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I think in his last moments Hank understood and to a degree forgave Walt.
I must credit Vince Gillian for having the guts to straight up murder the hero of the show. I felt so let down by that firefight the episode before...but he came through, respected us enough to not shovel some BS supercop action movie unrealistic survival down our throats.
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I would never say that Hank forgave Walt anything myself-rather he revised, in his last moments in light of Walt's behavior, his opinion of Walt as an utterly depraved, unrepentant monster.
The shootout was silly, but in my head I registered it as 'this is actually only a second or two, slowed down and shown from multiple angles for the drama'. That's how I rationalized it, anyway.
The phone call was superb. Big ups to Walter Jr., too, for recognizing right-from-wrong immediately. Walt is a victim of his own success as a parent there I think-Walt's son could only scorn Heisenberg.
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Is it safe to say that the M60 Walt bought will be used against the Nazis to get either his money or Jesse back? Or both?
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That's been my theory for a little while now. The preview for next week made it unclear as to who is threatening whom in the voiceover. It could be that Walt's family is under threat either from the DEA or from the Nazis. If it's the Nazis, then Walt needs to kill them both to save his family and to rescue Jesse, but it's also entirely possible that Walt has no idea Jesse is even captive.
He might think they interrogated and killed them like they said they would, though it's clear from the beginning that Todd wanted him to cook, not for info. It's also possible that Saul's voice was referencing Andrea and Brock. But I think that the truth is out now, and Skyler is under constant surveillance from the DEA now that they know who Heisenberg is and that Hank is gone.
I also think that Walt is going to poison the Nazis, and himself. I think the scene we saw where Walt's was bent over on the ground after Hank was killed that perfectly syncs with Gus' look after his partner was killed by the Cartel is telling of what happens next. Gus almost killed himself for revenge to kill everyone involved with killing his partner. Walt went back for the ricin, and will risk killing himself and everyone else for revenge as well, and also for safety.
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I haven't seen the preview. I don't really understand why Todd wants to keep cooking when they just made $80 million, to add to whatever he made while partnering with Walt, which is probably substantial. Do they really need more?
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1. It's not just about making money. It's about pleasing Lydia. Lydia needs higher quality and Jesse is really the only means of doing that. Todd probably told Lydia he managed to do it himself to earn her favor.
2. For some people it's just never enough money.
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Todd wants to be good at it. He's ambitious, has no moral compunctions, and wants to please Lydia, who wants this to keep going. I believe she's gotten a lesser cut throughout, and isn't sitting on as giant a pile of cash as Walt [was].
I'm wondering if they will try to close out the Jesse/Todd/Lydia stories at all, or if we'll be left to believe they continued on. It would be best if they would let Jesse off the hook, eventually. But at this point, no matter what happens, he'll never be at all OK. I didn't quite expect things to turn out so cruelly for Jesse.
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Out of all the characters, I hope Walt's kids, and Jesse make it out alive. Honestly I could care less if the rest of them kick the bucket.
Like many people, I hate Skylar, but lately I've been wondering why. If I were in the same situation as her, who knows what my state of mind would be?
I've never liked Marie's character at all. For her to act high and mighty and moral after her turn at crime (shoplifting, stealing from houses) is despicable. Hank knew his wife was doing this and did everything he could to get her out of trouble, but when it came to Walt there was no forgiveness. I understand what Walt has done is infinitely worse, but Hank didn't even want to hear an explanation.
Jesse has done some horrible things throughout the series, but mostly due to being coerced by Walter. Aaron Paul has done a wonderful job at showing that Jesse is truly a good, yet troubled person that is often taken advantage of due to his weaknesses. I could absolutely see Jesse getting clean, getting married, and winning multiple father of the year awards. I REALLY hope he makes it out of this whole thing alive.
Walt Jr. Can't die because he is needed for every single scene that involves breakfast foods.
Todd / Ginger Matt Damon / kid from Desperate Housewives seems that while he acts like he has no morals, the fact that he convinced his uncle to leave a barrel with Walt makes me think he isn't as much of a monster than the rest of his family.
I'm curious as to how they are going to finish up the series.
And don't forget the recently announced Breaking Bad spin-off, Better Call Saul!!! (I'm serious, this is actually happening)
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Oh come on, Marie had a minor larceny problem that was clearly linked some other psychological issues she was having. They are situations beyond compare.
Todd is an absolutely a monster. A psychotic, Batman-level villain.
The casual way he killed and melted down a child then described the operation as utterly flawless. All the small awful things he did since then, his bizarre relationship with Lydia, his complete lack of moral problems with mass murder, and the fact that he apparently tortured Jesse for information he didn't give a shit about, but only spared Jesse so he could keep him as slave labor while threatening to kill an innocent single mother and her son is absolutely horrific.
I think Todd is maybe the scariest single person the show has ever seen. Every other scary person on the show was completely sane and in control. They knew what they were doing. But Todd's wiring is different than anyone else's. He's crazy.
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It's his casual nature, his calm, boyish demeanor, earnestness, and easy smile juxtaposed with his acts of vicious cruelty that make him so terrifying.
When he pulled Jesse from the pit cage after he'd clearly been brutally tortured and hooked him to the tether, with the picture of Andrea and Brock, but didn't say anything while he suited up to cook with him, I think that was really the most terror-inducing scene of the entire show. He knows that silent threats are far more terrifying than the ones you have to say out loud.
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That particular moment made me sicker than any other in the show's history. I'm sure that's what they were going for, the bastards.
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Walt goes on a killing spree, taking down all the neo-nazis. He eventually discovers Jesse and sees what's going on. After a bunch of debating about what to do, Walt will end up going down swinging (or shooting), but he'll save Jesse in a final act of goodness (although it will hardly make up for all that he's done). He, Todd, and most of the other bad guys will die, but Jesse will live, the lone survivor. Jesse will go back to the girl and her kid and the show will close out with him finally being free and capable of happiness.
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I was surprised that after all of the hero worship shown by Walt Jr. for his father, that he'd take sides so quickly.
His aunt and mother come up with a story he didn't see coming, and then it's his mother who tries to take a knife to his father. I can definitely see him jumping in to break them apart, but lying to the police about it being his father who pulled the knife?
Then again, he did follow Walt around for a minute or two trying to get him to explain his side of the story, and Walt just blew him off.
I, too, have a feeling that Jesse is bound to have a "happy" ending, which I feel is a little cheap. Jesse's hands are in no way clean, and when you come down to it he could have just hopped into that van and nobody would have had the current troubles; Andrea and Brock wouldn't be in danger, Hank and Gomez would be alive, Walt and his family could have just enjoyed his retirement (if estranged from the Schraders.)
WW's story has been interesting because it's been him making one little mistake after another, each one being less morally justifiable then the last. It turned him from a man who dearly loved his family and wanted to provide for them without anyone getting hurt to a man who dearly loved his family and wanted to provide for them, and if people outside the family had to die or be hurt in order to protect his freedom and safety, so be it.
The point where I jumped off the Heisenberg train was during Full Measure, when Jesse says Walt could just go to the police, testify against Fring, and get witness protection. Absolutely the best course of action, but Walt turned it down because he didn't want to...what? Be looked down upon in the community? Look bad in Hank's eyes? Whatever the reason, I couldn't agree with it.
And yet, in these last few episodes, I've started to feel real sympathy for Walt again. He may just be reaping what he's sown, but despite all of the proclamations of the fanbase that Walt was dead and only the soulless killer Heisenberg was left, he's been shown to still be a loving husband and father who cares deeply for his family. (Even his in-laws; I've got a couple of those, and I certainly feel loyalty to them, but I don't love them on the same level as I do my blood family. Which Walt, apparently, does.)
He just wants to talk Jesse down and enjoy retirement, but you have Skyler and Saul telling him he needs to murder again. You have Jesse ultimately forcing his hand.
The episode Ozymandias was a tragedy for everyone in it, and that includes Walter White. I felt really, really bad for him when you see him realize that he's truly lost his family, and all he's left with is a barrel of cash.
What's happening to Jesse is horrific, but he's never been a favorite of mine. He's become an icon of destructive justice; the idea that even if more people are hurt when punishing someone for their crimes, that that's okay, because justice is paramount above all. That's why Walt says and does what he does to Jesse; in his mind, all Jesse had to do was get into the van, and everything would have been okay. But because he felt the need to punish Walt, Walt's family member took a round to the head and got a shallow burial out in the desert. If not for Jesse, Hank was bound into a corner with no way to break out and take Walt down. There's that, and there's also the fact that ultimately Walt is even more responsible, but in that moment he's not open to that; he just sees that if not for Jesse, Hank would be alive and everything would be okay. And so he allows the Aryans to take Jesse away.
The ending that would satisfy me most would be Jesse and Walt both dead, going out doing something that could be considered at least vaguely heroic. I just can't bring myself around to the idea that Jesse "deserves" a happy ending. Marie, Walt Jr, and Holly ride off into the sunset. Whether they take a large amount of cash with them, I could go either way.
One thing I thought about today, was that on a rewatch this show is bound to be even more tragic. Knowing now what path Walt is walking down at the beginning, and knowing the consequences, watching the first and second seasons are going to be full of sad moments where you curse Walt for not quitting when he had the chance.
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I don't think Walt is going to fire the big gun at all. I suspect he's thought of something cleverer.
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I have never liked, Walter Jr and his abrupt turn on WW seemed very out of character. I can get behind him trying to defend his mother but to whip out the phone, call 911, and lying about his father. Just felt forced to me but again, I never liked WJ.
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Jesse's hands aren't clean...but he's also suffered the most.
quote:And yet, in these last few episodes, I've started to feel real sympathy for Walt again. He may just be reaping what he's sown, but despite all of the proclamations of the fanbase that Walt was dead and only the soulless killer Heisenberg was left, he's been shown to still be a loving husband and father who cares deeply for his family. (Even his in-laws; I've got a couple of those, and I certainly feel loyalty to them, but I don't love them on the same level as I do my blood family. Which Walt, apparently, does.)
I had this discussion with my friend while watching it. Our consensus was that Heisenberg died, and all that's left is Walt.
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quote:Originally posted by Heisenberg: The point where I jumped off the Heisenberg train was during Full Measure, when Jesse says Walt could just go to the police, testify against Fring, and get witness protection. Absolutely the best course of action, but Walt turned it down because he didn't want to...what? Be looked down upon in the community? Look bad in Hank's eyes? Whatever the reason, I couldn't agree with it.
It's a pride thing. He has always been like that. If you look at the history, there have been a ton of instances where Walt has let his pride override his logic. It's his biggest character flaw, and the show does a great job of showcasing it. If you look back on it, none of this would have happened if Walt had just taken the offer from his ex girlfriend/busines partner to pay for his cancer treatments. Instead, he told her to @#$% off. He refused help, even though it could have saved him from doing all of this illegal stuff. The further you go in the show, the more Walt's pride gets the better of him. I mean, there are at least half a dozen instances where you could say, "None of this would have happened if Walt would have just ----", and they mostly all involve him taking the deal and letting it go.
Now, I honestly do feel bad for Jesse. Despite his crimes, he has always valued life, especially kids. Except in self defense, I don't think he's ever actually killed anyone. He's tried to protect children whom he had no relations to. He's mourned people, whereas Walt immediately moved on (I mean seriously, look at how Walt broke down when Hank died, but then quickly picked himself up. Compare that to when Jesse mourned that kid on the bike or Jane, which lasted much longer). Jesse was willing to give up all his money, all because he understands the cost of it. What's more, he accepts that he's done these horrible things. Unlike Walt, he can't just move on. I think that's the real difference between them.
Like Jesse said before, Walt is the devil. No matter what happens in these next two episodes, Walt deserves to die. He has to. Jesse will probably live. Walt's family will live (their stories are probably done at this point). Saul will live. There's only one way I see this going, but I honestly hope I'm wrong and the show does something unbelievable and brilliant. If not, that's okay, because this sure has been one hellava ride.
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Last two episodes are 75 minutes. If any of you DVR it to watch later, set your timers accordingly.
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Really? It's terrible, but he's fallen into the clutches of a psychotic, murderous band of neo-Nazi-esque racists. And this outcome was completely in keeping with what has been shown before. Todd made the threat very clear, and he's shown himself willing to kill anyone without remorse and without looking for other options.
I hate seeing it but as storytelling? Through luck, skill, an connections Jesse managed to find himself with no power but enormously valuable skills in an environment that would e hard pressed to be more ruthless.
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I think the only truly psychotic one is Todd. The others are just regular evil.
That was pretty rough to watch.
But I think that was really one of the only parts of that episode worth watching. Most of the penultimate episode fell pretty flat to me. It was a contrived time waster.
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I don't know, they all seem comfortable around Todd and he around them. None of them flinched for a second to threaten an infant, murder a completely innocent woman, torture a man, or help kill dozens.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Most of the penultimate episode fell pretty flat to me. It was a contrived time waster.
It was certainly less gripping than previous episodes have been this season, but I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that it was a contrived time waster. I think that it will be clear in retrospect whether it was necessary to show all of that or not.
I've been thinking about unsatisfying ways the show could end, and the best/worst I've been able to come up with is the whole thing turning out to be a TV show idea that Badger has been enthusiastically relating to a stoned-but-appreciative audience of Jesse and Skinny Pete, with the germ of the story being the news that a local chemistry teacher that Jesse used to have has died of cancer.
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I'm wondering if he's going to try to do something bad to the Gray Matter executives. There's some wiggle room with how he departed the company - he's described what went down, but he could have been hiding something he was ashamed of or protecting Gretchen, and that could be something that could still hurt them (and could relate to his level of outrage when they downplayed his contributions).
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quote:Originally posted by Jake: I've been thinking about unsatisfying ways the show could end, and the best/worst I've been able to come up with is the whole thing turning out to be a TV show idea that Badger has been enthusiastically relating to a stoned-but-appreciative audience of Jesse and Skinny Pete, with the germ of the story being the news that a local chemistry teacher that Jesse used to have has died of cancer.
Ah, yes, the "It Was All A Dream" route. Hallmark of lazy writers who can't think of a good ending.
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: That would be truly awful/awesome.
I'm wondering if he's going to try to do something bad to the Gray Matter executives. There's some wiggle room with how he departed the company - he's described what went down, but he could have been hiding something he was ashamed of or protecting Gretchen, and that could be something that could still hurt them (and could relate to his level of outrage when they downplayed his contributions).
I doubt it. Walt wants to be remembered. But high school teacher and nice guy Walt is as dead as Heisenberg. He needs to be remembered for something else. He can't just go quietly into the night. I don't know exactly what he will do, but he'll do something to make a name for himself. But I don't think it will involve grey matter.
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I think Walt might certainly LIKE to do something to Grey Matter, but I also think he's triaging his efforts a bit now-it simply served as a spur.
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Man, I wish there was another season of this show! They could easily put together a whole other season if they really wanted to, or at LEAST a few more episodes. I mean how are they going to wrap up everything in one episode? I just don't know how it's possible to do while still keeping it enjoyable.
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If there's one thing Breaking Bad has always excelled at, it's doing a lot with a little. They've turned the show in wildly different directions in the space of a couple of minutes, or seconds, at various times.
60 minutes is enough time to finish it up if they don't waste it.
But I think Breaking Bad is probably in the Top 10 Most Anticipated Finales of the last decade. Expectations are through the roof.
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Unlike Dexter, which started out bad in the final season and got steadily worse, this show has remained good throughout the final season. Thus, I wasn't even disappointed by the stinker ending for Dexter, but I could be pretty let down by this show if they do it wrong. I think it'll be good, though.
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I could have taped a xerox of my butt in front of a studio camera, filmed it for 25 minutes solid, and provided that unedited footage to be aired as the finale to dexter, and it would have been a marginal improvement over what got aired
breaking bad stands extremely little chance of being anywhere in the galaxypark of that kind of a letdown
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Solid ending but nothing outstanding.
Yes. That's how I felt. They hit all the spots, they tied up all the loose ends.
It wasn't mind blowing. It was actually incredibly guessable, which isn't a big knock against it, but on a show that prided itself on major twists and turns, it was a yeomans no hum sort of effort.
I don't think we will look back on it as disppointing, but I also don't think we will look back at it as being knocked out of the park. It was just solidly done.
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Gilligan was right when he said Ozymandias was the best episode of the season, if not the series. They could have ended it there, and these last two episodes were more like an epilogue.
But they were still really good.
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Solid ending but nothing outstanding.
Yes. That's how I felt. They hit all the spots, they tied up all the loose ends.
It wasn't mind blowing. It was actually incredibly guessable, which isn't a big knock against it, but on a show that prided itself on major twists and turns, it was a yeomans no hum sort of effort.
I don't think we will look back on it as disppointing, but I also don't think we will look back at it as being knocked out of the park. It was just solidly done.
Incredibly guessable sounds a little off to me. It was true to the series - and even the incredibly effective gadget thing was done relatively fairly (not exceeding the degree to which we've been asked to accept other plans working out over the show's run). But it was still clever. I thought maybe it stretched just a bit too hard to give us the idea that Skyler and Jesse were ready to accept what Walt had done, but at least they didn't go for forgiveness.
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It was incredibly guessable in that everything that happened was pretty much exactly what most of us thought would happen. Every prediction I read included a "ho-hum this is the most obvious thing we think will happen, but we don't think it will happen for that reason," and that's what happened!
So yeah, it was incredibly guessable, but that's only an insult if you want it to be. It's his attention to detail I appreciated. He tied everything up without really leaving loose ends. We may not know specifically what happened to everyone, but we know roughly what direction they were headed in.
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quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: They didn't tie up everything. Is Huel still sitting in that room?
They totally should have had a scene, after a few moments of end credits, just showing Huell still sitting there in silence, staring at the door in anticipation.
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I loved this finale...no there where no major twists, just having Walt admit to Skyler that he did it because he liked it was unexpected enough for me.
I truly feel honored by Gillian for telling a true story, a tale that was true to itself. He respected us and his characters enough to kill them and let them be broken.
He respected the chemistry.
And while I will miss this show, I wouldn't change any of it.
I hear there's going to be a "Better Call Saul" spin off.
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I'm not sure how guessable it really was-it's difficult to tell for me since they layered so much foreshadowing in previous episodes, many episodes ahead in fact. I agreed with Jake,
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