posted
Breastfeeding in public? That's nothin'. Once, while I was working at Boston Market, a woman changed her baby's diaper on one of the tables in the eating area! Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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A man peeked under my mother-in-law's blanket when she was feeding her baby once. They were both very surprised. I think he just thought he was going to see a sleeping baby.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Once, when my sister-in-law was nursing in public, a woman asked quite wistfully if she could watch. We gathered that her babies were grown (now I wonder if perhaps they were GONE)and that breastfeeding meant something very special to her. My sis-in-law was comfortable with this request, but I don't know if I would have been.
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Boon
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fallow: To be honest, I don't know.
If the man referenced in my first post could SEE anyting, I could understand his discomfort. But I take precautions so that all you can see is a blanket over an obviously horizontal baby. That's it.
I'm not uncomfortable feeding my baby anytime, anywhere. I cover up because I know it makes other people uncomfortable. I'm trying to understand why.
PSI: That actually happened to me once. A lady "just wanted to see the baby" I was feeding at the time. She got an eyeful, turned red, and apologized. I laughed and told her she hadn't seen anything she didn't have herself.
Has anyone else noticed that even the most tolerant mothers get uncomfortable seeing a breastfeeding toddler over a certain age? Worldwide, the average age for weaning is 4.2 years. So why are we (Americans, or westerners, or whatever) so squicked? I don't get it.
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Do you think it could just be merely that breastfeeding is to a degree (more or less depending on where you live) a little outside the norm in terms of everyday behavior?
not that is by any means, unnatural. just not something you see every 5 minutes of every day?
posted
Personally I think it is because sucking on a breast has such strong sexual undercurrents. I think some men don't understand that just as their whaang has two very different functions, so do the breasts of women.
As for other women, I think those same taboos just carry over to them to some extent.
Dude, if someone asked if they could watch me breastfeed my baby, I would be creeped out. That's just weird. I guess I am not completely immuned from the cultural stigmas myself.
My husband says if the baby is old enough to ask for it by name, they are too old. I do think there is a sense of weirdness in our culture about a speaking-age child breastfeeding. Maybe we feel that their "innocence" has gone somewhat, and that they are no longer "pure" enough to enjoy that priviledge.
I remember in the Philippines a girl my age telling me how as a teenager when she was really upset and in need of comfort, her mother would let her suck on her non-milk-producing teat for comfort. Now that is just weird. Of course, in the Philippines it is also very common and acceptable for mother's to play with their baby/toddler son's penises. Peni? Penisi? Different cultures....
posted
I breast fed my youngest and I must admit I found it hard to do that in public, partially because of body shyness. (The other reason was that my milk was "bountiful" when Rhiannon cried. Got very messy. ) Whenever I did I made sure to cover up with a blanket and all. Some people were cool with it and thought it was wonderful, but I did get a few looks... enough to make me not want to do it publicly. I usually tried to keep some expressed milk in a cooler for those moments.
If I had another baby I'd breastfeed again and probably not be so nervous about it. I'm a lot older and less inclined to care what people think of me. Plus its sooo much better than formula- not just for health, but for your pocketbook.
Posts: 262 | Registered: May 2004
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I don't think seeing a woman breastfeeding modestly in public makes me uncomfortable, but I remember my sister breastfeeding in front of me before I had any children and the sight of bare breast sticking out of bra made me uncomfortable. I was mad at myself because I thought it ought not to.
I think that when I see a woman modestly breastfeeding in public, I am impressed that she is brave enough to do something I am hesitant to do. I mentally congratulate her.
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you're in for 5%, don't sweat it. not now.
Posts: 3061 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Boon
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posted
fallow, I thought it was more along the lines of "I don't see a reason for him to be so upset. Maybe if I get more input, I'll understand better." Hence, my questions. Care to answer them?
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It's 2 pages into your thread and I reckon you can answer your own question better than anyone else can.
Feedback is key, though, to be sure.
For the record: I personally don't find it uncomfortable, but it is outside the daily routine. When it occurs in my vicinity, I am inclined to STARE and wonder. Positively. I don't usually applaud, though.
posted
Nope, doesn't make me uncomfortable. Then again, I've spent entire months focusing on helping babies latch onto the teat, and I got quite comfortable with grabbing other women's private parts.
As part of my job, I have also watched young men urinate to assess the stream, done various rectal exams and disimpactions, peered into the secret silent world of the ear (and dug around thereof), and been involved with all those various areas we keep private.
The acts don't bother me, the parts don't bother me. However, I do get my red flags ticked off when someone is unusually focused on something (or unusually focused at an unusual time) which in itself is normal. That is, if a female friend were to discuss her breasts and breastfeeding in extensive and graphic detail in front of my husband, out of context of the situation, and despite the very big vibes of "please don't" in the room, that would bother me. That would bother me much much more than just the humdrum breastfeeding that goes on every day around me.
I'd be wondering about any other agendas she might have, and I'd be worried about any personality pathologies she might have. However, that would be far from the case of talking about breasts/breastfeeding in a relevant context (such as, say, here at Hatrack, where we have the lovely local expert Ela ) or just, well, doing what needed to be done quite matter-of-fact-ly.
posted
I'd have to echo Icarus's comments on feeling a bit uncomfortable about how to act and where to look or not look. I would add that I have also noticed a difference in my reaction contingent upon how well I know the nursing mother. I've seen my sister breastfeed her kids and was unconcerned. I've seen strangers do it and may have been a tad bit discomfitted but could just look elsewhere and move on. The few times I've been truly weirded out were with friends and or neighbors. I specifically remember a neighbor breastfeeding in her home when we were visiting. I kept casting about for something to look at. My eyes skimming past the mother's face and feeling adrift in an etiquette sea. Even tho it unnerved me I have always felt like it was my hangup and I've never thought poorly of any mother practicing this perfectly natural bit of instincitve behaviour.
posted
As for older children nursing, I am reminded of "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn." Ha ha. There was a little boy named Gussy who would not leave the nip. Finally, his mother painted her breast with a scary face, and when she bared it for him the next time, it shocked him out of the demand. Thereafter, it was referred to as "giving the Gussy."
One thing to consider is that poor people have always breastfed.(I am talking historically now) Wealthy women would often have poor women feed their babies(wetnurses). I would love to read "The Politics of Breastfeeding," and might go get it.
I think it is much more common since the 70's that women breastfeed, but my parents' and grandparents' generations were more about the bottle. At least that is how it seems to me.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I would like to ask all the mothers on this post that breastfed a question. I am planning to breastfeed. I am also planning to stay at home to be "on tap" as it were pretty much 24/7. Do I still need a breast pump? My sister (who did not breastfeed) keeps insisting I'll need one and tells me I need to get an expensive electric one because a hand pump will be too hard. I can't imagine I'll need a pump except in extreme cases and don't care if I get a hand cramp from the hand operated one. Help! I've never done this and need your advice. What seemed like forever to wait at the beginning is starting to seem like no time at all. I just want to be prepared and November 5th seems like it will be here next week! Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I have a very hard time with the disgust that people have for breastfeeding. And I think it is different from the shock from the first encounter of realizing what a woman is doing and feeling like a voyeur of this special moment. I can't quite put my finger on what the objection is. Even at its most "graphic" breastfeeding shows no more breast than a bikini would. I think it is more the nature of the act than the sexuality, but sexuality also seems to play a role.
I don't think the cards are the answer because most people don't have a problem with breastfeeding, its just they think women should be at home on their couches or in their rocking chairs with babe in arms.
Personally, I had thought not to use a cover because to me this is more obvious and prone to attract attention than not (hence the examples of peeking). I do have a sling which will most likely provide cover, though.
I have gotten several comments already from coworkers, asking me if I was going to be one of those women who "whips it out anywhere" and was very saddened. I also saw a woman with a sling feeding her baby in a corner and was going to approach her to ask how she liked her sling but she looked so uncomfortable that I thought it was best just to let her try to meld into the corner as best she could.
Don't know what my point is...guess I'm just rambling, but it is an issue that I am very concerned with.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
dawnmaria, Unless you are going to be away from the baby or want your husband to be able to bottlefeed, you should not "need" a pump at all.
I am planning on returning to work after three months and I have purchased a hand pump not an electric pump. I am fairly confident that it will work for me. Although it does require more effort than an electric, I think it is more portable, convenient and cheaper.
Ela provided me with some great information if you'd like more advice. Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Dawn- if you think you will want to go out for a few hours by yourself, get a samll hand pump. If you are staying home the only reason you would need a big electric is if the baby has problems, in which case the LC at the hospital will rent you one.
For the OT- well ,I am in my 7th year of consecutive nursing (3rd child)(nursing as I type, in fact) and yes I have nursed everywhere. Even at work, where I run the church nursery and nurse while teaching the lessons. I was recently complimented on covering up well Wierd, I never really think about it. IN 7 years I have gotten one negative comment, but a few "Awww, I love to see a nursing baby " ones. I think the area where I live (Seattle area) does have statistically higher bf rates.
With a sling and a few rolled up dipes, you can nurse hands free. I have cooked meals with baby latched on.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Public breastfeeding does not bother me in the least. Both my children were breastfed (by my wife, not me) and she had to feed them in public occasionally, but was very discreet.
What does make me feel uncomfortable though is when someone is standing in public, talking very loudly into a cellphone, with no consideration of others who may not want to hear the conversation. That bugs me MUCHO!
CT, Not much grosses us out in the physical anymore... I enjoyed your descriptive analysis of your job's less enticing points.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
The cellphone analogy is an apt one, Alucard. I was trying to imagine what would give me the squickies about breastfeeding in public, and I think it would be along the lines of a stranger (apropos of nothing) loudly proclaiming "I am now breastfeeding my baby. He is working on attaching to my nipple, which is quite pert and firm."
That would be weird and creepy if it were out of context -- such as if it were not, say, in the context of the woman getting advice, but rather in the middle of Walmart.
Just breastfeeding? No problem. Breastfeeding without a cover? No problem. Talking about breastfeeding in the abstract? No problem.
Play-by-play for the audience? Okay, yeah, that would make me highly uncomfortable. I am not, appropriately, an audience -- to treat me as such would be to treat the breastfeeding as more than just delivering food to the baby. But then again, I would suffer the same discomfort (and similarly query the speaker's sanity) if they were to give me a verbal play-by of their body's inner attempts to squelch a burp.
Though, in the proper context (e.g., not in the middle of a formal dinner party, but rather during a role-playing game for which much sustenance had been consumed, and much hilarity abounding), that would be okay, too.
I remember when my friend Kathy came home from the hospital with her firstborn-- she called me at least 8 times between 4pm and 8pm. It was kind of funny.
Anyway, she had forgotten the breat pump they had given her at the hospital. As soon as her husband left to get it, she called me. Seems her baby had eaten all he wanted, and she was still so full it was painful. I had to talk her through expressing the milk by hand. That was fine, but I kind of had to think to remember, and I remember Ron giving me looks as I walked around with the phone in hand and the other hand on one of my breasts, trying to figure out how to describe something I'd done but never really had to talk about. It was quite funny. I kept trying not to laugh, because I knew my friend was in pain. But the situation was still funny
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
How much pain are we talking here? Does it get less painful as the baby starts to nurse more? Heck, I am already in pain and I have 4 months until I have a use for these things! Is there any prep I can do so it's less painful? I haven't gotten that far in the books I am reading about breastfeeding. As it stands now I can barely stand my bra! I feel so ignorant. I thought this is natural. People have babies everyday. Yet everyday I am finding one more thing I hadn't thought about. Do you ever feel ready or competent to be a mom? Sorry for the whine. I am having a hormonal day. I looked at my husband over lunch and thought how I hope the baby has his eyes and burst into tears in the middle of the resturant. I assume thats normal, right. Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:...I got quite comfortable with grabbing other women's private parts.
Now, THIS in public...
Now where did that out of context thread get to? Darnit!!!
LOL
Okay, the cell phone comment has me thinking of other things I've seen in public that make me far more uncomfortable than seeing a woman breastfeed. While living in NYC I saw:
1) Two male bums (and I do mean very smelly, very dirty people) giving mutual oral-genital stimulation on the subway.
2) Two young girls and a young man, all obviously VERY high on some drug, fondling each other's breasts and talking loudly about who would do what to whom over the next several months. Day by day account -- calendars were pulled out to make a record of who had which days. This was NOT nearly as tittilating as one might think. Especially since these drugged up kids totally lacked imagination. LOL
3) Peeing in public. Men and women. With and without removing their garments first. Um, yeah, it was basically everywhere in NYC when I lived there.
4) Public expectoration. Anywhere, anytime. Hawk up a "lugey" is always in fashion.
5) Chewing tobacco. Hey, you gotta do something with it when you're done, right? And how do you know when you're done anyway?
6) Heimlich manuever. Okay, it saves lives. But that dislodged food is a projectile. Many people find it difficult to return to eating after witnessing the Heimlich manuever in action. (at a minimum, they cut the food into smaller pieces and chew more thoroughly) I have seen and joined in on wonderful standing ovations after its use.
7) People walking barefoot in Manhattan. People spit there! And chewing tobacco. And urine! Yuck!
8) People rummaging in trash bins for food or alcohol. And then eating it/drinking it.
9) People being beat up. Well, okay, I really only saw the aftermath, not the actual assault. But it was still horrible and anyone with even a middling imagination could probably picture the actual act in their mind.
10) Dead, burnt body in a dumpster. Probably ticked someone off would be my guess. I moved shortly thereafter.
11) Live chicken in a city garbage can. Guess it grew up after Easter? Not as much fun anymore?
12) Little boy calling a black woman "the 'N' word". I mean a little boy. And saying it like he HATED her. So weird. So sad. It still depresses me to think about how that child must've been raised (or not...)
13) Prostitutes with needle tracks & no teeth. Okay, sure I prefer my prostitutes to look like debutantes. I mean, who doesn't? I think the really dead-end ones should be retired. Don't you? Okay, seriously though, the uncomfortable part was that she was probably going to be dead in a few months and you could sort of see that in her eyes.
14) A preteen girl wearing a t-shirt with the words "Boy Toy" on it. I mean, where do you even BUY such a shirt? And how do you get past mom & dad when you go to wear it outside? And what must her self-esteem be like? I failed to see the humor. I just pictured her filling her name into some drug dealer's calendar while letting him fondle her in public.
I know, there are worse things. But the point is that all of this stuff happened in public and generally in full view of whomever. With the exception of the Heimlich manuever (which is a wonderful thing), it's all pretty much awful behavior, criminal in many cases, but socially unacceptable at any rate.
In that context, public breastfeeding is pretty much not a concern. It's not like the woman is doing it for anyone's benefit but the child's. She isn't soliciting attention (unless she gives the play-by-play that CT is talking about).
And, heck, maybe people in this culture will become less prudish as a result... Or at least recognize the difference between sexual stimulation and the mere presence of a body part.
posted
dawnmaria-- My friend was in pain from having engorged breasts. Sometimes, when your milk first comes in, your breasts get stretched and hard. Like rocks. This goes away as your supply starts to synch up with the baby's demand, and in the mean time expressing the milk relieves the pressure. Not to say that breastfeeding isn't sometimes a little painful at first. I had terrible troubles, even some bleeding and scabbing in the very beginning (that came from not really being sure when the baby had latched on propperly-- it isn't something that's supposed to happen).
The most improtant thing for me when it came to breastfeeding was having a supportive family (husband and mother, especially). My friend Kathy gave up on breastfeeding fairly early because her mother started sneaking the baby bottles, and telling her he wasn't getting enough. Plus her husband was weirded out by it. *shrug*
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boon
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dawnmaria: Check out the nursing section at Babies R Us. I'd suggest some of the gel packs that can be refrigerated or microwaved.
For engorged-feeling breasts, I'd suggest warmth. For general soreness, cold seems better. If it's nipple tenderness you're experiencing, try some Lansinoh (lanolin) and nipple guards.
Over the course of three kids, I've had just about every problem breastfeeding you can think of, including our current problem: over-active let-down.
The emotional roller-coaster thing is normal, although if you're feeling sad more often than normal you should probably mention it to your OB.
Go to the next LLL meeting in your area. They encourage expectant mothers who are thinking about breastfeeding, and can be a WONDERFUL support group.
If you need to talk, need advice, or just need to cry, send me an e-mail and I'll either give you my number or call you back.
posted
They say cold compresses and cabbage leaves help with the discomfort of engorgement. I have not used either though. But I think warmth encourages milk production thus exacerbating the problem.
Man, it bugs me when people say that if the baby latches on properly you won't get sore nipples. I got so incredibly sore with each of my three, and their latch-on was fine.
For me, it was a stage I had to go through until my skin got used to the chaffing. The soreness would be excruciating at latch on and then gradually subside throughout the nursing session until I could stand it. The pain was seriously worse than labor! I would scrunch up my face, stomp my foot on the ground and make little whimpering noises. Eventually my skin got used to it and nursing became no big deal--no pain at all involved.
I think it has to do with my skin-type. I also am very prone to tear (in birth) and get stretch-marks. Some people have tougher, more pliable skin. Extremely fair-skinned people (like me) are the unlucky ones.
posted
Thanks guys. Ya'll are great. I am lucky, my mom is very close by and my hubby is very supportive. My sister is just weird though. My first instinct when I found out I was having a baby was "OH YES< DRUGS PLEASE!" I wanted my epidural for the duration of the pregnancy. But I have read alot of things about it being harder to breastfeed initially after birth because you don't have total control of your limbs and such. I am going to try to go natural if I can. I am not opposed to the epidural but I am no longer looking to it immediately. I was talking to my sister about this and she was so patronizing! "All pregnant women say that so why should you be any different. You'll get it when the time comes." It relly peed me off! I know my family thinks I am a weinee, and hell with most pain I am but I am going to be a Mommy and they are made off tougher stuff then that! If it comes down to it being medically necessary I may but I am going to classes w/ the hubby and I am going to try to do this the way nature built me to! Oh, I could slap her! Maybe it's my hormones again!
Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
In my experience, it is the women who say they are wimps about pain that quite often find they can go natural and resist asking for that epidural.
If you are determined enough, you can do it. I had an epidural with my first two, and looooved the pain relief. I couldn't imagine going natural or even wanting to. Then for some reason my whole outlook changed. I went natural with number three. I prepared mentally and physically a great deal beforehand, and I think that helped.
I feel confident in saying that natural childbirth is bearable. But the most important thing is to not be afraid. If you panic, it will become "unbearable" very quickly. But if you remain calm, surrender yourself to your body and remain in tune with it (having good support from husband and professionals helps too) you *can* do it.
I think it must be harder the first time, though, since the body has never done it before and first time labors tend to be longer.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I did have a LOT of difficulty adjusting to breast feeding with the first one, but the worst of it was a really bad bruise/hicky thing I got when he didn't latch on just right.
But I did have bleeding and stuff. Actually , with the first one it hurt to breastfeed for abouit two or three weeks (only as he latched on). It was awful. And I'm not terribly fair. My sister is, and she had some difficulty at first, too.
The good neews is that it wasn't as hard with number 2.
Oh, and I second Lansinoh-- that stuff was a lifesaver.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Dawnmaria, Don't feel any kind of guilt about getting medication, or any feeling of "I will do this because I can" about natural childbirth. Learn all you can, let the comments roll off your back, and just trust yourself to make the right decision when the time comes. You are not wimpy if you get pain relief, and you are not stronger than anyone else if you have a natural birth. Either way, you are still pushing a very large object through a very small place, and once the baby is born, you won't care how he or she came to you.
I say this because I know women who have felt like failures when they had an epidural or even a C-section. They have felt like failures if they couldn;t nurse, or gave it up due to pain or any other reason.
You will be hearing a LOT of different opinions from this point on. People you know and love will really surprise you at how much they piss you off when they say things like: "The baby has diarrhea!!"(because breast-fed babes have resoundingly explosive poops that look like diarrhea) It was after about the fifteenth time of my mother in law saying this that I snapped at her. That and, whenever the baby was crying, I heard:"I think she is hungry," because she did not BELIEVE that she could be getting enough from my breasts.
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) Whenever I did I made sure to cover up with a blanket and all. Some people were cool with it and thought it was wonderful, but I did get a few looks... enough to make me not want to do it publicly. I usually tried to keep some expressed milk in a cooler for those moments. ![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
Plus its sooo much better than formula- not just for health, but for your pocketbook.
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