posted
So, I have a friend who I generally consider to be a nice girl, gets good grades, acts well, all that jazz. But she drinks from time to time at the parties for her drama company, and it was revealed today that she's done marijuana a couple times in the past.
She'd been not telling me that because I'm generally not a fan of substances and feel like it's a bit unnecessary, and possibly unnecessarily dangerous etc. etc.
This led me to think on whether my attitudes towards substances are well-founded or just based on social stigma. I can see how drinking or smoking or something could be fun and all... but is the minor brain damage and potential for addiction (I know, more significant and everything with often use.. but it's impossible to use often if you don't at all)
So I'm wondering what everyone's opinion is on the matter. And if anyone has some research to back things up that'd be awesome also. I SINCERELY hope I never find myself doing any heavy drugs... like cocaine, heroin etc etc because I can see no rationale in the danger those pose.. And as of now I'm generally against pot and drinking, but can sorta see drinking a little bit... (but then, is drinking really "better" ethically and health-wise, than smoking marijuana,just because the govt. says so) (also.. breaking laws isn't terribly fun)..
The floor is open. And I am eager to hear from y'all.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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I don't think marijuana is any more dangerous, particularly to other people, than alcohol is. I think either is probably reasonable to use in moderation, but I've never done marijuana and I have maybe one alcoholic drink every two or three years. In general, I don't like the idea of using mind-altering substances, but I think the danger of marijuana has been overstated, especially compared to alcohol.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:I don't think marijuana is any more dangerous, particularly to other people, than alcohol is
Marijuana does create second-hand smoke, which IS dangerous to others, regardless of other dangers created by DUI, etc.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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You know, there is another way to enjoy marijuana. Baking it into brownies just doesn't seem so harmful to me.
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote: I can see how drinking or smoking or something could be fun and all... but is the minor brain damage and potential for addiction (I know, more significant and everything with often use.. but it's impossible to use often if you don't at all)
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain drinking in moderation does no harm to your brain that could be classed as "minor brain damage."
Marijuana is not physiologically addicting, although research has shown that psychological addictions are often based on addictions to associated secondary chemical reactions resulting from the addictive behavior.
quote:(but then, is drinking really "better" ethically and health-wise, than smoking marijuana,just because the govt. says so)
If the two were ever made equally legal and available, we'd be able to judge. Because marijuana is illegal in so many places, we have no satisfactory way to assess (to my satisfaction, at least) whether it's more or less dangerous and unhealthy than alcohol.
From a subjective, anecdotal viewpoint, however, I find marijuana is, generally speaking, significantly less dangerous than alcohol. You can die from overdosing on alcohol; such an overdose is impossible on marijuana. Alcohol causes aggressive, even violent behavior in a substantial portion of its users; marijuana does not. Alcohol is addicting; marijuana has no physiologically addictive chemicals, although recent research has shown that many psychological addictions have a chemical basis. Etc. Etc. Etc.
One of the reasons why I find the two incomparable, though, is because there are many people who drink but do not get drunk, and there are some who do not even drink to get mildly intoxicated. Marijuana users, on the other hand, are almost universally aiming to be high.
I think both alcohol and marijuana can be used responsibly. I think marijuana can and should be legalized because I think we can easily create laws to prevent/punish irresponsible use, much like the laws we have to prevent/punish irresponsible use of alcohol, and legalizing marijuana would make it significantly safer in dozens of different ways.
Ethically speaking, you're on your own. While I think most people would agree that irresponsible use of either substance is unethical, I've yet to see a compelling universal reason why responsible use of ANY substance is ethical or unethical.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Marijuana does create second-hand smoke, which IS dangerous to others, regardless of other dangers created by DUI, etc.
Only if it's smoked. There are dozens of other increasingly common ways cannabis is used.
Edit: Val beat me to it!
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Well, yeah. But when people talk about "using marijuana", most of them I know mean smoking it, at least once.
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I was thinking not so much of the second hand smoke-type badness, which it would obviously be inconsiderate to force on ppl who don't want it.. but yeah, it can be avoided.
I don't know... at least without experience in the matter, mind-altering drugs seem scary to me: not being in complete control of myself.. etc. Hm.
My current feelings are that if you want to do that sort of thing, feel free to, but one shouldn't do it to the point that it's affecting their life badly. And before I know how I handle those sorts of things I'd want to do it in a controlled environment, like with just a couple friends, who are doing it or not, to get an objective perspective on the whole affair.
Thinking about trying either marijuana just seems more bad.. probably from its vilification in society.. eh.
So does repeated, though sporadic, use of marijuana (or alcohol) cause brain issues at all? I'd feel sorta weird about knowingly harming my brain... what with my affinity for it and all.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:So does repeated, though sporadic, use of marijuana (or alcohol) cause brain issues at all? I'd feel sorta weird about knowingly harming my brain... what with my affinity for it and all.
That depends on the amount used, for alcohol. Marijuana has never been demonstrated to have any damaging effects on your brain cells, even with heavy use. That marijuana kills brain cells is some of the most oft-repeated misinformation on any drug.
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: [QUOTE] One of the reasons why I find the two incomparable, though, is because there are many people who drink but do not get drunk, and there are some who do not even drink to get mildly intoxicated. Marijuana users, on the other hand, are almost universally aiming to be high.
True, but being high isn't a binary thing; there are certainly degrees of it. When I was younger virtually all of my friends were heavy pot smokers, and there would be times when they would smoke with the intent of getting slightly buzzed, and times when they'd smoke with the intention of absolutely blitzing themselves.
I agree that there is a lot more range of use among alcohol drinkers than among pot smokers, though. I've certainly never known someone to have a tiny hit because they like the taste or sensation of the smoke in their lungs, for example, but people routinely will enjoy a small amount of alcohol for equivalent reasons.
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I was about to respond to the first part of your post, and then read the second part, and now I don't know why I'm posting at all! Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I don't smoke marijuana and never will but I'm around it constantly.
From what I understand of it, both from erudite chemical study and social interactions, its status as an illegal drug is patently silly given the legality of tobacco and alcohol. It's as harmless as recreational substances get.
It's fundamentally different from 'hard' drugs like heroin and cocaine because its illegality does not reasonably reflect a public health risk associated with the chemical product. It isn't easily compared.
I'm at the point where I could care less if someone smokes pot. It's just fundamentally irrelevant to me if someone elects to. If it makes them boring then hey, that's their choice.
Of course I'm still also annoyed at anyone who pesters me to take up potsmoking. These dolts are rare, though.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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The only reason I don't smoke pot any more is because of it's illegality. It's not worth the risk. I'm a social drinker on weekends, though. A lot of people who've never smoked pot or drank are afraid of "not being in control" of themselves, but I think that's a distorted way of looking at it. I've never felt like I wasn't in control of my body or thoughts when drunk or high. It was no different than being very tired and silly because of it. You're obviously not 100% alert, but it's not like some demon is taking over your body.
I don't like sugar & caffeine highs, and find it somewhat unsettling how many people are addicted to THOSE drugs.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Smoking POT is very much like drinking, it can kill you or it can just give you a few laughs.
There are many factors that come into play. Do you have other psychological issues that are unresolved? Do you have an addictive personality, psychology, or physiology? Are you a motivated person with goals in life?
Smoking Pot makes you lazy and unmotivated, but you can, with conscious effort, override that. So, for some people, you can very easily smoke pot and get on with your life. For others, it becomes too easy. Why work for a better life when you can just smoke pot and for a few hours have the illusion of a better life. But of course the illusion fails and then you need more pot to sustain it.
I think it is important for users of alcohol and pot to understand the dangers, and to proceed in a way that counters those potential dangers.
One safety factor in pot is, as I said, it makes you unmotivated, so you are far less likely to drive when you are substantially impaired. More likely your going to be too stoned to do anything of substance.
Alcohol on the other hand makes you stupid. You drink too much and start stumbling around thinking you are invincible. You go out and drive your car because you think you've got everything under control, but at that point, you absolutely do not.
Now there are some harder drugs that are extremely difficult to control because for everyone, they have strongly addictive properties, properties that you simply can not escape. These are extremely dangerous drugs, and if you let your guard down for a second, you'll destroy your life very quick.
It is very much possible to use both alcohol and pot with a measure of control and common sense, and to control and moderate your use. I think both alcohol and pot, for normal people, are far less addicting than coffee. The only reason we allow something as habit forming as coffee is because you don't get stoned and stupid off of it. But for shear addition, coffee is more addicting than alcohol or pot for a normal person.
Notice, I said for a normal person. Some people have a predisposition or sensitivity to certain drugs that almost guarantees that they CAN NOT use it in a controlled and moderated way. It is like instant addiction.
For others, there are potentially sociological and psychological reason why use of any drug can and will get out of control
For these people, no matter how good it feels, they absolutely must abstain, or the consequences will be grave.
The problem is that society promotes and admires the very addictive behavior that are sign that we should not drink.
For example, in the movies the hard-drinking drink-'em-under-the-table kind of guy is the very guy who is nearly guaranteed to become an alcoholic. To people with high capacities for alcohol, that is a warning sign that you are likely to have problems. People who have high tolerance, that is, people who seem to be able to drink a lot with little effect, again, we imply that this is what we admire, but in reality it is a warning sign of high potential for problems.
I think we very much need to educate people in a realistic way about the danger and warning sign of addition potential for any and all (what I will call) soft drugs.
There are real dangers, but those dangers can and are moderated and controlled by people with common sense and a will to succeed in life.
posted
"So, I have a friend who I generally consider to be a nice girl, gets good grades, acts well, all that jazz. But she drinks from time to time at the parties for her drama company, and it was revealed today that she's done marijuana a couple times in the past."
I find it harder finding friends of mine who don't smoke pot than finding ones who do.
It's the minority. Even in my own family there are numerous people who do so, or have done so. My own parents have done far worse.
I don't care anymore. When I was younger I would have, but anymore? It doesn't bug me. It may decrease my respect for the person a tad, especially if they smoke heavily, as I've seen the negative effects that come from heavier as opposed to more controlled pot smokers.
Others here have spoken of the physiological things better than I could.
But honestly? Pot doesn't bug me anymore. I recognize the smell, dislike the smell, and have no interest in placing smoke in my lungs, either tobacco or marijuana, but if others do it, I don't really care.
That said, I have much less interest hanging out with someone on hard drugs. Vastly more... well. Unpleasant.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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A ridiculous number of people at the restaurant I work at smoke pot. I have a lot of different feelings on the subject of smoking pot.
First off, I think weed should be legalized, or cigarettes should be made illegal. I see alcohol has a separate issue, but one without the other is dumb and doesn't make sense. It should be made legal, even though as of this moment I have no intention of availing myself of that legality. In other words, if it were made legal I doubt I'd do it. I've thouhgt about it. Getting it hasn't been difficult since I got to high school, and in the 8 years that've gone by since then, I've rarely been in a place where I couldn't easily come up with a source for it, and I'm betting most people here are in the same situation.
I'd like to think I wouldn't have less respect for someone if they smoke, but truth is I probably do, but I swear it's not something I choose. There's a girl at work I have a bit of a crush on, and generally I go for nice girls, and when I found out she smoked weed I was crestfallen. I wouldn't not be someone's friend because of it, but I guess, just a teeny bit, even though I've considered it myself at times, I'd think less of someone if they did.
Have I ever? No. Will I ever? Doubtful, but I won't totally rule it out. I have to admit that I'm curious as to what it's like, but I have impressive amounts of willpower when I need to.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: Smoking Pot makes you lazy and unmotivated, but you can, with conscious effort, override that.
Has this been shown? I thought the studies out there were equivocal as to whether smoking marijuana made you more unmotivated or whether people already less unmotivated about life in general were just more likely to get into smoking marijuana heavily. *honest question
--
Edited to correct quotation and add: Or do you just mean unmotivated while smoking? I thought you might be referring to the much-touted "demotivation syndrome," but I see I could be misreading you.
quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: Smoking POT is very much like drinking, it can kill you or it can just give you a few laughs.
As eros mentioned, it's virtually impossible to overdose on pot. I'm not sure there's even one recorded instances of anyone doing so. This sentence is a lie.
The only reason marijuana (IMO) is illegal is that the government has no control over the supply. If it was simple for them to regulate and tax it I feel sure it would be legal in a heartbeat. The stigma is total b.s., as about 20 minutes of research should make it clear that not only is marijuana less dangerous than alcohol but it's also arguably less dangerous than cigarettes.
Second hand smoke is of almost no concern, because no one is around the smoke that doesn't want to be (given that smoking's illegal it's not as though it's something innocent bystanders are going to be subjected to). In my (considerable) experience being around smokers (in 4 different states over the last 10 years), it's either a small group of people where the majority smokes or, if it's a large gathering, the smokers will find a separate room/location to smoke in. It's not like cigarette smoke, where if you live in the wrong part of the country you can't go have a beer without being bombarded by it.
And I don't smoke. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the government and society where pot is concerned.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy Looney (the creator of the card game Fluxx) has a good article on why marijuana is no more (and probably less) dangerous than alcohol and tobacco if used responsibly. Obviously he's not an expert, but he seems to have read a lot of studies.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I used to have a boyfriend who used quite a bit of pot and in addition to decreasing his anxiety (which as we know from various sci-fi utopia episodes results in laziness to the point of societal collapse) he mentioned disproportionate paranoia and the munchies. He'd drive his car excessively slow - which I think made him a danger. I think if marijuana were used by the same social set as own recreational firearms, we'd see a lot more problems.
Alcohol and tobacco should be illegal, but I don't see that as a compelling reason to make "less dangerous" drugs legal. I support keeping pot illegal, though I acknowledge that the legal drugs probably are more dangerous. [edit extraneous rant on junk food]
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:As eros mentioned, it's virtually impossible to overdose on pot. I'm not sure there's even one recorded instances of anyone doing so. This sentence is a lie.
I know someone who died as a result of smoking pot, so that sentence is definitely not a lie. You are mistakenly assuming that overdosing is the only way drugs can kill someone. The person I know died because smoking pot eventually led him to more serious drugs, which eventually led him to severe addiction, which eventually led him to suicide.
To fairly judge the effects of using mind-altering substances, you have to look at the broader effect the behavior has on a person's life as a whole, not just on the short-term specific chemical effect of the drug itself. If you take a broad look and compare both moderate and heavy users, I think the harm it causes is clear. My guess is that the reason for that is more psychological than chemical; drug use distracts one from the more meaningful pursuits in life, and instead focuses one on mere means of contentment - and very dangerous means at that. Whether my guess is true or not, I don't see how anyone can deny that drug use completely destroys lives, and harms many others to some lesser (sometimes hard to isolate) degree. Just look around.
One can always argue that doing it just one or two times is okay; that very little to no harm will come from that. And while it is true that doing so in itself is not likely to do to much damage to your own life, once again it would be shortsighted not to consider the broader picture. For one thing, every person whose life was destroyed by drug use began by trying something just once or twice. That initial choice opens up many new paths, more than a few of which lead to pretty unhappy ends. For another thing, even just through the most moderate of drug use, you do support the larger drug-using network. Your money goes into the hands of those who benefit from ruining the lives of addicts. You set an example for your peers, your future children, and others. This final point is possibly the most important argument against very moderate drug use, but it is typically also one of the most overlooked or written off. It is easiest to act as if one's own personal decisions only effect oneself, but that is not the case.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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I smoke marijuana every day, and I think I'm a happier person because of it. I am aware that smoking is harmful to my health (which is one reason I quit smoking cigarettes recently - I'm about 2 weeks in and going strong, even though all I want is cigarettes). I look at it as my way of relaxing in the evening. Some people might have a glass of wine, I smoke a bowl. I very rarely get to a point that I would consider myself "stoned" or "high". It merely relaxes me a little. First-time users I'm sure would be affected differently, because the first time I smoked pot I was obliterated and unable to drive myself home. Since that time, I have never smoked to the extent that I feel clumsy or sloppy (that said, I also do not make a habit of driving after smoking - I just don't want to take any risks.) I think if used in moderation, smoking marijuana is a perfectly acceptable habit and FAR less dangerous than alcohol. *shrug* Just my two cents.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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drinking occasionally and having smoked pot a couple times isn't really much to worry about in my opinion. when i came into this thread i was thinking someone's friend was going to rehab for a drug addiction or something. i honestly laughed when i read the first post, partly because i knew it was sincere.
of course neither are good for you, but she sounds like she is a fairly responsible person. i wouldnt worry too much about it. now, if she starts missing work, or avoiding friends for extended periods of time... that's different.
Posts: 813 | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:As eros mentioned, it's virtually impossible to overdose on pot. I'm not sure there's even one recorded instances of anyone doing so. This sentence is a lie.
I know someone who died as a result of smoking pot, so that sentence is definitely not a lie. You are mistakenly assuming that overdosing is the only way drugs can kill someone. The person I know died because smoking pot eventually led him to more serious drugs, which eventually led him to severe addiction, which eventually led him to suicide.
The pot didn't kill him; he killed himself. My statement stands.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:I know someone who died as a result of smoking pot, so that sentence is definitely not a lie. You are mistakenly assuming that overdosing is the only way drugs can kill someone. The person I know died because smoking pot eventually led him to more serious drugs, which eventually led him to severe addiction, which eventually led him to suicide.
If you can find me even ONE study that shows a causal relationship between marijuana and other drug use, then this might have merit--say, about as much as blaming Mohammad for 9/11.
Another ridiculous, oft-repeated myth about marijuana: it's a "gateway drug."
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I hope you continue in your effort to be free of tobacco, Avadaru.
Re: gateway drug
I'd say it's more like blaming Saddam Hussein for 9/11. Once one is in touch with purveyors of illegal substances, the chances of being offered something different increase. Of course, a lot of pot and LSD sellers wouldn't mingle with hard drug dealers, but they could probably hook you up if you asked.
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I also disagree with the theory that marijuana is a gateway drug. I tried marijuana for the first time because I was curious about it. I have tried other, harder drugs for the exact same reason - curiosity about their effects. The fact that I smoke pot had absolutely nothing to do with my experimentation with other substances - it just so happened that I was exposed to pot before any other drugs. And I don't do any hard drugs anymore - experimentation was all it was, and I don't intend to do them again. I feel that there is a definite strong danger in using drugs like meth and ecstasy, whereas with marijuana I don't feel like I'm putting myself at a high level of risk.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:I know someone who died as a result of smoking pot, so that sentence is definitely not a lie. You are mistakenly assuming that overdosing is the only way drugs can kill someone. The person I know died because smoking pot eventually led him to more serious drugs, which eventually led him to severe addiction, which eventually led him to suicide.
If you can find me even ONE study that shows a causal relationship between marijuana and other drug use, then this might merit--say, about as much as blaming Mohammad for 9/11.
Another ridiculous, oft-repeated myth about marijuana: it's a "gateway drug."
Not only that, but you can always backtrack from whatever 'disaster event' to some prime mover -- why decide that pot smoking was the first domino? I mean, if causal relationships are what you're using for evidence you may as well keep going.
Why does someone smoke in the first place? Peer pressure, boredom, curiosity, not enough hugs as a child? What causes those things? What causes the things that cause those things?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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ok, i actually kind of agree with the 'gateway drug' theory. many people that get high for the first time, are doing it with marijuana. some of these people enjoy the high so much that they are more willing to try harder drugs to see what a new high would be like. and like what pooka said, most people that sell pot, are very likely to be able to get other stuff, or even promote it to you.
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quote:Originally posted by Avadaru: I feel that there is a definite strong danger in using drugs like meth and ecstasy, whereas with marijuana I don't feel like I'm putting myself at a high level of risk.
Ecstasy isn't really in the same class as meth though, is it? In terms of the danger it presents, I mean. I had thought that a lot of the dangers it was said to possess were just the product of fearmongering, rather than scientific study. There's the danger of dehydration, of course, and as with any drug there's the danger of its being cut with toxic substances, and I seem to remember something about increased levels of depression in people who used it habitually, but I admit that I haven't been particularly focused on it, so I could easily have missed some studies.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I grew up in a Christian home that was radically against alcohol. There are any number of alcoholics among my family.
My mom saw me drink alcohol for the first time at a wedding. Afterwards, she wanted to have a huge discussion about it.
She said "I taught you alcohol was wrong!"
I said, "No, you taught me alcohol was scary. It isn't, and I'm not going to live my life like it is."
There are things that can kill you, and there are things that can destroy your life.
Lung cancer from smoking kills you. Meth addiction destroys your life. So does alcoholism.
One does something that was inevitable anyways. One destroys everything good.
Most of North America's drug hysteria is based on nothing other than fear. Get over it, North America. The drugs won the war, and I'm cheering for them as they mop up.
Posts: 1515 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Noemon, they are very different drugs with differing effects on the body and mind. I just used them as examples of harder drugs that I consider to be much more dangerous than marijuana.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:I know someone who died as a result of smoking pot, so that sentence is definitely not a lie. You are mistakenly assuming that overdosing is the only way drugs can kill someone. The person I know died because smoking pot eventually led him to more serious drugs, which eventually led him to severe addiction, which eventually led him to suicide.
If you can find me even ONE study that shows a causal relationship between marijuana and other drug use, then this might have merit--say, about as much as blaming Mohammad for 9/11.
Another ridiculous, oft-repeated myth about marijuana: it's a "gateway drug."
I can give you all of the anecdotal information you want. I run a recovery program for men. Almost every client, with an addiction to something other than alcohol, that has entered our program in the past 5 years has started with alcohol and then Marijuana.
Addiction is obviously much larger than whether or not somebody used marijuana at some point in their history. However the prior use of marijuana by hard users cannot be simply ignored.
Posts: 35 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Tres: You don't think the emotional state behind his suicide is what caused him to smoke MJ and, when that didn't fix him, move on to harder drugs?
You haven't given us much of the story to work with.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Cr1spy: that isn't even very much anecdotal evidence. There is no doubt that those who might use hard drugs are more likely to use less hard drugs as well, and that someone likely to use drugs is likely to start with more readily available and socially acceptable drugs. Alcohol is more available and socially acceptable than marijuana. Marijuana is more available and socially acceptable than harder drugs such as heroin and cocaine.
The gateway drug question is, if you took the same person and created an identical alternate universe, then in one universe somehow prevented them from ever obtaining marijuana, while in the other allowing them to acquire it like normal, would they be more likely to use hard drugs in the universe they tried marijuana.
I think the answer is yes, actually, but I also think that this is due to issues of access and habituation, not anything about marijuana (test with any other illegal drug as the 'gateway'), and that any remaining effect would be practically nonexistent (and probably on the same order of magnitude as the effect of personality type). I think that most of marijuana's gateway drug properties, what little it has, would be removed if it became legal.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Cr1spy: However the prior use of marijuana by hard users cannot be simply ignored.
Nope, it sure can't. But you should remember the hatrack debate thread motto: Correlation does not equal causation.
There could be many reasons why alcohol, nicotine, and marijuana are typically the first drugs people try. I'll give you a few. They're the easiest to get. They're also (arguably, in the case of alcohol) the least likely to kill you on first use. Alcohol and tobacco are regulated, so you don't have to worry about getting a bad batch like you do with harder drugs, and marijuana is natural, so you can be fairly certain it's not mixed with anything*.
Also, there's a selection bias present in your anecdotal evidence: people who are predisposed to altering their consciousness for whatever reason.
*fairly certain, but not positive. Marijuana in bud form can be laced with things, but I doubt it's very common and it's not for the same reasons are other controlled substances are (usually to make them weigh out heavier or to lessen the purity -- both done to maximize profit).
Edit: Aaand, fugu beat me to it by scant seconds.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Noemon, they are very different drugs with differing effects on the body and mind. I just used them as examples of harder drugs that I consider to be much more dangerous than marijuana.
Actual MDMA is not "much more dangerous" than THC. They are pretty much in the same category of "not very dangerous at all". However, pills commonly labeled as "ecstasy" very often have other drugs (like methamphetamines, which actually are very dangerous) included. An "ecstasy" pill may not even include any MDMA, and may be the more dangerous PMA.
My own opinion is that Marijuana is only a gateway drug because it is illegal. Currently, the same person who gets you pot can likely get you the harder stuff, or hook you up with someone who can. If it was sold at Walmart, I don't think there would be much connection at all.
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Cr1spy, a very good summary of the problems of anecdotal evidence can be found in ClaudiaTherese's first post on this page (sorry to not be linking you directly to her post. For some reason it's not working for me when I try to do that. I'm sure I'm just typing something wrong when I'm doing it, though).
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Is anyone arguing that Robitussin is a gateway drug?
I believe I am. But I think alcohol is the main gateway drug in terms of someone finding out what it is like to be "buzzed".
P.S. Starsnuffer, getting back to your first post, it would depend on a lot of factors. Is this person underage? Is drinking and drugs against her professed religion? I have to figure that the answer to at least one of these questions is "yes" or you wouldn't be asking. If she's at a transition in life, being a good friend will be a greater gift for her than passing judgment. If it comes to a point that you worry about getting mixed up in it by association, then the friendship may be affected.
quote:Originally posted by pooka: I believe I am. But I think alcohol is the main gateway drug in terms of someone finding out what it is like to be "buzzed".
You're not serious, are you?
DXM is such a powerful, dangerous psychoactive that I'd class it as significantly more dangerous than LSD, shrooms, ecstacy and marijuana combined.Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, I'm just going by things that were countenanced by my primary source of anecdotes, which was a guy I dated for about two years bridging high school and college. He didn't think a DXM trip was worth the taste, and he much preffered mellowing agents. He didn't try ecstasy while we were together, though he thought it sounded cool.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Tres: You don't think the emotional state behind his suicide is what caused him to smoke MJ and, when that didn't fix him, move on to harder drugs?
You haven't given us much of the story to work with.
I don't intend to put the personal details of other people's lives on a public forum like this. But it was pretty clear that the drugs were the leading factor in his downfall, by far.
I really don't think you'd have to search very hard to find countless similar stories. I'm no expert, so I have no studies to cite and the ones I can imagine would only demonstrate correlation, but the anecdotal evidence seems pretty overwhelming. I think it would take some pretty difficult rationalization to try and argue that the seemingly strong tendency of marijuana users to have problems is not caused in part by the marijuana use.
There is, of course, the question of whether legalizing it would make things better or worse. I really don't know, but I also don't think that's the question here. The question is for each individual person, given that it is illegal and has the effects it does, are the benefits worth the personal and ethical costs? I really don't see how it can be.
I will say one addition thing though: The fellow I knew who committed suicide was not a bad person. And I don't think Starsnuffer's friend's use of marijuana a couple of times makes her a bad person either. Even if I do think it is a mistake, it doesn't by itself prevent her from being a nice person who acts well and gets good grades. But I do think it makes things more difficult for her, and is one small step down a path that is good neither for her nor for those who end up being effected by her decisions.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: The only reason I don't smoke pot any more is because of it's illegality.
I think that is the most important thing to remember if you having a discussion comparing alcohol to marijuana. Alcohol = legal (if consumed at home, not driving, etc.) Pot use is not. So you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of either action before you try either.
I don't use either, however, I did when I was younger. My only input on the 'marijuana is a gateway drug' argument, is that to me it seemed to have to do with peers. Pot itself would not make me want to try "harder" drugs (actually, I didn't like pot much); however using pot puts you in the company of other drug users; and that company brings about peer pressure to try harder drugs, bigger highs, etc. Because pot is illegal and you have to associate with illegal dealers to get it, it will put you in the peer group of people who use many other substances besides pot, and that alone increases your chances of trying something else.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I don't see a strong tendency of marijuana users to have problems anywhere beyond the norm. I've noticed a strong tendency for people to have problems, particularly young people.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Farmgirl: that's definitely something I see as well, and a strong argument for legalizing pot, IMO.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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