posted
100 years Goody. Or so they said in the first episode of Enterprise.
My opinion has long been that they next Star Trek show needs to be radically different from previous ones. The show is ALWAYS based on the COMMAND crew of some sort of space venture, be it either a space station or a space ship.
Either the next show needs to be groundside, or the next show needs to deal with people who AREN'T the command crew. Either do it from the point of view of enlisted men, much like Miles O'Brien, who if you saw the episodes focusing on him DID NOT always have the moral high ground. In the episodes where Garak and him were talking about his past, (especially "Empok Nor"), it was made rather clear that he had a very dark past, especially during his time served as a soldier in the war against the Cardassians.
There is plenty of darkness in Star Trek, it's just not something that Gene Roddenberry ever wanted to focus on, his were always grander good and evil arguments, not the stuff that actually happens to normal people down on the battlefield.
I think there'd be a temptation to make the next show into a futuristic version of the present, like doing a Star Trek: Academy kind of thing where it's basically Dawson's Creek in the 25th century. While I think the idea of a Star Trek CSI or a Star Trek Academy would be interesting...I think it's too much of a sell out, and would be very disposed against such a plan.
Either you move away from the Federation entirely, be brave, and do a show based NOT on Starfleet (which is risky), or you do something in Starfleet from the level of the enlistee, the guy who didn't get into the Academy. Possible ideas I'd see are:
1. Do the story of a young Miles O'Brien. You still get all the cool advanced phasers and transporters and such of the future, you get the action of the war with the Cardassians, and you learn just where he got all those interesting skills. At the same time, it's the nitty gritty of the future, not the lofty Starfleet Captains in their comfy chairs that so many anti-heroes, such as Nicolas Edington, are always criticizing. There's another world out there, and it can be explored.
2. Do something about ground troops during the Dominion War. Some of the best episodes in DS9 for character development were the ones where they were on the ground fighting, such as "Siege of AR-554" And the one where Bashir takes Jake into that battle with the Klingons. Those were powerful episodes for Jake and Nog, and it even got in your face about the disparity between the magical idyllic nature of the Federation and the reality of what the galaxy was like as a whole. I'd love to see this gone into further.
3. Do something in the future, but don't base it on a starship or a space station, make it on Earth, make it wherever, but put it on the ground. Possible ideas could be doing the timeline just after the end of DS9. Set it on Earth, even bring in Colm Meany (teaching at the Academy) as a frequent guest star. It'd be awesome if they could get Boothby too! Man I'd love to see him be a more recurring character, as he's more or less made into the ultimate mentor character throughout more than one Star Trek series. I don't know what the focus could be. Maybe something from the never mentioned Beta Quadrant, or perhaps the Federation is gearing up for an assault on Borg Space, or a new Borg invasion has to be dealt with. But there are a ton of questions that remain unanswered about the future of a non-military nature. I'd love to see all that explored. It takes away from the darker side of the future, but it'd at least be more original.
4. Take us away from the Federation entirely. Do something on a group like the Orion Syndicate. It sounds like it might be the Sopranos in Space (heh), but if you want the Firefly type of roughneck living, you can't do it in the Federation at all, you have to leave it, and either go to an independent trader, Cassidy Yates style, OR, and this could really be something, you do the story of the Maquis. Now THAT is the kind of rough, under the cover of darkness, fighting against the odds grey area of good and evil that Star Trek could use in this day and age. They fight just to be left alone, and because they hate the fact that two huge governments are trading away people's homes and lives on pieces of paper.
In many ways, I think the Maquis are a band that many of us would and could identify with. Nicholas Edington, Ro Laren, and others have shown us that the Maquis are not evil, yet they fight against the Federation, who is often considered the paragon of what is good and moral. I think the Maquis are the ultimate grey area of the Star Trek universe, and I'd love to see a show, with some fascinating characters, done for the next series. The only problem is that this looks a LOT like a representation of the Israeli/Palestine situation. Cardassians and some Federation officers call them terrorists, they and sympathizers call them freedom fighters, just trying to win back their homes.
It might be an interesting way of doing some delicate political commentary, showing both sides of an argument, but on a futuristic scale. And perhaps showing that even in the future these kinds of arguments still exist.
Edit to add: Damn, I didn't realize the actor who played Boothby died in 2001. I really liked him. He was a character I would have loved to see more exploration on. But perhaps they could still do something with the character? Heck, maybe Boothby had a son or daughter? Or a young Boothby? Who knows.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'd love to see a show based on the Bjoran underground fighting against occupation. Underdog stories are very compelling, and there is a great deal of potential. Friendship, hardship, betrayal, and so much more.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I always thought that an interesting idea which went largely unexplored was that of Section 31, the black ops intelligence group of Starfleet. Apparently they weren't under the authority of any branch of Starfleet intelligence, but rather existed as a rogue group that would take care of threats against the Federation using extreme measures (ie. Committing genocide against the Founders by introducing a fatal disease into their world). Fans of DS9 will most likely be familiar with Section 31, as some of the best episodes revolved around their attempts to recruit and use Doctor Julian Bashir.
Section 31 is perhaps the best vehicle through which they could create a dark Star Trek premise without introducing something entirely new. The thought that Starfleet would have an organization like the Cardassian's Obsidian Order, or the Romulan's Tal Shiar was probably shocking to some. A new recruit into Section 31 would definitely grapple with some moral issues, being raised and groomed to believe in the prime directive. The concept worked really well with Julian Bashir.
In any case, I'm definitely in the camp that thinks any future Star Trek series should take place post-DS9/Voyager/Nemesis.
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Anybody remember that TNG episode where the Enterprise encounters an ever increasing amount of Enterprises from other dimensions?
Remember the one universe where the Borg took over everything?
They should do a 7 season series revolving around 35 ish universes coming into that borg universe and kicking the snot out of them and liberating all those poor souls.
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It must be a Rule of Star Trek Films/Series:
When all else fails, go back to Star Trek Academy!
I've been hearing variants of this (as a new show; as a movie; no, let's make it a show! maybe animated? no, a movie!) ST Academy plotline since I was first going to Star Trek conventions in the late 80s/early 90s. And my understanding was that it had been brought up several years before that.
The one thing every single version has had in common? They never made it to the screen. They either got scrapped completely (until the next iteration), ended up becoming something else (pretty sure DS9 was one such example) with the same producers, or fell apart bit by bit.
I won't be holding my breath.
But as to Peter David, his writing is MARVELOUS. Genius! His Star Trek novels are unflaggingly superb. I like his stuff enough that I've read the occasional comic by him -- and I am not a comic fan.
I would offer to bear his children, but I have a feeling his wife might object. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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If this information is correct I hope Abrams will pull it off correctly. I don't watch 'Lost', don't like 'Alias' and thought MI3 was one of the trashiest movies I've ever seen in my life. In my opinion MI2 and MI3 (mostly MI3) destroyed the reputation of the Mission Impossible series.
I'm a big fan of Star Trek and have watched every Voyager and DS9 episode, making my way now through Next Generation. I'm worried to say the least. If this film does to Star Trek what MI3 did to Mission Impossible it will break my heart.
And Shatner coming back would be ok if they hadn't pulled on the 'old restless captain coming back for another adventure' line so many times already. Still, getting all the captains together should be fun - as long as it doesn't keep new characters from developing. I would personally love to see a DS9 or Voyager film.
Yes, Insurrection is probably the best of the Star Trek films so far.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Personally, of the TNG films, Generations is probably still my favorite.
I'd love to see a DS9 film, but the whole crew is so widely dispersed now, what would they do? I just don't see a plot really making sense. I suppose it would have to center around Sisko coming back from the Celestial Temple. But then Miles is on Earth, Odo is on the Delta Quadrant, Worf is in the Klingon Empire somewhere hunting targs with Martok. Not that it's ever been a problem getting him back to the Enterprise for one of their movies. My god, the WEAK excuses they have for throwing him back on to the Enterprise boggle the mind.
Much as I love TNG films, they either need new writers for something insanely, dramatically awesome, or they need to lay it to rest, and try something new. Voyager movies would be interesting, but what would they center around? It'd almost HAVE to be the Borg. It'd be neat to see the new bitchin Voyager with all the shiny armor and transphasic torps blowing the crap out of everything.
Part of why I think the end of Voy messed up all future shows is that the technological edge that the Federation has now, due to Janeway's time traveling shenanigans, is so great that no one in the Alpha Quadrant can even touch them without getting blown to smithereens.
Personally, I think the only idea for a Voy movie would have to involve time travel, sadly. Where they heck are all those guys from Starfleet's Temporal division trying to catch future Janeway? They're ALWAYS after her, why not this time? Especially considering it's her biggest incursion yet.
Section 31 is interesting. They aren't part of Starfleet Intelligence, but they are an official part of the Federation, as described in the Starfleet Charter, and as more or less confirmed by the President to Sisko. Still, I don't see how you could make a multi-season series out of it. Unless it became Alias in space, which I would never watch.
I don't think the series needs to be rested for a decade until it can be unearthed, ready for a comeback. They just need a good idea, good characters and a good writing team to do it. Something I don't really think they've had since DS9. Voy had its moments, I'll grant it that, but the majority of the real in your face moral ambiguity was centered around the doctor, while everyone else just kind of hung around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for Neelix to screw up the chili or for some crazy new alien to capture the ship for the umpteenth time so they could courageosly rescue it.
Were I the actual ship Voyager, I would've beamed them all down to the surface of a planet and gotten home by myself a lot faster.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I don't think it would be too hard to find an excuse to get the DS9 crew back together - as you say, Sisko coming back from the Temple will probably be occasion enough for the old crew to get back together.
Also I don't think the technological edge the Federation has is what's preventing the scriptwriters from doing something farther in the future - they could easily have the Romulans stealing their secrets, the Borg eventually adapting etc.
I loved Voyager, but every man to his own:)
What about a wormhole to the Delta Quatrant?
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I would love to see the Wesley as a “Traveler” them get explored in movies. He is a main enough character that we know him, but ensign enough (and young enough) that the writer could explore/develop a darker side in him. He could be faced with moral ambiguity. I could imagine a dozen cool stories revolving around his character.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:At the moment, we're not particularly interested in the future being idyllic (and even Enterprise was annoyingly idyllic)- we want to see people live in the moral grey area.
That's why DS9 is the right show to bring back.
The DS9 stories involving Starfleet officers making tough moral choices while fighting a relentless enemy are sorely needed.
[ April 23, 2006, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Last I checked, Wil Wheaton was working at an IHOP in Florida or something...
-pH
That's genius! They should do a "Where are They Now?" series, where we see Wesley Crusher working in a 24-hour diner on Zorgon-4-Alpha, Jake Sisko and Nog have fallen madly in love, dropped out of Starfleet, and have started a theater company, 7 of 9 is a vending machine repair technician, and Miles O'Brian fulfilled his life-long dream of being a matador in Mexico City, where he is a minor celebrity and is courting the President's daughter, who is really a Romulan spy.
posted
I'd much rather see 7 of 9 as a sex therapist.
"But she's never in the mood when I am!" "That's because you never put in any effort." "Silence! Clearly you are both malfunctioning. If she's not in the mood then you will put her in the mood, resistance is futile." "Well that doesn't sound very enlightened." "Enlightenment isn't always perfect, you will comply."
Heh, the Doctor could be her assistant.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: Shatner and Nimoy could play Kirk and Spock in the new movie if there is some sort of time travel plot twist.
What? In Star Trek? Neh, it would never happen.
In general, other than The King and I, movies that end in a Roman numeral tend to leave me cold.
You'd have to find a reason for McCoy to not be around though. DeForest Kelley died several years ago, but thanks to TNG we've established that McCoy lives to be 138 (I think). It would also have to be before the events in Generations which establish that Kirk ends up in the Nexus for a while without Spock.
I think if they're going to do it, it'll have to be straight prequel kind of thing.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by pH: Last I checked, Wil Wheaton was working at an IHOP in Florida or something...
-pH
Nope, playing Celebrity Poker (or maybe it's World Series of Poker, I forget which one). But he's lost the cute factor that made Wesley so appealing (at least imho). They'd pretty much have to recast the character.
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But definitely not in the can-heckle-Gene-Roddenberry-at-cons-and-get-away-with-it way, not anymore.
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Most of the characters are unique to the series, though there are a few (Elisabeth Shelby, Robin Lefler, Dr. Selar) who were on TNG for only an episode or two. The people are interesting and complex, the writing is a little offbeat and witty, and the captain of the ship is extremely clever. It's fun watching him outwit his enemies. I highly recommend the series.
I checked the first book out from the library yesterday. I'll let you know what I thought of it, if you're interested, when I've had a chance to read it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership? It was the bloodiest Start Trek. Picard actually shot someone in the head and his head exploded.
The episode ended with the aliens sending a signal back to there mothership/homeplanet.
I would love to see a movie that picks up where that left off. Maybe the Federation could become a dictatorship. The writers cold make it relevant to todays political environment where some feel our rights are being slowly stripped away. Just a thought.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Wait so Felicity chases Kirk to the academy, but ends up falling for Spock/Scott Foley (who spends the whole movie doing that quizzical expression which is the only acting move he has) and then it turns out that there's a polar bear stalking cadets who venture into the basements and sewers of the residence halls so Felicity (who is pregnant, by the way) has to dress up as a Bajoran hooker in order to convince a munitions instructor named Saywer to take out both Janeway and Beverly Crusher so that Picard can then go back in time and romance her mother so that between the two of them Janeway has enough mitichlorians in her DNA that when she falls in love with Data her feelings are so intense that it triggers the immaculate conception of Wesley?
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And, of course, Wesley then takes out the polar bear and discovers that he has such a blood lust for killing big game animals that the only way to sate it is to create a violent cartoon featuring a rogue CIA agent stranded in a jungle filled with big game that he then sells to a hot New York internet agency -- a game that is then used to train a Kardassian assassin who kills Spock which then leads Kirk to discover his true feelings for the Vulcan but since his love must remain unrequited, so he, Wesley and Felicity form a domestic partnership so that they can take care of the baby and support themselves by writing Harry Potter and Buffy fan fiction.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by lem: Remember the STNG episode where the little aliens implanted themselves into the Starfleet leadership? It was the bloodiest Start Trek. Picard actually shot someone in the head and his head exploded.
The episode ended with the aliens sending a signal back to there mothership/homeplanet.
I would love to see a movie that picks up where that left off. Maybe the Federation could become a dictatorship. The writers cold make it relevant to todays political environment where some feel our rights are being slowly stripped away. Just a thought.
Were they the same critters that Khan used in the movie?
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I remember being really grossed out by the way that guy's chest cavity opened up and the parasite "queen" reared up out of the gaping hole. It had pretty much eaten all of the guy's internal organs, it looked like.
This was after his head exploded.
Of course, I was 12 or 13 at the time.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I think one of the biggest mistakes made in the TNG movies was changing Picard from the diplomat that he was (making him very different than Kirk) and making him be Action!Picard in the movies.
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I remember being really grossed out by the way that guy's chest cavity opened up and the parasite "queen" reared up out of the gaping hole. It had pretty much eaten all of the guy's internal organs, it looked like.
This was after his head exploded.
Of course, I was 12 or 13 at the time.
I think I saw that one on its original airing. I would have been about 7 or 8. I'm pretty sure that was a first season episode, but it could have been the second. It freaked me out.
Of course, I watched the episode later and it sucked, but most of those first two seasons were terrible.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote: perhaps the Federation is gearing up for an assault on Borg Space, or a new Borg invasion has to be dealt with.[/QB]
OMG this has to happen!!! The Borg have to be beaten. Finally and completley. I dont care who does it. Janeway, Sisko or Picard....Maybe all of them could.... In the same movie!!!...But if I dont see all those trans-warp hub things(like the one that got Voyager home) destroyed eventually ill be like, sooopissed off...
Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:My opinion has long been that they next Star Trek show needs to be radically different from previous ones. The show is ALWAYS based on the COMMAND crew of some sort of space venture, be it either a space station or a space ship.
I think there is some real potential to do an interesting series of movie based on Vulcan, Klingon, or perhap Kardasia (sp).
Enterprise did some very interesting things with Vulcan and the evolution of Vulcan society. Why not do a show that takes place on Vulcan, perhaps centered around a earth embassy in a time period that spans the Enterprise era, perhaps shortly before or after.
Or maybe a show that features a federation embassy on Kardasia which follows the DS9 era. There's lots of potential here with perhaps a Federation martial plan to rebuild a peaceful Kardasia following the dominion war, plus you have a worm hole nearby, Bejor (sp?), all kinds of prejudice. There's even very reasonable potential to bring in an occasional DS9 character. Perhaps it could start movie that brings Sisko back from the prophets.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I don't know about the Vulcans. Having one of them in a show increases the snore-factor. As much as I love Spock, those pointy-ears are BORING.
They need a show with only hottie borg women. 7 of 9 can lead a crew of renegade borgs who run a galactic bikini shipwash in an effort to make money so they can run more commando missions to free more borgs.
It's a mix of USA Up All Night and the A-Team!
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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That's an interesting idea, and fits into the kind of radical differentness that I think the next show needs. But I think that any show should be set at the very earliest in Kirk's generation, not before. The question is, what do you want the focus of the show to be? Star Trek TNG never really had a huge overarching plot. Sure it had it's Borg ecounters, whoopie, but basically it was just episode to episode.
DS9 had a huge, multi-season plot arc that took us from basically the beginning to the end of the show. And Voy had multi season plot arcs too.
Shows based on foreign planets in embassies would have to have a set plot arc I think, but what would the enemy be on Cardassia or Bajor? Or any planet for that matter. The enemies of the Federation are defeated. You'd have to go back to a previous generation when there was still conflict, and it'd have to put the target planet smack dab in the middle of it.
posted
Abrams has chimed in to clarify: While he -is- interested in doing a "Stark Trek" movie (and has the option to direct), the plot blurb reported for the project is inaccurate. The actual synopsis of the film is being kept secret. The "Starfleet Academy" thing is just a rumor, though he does admit TOS period is his favorite.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Shows based on foreign planets in embassies would have to have a set plot arc I think, but what would the enemy be on Cardassia or Bajor? Or any planet for that matter. The enemies of the Federation are defeated. You'd have to go back to a previous generation when there was still conflict, and it'd have to put the target planet smack dab in the middle of it.
Oh, I don't know--as we're seeing in Iraq, occupying a conquored territory isn't always terribly easy. I could see a show revolving around, say, a particular peace keeping squad on an occupied Cardassia being pretty interesting, and it would be a handy vehicle for the kind of relevant social commentary Star Trek has often attempted to provide.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Teshi: Firefly, Battleship Galactica and Lost are all bitter universes where ideology is a bit lost and most of the characters have dark pasts and futures. Star Trek, is, almost by defintion, an ideal universe were the main characters pretty much always have the moral highgroud. Someone said they would be more interested in a show about the grunts and I think this is a symptom of this. At the moment, we're not particularly interested in the future being idyllic (and even Enterprise was annoyingly idyllic)- we want to see people live in the moral grey area.
We do?
Huh. I guess the producers of the Narnia movie must have lost their shirts... but then that takes place in the past, not the future. I guess that also accounts for the Star Wars prequels raking in the dough; they take place "a long time ago," after all. Can't quite figure out how Firefly tanked, though...
(Sorry, rabid cult followings do not a mass market success make.)
Seriously, I'm not saying that movies with nuanced shades of grey can't be good things, or even profitable, but I don't believe that they're the only formula that can work in today's market.
(Indeed, if Superman isn't still the World's Biggest Boy Scout in the upcoming film, but is instead given shades of grey and moments of angst, something will have gone horribly wrong. What makes Superman work is entirely different than what makes Batman work or Spiderman work. What makes one work makes the others fall apart. How this might apply to Star Trek and other science fiction films is left as an exercise for the reader.)
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I like what Teshi said. It's more interesting to see movies where there are some moral grey areas that the characters have to deal with. If their going to bring ST back, I think they should do some sort of situation where the Federation has collapsed, or at least a ST universe where it's become corrupt. At least that way, your good-guys are a little more diverse and the situations they're dealing with are a little more ambiguous.
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Not the First Contact kind, I'm talkin' LOTR style sweeping camera moves over MASSIVE software driven sequences with lots of gibber and lasers.
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Stephan: George Lucas killed Star Trek singlehandedly by introducing the idea of prequels.
Well to be fair, Lucas killed the idea that you can only make the amount of money which is conespondent with the number of ideas you can come up with. The new rule is: over-explain, dumb down, and pretty much step all over your original premise in order to shoehorn in a prequel which "sets the foundation." When in reality the only thing it does is ride the coattails if past successes. This is also the logic behind that rumor a while back which had it that Lucas was going to do a star wars O episode about yoda.... Blech. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Superman has several moments of angst in the Donner Superman film. Most notably after the deaths of Pa Kent and Lois Lane.
Superman II has still more angst, with the notion that Superman cannot love like an Earthling unless he becomes an Earthling. (Which actually makes sense, even if the "Kiss of Amnesia" power doesn't.)
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote: This is also the logic behind that rumor a while back which had it that Lucas was going to do a star wars O episode about yoda
Speaking as someone who found the last movie hilariously awful... if they dispensed with the CGI and brought back the Yoda muppet, I would actually pay money to see that.
Rocks, the little green dude does. Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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"Either you move away from the Federation entirely, be brave, and do a show based NOT on Starfleet (which is risky), or you do something in Starfleet from the level of the enlistee, the guy who didn't get into the Academy."
I already consider "Firefly," and especially "Serenity" to be an Anti-Federation Star Trek with Han Solo and crew as the main characters. A show with the Federation as bad guys or imperfect in the Trek Universe might tick off a few Rodenberry devotees. Look how quickly the cool Ma'Kee<sic> surrendered and assimilated on Voyager.
I think a Star Trek right before or after the fall of the Federation would be cool. Perhaps that would be too dark. Yet, it would definantly be different from all the rest as hundreds of civilizations compete for dominance. Perhaps Earth and Volcan seek to remain an alliance against the outside forces seeking for power and conquest. The Klingon Empire would be split between those who want to continue with alliances and those who want to go back to the old warrior ways. Romulans, of course, would be seeking to control more space - kept back by the continued alliance of Earth and Volcan mixed with the defensiveness of the Klingon Empire who is deciding if they should seek the same path of conquest. Lesser planets and civilizations would be either caught in the middle or taking sides.
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But he's lost the cute factor that made Wesley so appealing (at least imho). They'd pretty much have to recast the character.
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