posted
Personally, of the TNG films, Generations is probably still my favorite.
I'd love to see a DS9 film, but the whole crew is so widely dispersed now, what would they do? I just don't see a plot really making sense. I suppose it would have to center around Sisko coming back from the Celestial Temple. But then Miles is on Earth, Odo is on the Delta Quadrant, Worf is in the Klingon Empire somewhere hunting targs with Martok. Not that it's ever been a problem getting him back to the Enterprise for one of their movies. My god, the WEAK excuses they have for throwing him back on to the Enterprise boggle the mind.
Much as I love TNG films, they either need new writers for something insanely, dramatically awesome, or they need to lay it to rest, and try something new. Voyager movies would be interesting, but what would they center around? It'd almost HAVE to be the Borg. It'd be neat to see the new bitchin Voyager with all the shiny armor and transphasic torps blowing the crap out of everything.
Part of why I think the end of Voy messed up all future shows is that the technological edge that the Federation has now, due to Janeway's time traveling shenanigans, is so great that no one in the Alpha Quadrant can even touch them without getting blown to smithereens.
Personally, I think the only idea for a Voy movie would have to involve time travel, sadly. Where they heck are all those guys from Starfleet's Temporal division trying to catch future Janeway? They're ALWAYS after her, why not this time? Especially considering it's her biggest incursion yet.
Section 31 is interesting. They aren't part of Starfleet Intelligence, but they are an official part of the Federation, as described in the Starfleet Charter, and as more or less confirmed by the President to Sisko. Still, I don't see how you could make a multi-season series out of it. Unless it became Alias in space, which I would never watch.
I don't think the series needs to be rested for a decade until it can be unearthed, ready for a comeback. They just need a good idea, good characters and a good writing team to do it. Something I don't really think they've had since DS9. Voy had its moments, I'll grant it that, but the majority of the real in your face moral ambiguity was centered around the doctor, while everyone else just kind of hung around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for Neelix to screw up the chili or for some crazy new alien to capture the ship for the umpteenth time so they could courageosly rescue it.
Were I the actual ship Voyager, I would've beamed them all down to the surface of a planet and gotten home by myself a lot faster.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I don't think it would be too hard to find an excuse to get the DS9 crew back together - as you say, Sisko coming back from the Temple will probably be occasion enough for the old crew to get back together.
Also I don't think the technological edge the Federation has is what's preventing the scriptwriters from doing something farther in the future - they could easily have the Romulans stealing their secrets, the Borg eventually adapting etc.
I loved Voyager, but every man to his own:)
What about a wormhole to the Delta Quatrant?
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I would love to see the Wesley as a “Traveler” them get explored in movies. He is a main enough character that we know him, but ensign enough (and young enough) that the writer could explore/develop a darker side in him. He could be faced with moral ambiguity. I could imagine a dozen cool stories revolving around his character.
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quote:At the moment, we're not particularly interested in the future being idyllic (and even Enterprise was annoyingly idyllic)- we want to see people live in the moral grey area.
That's why DS9 is the right show to bring back.
The DS9 stories involving Starfleet officers making tough moral choices while fighting a relentless enemy are sorely needed.
[ April 23, 2006, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Last I checked, Wil Wheaton was working at an IHOP in Florida or something...
-pH
That's genius! They should do a "Where are They Now?" series, where we see Wesley Crusher working in a 24-hour diner on Zorgon-4-Alpha, Jake Sisko and Nog have fallen madly in love, dropped out of Starfleet, and have started a theater company, 7 of 9 is a vending machine repair technician, and Miles O'Brian fulfilled his life-long dream of being a matador in Mexico City, where he is a minor celebrity and is courting the President's daughter, who is really a Romulan spy.
posted
I'd much rather see 7 of 9 as a sex therapist.
"But she's never in the mood when I am!" "That's because you never put in any effort." "Silence! Clearly you are both malfunctioning. If she's not in the mood then you will put her in the mood, resistance is futile." "Well that doesn't sound very enlightened." "Enlightenment isn't always perfect, you will comply."
Heh, the Doctor could be her assistant.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: Shatner and Nimoy could play Kirk and Spock in the new movie if there is some sort of time travel plot twist.
What? In Star Trek? Neh, it would never happen.
In general, other than The King and I, movies that end in a Roman numeral tend to leave me cold.
You'd have to find a reason for McCoy to not be around though. DeForest Kelley died several years ago, but thanks to TNG we've established that McCoy lives to be 138 (I think). It would also have to be before the events in Generations which establish that Kirk ends up in the Nexus for a while without Spock.
I think if they're going to do it, it'll have to be straight prequel kind of thing.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Last I checked, Wil Wheaton was working at an IHOP in Florida or something...
-pH
Nope, playing Celebrity Poker (or maybe it's World Series of Poker, I forget which one). But he's lost the cute factor that made Wesley so appealing (at least imho). They'd pretty much have to recast the character.
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But definitely not in the can-heckle-Gene-Roddenberry-at-cons-and-get-away-with-it way, not anymore.
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Most of the characters are unique to the series, though there are a few (Elisabeth Shelby, Robin Lefler, Dr. Selar) who were on TNG for only an episode or two. The people are interesting and complex, the writing is a little offbeat and witty, and the captain of the ship is extremely clever. It's fun watching him outwit his enemies. I highly recommend the series.
I checked the first book out from the library yesterday. I'll let you know what I thought of it, if you're interested, when I've had a chance to read it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership? It was the bloodiest Start Trek. Picard actually shot someone in the head and his head exploded.
The episode ended with the aliens sending a signal back to there mothership/homeplanet.
I would love to see a movie that picks up where that left off. Maybe the Federation could become a dictatorship. The writers cold make it relevant to todays political environment where some feel our rights are being slowly stripped away. Just a thought.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Wait so Felicity chases Kirk to the academy, but ends up falling for Spock/Scott Foley (who spends the whole movie doing that quizzical expression which is the only acting move he has) and then it turns out that there's a polar bear stalking cadets who venture into the basements and sewers of the residence halls so Felicity (who is pregnant, by the way) has to dress up as a Bajoran hooker in order to convince a munitions instructor named Saywer to take out both Janeway and Beverly Crusher so that Picard can then go back in time and romance her mother so that between the two of them Janeway has enough mitichlorians in her DNA that when she falls in love with Data her feelings are so intense that it triggers the immaculate conception of Wesley?
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And, of course, Wesley then takes out the polar bear and discovers that he has such a blood lust for killing big game animals that the only way to sate it is to create a violent cartoon featuring a rogue CIA agent stranded in a jungle filled with big game that he then sells to a hot New York internet agency -- a game that is then used to train a Kardassian assassin who kills Spock which then leads Kirk to discover his true feelings for the Vulcan but since his love must remain unrequited, so he, Wesley and Felicity form a domestic partnership so that they can take care of the baby and support themselves by writing Harry Potter and Buffy fan fiction.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by lem: Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership? It was the bloodiest Start Trek. Picard actually shot someone in the head and his head exploded.
The episode ended with the aliens sending a signal back to there mothership/homeplanet.
I would love to see a movie that picks up where that left off. Maybe the Federation could become a dictatorship. The writers cold make it relevant to todays political environment where some feel our rights are being slowly stripped away. Just a thought.
Were they the same critters that Khan used in the movie?
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I remember being really grossed out by the way that guy's chest cavity opened up and the parasite "queen" reared up out of the gaping hole. It had pretty much eaten all of the guy's internal organs, it looked like.
This was after his head exploded.
Of course, I was 12 or 13 at the time.
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posted
I think one of the biggest mistakes made in the TNG movies was changing Picard from the diplomat that he was (making him very different than Kirk) and making him be Action!Picard in the movies.
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I remember being really grossed out by the way that guy's chest cavity opened up and the parasite "queen" reared up out of the gaping hole. It had pretty much eaten all of the guy's internal organs, it looked like.
This was after his head exploded.
Of course, I was 12 or 13 at the time.
I think I saw that one on its original airing. I would have been about 7 or 8. I'm pretty sure that was a first season episode, but it could have been the second. It freaked me out.
Of course, I watched the episode later and it sucked, but most of those first two seasons were terrible.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote: perhaps the Federation is gearing up for an assault on Borg Space, or a new Borg invasion has to be dealt with.[/QB]
OMG this has to happen!!! The Borg have to be beaten. Finally and completley. I dont care who does it. Janeway, Sisko or Picard....Maybe all of them could.... In the same movie!!!...But if I dont see all those trans-warp hub things(like the one that got Voyager home) destroyed eventually ill be like, sooopissed off...
Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:My opinion has long been that they next Star Trek show needs to be radically different from previous ones. The show is ALWAYS based on the COMMAND crew of some sort of space venture, be it either a space station or a space ship.
I think there is some real potential to do an interesting series of movie based on Vulcan, Klingon, or perhap Kardasia (sp).
Enterprise did some very interesting things with Vulcan and the evolution of Vulcan society. Why not do a show that takes place on Vulcan, perhaps centered around a earth embassy in a time period that spans the Enterprise era, perhaps shortly before or after.
Or maybe a show that features a federation embassy on Kardasia which follows the DS9 era. There's lots of potential here with perhaps a Federation martial plan to rebuild a peaceful Kardasia following the dominion war, plus you have a worm hole nearby, Bejor (sp?), all kinds of prejudice. There's even very reasonable potential to bring in an occasional DS9 character. Perhaps it could start movie that brings Sisko back from the prophets.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I don't know about the Vulcans. Having one of them in a show increases the snore-factor. As much as I love Spock, those pointy-ears are BORING.
They need a show with only hottie borg women. 7 of 9 can lead a crew of renegade borgs who run a galactic bikini shipwash in an effort to make money so they can run more commando missions to free more borgs.
It's a mix of USA Up All Night and the A-Team!
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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That's an interesting idea, and fits into the kind of radical differentness that I think the next show needs. But I think that any show should be set at the very earliest in Kirk's generation, not before. The question is, what do you want the focus of the show to be? Star Trek TNG never really had a huge overarching plot. Sure it had it's Borg ecounters, whoopie, but basically it was just episode to episode.
DS9 had a huge, multi-season plot arc that took us from basically the beginning to the end of the show. And Voy had multi season plot arcs too.
Shows based on foreign planets in embassies would have to have a set plot arc I think, but what would the enemy be on Cardassia or Bajor? Or any planet for that matter. The enemies of the Federation are defeated. You'd have to go back to a previous generation when there was still conflict, and it'd have to put the target planet smack dab in the middle of it.
posted
Abrams has chimed in to clarify: While he -is- interested in doing a "Stark Trek" movie (and has the option to direct), the plot blurb reported for the project is inaccurate. The actual synopsis of the film is being kept secret. The "Starfleet Academy" thing is just a rumor, though he does admit TOS period is his favorite.
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quote:Shows based on foreign planets in embassies would have to have a set plot arc I think, but what would the enemy be on Cardassia or Bajor? Or any planet for that matter. The enemies of the Federation are defeated. You'd have to go back to a previous generation when there was still conflict, and it'd have to put the target planet smack dab in the middle of it.
Oh, I don't know--as we're seeing in Iraq, occupying a conquored territory isn't always terribly easy. I could see a show revolving around, say, a particular peace keeping squad on an occupied Cardassia being pretty interesting, and it would be a handy vehicle for the kind of relevant social commentary Star Trek has often attempted to provide.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Teshi: Firefly, Battleship Galactica and Lost are all bitter universes where ideology is a bit lost and most of the characters have dark pasts and futures. Star Trek, is, almost by defintion, an ideal universe were the main characters pretty much always have the moral highgroud. Someone said they would be more interested in a show about the grunts and I think this is a symptom of this. At the moment, we're not particularly interested in the future being idyllic (and even Enterprise was annoyingly idyllic)- we want to see people live in the moral grey area.
We do?
Huh. I guess the producers of the Narnia movie must have lost their shirts... but then that takes place in the past, not the future. I guess that also accounts for the Star Wars prequels raking in the dough; they take place "a long time ago," after all. Can't quite figure out how Firefly tanked, though...
(Sorry, rabid cult followings do not a mass market success make.)
Seriously, I'm not saying that movies with nuanced shades of grey can't be good things, or even profitable, but I don't believe that they're the only formula that can work in today's market.
(Indeed, if Superman isn't still the World's Biggest Boy Scout in the upcoming film, but is instead given shades of grey and moments of angst, something will have gone horribly wrong. What makes Superman work is entirely different than what makes Batman work or Spiderman work. What makes one work makes the others fall apart. How this might apply to Star Trek and other science fiction films is left as an exercise for the reader.)
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I like what Teshi said. It's more interesting to see movies where there are some moral grey areas that the characters have to deal with. If their going to bring ST back, I think they should do some sort of situation where the Federation has collapsed, or at least a ST universe where it's become corrupt. At least that way, your good-guys are a little more diverse and the situations they're dealing with are a little more ambiguous.
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Not the First Contact kind, I'm talkin' LOTR style sweeping camera moves over MASSIVE software driven sequences with lots of gibber and lasers.
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Stephan: George Lucas killed Star Trek singlehandedly by introducing the idea of prequels.
Well to be fair, Lucas killed the idea that you can only make the amount of money which is conespondent with the number of ideas you can come up with. The new rule is: over-explain, dumb down, and pretty much step all over your original premise in order to shoehorn in a prequel which "sets the foundation." When in reality the only thing it does is ride the coattails if past successes. This is also the logic behind that rumor a while back which had it that Lucas was going to do a star wars O episode about yoda.... Blech. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Superman has several moments of angst in the Donner Superman film. Most notably after the deaths of Pa Kent and Lois Lane.
Superman II has still more angst, with the notion that Superman cannot love like an Earthling unless he becomes an Earthling. (Which actually makes sense, even if the "Kiss of Amnesia" power doesn't.)
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: This is also the logic behind that rumor a while back which had it that Lucas was going to do a star wars O episode about yoda
Speaking as someone who found the last movie hilariously awful... if they dispensed with the CGI and brought back the Yoda muppet, I would actually pay money to see that.
Rocks, the little green dude does. Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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"Either you move away from the Federation entirely, be brave, and do a show based NOT on Starfleet (which is risky), or you do something in Starfleet from the level of the enlistee, the guy who didn't get into the Academy."
I already consider "Firefly," and especially "Serenity" to be an Anti-Federation Star Trek with Han Solo and crew as the main characters. A show with the Federation as bad guys or imperfect in the Trek Universe might tick off a few Rodenberry devotees. Look how quickly the cool Ma'Kee<sic> surrendered and assimilated on Voyager.
I think a Star Trek right before or after the fall of the Federation would be cool. Perhaps that would be too dark. Yet, it would definantly be different from all the rest as hundreds of civilizations compete for dominance. Perhaps Earth and Volcan seek to remain an alliance against the outside forces seeking for power and conquest. The Klingon Empire would be split between those who want to continue with alliances and those who want to go back to the old warrior ways. Romulans, of course, would be seeking to control more space - kept back by the continued alliance of Earth and Volcan mixed with the defensiveness of the Klingon Empire who is deciding if they should seek the same path of conquest. Lesser planets and civilizations would be either caught in the middle or taking sides.
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Superman has several moments of angst in the Donner Superman film. Most notably after the deaths of Pa Kent and Lois Lane.
Superman II has still more angst, with the notion that Superman cannot love like an Earthling unless he becomes an Earthling. (Which actually makes sense, even if the "Kiss of Amnesia" power doesn't.)
Okay, granted, my choice of words was too sweeping. Still, Superman at his most angstful in the first two films is still in better shape than either Batman or Spiderman on one of their best days. And theirs lingers, while his never really gets to him. (Heck, his love interest dies in the first one, and two minutes later he's made things all better.)
(I suppose I'm still reeling from the version proposed about a decade ago, focusing on the pain of being the last survivor of one's world on an alien planet, that being what drove Supes to try to be better and gain acceptance, or something like that.)
That said, okay, I may have overstated the case.
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Well that's the thing with the Maquis/Federation relationship. They don't necessarily consider the Federation as their enemy, and they know the Federation isn't bad or evil, they just want to be left alone. Their main enemy is the Cardassians.
It's an interesting view to call Firefly the Anti-Federation Star Trek with Han Solo and such. Maybe no so much interesting as obvious.
Combining the niche popularity of Firefly with the broad appeal of Star Trek to the masses would have to be carefully done. If you change things too dramatically, you anger the Roddenberry faithful of old, but if you don't change it enough, you get more of the same ole that killed Enterprise.
I think the end of the Federation, or a post-Dominion occupation of Cardassia is too far out there, and wouldn't be enjoyable in the same way that the long time Star Trek fans have enjoyed it. But I could be wrong, while it might anger the old fans, it might also bring in new fans, which the franchise could certainly use. It's open season at the moment, the people who make Star Trek just need to keep coming up with new ideas until something reasonable sticks.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I don't see why the Federation has to end. I think it would be much more interesting if it was still around. In DS9, there were already so many hints that the Federation had got a little too big for it's boots and that there was some corruption (or at least the distinct possibility of it) creeping in. There was the dilemma about how to save earth-as-paradise from the threat of invasion and terrorism without destroying it at the same time.
I think the best way to keep the idealism of the old shows, while also making it darker, would be for a crew to discover that there was something really wrong with the high-ups. And then they have to sort it out, despite the fact that everyone can't believe that such a thing could be possible. So they steal their ship and become outcasts, freedom fighters, or something. Only, they're not fighting against an evil empire, or even an enemy, but are in opposition to the very thing that they want to preserve. There could be a lot of moral dilemmas involved in that whole process.
It wouldn't be a story of innocence lost, so much as innocence temporarily mislaid and eventually, probably with much loss, regained.
And NO reset button. And only one time travel/the-holodeck's-gone-pear-shaped episode allowed per season. And they would need better uniforms. Spandex jump-suits have had their day.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
That's not a bad idea. It's basically what the Maquis are doing, only on a much more massive scale. It's already been done a few times in shorter episode arcs in the other shows, but instead of ending it quickly, it'd be interesting to see it taken over a seven season story arc, even though it basically descends into Civil War. However, I'm wondering how plausible it is.
You'll never get that many Federation ships to fire on each other, and even if they all found out there was corruption at the highest levels, they'd quickly rebel against it. They don't follow immoral orders on the whole, they disobey orders. Especially Picard.
Unless you're talking way, way in the future when the Federation has changed, but if you mean just after the Dominion War, I don't see it happening. The Klingons are reeling from a war, the Romulans are already plotting to gobble up Cardassian territory they don't want to give back, and the Federation is dealing with billions of deaths and the loss of hundreds of ships. The Fed citizens are sick of war, and have shown little tolerance for corruption.
Which is why I think the story works better with the Maquis, who have totally lost their feeling as citizens of the Federation, and have changed their morality in the face of war, and their tactics. The Federation still isn't evil to them, but so long as it stands in their way, it stands as an enemy.
Still, the more I think about it Bella, the idea of a fight to save the very core of the Federation sounds like an incredibly fantastic idea that I could fall in love with were it actually made into a show. I just wonder how the mechanics of it would work, and how plausible they could make it sound.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership?
As I recall, the original idea was that Star Fleet was going to stage a military coup of the Federation. Gene Roddenberry was so horrified by the idea that they changed it to brain slugs.
Still, an enemy is an enemy.
I'd like to see more of the Orion Syndicate myself (as long as we can ignore the fanservice episode "Bound")... something like "Star Trek: Orion Vice".
Posts: 196 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
And yet the idea was revamped in DS9 in I think the episode "Paradise Lost" where Starfleet did in fact try to overthrow the Federation government, but it was thwarted by Odo, Sisko and the Defiant.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Well, saying "Rick Berman was no Gene Roddenberry" is sort of like saying "the Pope is Catholic". The whole franchise took a nose-dive after Gene died, IMO.
Of course, Gene would never have approved of "Star Trek: Orion Vice"... but that's probably where he was a better man than I.
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But he's lost the cute factor that made Wesley so appealing (at least imho). They'd pretty much have to recast the character.
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