posted
Edited to add a thirteenth line but this will not affect any critique already recieved.
I'm not sure whether to begin here. This is how I've always planned it, but recently, I've been undecided whether to start here, or after the first two paragraphs, when the MC is asked what he thinks is wrong with the data entry. It's in bold because that's how it's written in the story. THe MC is a fourteen year old boy. All this, and more, becomes aparent by the end of page one.
Data entry 4
Hey, guess who? Ok, its me, whoever I am. I’m back again, like the smell than won’t go away. Apparently, I have good news. One more day and I get out of quarantine. After two week in this prison… I mean, orientation centre, I hope it’s gonna be a bit more exciting when I get out.
It’s just sooooo boring here. Boring, boring, boring. I want to go home... if I knew where it was.
Bog off… not y… you. It’s APU. It bugs me all the time. I hate that little one-eyed monster. One of these days, I’m going to catch it, rip its lens out and pluck its circuits from within one by one. It’s gonna be sooooo much fun…
Ms Silvers sat across the table from Zeb.
Wanted to add: It's complete at 65,000 words and partially editted ready for submission to publisher/agent. Any readers of first chapter or two would be very apreciated. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 21, 2007).]
posted
The idea of kids in some kind of futuristic 'orientation centre' could be interesting, and I like the threat to catch the one eyed monster and pull it apart.
I suppose the hook is the idea of getting out, and what will happen next. It's a bit passive though. At the moment I'm visualising a character to whom things happen, not one that takes charge, so I'm not as hooked as I'd like to be.
But the main problem for me is that the first 13 do not strike me as authentic. I'm unwilling to suspend disbelief, and here's why.
Presumably the MC is writing an electronic journal - that is what 'data entry' and the bold type means to me. (If they have automatic speech recognition and s/he's dictating, for me it would have to be clear from the start.) Would a 14 year old write this way? Seems to me this is more how one would speak than write. For example, most teens can hardly spell let alone use an ellipsis. And they often spell in shorthand. I doubt that that will change any time soon.
"Data entry 4" -- 'Data entry' sounds too 70s to me. (Although, I suppose, your audience will not remember the 70s.) Why not give it a title that tells us something about the orientation centre - "Orientation Diary Entry July 17 2020" or such.
"Ok, its me, whoever I am." -- They're usually proud of their online identity, even if it's anonymous.
"After two week" --> 'after two weeks' ?
Hopefuly helpfully, Pat
[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited July 21, 2007).]
posted
Pat, regards the title. Yes, it's not exactly original but it is slightly different: Ghosts in the Machine instead of The Ghost in the Machine. I struggled for ages - weeks believe me - for a title that summed up the story. Then it came to me from nowhere: Ghosts in the Machine which fits the story perfectly.
Regardes copywrite, as it is slightly different from The Ghost in the Machine I doubt there would be a problem, even if there was a copywrite issue.
Anyhow, can a title be copywrited?
Edited to add: Thanks for the info Pat. I knew there was some stuff out there regardes The Ghost in the Machine. I always makes me think of I, Robot. There's reference to The Ghost in the Machine when they talk about the robots and random bits of code that give them consciousness or something like that.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 21, 2007).]
posted
I read somewhere recently (perhaps on this board) that when the characters in a scene are bored then the reader is bored as well. I generally agree with that, especially in the first 13 of the novel. Perhaps the character can quickly realize s/he's bored and immediately seize on what interesting thing will happen once out of the stir. Or perhaps the scene can begin with the character being released.
When one is doing a thought monologue, I'm not sure how effective it is to simulate a dialog with Self with repartee. I wish I knew, because I find myself doing this often. I do feel it is a tricky bit not to make it seem affected.
Nevertheless, if the title has been used before, one might wonder what other ideas in the book will also have been used before. My preference would be therefore to find something original - but it's your book and title, of course.
posted
The problem with ideas is, there are very few (if any) that are truly original these days: its what you do with them that counts. To assume a title that is similar to another would make poeple think the ideas in the story are not original too seems wrong to me.
Not saying I wouldn't consider changing the machine bit if I could think of something equally as good, but I definitly want to keep the Ghosts in the...
Edited because I'm an idiot and don't read what I write properly.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 21, 2007).]
posted
The problem with ideas is, there are very few (if any) that are truly original these days: its what you do with them that counts.
>> That's true. Indeed, I have a book of standard plots somewhere.
To assume a title that is similar to another would make poeple think the ideas in the story are not original too seems wrong to me.
>> It may be wrong, unfeeling, but that's how I think, in order to save time. And yes, I'll miss things from time to time as a result. That's a risk I choose to take. If I'm alone in this way of thinking, all well and good. But if others also think as I do, your audience may shrink.
Not saying I wouldn't consider changing the machine bit if I could think of something equally as good, but I definitly want to keep the Ghosts in the...
>> Hmm ... This could be an opportunity to lure us into your world. What does the machine do? Hopefully, it does something dramatic. For example, suppose the machine is a Star Drive ... 'Ghosts in the Star Drive' might be interesting.
>> Of course, if the machine is an AI, "Ghosts in the Artificial Intelligence" is a bit naff. Melissa Scott wrote a story featuring AIs and called it "Dreaming Metal" - what an enticing title. (I think titles are an art all by themselves.)
1:15. Now as I beheld the living creatures, there appeared upon the earth by the living creatures one wheel with four faces.
1:16. And the appearance of the wheels, and the work of them was like the appearance of the sea: and the four had all one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the midst of a wheel.
1:17. When they went, they went by their four parts: and they turned not when they went. When they went, they went by their four parts... That is, indifferently to any of their sides either forward or backward: to the right or to the left.
1:18. The wheels had also a size, and a height, and a dreadful appearance: and the whole body was full of eyes round about all the four.
1:19. And, when the living creatures went, the wheels also went together by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels also were lifted up with them.
1:20. Withersoever the spirit went, thither as the spirit went the wheels also were lifted up withal, and followed it: for the spirit of life was in the wheels.
1:21. When those went these went, and when those stood these stood, and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up together, and followed them: for the spirit of life was in the wheels.
The Ghosts in Ezekiel's Wheel Ezekiel's Ghosts Ezekiel's Wheel
posted
Sounds interesting to me, Darklight, and nice to hear from you. Only nit I had was the use of soooooo two times in close proximity. I would be glad to read for you. And if the title fits, go for it. I'm sure if a publisher has a problem with it, s/he'll let you know.
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posted
I like the "Do Ghosts need Spacesuits?" title, Pat. It reminds me of "do androids dream of electric sheep?".
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posted
There is also a japanamation cartoon series and manga graphic novel called Ghost in the Machine. Stay away from the Space Ghost thing. Brings thought of Hanna Barabera cartoons to mind.
Ghosts of the Wheelworld The Haunted Chamber
It would be hard to fully suggest titles without a bit more information. Is it relevant WHY they are haunting the chamber of a space station? Maybe a kernel of the reason would make a good match with some of the suggestions.
As for the title. They're aren't actually ghosts, when the MC sees them, he thinks they are ghosts. They were once human - I think I explianed all this in my thread about ozone.
I'm thinking of calling it: Ghosts in the Machinery.
Any more comments on the story?
Edited to add: Space Ghost - from coast to coast. That came instantly to mind when I saw some of the suggested titles.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 22, 2007).]
posted
I've sent copies off to those who kindly offered to read - thank you.
A question to those, and anyone else who might offer. Would you suggest I leave the first twelve lines, as posted at the beginning of this thread, where they are, or slot them in a few paragraphs down? Any thoughts are much apreciated.
quote: IB, are you sure you didn't mean Ghost in the Shell?
You're right, Hunter. I was thinking of Ghost in the Shell and Frank Miller's Ronin. There was also a movie called Ghost in the Machine, which I avoided subjecting myself to.
PS - darklight, when you posted:
quote: They're aren't actually ghosts, when the MC sees them, he thinks they are ghosts. They were once human...
...one word came to mind. Remnants.
And, I'll give it a read, if you're not in a rush.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited July 23, 2007).]
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"Ghost in the machine" is a phrase used a lot in informal philosophic discussion, I believe. It actually caught my attention because of that. I don't think it should be a problem. Even when talking about modern humanism the phrase gives me a very visual concept that's much more sci-fi than anything.
If you've decided it's too related to other things to use as a title, there's no reason the phrase can't come up in the book anyway. ^_^ It has a certain swing to it.
[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited July 24, 2007).]
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How about 'Shades in the Wheel' or 'Shades of the Wheel'?
Perhaps 'Face of the Wheel' or 'Image on the Wheel' (the Wheel in Ezekiel has four faces, and this could well refer to the apparitions as well)? Maybe even 'Image in the Spokes'.
Anything but 'Ghosts in the Machine', I'd venture. It would be too confusing and very unoriginal. Also, I, too, don't like the thought of the word 'Ghosts' in the title. It seems too hackneyed. Like 'Ghosts of Mars'.
posted
Thanks for all the title advice. I like ghosts because that's exactly what the MC thinks they are. I don't see how it could come across as confusing when that's the exact description I use. Anyhow, the title isn't an issue for me but thanks for all the suggestions.
posted
I was thinking about this over the washing up. I realised - took a long time didn't it - that Ghosts in the Machine has a double meaning. The MC, in fact, all the kids in the story, have had parts of their memory surpressed. Zeb, 'remembers' things, in dreams, or in visions, that he thinks are of his past though he isn't sure. These memories are like 'ghosts' to him so could also be 'Ghosts in the Machine.'
Ok, so many people will still probably think that its not a good title, but it gives me more reason to want to keep it, or a close variation of it.
Not that I want to get into further discussion about the title. The fact is, its four words, and I'm more interested in getting the other 65,000 the best they can be. But its just a thought...
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