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Author Topic: Revised 13 of Cause and Effect
Josh Anthony
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After perusing the feedback on the 13 for this story (as well as the critiques given by the people who read the whole thing - thanks BTW) I've decided to redo this story from the ground up. I don't have the new version complete yet, but when it's ready I'd like some feedback on it. Comment on the 13 as you will.

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The aircraft appeared out of nowhere six hundred meters above the sea and shot across the night sky. Inside the deltoid vessel's cockpit, two men hastily examined the data fed to them by the vessel's sensors.

"Did we make it?" Ben queried tentatively.

In front of him, Max shrugged and replied, "I'm no geek, but the Eurasian fighters are gone, so something must've happened."

"Maybe we died and this is what happens afterward," Ben grumbled.

"Can it, Doctor!" Max snapped. Before Ben could say anything else, Max added, "Look, I know you're thinking about everyone back at Chronos Command–"

"Probably dead by now," Ben interjected morosely.

[This message has been edited by Josh Anthony (edited August 14, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Josh Anthony (edited August 14, 2007).]


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WouldBe
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I like scenario. I seems clear that there was an escape using an exotic propulsion system.

<preaching>The scene would be more tense, IMHO, if you lose the heavy-handed tags: Ben queried tentatively, Max shrugged and replied, Ben grumbled, Max snapped, Max added, Ben interjected morosely. These add up to about 1/7 of the text and suck oxygen from the action. There is a lot to be said for 'he said,' and skipping tags altogether now and them. </preaching>

<meddling>The space freed up from the preaching could be used to indicate where the aircraft is going; I think that could add to the hook. If needed space could be reallocated from the bit about where the aircraft came from, which seems to slow down the pace a bit. Since this appears to be a two-person aircraft, I'm not sure it would be called a vessel. I'm not sure of that, but it didn't sound right.</meddling>

--WouldBe


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JeffBarton
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There's a scifi element in the aircraft's sudden appearance and the name Chronos Command brings time travel to mind. "Eurasian fighters" refers to a geopolitical milieu we don't know about yet. That adds some hook for me. I gather that these two and their plane are fleeing from the fighters. Along with "dead by now' implies a wartime setting and therefore a conflict. All of which hooks me.

Technical stuff:

'Vessel' doesn't quite fit a 2-person aircraft. Perhaps 'plane's sensors'

"Max snapped" and then "Max added" is repetitious. The second tag could be "he" even though Ben is mentioned.

That brings up the dialog tags with all those euphemisms for 'said.' The point is that just plain 'said' is better because the reader blows right by it as if it's invisible. The reader finds out who said the dialog, but isn't bogged down trying to decipher something extra. Many of those euphemisms are redundant. "Queried" after a question mark, "grumbled" after a complaint, "added" when he adds more and "interjected" after an interruption are all redundant to what we get from the dialog or action itself, yet we have to work to understand that you aren't really adding anything.

Then there are the Tom Swifties - adverbs in dialog tags that are again redundant. "Tentatively" after that particular question and "morosely" after mention of death distract the reader without adding anything that's not already there.


The technical stuff is easy to fix and the story sounds interesting - characters, conflict and scifi. I'll offer to read it when it's ready.


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Brendan
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I agree that the said bookisms are distracting. There is a good article on this site about this, written by OSC. I think it is

http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1998-08-14-1.shtml

The crux of it is, only use something other than said, or an adverb after said, when the information conveyed in the speech is likely to be misunderstood without it. (Personally, I think "replied" is almost invisible, too, but only when used occasionally. If a couple pick it up in a critique, it suggests that it is visible.) The lessons on this website are well worth a read.

I agree with Jeff Barton, above - there are some key words that appeal to people within the science fiction readership (but perhaps not fantasy readers) that provide a hook. You will get both types of readers on this website, so such words wont appeal to everyone, but that does not matter. So keep working on it.

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited August 15, 2007).]


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monstewer
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Being one of those who read the whole first version, I still think that fantastic hook (or some hint of it) should be in here

As it is, if I was looking at it for the first time, I'd guess the main hook would be the mention of Chronos Command but I'd need to know more pretty quickly to keep me interested.


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Josh Anthony
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Say monstewer, just to let you know in advance, I do keep the "awesome hook", but it's just not mentioned in the 13, but a short while afterward (If I say it too early while I'm setting things up it doesn't have nearly the same impact, but that of course is my own opinion ).

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the "said" suggestions. If you want to hear some worthless trivia about my life, the reason I kept using all those adjectives was because my writing teacher was an ardent advocate against using "boring" words such as "said", "walk", etc. But I got the point and will see what I can do.

[This message has been edited by Josh Anthony (edited August 15, 2007).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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"Walk" can be replaced with a stronger, more interesting verb, but "said" shouldn't be. So don't give up on what your teacher told you. Just don't apply it to "said."
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Wolfe_boy
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And, as a side note, use of an adverb in dialogue attribution is punishable by death, or at least having your paper and pencils (or word processor, depending) taken away until after dinner.

Jayson Merryfield


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jhust
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I dig it. You've managed to show characters, their feelings and attitudes, their place in society, something at stake, set a tone, and provided a story question for the reader. Some argue that a stronger hook is needed, but I'd continue reading based on what you already have.
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kings_falcon
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Please please please use "said" or "asked".

I couldn't get through it because "who queries tentatively?"

You are using short cuts to tell us what they feel rather than showing us.

"Did we make it?" already shows me the tension/nervousness. The tag makes this a comic book dialog.

"Said" isn't boring. It's invisible. That's the kind of advice Lit 101 teachers make that hurts you in professional writing. The eye glosses over "said" but the others are roadblocks and call attention to themselves and stop the story. "Walk" is also nearly invisible. Sometimes the common word is the best.


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