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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Ender's Game movie, again (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Ender's Game movie, again
MattP
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Maybe it'll "take" this time.

http://screenrant.com/enders-game-movie-alex-kurtzman-roberto-orci-sandy-98748/

https://twitter.com/boborci/status/31165251416227840

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Bella Bee
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You know, Kurtzman and Orci might actually do this thing right. They sure know how to delve into the grey areas of morality in fascinating ways.
They can write a weird, screwed up family dynamic and make you care for the characters. They can write really funny lines.

And they also blow stuff up in really pretty ways.

If it wasn't, you know, the Ender's Game movie (and therefore doomed), I could almost see this working out.

Maybe Haley Joel Osment could play Mazer. [Evil]

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PSI Teleport
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That article's characterization of Ender feels really off. Words like "violent," "dangerous," and "ruthless," while technically true, paint him with an odd brush that would leave first time readers confused.
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rollainm
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Wait...they wrote the Transformers scripts? Well frick. This is quite disappointing.

Can we please just have a Scifi miniseries?

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Strider
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PSI, I was thinking the same thing. They were using words that seemed technically accurate while at the same time completely mis-characterizing Ender and the book.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by rollainm:
Wait...they wrote the Transformers scripts? Well frick. This is quite disappointing.

The movies might have been better if Michael Bay wasn't invol-***EXPLOSION!***.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
quote:
Originally posted by rollainm:
Wait...they wrote the Transformers scripts? Well frick. This is quite disappointing.

The movies might have been better if Michael Bay wasn't invol-***EXPLOSION!***.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155700/those-arent-ideas-theyre-special-fx
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Samprimary
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anyway i eagerly anticipate this actually working, much like i am sure that this is the year xenu returns and rewards all good scientologists with candy.
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C3PO the Dragon Slayer
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I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

OSC wrote in a recent Reviews Everything column (I think it was the Dawn Treader one) where he said he would be happy if the Ender's Game script at least contained the occasional line of dialogue from the novel, and in a recent interview he said that if this attempt at an Ender's Game movie doesn't work out he's bagging the whole project. This may imply that he has become skeptical about whether this will really work out. He also mentioned in his recent 2010 films column that some terrible movies that get made make him think "these abominations get approved, funded, and made and I can't get a quality adaptation of Ender's Game?" It may be Kurtzman and Orci's script that OSC was thinking about when complaining about the lack of lines from the novel.

I, as much as anyone, would love to see a good Ender's Game movie. If it turns out that this is the big break and a quality film really does get made, I will be a very happy man. Until then, I'll resume my life putting such vain hopes out of my mind so that I can remain functioning happily.

Really, there are several OSC books that would work much better on film than Ender's Game, but that doesn't mean the EG project should automatically be scrapped. I'd personally like to see an Enchantment movie, which is very filmable if you hand-wave the language barriers.

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Sterling
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I'm remembering my sister talking about seeing footage of the auditions for The Phantom Menace and saying, in essence, that while the kid they picked to play Vader was gawd-awful, he was actually one of the better options of the offerings.

*shudder*

The pedigree of the scriptwriters does not inspire heaps of confidence. The idea of EG finally coming to the screen as a action-packed, standardized script is more than a little heart-rending.

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Blayne Bradley
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EG should be an anime, it'ld be able to be done with a vastly lower budget (and thus higher profit from theaters and thus looks healthier to producers and thus greater chance of sequels because lets face it unless its a blockbuster hit its not getting any).

And you could get older actors do the voices of the children and loosen up what would otherwise be a fairly difficult restriction.

At the very least you would have a guaranteed audience in the states from both EG fans and NA Otaku's AND you'ld be a hit in Japan.

Someone for the love of god tweet back to them "Please do not suck."

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Blayne Bradley
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Oh and Ender doesn't need softening, the simple fact is bullying from a childs perspective is a very tramauting experience, all they need is the Stilsen and Bonzo scenes to have enough emotion behind them from both 'cameras' and Ender's perspective so that the audience, especially those in it whove been bullied before can sympathize with ender.
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Raymond Arnold
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I'm not sure it necessarily needs to be "anime" rather than just "animated" (dunno what precise definition you're assigning the word) but I agree with the sentiment.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
I'm not sure it necessarily needs to be "anime" rather than just "animated" (dunno what precise definition you're assigning the word) but I agree with the sentiment.

I would say either Akira or Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (Season one for the love of god, season 2 went a different route) or Infinite Ryvius animation art style.

Akira and Ryvius were "dark" I don't know the precise term but the background you draw on is black instead of white, same thing with Batman and Batman Beyond, Haruhi is "bright" but then again being a space station and significant out door scenes in bright summer day it might make more sense that way.

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Herblay
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Gosh, stop the animation train. Nobody would watch the dang thing.

Forget Michael Bay's monstrosity. These are the guys who brought us the new Star Trek, Mission Impossible III, and Fringe. I say, bring it on (my only concern is the director -- Wolverine was BAD).

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Samprimary
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Don't stop the animation train. You could probably get a legitimately better product out of it animated, since you aren't confined to the performance output of a slew of young child actors who have to take up most of the major roles.

Which, I'm sorry, simply isn't happening unless the planets align in some unforeseen way.

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Blayne Bradley
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They probably are if we agreed on something.

The advantages are:
-Cheaper to produce; and thus far more attractive to producers who look at Ender's Game and find it risky.
--As a corollary if its cheaper and does "really well" it is far more likely to be green lit for sequels or an expansion of the visual franchise, mini-series, ova's, maybe a tv series.
-Has a gauranteed audience from both EG fans and anime fans of which there is probably strong overlap; and thus will also do well overseas in Japan or Taiwan and Singapore.
-not limited to so-so quality child actors, older actors who are skilled at sounding young or female older actors can do the job and bring about a more 'natural' sounding performance.
-Far more likely OSC could retain significant creative control over the final produce and animation allows for a significant higher chance of it remaining true to the books.
--for example EG and ES uses alot of "inner monologues" as a narrative tool that I've only ever seen properly done in animation and rarely done in live action well (Dune miniseries?).

There is just about every reason for it with the only reasons against being the quickly eroding institution bias against animation in mainstream US mindset regarding "cartoons as childrens things".

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rollainm
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quote:
There is just about every reason for it with the only reasons against being the quickly eroding institution bias against animation in mainstream US mindset regarding "cartoons as childrens things".
Or maybe most people just prefer live action. Period.
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Samprimary
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It's true. As an animated movie, it will likely have a harder sell and a smaller audience.

This is, however, a hypothetically smaller audience in a hypothetical competition between a live action EG and an animated EG which are of equal overall artistic quality. The reason why EG would probably do better as an animated product is because it's nearly impossible to avoid the issue of EG's cast of young children. you could make a throwaway tentpole with children, but you're not getting memorable results working with that large of a child cast. Sorry.

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Raymond Arnold
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I actually think it should be anmated, but not anime, specifically because I know a lot of people with a bit of an aversion to anime. I think that aversion is irrational, but there's a pretty clear divide between people who like it and people who don't. It signals some particular brands of geekiness that frighten the general population.(This trend may be reversed in asia, not sure how the overall finances work out there).

[ January 30, 2011, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
I actually think it should be anmated, but not anime, specifically because I know a lot of people with a bit of an aversion to anime. I think that aversion is irrational, but there's a pretty clear divide between people who like it and people who don't. It signals some particular brands of geekiness that frighten the general population.

Thats what having a competent trailer.

Also;

Word of Mouth.

Lots of extended previews.

A good media advertisement.

Ponyo did well in theaters didn't it? As well as Halo: Legends? (Direct to DVD but whatever)

We're already dealing with a franchise that has Asperger afflicted prepubescents fighting an interstellar war via videogames I think we are well way past the geekiness threshold event horizon and into the geekiness singularity.

The US audience will never shake off its aversion unless we manage to KEEP throwing food quality animated movies at them and EG would be a good pick.

The people who already like Ender's Game aren't gonna NOT see the movie if it happens to be animesque.

Did these hypothetical people ever watch Avatar The Last Airbender? If they did then they already have watched anime!

Besides what are you attributing as 'anime' art style wise here that would instantly turn people off? Pokemon? I could bet you show a death note trailer to them they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and Justice League.

There's an even clearer better solution here, use anime, that is probably superior art styles to choose from to tell this kind of story but then in the trailers or PVs don't call it an anime just say animated brought to you by Disney and Studio Gonzo and Studio 17Celsius and I could bet you almost anything that if they do not see any of the typical anime cliches like 'sweet drops' etc then they wouldn't be able to tell.

The people with a typical aversion to anime do so because of bad voice acting and animation cliche's exclusive to cruddier or humourful/whimsical productions that if you remove that and use a more mature artstyle they won't be able to tell, I could bet anything.

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Raymond Arnold
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I wonder how much of my opinion here is based on weird marketing things as opposed to the the actual qualities of anime itself. For example, I saw the trailer for Appleseed on apple.com, and thought it was really cool. But I don't think it ever showed up in mainstream theaters, so I never ended up watching it. If Ender's Game was actually marketed aggressively in America, it'd probably do well whatever it's animation style.

>Did these hypothetical people ever watch Avatar The Last Airbender? If they did then they already have watched anime!

While I think your argument is valid, it's worth noting that there are substantial differences between a lot of anime and Avatar. After watching Avatar, I thought "hey, maybe now I should try to watch all these good anime shows I keep hearing about," but what I found is that there are some fundamental differences between the way Japan tells stories and the way America does. Some of these are minor visual cues (for example, using "nosebleed" to indicate lust). A more substantial one is the way the characters tend to narrate everything as they're doing it. A friend of mine tried to get to watch some show about a sniper, and the way the characters spoke just sounded so weird (we were watching with subtitles). It went against everything I can had been taught about "show don't tell," which is commonly accepted in American cinema.

I fully enjoy Miyazaki movies (partly they have good voice acting, partly they just seem structured in a way that's closer to American sensibilities), but I've never been able to get into the anime TV shows, even ones with plots I knew were interesting, because the choices were between bad voice acting and weird foreign dialogue that wasn't *wrong* but just sounded strange because of cultural differences.

This wouldn't be inherently problematic with an Ender's Game adaptation if it was made in America, but people might still associate the visual style with the cultural language gap.

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Lyrhawn
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I would rather see a great animated version of EG than a watered down live action version.

I'm not holding out much hope for it though. The only animated thing I'm looking forward to any time soon is the next Avatar show.

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Blayne Bradley
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Arnold I have two links which are now officially required reading for you:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PublicMediumIgnorance

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimationAgeGhetto

Read and be enlightened!

The 'nosebleed' thing is a trope associated with only some anime, usually shonen it's supposed to be a way of 'getting crap past the radar' but specifically was for animes specifically targeted at teenagers (ie their version of saturday morning cartoons), it dissapears and completely vanishes and 90% of any other demographic.

quote:

It went against everything I can had been taught about "show don't tell," which is commonly accepted in American cinema.

Show not tell is "people walking the talk" right? 90% of anime actually does this afaik, so you probably just lucked out and missed it there with a small sample size.
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DDDaysh
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While a part of me would LOVE to see Ender and a battle room scene on the big screen, I really REALLY hope this movie never gets made. An animated version or a mini series I might be able to deal with, but I just can't see a live action Hollywood version working.

Personally, I thought Hollywood destroyed "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" (though I realize others feel differently) and have no wish to see them destroy any more stories by forcing them into an ultra condensed version just to get it on screen.

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DDDaysh
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Oh, here's the quote from the goodreads interview...

"OSC: I have written screenplays in which I solved most of the serious problems that Ender's Game poses to the screenwriter. Unfortunately, not one of the screenwriters who has been hired has shown the slightest sign of learning anything from my screenplays. In fact, I would be relieved if one of them would simply include an occasional scene from the book, so I can see some evidence that they've read it. I will be bitterly disappointed if a movie version comes out in which Ender Wiggin shows no spark of leadership, no evidence of why other people put their faith in him. I still have hope that we'll get a decent movie out of the current team. But I'll tell you this: I would rather have no movie than a bad one. And if this attempt doesn't come up with a script that is both good and Ender's Game, I'm shelving it for the rest of my life. I've given this time-sucking project too many years of my life already. I have a dozen novels that can be adapted far more easily to the screen than Ender's Game, and I'll put my movie-developing time into them."

Since that was just published this month, I have a feeling that he is seeing the same problem in the new screenwriters portrayals of Ender that many of you saw in the article.

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BlackBlade
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I think Don Bluth, and his animators could do fantastic things with Ender's Game. Sure their last major movie was Titan AE, but I'm convinced with source material like Ender's Game, it would be brilliant.
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Hobbes
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I'd obviously go see any (legitimate) Ender's Game movie, but I'd be severely disappointed if it was anime. I'm hardly an expert on the field, (I don't like, why would I be?) but I find it very hard, if not impossible, to connect to the story or characters of an anime movie. Some of the more stylistic ones like Spirited Away (I'm told that's anime) I can appreciate for their art, but I never can connect. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this either, I find it hard to believe an anime version would be a big market movie. I also find it hard to believe a studio would see a very visual, sci-fi story like Ender's Game and not think of a heavily CGI (or entirely CGI animated) movie.

Hobbes [Smile]

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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I think Don Bluth, and his animators could do fantastic things with Ender's Game. Sure their last major movie was Titan AE, but I'm convinced with source material like Ender's Game, it would be brilliant.

Speaking of Bluth, I watched The Land Before Time earlier today. Hadn't seen it in nearly twenty years. It sure brought back a lot of childhood memories.

Anyway. Carry on. [Smile]

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
I'd obviously go see any (legitimate) Ender's Game movie, but I'd be severely disappointed if it was anime. I'm hardly an expert on the field, (I don't like, why would I be?) but I find it very hard, if not impossible, to connect to the story or characters of an anime movie. Some of the more stylistic ones like Spirited Away (I'm told that's anime) I can appreciate for their art, but I never can connect. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this either, I find it hard to believe an anime version would be a big market movie. I also find it hard to believe a studio would see a very visual, sci-fi story like Ender's Game and not think of a heavily CGI (or entirely CGI animated) movie.

Hobbes [Smile]

The problem here is specifically specific to Spirited Away and not to Anime as an animation style, Spirited Away is still very much a window into Japanese culture and almost certainly character values that reasonate more with Japanese viewers, but this isn't a problem that would happen with Ender's Game as if directed and produced by American writers and only animated via outsourcing you are going to have an easy time connecting.

If you connected to the characters in the novels you should have no problem connecting with an anime version as it could very likely be 99% true to the books.

Download and give Halo: Legends a look, should give you a good idea of American produced anime could be like in like half a dozen different styles.

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Hobbes
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I've seen enough Anime to know I don't like it. It's not a moral judgement, it's just not for me. When I see it I can't see the people on screen as people, only as drawings.

Hobbes [Smile]

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Sterling
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If, say, Peter Cheung were to direct an Ender's Game movie, I'd certainly be tempted to give it a look.
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Amilia
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes:
I'd obviously go see any (legitimate) Ender's Game movie, but I'd be severely disappointed if it was anime. I'm hardly an expert on the field, (I don't like, why would I be?) but I find it very hard, if not impossible, to connect to the story or characters of an anime movie. Some of the more stylistic ones like Spirited Away (I'm told that's anime) I can appreciate for their art, but I never can connect. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this either, I find it hard to believe an anime version would be a big market movie. I also find it hard to believe a studio would see a very visual, sci-fi story like Ender's Game and not think of a heavily CGI (or entirely CGI animated) movie.

Hobbes [Smile]

I tend to feel very similarly. It's not that I can't connect to any anime. I adored Hikaru no Go, and have watched it several times. Grave of the Fireflies made me cry. But these titles are in the minority. Just as often I have watched the first several episodes of an anime . . . and then just sort of trailed off because I didn't really care about the characters or the plot. And these are good shows, ones that everybody loves and recommends. Like Avatar or Fullmetal Alchemist.

Then there are shows like Nodame Cantabile. I enjoyed the anime, enough to watch it all the way through, anyway. It's a romantic comedy about two music students, but I just couldn't see what she brought to the relationship. It seemed like he was doing everything for her, and she wasn't doing a thing for him. Then I discovered there was a live action version. Watching it, I suddenly got it. I could see that he was drowning in despair and self loathing, and that she pulled him out of it. The relationship worked. The live action is actually more over the top and cartoony than the anime, but somehow it spoke to me when the anime didn't. I fell in love with the show and have become mildly obsessed with it.

So while you all make good points for Ender's Game to be animated, I personally would prefer live action.

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Orincoro
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There's a visceral quality in Ender's Game, reflected in Ender's experiences of exhaustion, physical depletion, etc, that wouldn't really transfer well to animation. Anime uses distorted and exaggerated physics and images of human suffering *specifically* to overcome this shortcoming. That's what a lot of anime fans don't get about why it isn't more popular in America. It has serious shortcomings that, while they can be overcome in interesting ways, and while they in fact challenge their writers to innovate interestingly in terms of dialogue and story as well as art, still place it below the register of live action film in terms of visceral experiential quality. I suspect that's exactly *why* it's so popular among geeks in America, and so popular among the general public in Japan. There is some common ground there. But anime fans should keep in mind that there are more reasons than snobbish rejection that many people don't take to the genre.

And specifically to Ender's Game, a great deal of the strength of the story is the focus on actual relatable human suffering- and a strong sense of humanity v. the otherness of the buggers- the reality of private conversations, the battle room, and physical fatigue v. the unreality of aliens and combat light years away in space. If you transpose everything onto a two dimensional plane of animation where all the images have the same register of reality- sp that everything, the mindgame, Ender's dreams, the battle simulations, the propaganda vids, and the physical fights looks like everything else, then there is no shading of reality as represented in the novel. The dreams will feel as fake as the game- the simulation as fake as the battle room. The sunshine on Ender's face on the lake will be meaningless, because animation of a space station environment and animation of a lake on Earth are not going to be that different- whereas in live action, you just *feel* the difference, you don't need to be shown that it is different. That's why a film lasts for a few hours, and a book for hundreds of pages- it takes that much longer to create the reality in a novel, but a film doesn't have that kind of time. This, btw, being the same reason that Anime series lend themselves to length as well- their weaknesses become strengths over time, where a film story would exhaust its audience at such lengths.

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Dan_Frank
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That was very well said, Orincoro.
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PSI Teleport
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Orincoro: While I agree with some of the things you said about animation versus live action and how that would apply to Ender's Game, I have to point out that you've made a lot of assumptions here about the nature of anime and it's meaning to the Japanese people without, apparently, having a very firm grasp of the culture in question. For example, the reason anime series tend to be long and drawn out is because most of them are based on source material that is long and drawn out. I'm referring to the weekly serialized comic, a medium that is frequently encouraged by the editors and distributors to amble aimlessly, picking up and dropping plot lines with no other goal than to grab the most [teenage/young adult] readers each week and meet arbitrary (to the general public) sales numbers.

And, while anime is very popular among the general Japanese public, your reason as to why you think that might be true seems to miss the fact that the Japanese also have a rich live-action genre that is equally popular, if not more so. If you ask the average Japanese person what the greatest film of all time is, you're far more likely to hear "Rashamon" or "Tampopo" over a Miyazaki anime.

It probably seems like a minor quibble that only barely relates to the topic at hand, and I know I'm coming off like an otaku-to-the-extreme here, but I cringe a little whenever I see someone jump to point out "why" certain people value the things they do based on information that seems, to me, to have been analyzed and typed up on the fly. The Japanese are reserved in social situations, it's true, but they still value raw emotion and the visceral experience. One only has to watch a well-loved samurai movie to grasp this.

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El JT de Spang
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The EG movie OSC wants is never getting made. He's not nearly powerful or famous enough to power through his own script (nor does he have the necessary writing credits for a big studio to just take his script and run with it), and his insistence on not aging the main characters to a more relatable (and, much more importantly, castable) age* is a deal-breaker. I'd like to say it's just obstinance on his part, but I really can't blame him for not wanting Hollywood to **** up his most famous work.

Now I'm looking into my future at me saying the sentence, "Well, it sucks OSC died, but at least now we may get an EG movie."

*Again, not saying I blame him. But there's no question he's been the one digging in his heels on certain areas for over a decade now.

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Geraine
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I say do a mini series about Mazer, and if it goes over well greenlight a full series based on Ender's Game. Have it be a mash up of Ender's Shadow and Ender's Game. The first season could end where the book did (You could probably do two seasons actually) Then you could continue on with Speaker and do a spinoff with Bean.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
There's a visceral quality in Ender's Game, reflected in Ender's experiences of exhaustion, physical depletion, etc, that wouldn't really transfer well to animation. Anime uses distorted and exaggerated physics and images of human suffering *specifically* to overcome this shortcoming. That's what a lot of anime fans don't get about why it isn't more popular in America. It has serious shortcomings that, while they can be overcome in interesting ways, and while they in fact challenge their writers to innovate interestingly in terms of dialogue and story as well as art, still place it below the register of live action film in terms of visceral experiential quality. I suspect that's exactly *why* it's so popular among geeks in America, and so popular among the general public in Japan. There is some common ground there. But anime fans should keep in mind that there are more reasons than snobbish rejection that many people don't take to the genre.

And specifically to Ender's Game, a great deal of the strength of the story is the focus on actual relatable human suffering- and a strong sense of humanity v. the otherness of the buggers- the reality of private conversations, the battle room, and physical fatigue v. the unreality of aliens and combat light years away in space. If you transpose everything onto a two dimensional plane of animation where all the images have the same register of reality- sp that everything, the mindgame, Ender's dreams, the battle simulations, the propaganda vids, and the physical fights looks like everything else, then there is no shading of reality as represented in the novel. The dreams will feel as fake as the game- the simulation as fake as the battle room. The sunshine on Ender's face on the lake will be meaningless, because animation of a space station environment and animation of a lake on Earth are not going to be that different- whereas in live action, you just *feel* the difference, you don't need to be shown that it is different. That's why a film lasts for a few hours, and a book for hundreds of pages- it takes that much longer to create the reality in a novel, but a film doesn't have that kind of time. This, btw, being the same reason that Anime series lend themselves to length as well- their weaknesses become strengths over time, where a film story would exhaust its audience at such lengths.

The entire second wall of text is conclusively disproved by just about anything by Studio Shaft and I'm fairly certain you've never watched more than a few series at most as there are dozens of well received animes that do that job just fine.

And specifically to Ender's Game we've had the first argument before, Ender's Game would trounce a live action movie in this regard because child actors would be incredibly unlikely to show successfully that level of physical exhaustion or emotion as convincingly as animation.

And since studios have been at least partially insisting on changing details like the ethnic makeup of battleschool to reflect the US instead of the world and others details that I thought ridiculous until I saw that they did to Last Airbender that animation gets another massive boost in that it would be easier to reflect the world demographic makeup more ambiguously due to the statelessness of most character designs.

Cuz' hey, all a character needs to do to make a convincing claimt to being Petra in my eyes is slightly darker skin and claim to be Armenian and I'm content.

As specific examples of human suffering and balls to the walls mind effery we have Neon Genesis Evangelion hands down in that category, Infinite Ryvius captures the exhaustion of a crew of child cadets phenomenally well, and just about anything by Shaft does the whole reality warping mind buggery thing hands down, they are masters at it.

Also the average anime series is 12-13 episodes in length (of 20 minutes of length) and most of the best quality shows are that length, only about a dozen to my mind are 100+, most are 26 epsides, and more than a few have been shortened into compilation movies like NGE or Gurren Lagann.

And there's "plenty" of movie length ones as well.

Also, many scifi anime's use well blended CGI as needed, anime has no weaknesses when it comes to showing different shades of reality, like for example Bakemonogatari and Vanishment of Haruhi Suzumiya that do it subtly and then there's Puella Mahou Madoka Magica that hits you with a break with it but still well blended.

Reality has just got spanked.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

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TomDavidson
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Blayne, I hate to play this card -- but as someone with Asperger's, you may want to concede that you do not necessarily perceive the human emotions of others (as reflected on faces) in the same way that "normal" people do. While cartoons might appear to you to sacrifice little emotional depth, you might consider that someone without your difficulties could see it another way.
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Aros
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Blayne,

I think that you're overestimating the number of people that would watch it as an anime. You stated that Ponyo did well at the box office . . . it made $15M with large distribution by Disney. That's terrible. And there's no way that EG could beat Miyazaki's biggest release to date.

Even a bad EG live-action movie would be better than a movie that nobody (meaning the general public, not just the tiny cross-section of anime fans) would see. At least it'll get some kids to read the book.

[ January 31, 2011, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Aros ]

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Blayne Bradley
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Possibly, but I can tell the difference between "good" emotional depth and fairly wooden depth, or episode 12 of Katanagatari (you could really feel Shichika's grief) versus the entirety of Starship Operators (got to be the most unmotivated unpatriotic group of freedom fighters ever, of all time).
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
Blaine,

I think that you're overestimating the number of people that would watch it as an anime. You stated that Ponyo did well at the box office . . . it made $15M with large distribution by Disney. That's terrible. And there's no way that EG could beat Miyazaki's biggest release to date.

Even a bad EG live-action movie would be better than a movie that nobody (meaning the general public, not just the tiny cross-section of anime fans) would see. At least it'll get some kids to read the book.

B.l.a.y.n.e...


The thing is a Live Action EG isn't likely to have that much of an audience either and be vastly more expensive, at best it can hope for the base EG fans and scifi fans +15% of people who go by good movie reviews assuming its "good" if its not good those numbers probably fall by 30% as word of mouth discourages people from seeing it and because its more expensive either a failure or a mediocre break even showing would probably kill the franchise in terms of finding a visual medium.

An anime would still get the same audience, scifi geeks, EG fans +15% because by being true to the book it would be "good" maybe some more if Ebert likes it and if people still listen to Ebert anymore and because it is vastly cheaper the bottom line will look that much better.

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Aros
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I apologize for the spelling mistake, but I'd disagree wholeheartedly.

If Kurtzman and Orci get a studio to sign on, it'll get large distribtuion and in all likelihood blow past Ponyo's measly $15M in the opening weekend. They write mainstream.

You refer to Ebert -- unless the anime were done by Miyazaki himself, Ebert won't even see it. Nor will it be released in theaters. Are you really arguing that direct-to-dvd ala Halo would "still get the same audience" as an honest-to-goodness Hollywood release?

I'm not arguing that there's anything wrong with anime. My only point is that people who watch anything other than Miyazaki are in a VERY small minority. Heck, people that watch Miyazaki are in a VERY small minority (at least in America). My family are all big fans, and we saw Ponyo on the opening weekend. There were two other people in the theater.

Yes, there's a dang good chance that an anime version would be vastly better -- but what does it matter if no one watches it? I'm all for an HBO (or Showtime) big budget series, if we really want to talk about the best medium.

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Geraine
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Here is the way I see it. In the US, animated movies don't make a lot of money in the cinema unless they are put out by Disney, Pixar, or Dreamworks. The movies are heavily marketed and released as family movies.

Miyazaki has been the only one that that has really been able to bring a foreign animation film to the US and have it perform relatively well. Most of Studio Ghibli's films are aimed towards families or children, but they don't have the same feel as the feel good Disney/Pixar films. The films often deal with issues in brutal ways.

Kiki's Delivery Service, My Neighbor Totoro, Ponyo, and the Cat Returns are all kid friendly movies. I'd have no problem showing these movies to little kids. Ponyo was really the only one released here in the US.

I wouldn't let little kids watch Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away. They are too creepy, violent, or bloody for kids.

Princess Mononoke was released in 1999 on only 120-130 screens and grossed $2.3 million in the time it was available in the theaters.

Spirited Away was released in 2002 on 714 screens and made $10 million or so. It won an Oscar for Best Animated Feature over Ice Age and Lilo and Stitch, Both of which made over $140 million each.

It isn't that Miyazaki's films aren't good. Everything his studio releases is gold. The problem is that the average American doesn't know how good the films are. They stick with the studios whose films they grew up watching. Disney / Pixar could produce a film that is utter crap, and it would still gross over $100 million.

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Jake
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I wouldn't let little kids watch Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away. They are too creepy, violent, or bloody for kids.

Would you let kids be exposed to fairy tales?
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katharina
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I would never watch it as an anime. Every anime I've seen, with the only exception of Grave of the Fireflies, has been boring. A few have been mildly interesting, but then: boring. I hate the stylized depictions, the pace, the cutting, and the (accidental? worse!) surrealism, and putting the very visceral, weary, and American Ender's Game into such an offputting format would be dreadful. The last thing the Ender's Game movie needs is 20 minutes of walking through hallways.
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Blayne Bradley
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YMMV, you maybe just need to watch more Tear Jerker ones then, like Angel Beats or Wandering Son (story of a girl who wants to be a boy and a boy who wants to be a girl, its on CrunchyRoll go see it).

I don't really see how it matters if you wouldn't see it or not; I would watch it either way if you consider yourself a fan and the anime is for all intents and purposes true to the books I think you owe it to OSC to see it, if you bought the book, whats the difference from buyng a movie ticket or watching it when it comes to DVD?

Your not very constructive so I hardly see how it matters.

quote:

If Kurtzman and Orci get a studio to sign on, it'll get large distribtuion and in all likelihood blow past Ponyo's measly $15M in the opening weekend. They write mainstream.

My impression of Hollywood movies might have been incorrect on this point but I'm looking at whats more likely to secure sequels, and for example the Political Game of Risk that the Shadow Books go into is something I've only ever seen well done in anime.

Like Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

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AchillesHeel
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I think the popular argument here Blayne is that animation of any degree cant attract the empathy of some of our favorite dramatic actors and actresses. We all have such a strong connection to Enders Game and like OSC have a grandiose vision of just what a film adaptation should be and it doesnt seem like animation can emotionally perform at the level we would all like.
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Blayne Bradley
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Didn't Ponyo have a large all star cast? Matt Damon, Liam Neelson etc?
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