posted
I believe the submissions are read in order of receipt. Since my Q4 submission was in the 11th hour, I do not believe the fact that my story has yet to be rejected can be presumed as evidence that it will not.
posted
Evidently those over on the WotF forum believe that they aren't read in order of receipt.
One person mentioned sending it in at the last moment but yet received their rejection already.
I know I did not send in mine first but my rejection came in the first batch. A total not good surprise. Of course a total rejection even though I thought-hoped the story was bit better than that.
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posted
OTOH, it's commonly thought that the paper submissions are read last. Which is probably the only reason why I'm still in it at this point. DW hasn't gotten to mine yet.
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Don't know if IGMS has any other form rejections, like a few markets have but I've never seen one nor heard-read anyone getting one, so I don't know for sure if they read the whole thing or stopped at the opening but I doubt they did read the whole thing.
So another complete dud even though I would have said otherwise.
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posted
Louis, you sound like you're taking this really hard. Tell you what,I'll make you an offer.
Send it to me. I've slushed for a major pro anthology and I'm now serving as a full time judge for OTP. I'll look at your piece and tell you how I would have received it if I were the coordinating judge.
I don't profess to have all the answers but I will tell you this; since DW has taken over I'm batting a thousand in the honors department. Other than my one finalist I've gotten straight HM's from him. I seem to have a pretty good notion on what impresses the man (watch, I probably just jinxed myself now).
I can be very blunt (just ask axe) or I can just tell you if the opening is good enough to keep my attention or not, it's up to you.
If you want answers, I'll give you some.
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quote:Originally posted by snapper: Louis, you sound like you're taking this really hard. Tell you what,I'll make you an offer......
Send it to me. I've slushed for a major pro anthology and I'm now serving as a full time judge for OTP. I'll look at your piece and tell you how I would have received it if I were the coordinating judge.
Thank you and I will but I just realized something. I had it mixed up in my head, it's my Q3 story that was rejected by IGMS not Q4. Which actually makes me feel worse because I think Q3 is better than Q4. I may know what is wrong with Q4--well, one thing. But it's the Q3 that got a total reject not only from Dave but from--I think-- Stephen at F&SF and now IGMS. A third level rejection from Stephen would not have been so bad but not even that.
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posted
Knowing the odds are so overwhelmingly against submitters, whether for WOTF (thousands of entries for 8 Finalist positions and only 3 winners--i.e. 0.3% or less chance of publication) or for publication in a pro journal, I am now never surprised at receipt of a rejection (even if it feels someone is saying my child is ugly).
I suspect if I ever receive a story contract, my surprise will be akin to seeing the sun at midnight (and it's too much of a schlepp to travel to the Arctic in summer).
My Q3 HM entry, Lirazel's Heart, bounced back from BCS with, for me, the frequent editorial "...it's not quite right for us." Asst. editor Ms Kate Marshall continued kindly with helpful specifics: " Although I enjoyed the descriptions of Lirazel's workings, and Astolfo was an interesting character, the tale didn't quite come together for me. The passages of backstory didn't engage me as strongly as I was looking for; I wished there were greater tension and direction to the tale before the lengthy exposition/storytelling."
Yet a small press specialty printer, Pegana Press , from whom I've purchased beautiful small collectors' items asked to the read the tale and kindly commented: "Rita read Lirazel's Heart out loud the other night and what a truly marvelous story it is. I can't say enough about it! It has left a lasting impression on my heart and mind so thank you for touching us with your story. The glimpses into the world you speak of are very tantalizing, are you going to return there for another tale? I hope so; it seems rich in untold stories and possibilities. I'm reminded of the film Hugo, not so much because of the automaton although that leads to the remembrance, but its pathos and warming of the soul are the same."
Who is correct?
I need surmise that Ms Marshall is correct, from her position and expertise as a pro-level SFWA-approved magazine editor.
Readers, I find, tend to be less critical, at least my readers--except for Matt leo and Nick Tchan. I need more like them, perhaps.
And yet...it is readers I most wish to please (beyond myself). Perhaps writing "good" but not "good enough" is where I need be content (for now).
Louis, you've been one of the most dedicated and persistent writers in churning out stories I've observed in my few years at Hatrack. If your goal is to be traditionally published, and you feel stuck in a rut, I will suggest you consider courses/workshops in fiction-writing to help you up your game. If your goal is to enjoy writing ang get your work seen, why not continue to self-pub, even for free, and get reader feed back directly?
Good Shabbos.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
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quote:Originally posted by LDWriter2: Well, another rejection for my Q4 story.
Don't know if IGMS has any other form rejections, like a few markets have but I've never seen one nor heard-read anyone getting one, so I don't know for sure if they read the whole thing or stopped at the opening but I doubt they did read the whole thing.
So another complete dud even though I would have said otherwise.
Bob said a lot of what I might have. Don't be so hard on yourself. Rejection is the norm in this business. You absolutely should not declare a story a dud after two or three no's. My best acceptance to date, to a pro market, was on that story's 15th submission. Most of the previous submissions on that story resulted in bottom-tier form rejections. I've heard about stories that sold after their 20th or 25th submission. No two editors are going to think alike. So don't give up just because your story wasn't what one particular editor was looking for.
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posted
Thank you Dr. Bob and Jennifer for your comments,
But after six years it's more than just the norm in this business--there is more to that on my post in the "How do you know if your writing is any good?" forum. I've been stuck on the what I hope is the good side of mediocre for years. I have taken workshops and read books and posts like Dave Farland's Daily Kick in the Pants. I have been told I am improving by Dean Wesley Smith and couple around here but I see no other evidence of it. Dean seems to be the only editor who likes my writing. But small improvements hasn't cut it yet.
If I had gotten a HM from Dave for this story I would feel half as bad but as in the case of F&SF "Couldn't grab my interest" and I am assuming the same for IGMS what I think of as my best writing can't get even to the second stage--the editor reading the whole thing.
As to it being a dud, that is why I think that along with the history for my stories. If these editors don't even sort of like it there's nothing to say anyone else will.
Dr. Bob, I've never gotten that type of comment from Ms Marshal at BCS, this one won't either because it's not their type of story and there are very few other markets that send out personal comments on a regular bases.
I will send it out again even though I am not sure where. I can only think of one or two other markets that take Urban Fantasy. Lightspeed might when they open on Jan. if it's not too long for JJA-I need to double check that.
As to putting it up somewhere for reader feedback. I can, I have enough experience with that type of thing to know some readers will like it but for anything critical--I mean that in a good way--I can ask for readers here.
Came back to say it's 200 and some words over for Lightspeed's top word count. But they liked shorter stories. So looks like I will send it to Buzzy Mag next. I forget if they send out a personal notes too.
I certainly can understand why you're disappointed and see why you feel as if your spinning your wheels in the mud. 6 Years is a lot of commitment when you have little to show for it, but you're not unique. Doubt is the greatest enemy to an aspiring writer, just ask Brad Torgenson. He wrote and submitted for a decade and a half without a single acceptance. He attended workshops, went to writer conventions, and rubbed elbows with more writers than I read in my life. It didn't seem to matter one bit. He almost gave up - more than once - but he had a better half that believed in him and gave him enough encouragement to keep trying. it was around his tenth year at trying when he started to get encouraging notes from editors attached to his rejections. They still weren't buying his work but they let him know his work was catching their attention.
His WotF winning story was his first sale, Since then, the flood gates have opened wide for him - runner ups in the Campbell and Hugo awards, multiple sales to high end publishers, collaborative projects with Mike Resnick and Larry Niven. He did it by sheer will and peserverance. As far as Brad is concerned, 6 years is a halfway point.
Chin up, Bud. (Cliche alert) because it is always darkest before dawn.
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I certainly can understand why you're disappointed and see why you feel as if your spinning your wheels in the mud. 6 Years is a lot of commitment when you have little to show for it, but you're not unique. Doubt is the greatest enemy to an aspiring writer, just ask Brad Torgenson. He wrote and submitted for a decade and a half without a single acceptance. He attended workshops, went to writer conventions, and rubbed elbows with more writers than I read in my life. It didn't seem to matter one bit. He almost gave up - more than once - but he had a better half that believed in him and gave him enough encouragement to keep trying. it was around his tenth year at trying when he started to get encouraging notes from editors attached to his rejections. They still weren't buying his work but they let him know his work was catching their attention.
His WotF winning story was his first sale, Since then, the flood gates have opened wide for him - runner ups in the Campbell and Hugo awards, multiple sales to high end publishers, collaborative projects with Mike Resnick and Larry Niven. He did it by sheer will and peserverance. As far as Brad is concerned, 6 years is a halfway point.
Chin up, Bud. (Cliche alert) because it is always darkest before dawn.
Thank you for that.
But it's especially hard when all the evidence points to not even improving. Even the places like BCS which always send out comments it's all more on the negative side than positive and encouraging, even crits from fellow writers are the same.
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By now, you know the world isn't fair, but you also know you must 'soldier on' anyway (cliche alert). Remember, the better your writing gets, the more the critiquers focus upon the story line. As for the mechanical errors, find a good first reader to help you with such items.
I've been writing for almost twenty-five years (and have some professional writing experience). I've been told by Steve Saffel that my writing is 'almost there.' Of course that isn't good enough to get published. Recently Jack McDevitt told me that my writing was at a professional level. That still doesn't get me published.
There is an element of luck in getting published: Sending out the right piece at the right time. If it isn't what the publisher is looking for, it gets the rejection slip. Tales abound of writers sending out the same piece time and again before it gets picked up to become a best-seller. Go figure.
Writing is a lonely activity. There are times when you need contact with other writers to get assurance that what you are doing is noble and worthwhile. So, remember the first rule of writing... Write!
Keep sending your stories out. Send them to me. I'll critique them as honestly as I can. Maybe that'll help.
mbwood
p.s. I got rejected for 2013 Q4, too.
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posted
I believe I remember hearing that Louis had some things published a while back, so the frustrating thing may be that he can't seem to get published any more.
It's one thing to still have the publishing goal ahead of you, but it's another to have hit the goal and then not be able to hit it again.
If I am remembering correctly, then, Louis, please remember that things are always changing. Your past sales were not flukes. They were the right stories at the right times to the right editors. And that kind of thing can happen again, if you don't quit.
Just as other things change, be sure that you are changing as well. Let people here help you figure out how to best expend your efforts toward the right kinds of change.
I hope that helps.
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But it's been over six years since my one sale. Plus one non-paid HM posted on the ontheprimies.com fairly recently.
Since the sale, there's been very little that show's anything. During the time I wrote that one story I did better--three of those stories would become WotF HMs---but as I said since very little. I wonder if while trying to improve I tried too hard to do what I thought editors wanted and lost my voice but I don't know and neither do I know if there is anyway to check if that is true.
If it is a case of right stories at the right time, I have been very unlucky for those years always sending in the wrong story. But I would think there would be some sign that my writing was up to par even so.
Only comment I have received, not counting from markets like BCS, was one by either Stephen of Scott P. over at F&SF. That comment did not encourage. At first I thought it was his first thought about my opening. It must have struck hard enough-not in a good way-to want to say something about it. But I later wonder if that was his way of trying to tell me what was wrong with the opening. Still not for a positive reason.
I've been told be a couple of people I am improving...even in one online workshop Dean Wesley Smith aid I was, he has read quite a few of my stories but he seems to be the only editor who thinks anything good about my writing.
I am repeating some of this but now I find the story I think of as my best is so full of obvious defects that the writing probably wouldn't even be considered good.
Some of what I am feeling was expressed in my post Here You will have scroll to find my post toward the end.
Be nice if Ms Williams over at Asimov's would think my latest story there was better. She in one of the few editors that have read enough of my stories to know. If she got past my openings which is debatable. The person over at IGMS has read a few and maybe at BCS too. At least she read the whole story even though she doesn't have much positive to say either. Can't think of her name off hand. She even rejected what I think of one of my small group of second best writings. I forget what she said about it.
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posted
What I think you need consider, Louis, is that your circumstance is the norm and not aberrant.
Rejection is the natural state for writers. Selling a story is what is uncommon.
And only a few among those who persevere may, with time and experience, discover a particular market that adopts them (e.g. Brad T and Analog).
Writing is not an endeavor for the weak of will. Write because you enjoy it. Self-pub what doesn't sell traditionally if you desire this affirmation, Then write some more. Enjoy the challenge. Have fun.
Happy Thanksgivvkah!
Respectfully, Dr. Bob (who, despite some wonderful comments, has not sold a single thing since my first two flash pieces in 2010)
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Self-pub is what my writing is good for right now.
Oh and back with the sale. It wasn't just one. Two stories had good enough writing to sale. The second was rejected for other reasons. And one story was close and as I said three WotF HMs came out of those.One being my first HM. My writing still needed help but the HMs showed I was improving and headed in the right direction. Now I can't even get off the ground. I may still be headed in the right direction but so slow I could get out and walk faster.
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Except I have been at the a while, I'm not a beginner.
But I am calming down, doesn't do my emotions any good to be hit by two hard hits. One was the original compliant about the story not even doing a little good and the second was what Frank said about the writing I knew it was bad but Triple yikes, wow talk about major issues. And evidently a second story he looked at was as bad even though it didn't have two of the problems the first story did.
I'm working on my Q1 story with that in mind. I'm trying to get it done by the 9th because I may have someone to go over it to hopefully check for grammar and typos and wrong words.
Frank might go over it for other things. But I'm not sure I have time to fix everything he finds if he does look it over.
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quote:Originally posted by JenniferHicks: FYI, a smattering of HMs seem to be going out.
Ah, yes. Got mine this evening. I seem to be collecting them. I'm not surprised for this particular entry, which was a PG version of The Witch's Curse [ http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=004560#000000 ]. Oddly, this comes as a relief since I prefer the R-rated version of the story. Not sure where to send this odd duck next, though.
My best wishes to all those still waiting.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
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I got a straight rejection. The past three quarters for me go: rejection, finalist, rejection. Ha! I can't help but laugh at this crazy contest.
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quote:Originally posted by snapper: It took years but I have finally run the cycle.
Semi-finalist.
Congrats! And welcome to the club. There can't be too many of us who have done everything but win. I know you had hopes for this quarter's story. You'll get 'em next time.
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posted
I received my critique for my Q4 semi-finalist from Dave Wolverton today. He had some very nice words for it, saying he liked it a lot and stressed that it was very close to being a finalist. He did give me his reasons why it wasn't chosen and offered some unique insights to what does make a finalist. Allow me to share it with the rest of you.
quote:I look for two things in a story: 1) a great concept, 2) beautiful execution. For me, while this was thoroughly professional, I kept looking at the use of metaphor and similes, at poetic elements, and wishing that it were just a little better. We had some real wordsmiths this quarter, and ultimately as I narrowed the finalists down, I set this one aside.
posted
You can be, if you like, LD. I would like to point out that almost doesn't count. Still on the outside looking in.
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