writing his weird stories for him.

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Samprimary
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i ... shyamalan used to HIRE or HAVE good cinematographers (Tak Fujimoto, for one!) and his movies were excellently visually composed. That .. faded away, with the same oddity with which the rest of the qualities of his movies degraded over time.

The cinematography on his projects ('his cinematography') isn't good anymore.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Godric:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
(I will kill the next mofo who uses "Aerith")

...

I call this out as subjective opinion, many people have their own favorites from the shippers who prefer Aerith to Tifa (or Aerith WITH Tifa),

[Confused]
Freudian slip, I meant to use Aeris in seciond sentence.
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scifibum
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Blayne, "Freudian slip" implies more than using the wrong word or name by accident. Do you mean to imply those things every time you say "Freudian slip"?
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TomDavidson
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Perhaps he's saying that he secretly longs to kill himself. I hope not, though.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
As someone whose played and beaten FFI I take offense to this, and also just because it became overhyped doesn't make it a bad game, that's Hype Backlash, it is still on its own merits for its time a genuinely objectively great game.

When did you play FF I? Before or after FFVII? I played FFI the day it was released domestically here in the US, and have picked up and played through every single one since. Even Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. I regret that one.

quote:

A) Pionered CGI cutscenes and 3D gameplay from FF6's 2d 16bit character designs. Kinda like how Mario 64 changed stuff before that.


For Final Fantasy Gamaes, yes. For the gaming industry as a whole, no.
quote:


B) Scifi focus in FF which was steampunk previously, awesome way to breakout the genre and encourage some experimentation.

You considered it Sci-Fi? I still considered it steam punk. Xenosaga is Sci Fi. Chrono Trigger is Sci Fi / Fantasy. FF VII has an asteroid. Other than that it is a standard steam punk setting.
quote:

C) You cannot criticize the character design without remembering context, the polygons for when the designs are roughly a result of the limitations of the engine. Her actual breast size is much more reasonable as shown in Advent children (B cup I think, no more than C).



I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Go back and look at the CGI cut scenes in this game, and tell me Tifa was not made to look like a plastic surgery addict. The polygons had an excuse, the CGI didn't.

quote:


Cloud's angst is hardly emo, he's not given enough credit for the growth he goes through as a character throughout the game, and remember at the beginning when he was amnesiac he was actually fairly upbeat and cheerful.



What game did you play? Cloud had a apathetic attitude at the beginning of the game, and the only person that got him out of his shell was Aeris, who practically threw herself on him. Later in the game he became a little better, but I was still waiting for him to bust out the razor blades and cut himself at any given time.

quote:


quote:
and Aeris acts like a love drunk 13 year old.
I see her more as an Yamato Nadeshiko/Team Mom, the relationship between her and cloud or lack there of was to me something more of an unrequited crush on Cloud's end and something of a replacement goldfish friendship on Aeris's. (I will kill the next mofo who uses "Aerith")




Compare Aeris in FF VII to Aeris in Crisis Core. Two COMPLETELY different characters. Where as Aeris in FFVII CC was mature, Aeris in FF VII acted more immature than a high school student in a romantic anime comedy. And btw, wasn't Aerith the name the Japanese version used?

quote:


quote:
Barrett is a mix between Mr. T and (insert random rapper name here).
First of all how is this a bad thing even if true? Secondly he seemed more like a Mr T and Angry Black guy cross, Berret never rapped afaik, just swore alot and loudly. His back story was also to my mind fairly deep, he was the leader of AVALANCH after all and the reasons driving it were fairly thoughtout and for the time refreshing.



I am white, but was fairly surprised and even offended that the localization team took Barret and turned him into a stereotypical "angry black man." The dialogic that they put in for Barret had lines like "Fo Sho' " and "Foo" and other ebonic like phrases. Every time a dialog box popped up for Barret I could count on seeing at least one "Damn," "Hell," or "Shit." Not so for any other character.

I liked Barret's backstory and found it interesting, but that does not excuse the dialog. This is what I was referring to.
quote:

quote:
The rest of the characters are forgettable and really do not add anything to the story. The only character that is remotely cool is Red XIII.
Shennanigans! I call this out as subjective opinion, many people have their own favorites from the shippers who prefer Aerith to Tifa (or Aerith WITH Tifa), Cid has his own dedicated fanbase (he freakin better as hes the ensemble darkhorse in nearly everygame), Yufie's a freaking NINJA kleptomaniac that would put Tasslehoff to shame, seriously if your willing to go through the backstories to each of the characters they get fairly interesting past their introductions.




And how is this different than hundreds of anime shows out there that have the same CRAZY character or personality types? The only one that I found unique was Red XIII.

quote:


Look, look, I can see how much of what made FF7 unique and excellent may not cut the same grass as well now as before, that's understandable everything in the story that was fresh then has been tried, bulldozed, and purged with fire and salt in many other games since then and yes I can see how some of the bad direction in games may have something originated with FF7.

But this doesn't make it a bad game, just a game that hasn't aged as well as say Earthbound.

For when it was released it was probably the closest thing to solid gold ever released on console and the fact that it made the PS1 and by extension the PS2 the outstanding successes they are is credence to this.

I'm not saying it is a bad game. I enjoyed it. The customization was great. We simply did not have customization like that at the time. In that regard I would say that FF VII was a pioneer in the RPG genre. As far as the story and character design and development are concerned though, I think they were lackluster.

[ July 09, 2010, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Geraine ]

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PSI Teleport
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Was there really character development in FF7? Seems like something fan fiction added later.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with Aerith. Both "s" and "th" are represented by the ス in katakana.

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Geraine
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Fan Fiction and to a lesser extent Crisis Core. Advent Children had the same Cloud that we saw in FFVII.

The writers (or localization team) did a better job on the prequel. Cloud actually had a personality and Aeris acted more like an adult and less like a japanese school girl with dreams of dating the most popular boy in class.

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Synesthesia
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I didn't think Aeris acted like a Japanese school girl.
She actually was pretty strong.

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BlackBlade
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Aeris annoyed me to no end. I always kept her out of my party when I could. When she was murdered, it didn't really affect me because I felt like her, and Cloud's relationship didn't feel real.

I wasn't sure what made Aeris any different, she was just nice to Cloud despite his apathy. All the other characters were too though. I thought the point of FF7 would be Cloud finding redemption by saving the world with his new friends, but instead that got retcon'd for Advent Children and it was kinda lame.


Spoilers*

Instead we get the same Cloud who jumped off the train in FF7 who already has friends, but he's aloof from them. They all show up to help him anyway, and they save the world again, and this time he gets over himself.

Why would it have been so bad to have Cloud already moving on, shacking up with Tifa, running their business together. The geo-stigma is harming Denzel and the other orphans they take care of. Kadash and Co show up looking for "mother" and Cloud gets pulled back in by Shinra to stop Kadash.

Denzel and the other children get taken by Kadash, Tifa gets beaten up by Loz, the materia is stolen. Cloud is taken back to when he couldn't stop Aeris from dying. He feels despair for not being able to protect those he loves and now his materia is gone.

He tracks down Kadaj and Co and starts getting beaten pretty bad whereupon Vincent swoops in and saves him. Cloud is even more depressed because he feels utterly powerless to stop Kadaj and save these kids, Vincent works it out with him and notifies the other members of the gang. Bahamut is summoned though that morning in the square and Cloud, Vincent, Reno, and Rude can't handle it.

The other members of the team show up in dramatic fashion and they proceed to kill the dragon. Kadaj gets the head from Rufus, takes off on his motorcycle with Loz and Yazoo, Cloud chases, the rest of the movie could then go on as planned.

Sure that kills the whole "Cloud Smiles" for the first time ever at the end, but I felt like that was a bogus point in the first place. I didn't feel sufficiently convinced that just because Aeris sorta appeared to him in some dreams, as well as appearing to him with Zack for a few moments before walking off into the light that then Cloud could feel OK moving on.

/spoilers


Anyway, I would have rather watched that movie.

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Launchywiggin
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quote:
The cinematography on his projects ('his cinematography') isn't good anymore.
I'll strongly disagree. I thought the best redeeming qualities of Lady in the Water and The Happening were in the camera work. And say what you want about "his cinematography" not really being "his", the director always gets the final say, period. It's not like he became a director without knowing how to compose a shot. For a quick example: here's the commercial he made for American Express. It's not his best work (some of it is too obvious), but some of it is very subtle. I'll repeat: he's great at setting the tone of a scene with the camera.
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Lyrhawn
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I haven't had the internet for the last week, as I just finished moving, and I don't see a better thread for this so I'll just say it here:

I love Avatar [Smile] .

I spent the last week watching the series straight through, from start to finish, after having only caught bits and pieces of it on TV. I can't believe how good it is, how emotionally invested I was, how great the character development was, how interesting the story was, on and on. I was sad when it ended, glad that it ended so well, with no loose ends. I wish more shows treated their stories the way that Avatar's creators did: with a clearly defined story that had a beginning, middle and end, that wasn't designed to last forever, but rather to tell a story and end. I can't wait for whatever they come up with next. I kept waiting to hate it for being too childish, but I found the comedy enjoyable, and I kept thinking there's no way they could make it mature enough to like, but they did, without making it overly terrifying or violent.

I haven't seen the live-action version, and I'm not sure if I want to. I'm usually pretty hard on adaptations, and I really don't want to be disappointed. But I just had to shout to the mountaintops somewhere how great I think the original is.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Launchywiggin:
quote:
The cinematography on his projects ('his cinematography') isn't good anymore.
I'll strongly disagree. I thought the best redeeming qualities of Lady in the Water and The Happening were in the camera work. And say what you want about "his cinematography" not really being "his", the director always gets the final say, period. It's not like he became a director without knowing how to compose a shot. For a quick example: here's the commercial he made for American Express. It's not his best work (some of it is too obvious), but some of it is very subtle. I'll repeat: he's great at setting the tone of a scene with the camera.
I'm saying it isn't good anymore based on what I saw in The Last Airbender. It was just so weeeirrrd.
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Emreecheek
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It appears that M. Night can indeed ruin the world; he started with Avatar, and has aparently moved on to FFVII.
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Shanna
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I was sad when it ended, glad that it ended so well, with no loose ends.

With the exception of poor Zuko's mom.

You'll be happy to hear that there is another animated "Avatar" series in the works. A few weeks ago it was leaked that Bryan and Michael (the show's creators) were getting involved in a new project and had begun looking for staff. Shortly after Viacom filed a trademark for the title "Avatar Legend of Korra."

The most popular rumor is that the series is set 100 years after "The Last Airbender." It'll probably follow the future Waterbending Avatar which could lead room for an Aang appearance if he mentors this future Avatar like Roku did for him.

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Lyrhawn
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Spoiler alert...


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I guess I sort of assumed that Zuko found her. I guess the only other real question is if Aang really was the last Airbender, or if he somehow refounded the nation. I guess we'll find out about that in the next series. I think it'd be a shame if they couldn't find a way to bring the Air Nomads back. So much of what I liked about Aang was his peaceful nature, and the lessons he recounted from the monks. And especially, the conflict between the violence inherent in being the Avatar and the peaceful non-violence he was taught growing up. It was the exact opposite of the lesson Zuko had to learn, since he was inherently violent, but had to learn peace.

And just for the sake of balance in the world, I'd hate it if they were gone, as theirs was probably the culture I liked the most.

I'd heard that they were working on another series, and I read the rumor that it was about the future. Some were saying that it might be Aang and Katara's daughter, but unless Aang dies before she is born, I don't see how. Either way, yeah, there will be plenty of chances to bring Aang back as a helper spirit.

I'm really curious as to what it'll be about. I mean, it wouldn't make sense if the next Avatar had to do the same thing that Aang did in such a short period of time. Her training will be more traditional, like Roku's was. Though, if Aang does not refound the Air Nomads, it'll be interesting to see how she learns. It'd be cool if her mission as Avatar, to restore balance, was to find some lost tribe of Air Benders to bring back the nation.

I hope they start it soon. I hope it has complicated villains who experience well-developed character growth and are sympathetic.

It's going to be weird moving to a world that's 100 years after this show. Theoretically, they COULD bring back a lot of characters. Gran Gran and Bumi were from a hundred years ago. But I have to abandon all the characters I just finished falling in love with. [Frown] I'm sure I'll love the new ones though.

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FoolishTook
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I'm on Book II of Avatar right now.

I love the show. I don't normally care for anything animated or cartoonish, but the story is pretty good.

When I heard M. Night was making The Last Airbender, I wanted to learn a little about the story. I was only ever interested in Avatar because of M. Night. I'm an unabashed Shyamalan fan and love all of his movies--don't make me go all Chris Crocker on everyone--with the exception of The Last Airbender (I'm still torn between hate/love/disappointment/frustration/disgust/hope that maybe, somewhere, somehow, there's a good cut of the movie.)

Anyway, I love the series, but I'm a wee bit late to the game. (How about some Spoiler Warnings, folks? [Smile] ) Taking my time to watch it, because I hate when good things come to an end.

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scifibum
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Geraine: you don't consider steampunk to be science fiction?
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Scott R
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Geraine: you don't consider steampunk to be science fiction?

I'm not sure *I* consider steampunk science fiction. A good deal of it relies on the continuation and propagation of technology that shouldn't realistically last long at all.

But I sure do enjoy it!

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Shanna
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Spoiler alert...


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I guess I sort of assumed that Zuko found her. I guess the only other real question is if Aang really was the last Airbender, or if he somehow refounded the nation. I guess we'll find out about that in the next series. I think it'd be a shame if they couldn't find a way to bring the Air Nomads back. So much of what I liked about Aang was his peaceful nature, and the lessons he recounted from the monks. And especially, the conflict between the violence inherent in being the Avatar and the peaceful non-violence he was taught growing up. It was the exact opposite of the lesson Zuko had to learn, since he was inherently violent, but had to learn peace.

And just for the sake of balance in the world, I'd hate it if they were gone, as theirs was probably the culture I liked the most.

I'd heard that they were working on another series, and I read the rumor that it was about the future. Some were saying that it might be Aang and Katara's daughter, but unless Aang dies before she is born, I don't see how. Either way, yeah, there will be plenty of chances to bring Aang back as a helper spirit.

I'm really curious as to what it'll be about. I mean, it wouldn't make sense if the next Avatar had to do the same thing that Aang did in such a short period of time. Her training will be more traditional, like Roku's was. Though, if Aang does not refound the Air Nomads, it'll be interesting to see how she learns. It'd be cool if her mission as Avatar, to restore balance, was to find some lost tribe of Air Benders to bring back the nation.


SPOILER ALERT!!


I'm also really interested in how they're going to bring the Air Nomads back. Its hard to imagine the Avatar universe without them! And the show never addressed whether bending is something that is genetic or cultural or whatever. And we also don't know about about the Air Nomad lifestyle. They're described as nomadic and Aang mentioned on a few occasions that he had friends all over the world. And yet they obviously have "homebases" with the four temples. But what we've seen of life in the temples, its largely elder monks and young monks. Aang described Gyatso as a father figure but never mentioned his own parents. So where are the baby airbenders? Were they born at one temple and then sent off to train at another temple once they reach a certain age? Do monks who reach a certain level of mastery "graduate" from being students and do they stay at the temples or take on a truly nomadic lifestyle?

As for her being Aang's and Katara's daughter...I don't know. I agree it'll probably be a female lead. But I don't know how I feel about the daughter thing. One some level, it could be cool and certainly carry a certain amount of emotional weight especially since he'd have to die before she was born. On the other hand, there's a certain squick factor to that and it feels alittle overdone to me. I think I'd rather something fresh.

I heard a cool theory the other day that I liked. It'd be cool if the conflict revolved more around the Spirit World. SOOO many fans loved Koh and so we know there are good spirits and bad spirits and good spirits who can turn bad if people screw with them.

quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I hope they start it soon. I hope it has complicated villains who experience well-developed character growth and are sympathetic.

It's going to be weird moving to a world that's 100 years after this show. Theoretically, they COULD bring back a lot of characters. Gran Gran and Bumi were from a hundred years ago. But I have to abandon all the characters I just finished falling in love with. [Frown] I'm sure I'll love the new ones though.

I'm trying to imagine 100+ year old Sokka. The image makes me laugh quite a bit. At the same time, I feel like maybe it should be a fresh new start and hopefully not rely on the previous generation outside a small cameo or quick mention.

I feel like Bryan and Michael have proven themselves as world-builders and great storytellers. Its like, we watch Book One and we've Sokka as the comedic sidekick. And then Book Two comes along and add Toph as a variation on the same role. We saw the same thing happen with Zuko and Azula. There's a certain structure and archetype that works, but they're really good at giving it a fresh twist and keeping it original.

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Raymond Arnold
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I think it's reasonable science fiction to say "if this particular idea WERE true, what would be consequences?" In this case, if you did have people who could manipulate fire at will, I think it's reasonable to expect technology to leap forward in interesting ways. The War Balloons and Steam Ships definitely make sense. The tanks... eh, a little more out there but still doable.
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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Geraine: you don't consider steampunk to be science fiction?

I'm not sure *I* consider steampunk science fiction. A good deal of it relies on the continuation and propagation of technology that shouldn't realistically last long at all.

But I sure do enjoy it!

Why is "I" emphasized, out of curiosity?

Steampunk's chief identifying characteristic is a certain sort of (speculative) technological milieu. That is one of the most clear cut identifiers for science fiction, IMO.

I think an unrealistic (or incoherent) steampunk milieu might affect the quality of the product, but not its genre alignment...same as bad space opera. (Which is not to say there can't be genre overlap, of course. Just that broadly, the things that make steampunk steampunk also make it science fiction.)

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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Geraine: you don't consider steampunk to be science fiction?

I'm not sure *I* consider steampunk science fiction. A good deal of it relies on the continuation and propagation of technology that shouldn't realistically last long at all.

But I sure do enjoy it!

Why is "I" emphasized, out of curiosity?

Because Scott is the ultimate authority on science fiction.

No, wait, that's not it. Probably because you were asking Geraine, but he also wanted to answer that question, and wanted to stress that he was not answering for Geraine. [Smile]

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