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I don't know if it is because Tom Cruise has a new film coming out, but Scientology seems to have been in the pop media quite a bit lately.
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Not quite as much as Catholicism, but more than Jainism. I'd say Judaism still has it by a nose coming into the End Times, though.
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Jenna Elfman is a Scientologist. I will never forgive her for being in Dharma and Greg and for this stupid remark she made one time >.<
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It is in the news right now because Tom Cruise blasted Brooke Shields for taking anti-depressants. He said she could cure her debilitating post partum depression with herbs.
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I just came from Hollywood this weekend. Hadn't been to it in years! I noticed three separate and very large churches of Scientology. Guess it's real big down there. After that, we all were on a church spotting mission to see how many churches of all faiths we could see.
We left Hollywood for San Diego (took the kids to Sea World) and saw an awesome church of LDS off the I-5 that looked like a freaking fortress! It was pretty cool.
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Funny he mentioned herbs given part of scientology's tenets is that one doesn't need any medicine whatsoever, because mental issues aren't caused by hormones, but alien spirits.
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quote:Originally posted by Exploding Monkey: I just came from Hollywood this weekend. Hadn't been to it in years! I noticed three separate and very large churches of Scientology. Guess it's real big down there. After that, we all were on a church spotting mission to see how many churches of all faiths we could see.
We left Hollywood for San Diego (took the kids to Sea World) and saw an awesome church of LDS off the I-5 that looked like a freaking fortress! It was pretty cool.
You should see their [Scientology] movie studio out near San Jacinto/Hemet. It is called Golden Era Productions and looks like a paramilitary base!
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My wife and I don’t practice religion, but her honey (John Travolta) is an avid Scientologist I belive, so it comes up from time to time when she brings him up. I was really blown away how much a part of Hollywood it has become. It’s been 20+ years since I took the drive down there. Hollywood looks much the same as it always has aside from it’s new found religion.
Scott R,
Yep, that's the one! That photo doesn't do it justice though. I really like the architecture in that building. Reminds me of an old castle mixed with a little bit of sci-fi. I told everyone in the car as we drove by, “Take cover! The archers are preparing to fire on us!” LOL
I didn’t know Mormons call their churches “temples.” Interesting. Are you sure that’s a Mormon temple and not a Jedi one? Heh, heh, heh. As we picked out churches over the course of the weekend my wife’s aunt asked me how I knew they were LDS churches and I said, “Because of the bugle boy on the top.” What does that statue symbolize anyway? I noticed it on a temple in Portland, Oregon as well.
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quote:Are you sure that’s a Mormon temple and not a Jedi one?
Quite. Mormons are encouraged to marry, Jedi are not.
Here's some more official stuff from the Mormon church on temples .
quote:What does that statue symbolize anyway? I noticed it on a temple in Portland, Oregon as well.
The statue is of Moroni, the angel that instructed Joseph Smith where to find the golden plates. He is represented as blowing a trumpet to usher in the final dispensation of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the earth.
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It's what's on the inside that counts *(and I'm not talking about the candle sticks either).
I've been inside churches that were just buildings and an empty church building is a pretty sad place.
I've been inside garages where a church was meeting and felt the spirit there (right next to the air compressor even!)
Growing up Catholic, I got over the ediface complex rather early. I like visiting churches as an exercise in architecture and art-appreciation. But I could care less about it from a religion perspective.
I'm sure there's a good philosophical argument for large and ornate churches. At the very least, a church needs to be big enough to hold the people. But beyond that? who cares?
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There are certain religious requirements for a Mormon temple's construction. (Three levels above ground, one beneath the ground, for example. I think.)
Beyond that-- I enjoy, in a spiritual sense, the beauty of our temples. It reminds me, in a physical, tangible way, of what I'm striving for. The temple is a symbol of my hopes, and a reminder of my commitments to God.
It is more important, I think, that the attitude Bob addresses be carried within our regular meetinghouses. But I sacrifice time and funds to help make a physical representation of God's love for humanity apparent in the construction of more temples.
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Are Mormon temples physically beautiful? Some of them look slightly cathedralish, but none of them have really sent my spirit soaring; I've seen a few that look like concrete fortresses. Are they prettier on the inside?
Of course, I'm biased; I'm a former Baha'i, and Baha'is do really, really pretty temples (not cathedrals.)
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: And. . . um. . . I don't like the architecture at all. When I first saw it, I thought, "Wow. Space Castle."
And that's exactly why I liked it! To me, most churches have too many shared architectural themes with other churches to make them really stand out. Sure, some of them can be quite beautiful, but they still suffer from 'sameness.'
The San Diego temple is situated in such a way that it dominates the skyline where it sits. You can't help but notice it as you travel the interstate, and it's the bold and unusual architecture that catches the eye and leaves an impression. If it had been any other church from any other religion, it may have been beautiful, but it probably would not have left a lasting impression. Not on me anyway.
Okay Scott, a few questions if you don’t mind:
1. Why are some temples and some churches? 2. Is there a central theme to Mormon design other than the three levels up, one level down philosophy? I noticed the Portland temple/church had very similar look and was painted white as well.
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I agree I checked out the temples at LDS.org, and also the Houses of Worship at Baha'i.org. Some very nice structures in both. There is a nice variety to the designs in both faith's buildings. I have never seen a Baha'i House of Worship in person though. I have been to a couple of the LDS temples however. Feeling the spirit that is there would make the temple beautiful to me no mater how fancy it looks. In deed some are simple in their beauty.
I'd imagine it may be similar for people of other faiths. They see beauty in their buildings partly because they are beautiful and partly because of what they represent.
As far as Scientology goes, is it the same as Christian Science? or is there any relationship? Yes I haven't got a clue.
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quote:Originally posted by adam613: (it isn't even a religion)
I have to disagree.
"Religion" is simply the act of repeating the customs and rituals of one's faith. No deity need be a part of that faith to make it any more or less valid than any other faith.
My wife and I have come to believe that the various faiths are nothing more than different conduits for holding a relationship with the divine. Each can be easily disproved by those that do not share that faith's values as being man-made rather than the one true religion of God. At the same time, those that share in a certain faith's values see it as the ONLY way of communing with our creator.
What it boils down to IMHO is this: We all communicate with God in our own way. I often imagine the divine as looking upon us and kind of chuckling at how hard we try to impress him with all of our various faiths and attempts to get close to him. He's not mocking us when he laughs, but rather laughing at us the way a parent laughs when their child trys to do something to impress. The parent can’t help but be amused by the act, but it also ends up being endearing to their heart.
That’s just our take on things.
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Christian Science and Scientology are different religions, started by different people, which happen to have similar names.
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quote:There are certain religious requirements for a Mormon temple's construction. (Three levels above ground, one beneath the ground, for example. I think.)
This is incorrect. Take, for example, the Hong Kong temple, which is several stories of a larger building.
I don't think there are any architectural requirements beyond using high-quality materials and craftsmanship.
quote:1. Why are some temples and some churches? 2. Is there a central theme to Mormon design other than the three levels up, one level down philosophy? I noticed the Portland temple/church had very similar look and was painted white as well.
1) Check out the link to Boyd K. Packer.
Temples are for certain special ordinances (eternal marriage, for example); churches are for weekly meetings.
2) Most temples are made of white stone, and have the angel Moroni capping one of the spires. Some temples reflect the architecture of the culture where they are built; the Seoul temple does this a bit, as do some of the temples in the south Pacific.
There may be some markings on each of the temple that are consistent-- stars, moons, suns, things of that nature. I think that the earlier the temple was built, and the closer to Utah it is, the more you'll see this type of decoration.
Each has written above the entrance the words 'Holiness to the Lord;' and 'The House of the Lord.'
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I pass by two Baha'i churches on my way to work every day.
quote:Each has written above the entrance the words 'Holiness to the Lord;' and 'The House of the Lord.'
Except...is it Manti? There is a temple in Utah that doesn't have it, but I can't remember which one.
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quote: >> There are certain religious requirements for a Mormon temple's construction. (Three levels above ground, one beneath the ground, for example. I think.) << This is incorrect. Take, for example, the Hong Kong temple, which is several stories of a larger building.
I'll defer to you, Porter-- but I believe that even the Hong Kong temple has a bit underground, then the mission offices, then the rooms above the mission office.
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quote: I pass by two Baha'i churches on my way to work every day.
No, you don't. Unless they've changed a lot since I left the church, the Baha'i Faith maintains only one real temple per country (and only has around five or six, total) -- the American one is in the northern suburbs of Chicago -- and generally rents out meeting centers for those occasions when its members need to get together (since there are no real observances). Perhaps you pass offices or conference rooms?
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Also, take the Vernal Temple as an example. When they converted the old Vernal tabernacle into a temple, they were going to dig a big basement like they do for most temples.
They weren't able to do this because the water table was too high. They ended up building an add-on to the building instead. The whole thing is above-ground because it has to be.
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Lewisville Baha'i Center 190 W. Main St, Suite 103 Lewisville, TX 75067 Phone: 972-221-5831
MPH: I can't name the temple, but I absolutely know that a friend and I spent an afternoon circling a temple and noticing (1) no "Holiness to the Lord" and (2) no Moroni.
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*nod* That's got to be a meeting center, Katie. I'd imagine that there's a large enough community there that they've got charity and/or advocacy work to do and need a place to do it. A Baha'i temple is actually something quite different -- especially since Baha'is don't actually observe services of any kind.
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There have been many temples with no Moroni. Heck, the Provo temple didn't have one until recently.
If there really is one without those words, I'd guess Manti. It has had some pretty major structural changes on the outside. There was a time when a road went *through* an arch in the Temple. I guess it's possible that when things were changed around, those words were lost.
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I looked at the temples on Bahai.org here. They are lovely.
In Baha'i, House of Worship = temple = church? I think I was using center = church, but that's not right?
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I'm not sure the concept of a "church" would make sense to members of the Faith. They don't have clergies or regular ceremonies, and basically just celebrate monthly anniversaries and holidays. Few if any of the normal functions of a "church" are performed at all.
-------
EM: I left because of profound disillusionment with the Faith's leadership, coupled with a general skepticism about God.
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Right on Tom. Thanks for sharing, I was just curious.
What lead you to be skeptical about God? I myself was borderline atheist for several years because of how disillusioned I was after leaving the Pentecostal denomination of the Christian faith.
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I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to what Scientology is about, but I have been told they push their members for donationas quite a bit.
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For you LDS folks, why can't a person visit inside the temple in Salt Lake? Ivisited there once and got to see most of Mormon Square (I think that's what its called), but there were places only Mormons could go, or so I was told. The big statue of Christ was really something.
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I can't remember who said it, but someone remarked about the Church of Scientology:
"When you make it to the top of their program, you write them a big check and they take you out to the desert and show you the space ship."
I try to be respectful of other people's religions, but Scientology just makes me shudder. Didn't L. Ron Hubbard admit that he invented the religion on a bet with some other writers that he could start a religion?
And wasn't he later excommunicated from the religion he started himself only later to be brought back into the fold?
And wasn't the church caught purchasing thousands and thousands of copies of Dianetics each month just to keep it on the best sellers list?
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quote:For you LDS folks, why can't a person visit inside the temple in Salt Lake? I visited there once and got to see most of Mormon Square (I think that's what its called), but there were places only Mormons could go, or so I was told. The big statue of Christ was really something.
It's Temple Square, but I like "Mormon Square" a lot. Reminds me of when Larry King spoke locally and proposed that we dub our leader 'King of the Mormons.'
Anyway, sacred covenants are made in the temple; it's considered the closest we can get to God's presence on earth. It's holy ground, kind of like when Moses was commanded to remove his sandals before the burning bush. Thus, temples are supposed to be entered with reverence and willingness to participate in the ordinances that are the reason for their construction. This is gauged by means of a interview with Mormons who want to attend the temple. They're asked first about the status of their faith and secondly if they have committed any sins that should be resolved before they enter the house of God. Answers are entirely up to the interviewee; thus, it's possible to lie, but one would hope that awareness of the solemnity of what's at stake would deter that.
This causes problems sometimes, particularly when weddings (among those ordinances) are held in temples, and some family members cannot enter. I was among that group last summer when my sister was married; I couldn't honestly bear testimony of the leadership of the church, and didn't even bother trying to gain access. A few weeks ago my parents asked me if I resented it, and I don't, really; I don't think the rules should be changed as long as the temple is professed to be what it is.
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I just thought it was hilarious that Tom Cruise was preaching against marriage counseling when he has 2 divorces and 1 failed engagement under his belt.
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So (I suppose I could look this up myself) what are the basic principles of Scientology? No one has mentioned those, just passing references to aliens etc. And Tom Cruise of course.
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