quote:It's like a light switch. If I don't want to be plagued by male attention, I stop trying. When I do and put in the not-inconsiderable effort, I get all the attention I want.
Have you tried just being friendly and open when you want attention? Sorry that sounds snarky, but I have to wonder whether the light switch is in your demeanor and interactions as much as it's in your temporary shine.
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I've been dating for fifteen years. I know what my own experiences have been.
Are you saying that the way a girl looks doesn't affect the amount of attention she gets? You can speak for your own experiences, but you cannot speak for mine.
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No, I'm saying that you indicated that you don't try to keep your appearance to the same degree when you aren't interested in attention. It seems *possible* that your level of interest is reflected in other ways.
Just frinstance. I don't suppose you go out of your way to smile at guys when you're not feeling interested in male attention. Do you start smiling before you hit the hair salon and put on the dress, is what I'm asking.
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I think anyone who says pretty girls don't get more attention is being naive. Equally anyone who says hot guys don't get more attention is also being naive. At least women have a way of faking being attractive.
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I don't see anything wrong with a woman working to make herself look nice. I personally don't do it with makeup, because I find that when I use makeup, it causes lasting damage to my skin. (And I don't care what anyone who is trying to sell me makeup says to the contrary.) But I do like to wear nice clothes and fix up my hair for my husband. I really should do it more often, but I'm at that stage where I mostly run around a baby and pre-schooler.
In my dating years, I was a pretty cheap date. I did most of my dating in college and the culture there was to be frugal and mostly do inexpensive activities. Looking back, I probably should have had higher standards, especially with one particular boyfriend who was frankly swimming in money and never saw fit to spend it on me.
My husband ended up spending a bit of money courting me, but that was largely because we were long distance for a while and plane tickets are expensive. He says it was a good investment.
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scifibum, you'll have to accept my account of my life at face value. I know what my experiences have been, and treating me like I'm stupid isn't going to convince me otherwise.
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I'm sure there are men who don't care what a woman is wearing, but I haven't met many of them.
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I actually have an easier time interacting with people when I'm all "done up".
I feel like I can melt into the background easier, and go about my business in a very mysterious, incognito way, when I'm without makeup and wearing sweats and flip-flops.
Yes, I'm famous and shallow.
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When did I treat you like you were stupid? I'm asking a question.
Have you tried being deliberately outgoing and friendly without all the expense and effort you've said goes into looking hot? Was it a big flub?
(What you're saying makes sense if you want to pick up a date in some kind of singles scene, but I assume you occasionally date people who you have contact with in other contexts. Is that a false assumption?)
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: So what are my odds of getting a guy if I am an unconventional girl again?
Depends on your race, his race, your culture, his culture, your age, his age, your jobs, your geographical locations, your personal finances ... Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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@katharina: OK. Sorry the question was offensive. I obviously don't have a lot of insight into how some women develop their dating leads.
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"I'm sure there are men who don't care what a woman is wearing, but I haven't met many of them. "
Women are at LEAST as picky about what men wear as men are about what women wear. My experience is that they are much pickier.
Saying that a girl shouldn't have to pay for dinner because she pays to make herself look nice is to express complete naivete about how much money men spend to make themselves attractive to women.
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I know exactly how much my ex-boyfriends spent on their appearance: a haircut every two months. It's not even comparable - guys aren't expected to wear makeup, for one. Even at grocery store prices, that almost makes up the difference by itself.
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Just wondering. I'd like to find a girl that I don't have to spend more than $10 a week on (on average), but I feel that that's not realistic.
1) Pay all your expenses and necessary bills.
2) Anything you have left over, whatever that may be, expect to spend it on your girlfriend.
And, man, wait 'til you get married. It's the same thing but without the semi-complex math.
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Can you date someone for $10 a week? Sure--it's just going to take more effort, just like entertaining -yourself- for $10 a week would. Instead of taking her out to dinner and the movies, figure out when they're doing free Shakespeare or movie screenings in a local park and pack a picnic. Find out when her favorite author is in town and go to a book reading together, then stop for ice cream afterward. Go hiking. Cook a meal for her and invite her over for dinner. In short: learn what she likes (that doesn't cost money) and do it. Show her you care by paying attention to her interests, rather than just by paying.
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From my perspective, the expectation to wear makeup is more likely to be your own or from your female peers... not from men you might end up marrying. Without exception, my friends, male and female, who are married, met when the woman was not wearing makeup. In most cases, she wore makeup during the courtship only to formal events. And the men I know all tell me they'd rather she didn't wear makeup, even to those.
My girlfriend of 18 months has not worn makeup once since I've known her. So that pattern is holding with me, too.
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I know that TMG pays way more for his clothes than I do. He has considerably more money than I do. He also likes very expensive restaurants. He would have no problem paying for everything, but we have worked out a system so I feel comfortable and not like a hooker.
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I know exactly how much my ex-boyfriends spent on their appearance: a haircut every two months. It's not even comparable - guys aren't expected to wear makeup, for one. Even at grocery store prices, that almost makes up the difference by itself.
Gel, wax, cologne, nice clothes, condoms. Not comparable to what women do, but not nothing either.
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quote:Originally posted by Paul Goldner: From my perspective, the expectation to wear makeup is more likely to be your own or from your female peers... not from men you might end up marrying. Without exception, my friends, male and female, who are married, met when the woman was not wearing makeup. In most cases, she wore makeup during the courtship only to formal events. And the men I know all tell me they'd rather she didn't wear makeup, even to those.
My girlfriend of 18 months has not worn makeup once since I've known her. So that pattern is holding with me, too.
FWIW, I've heard women make remarks about other women's makeup, but I've never heard a man remark on it. And I think my wife looks great without makeup and would be just as happy if she never wore it (but at least she uses it judiciously when she does use it).
But if people actually find that they get more or more favorable reactions from the opposite sex when they wear makeup, I guess it might reflect a different social circle (with its own set of priorities and rules - having never pursued or given extra attention to "hot" looking women, I'm seemingly outside that circle, however it's defined).
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Sure, I'd love to.
I'm not married. I don't have sex.
Still wanna go out?
I'm gonna assume you also don't drink and conclude that we are completely incompatible. Best of luck though!
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I love my life, and considering that the quality of men I have met has gone up the older I get, I'm not sorry at all.
Not only are there worse things than being happily single, I think most things are worse. Just about everything else you can change - job, location, avocation - but being unhappily married has to be the lowest circle of hell.
But some people hate being by themselves, and some people would rather be in a relationship that can tolerate than look for one that they are happy with. Not saying that you are, but that being single isn't a disaster for everyone. Certainly most relationships I know of make me grateful I'm not married.
Considering I have met only a handful of men I thought I could stand long-term and it didn't work out, I definitely prefer the present option to being married to someone I don't want.
----
Jebus: I don't, and I think you're right. Best of luck for yourself. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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What do you hope to accomplish through dating? Is it something you want to do or something you think you have to do?
I want someone with whom I can be physically affectionate and talk about my concerns---and who wants the same things from me, of course. I don't see why either of those things requires continual outlays of money.
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What do you hope to accomplish through dating? Is it something you want to do or something you think you have to do?
I want someone with whom I can be physically affectionate and talk about my concerns---and who wants the same things from me, of course. I don't see why either of those things requires continual outlays of money.
They don't, or at least they shouldn't.
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Since my mind cannot really accept that jebus is out of high school, the whole talk of dating, sex and drinking is highly disturbing.
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My husband never spent much money on me, not when we were dating and not now that we are married. We mostly do things together that don't cost much money (hiking, biking, talking and such). I'm very happy with that. I'd much rather have him spend time with me than spend money on me.
I've never spent much time and money on grooming. I know I can go from looking OK to looking great with some effort, but I'd rather put my effort in to more interesting things. My husband actually prefers the way I look without makeup.
I'm sure I would have got more attention from guys back when I was single if I'd spent more time and money on how I looked. But I'd rather have one husband who loves the way I look naturally than have dated a hundred guys who liked what the beauticians could do with me.
If you spend a lot effort trying to be something you aren't in order to draw the attention of men or women, you are likely to end up with someone you don't really want to be with and who doesn't really want to be with you.
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I think there are many ways to be happy, and one person's way doesn't fit everyone.
There are lots of things that I'd never find acceptable, but that doesn't mean that I pity those who do. I don't like dating gamers and I'd never marry a nonmember, but I don't think what is best for me is best for everyone.
Someone else's dating life is the last place on earth it is okay to be judgmental.
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quote:If you spend a lot effort trying to be something you aren't in order to draw the attention of men or women, you are likely to end up with someone you don't really want to be with and who doesn't really want to be with you.
I agree with that in general, but there's a difference between trying to show the best part of yourself (physically and otherwise) and trying to actually be someone else, and I don't think the dividing line can be drawn with a price tag but has to be determined by each person for themselves. Some women never spend much time r money on their grooming and some do; just as some men will never spend much money or time on grooming or dating. In that same vein some men may try to buy the love of the women they're courting where as other just wish to make them happy by giving their dates what they think will be enjoyable time. Again it's hard to draw the line with a dollar amount we just recognize that it's different for all people. If a guy doesn't want to spend much on dating than his prerogative, so long as he's willing to accept that some girls will think he's cheap and doesn't care about them. I find it hard to believe that there's a right and wrong to it, though there are certainly levels on either side of the issue (and for both genders) that when exceeded, make it rare to find someone who agrees with your ... level of determination so to speak.
I'm not sure how I feel about the argument that guys should pay because girls spend equivalent amounts on appearance, partially because I'm uncomfortable with the feeling of a date as a trade (which to me is what that feels like) but also because I wouldn't be comfortable having a girl pay even if I was sure I'd spent more than her. As an example, some guys buy very expensive cars to impress women. Seems pretty stupid to me but I don't think there's many women out there who really spend more on their appearance over the life time of a car than the cost of a fancy, new car.
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I'm not married. I don't have sex.
:blinks: Am I reading this correctly that you are still a virgin at thirty-something? I entirely approve, you understand, it's just rather unusual and I'm wondering if I misunderstood you.
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Kat: If you expect guys to pay for dinner, I assume that you also expect them to drive you to the restaurant. If so, which do you think costs more, makeup or a really nice car every couple years.
You might think a guy isn't obligated to buy a car for you. But guys who like to date high-maintenance girls would probably feel as uncomfortable picking you up in an '85 Pinto as you would going out in sweats and a dirty T-shirt.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I'm not married. I don't have sex.
:blinks: Am I reading this correctly that you are still a virgin at thirty-something? I entirely approve, you understand, it's just rather unusual and I'm wondering if I misunderstood you.
Wow, and I thought *I* was asking personal questions.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I'm not married. I don't have sex.
:blinks: Am I reading this correctly that you are still a virgin at thirty-something? I entirely approve, you understand, it's just rather unusual and I'm wondering if I misunderstood you.
How is that unusual?
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quote:Originally posted by Speed: Kat: If you expect guys to pay for dinner, I assume that you also expect them to drive you to the restaurant.
I wouldn't assume that. She lives in one of the few parts of this country with fairly decent public transportation.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I'm not married. I don't have sex.
:blinks: Am I reading this correctly that you are still a virgin at thirty-something? I entirely approve, you understand, it's just rather unusual and I'm wondering if I misunderstood you.
I could list at least a dozen of my friends that fit that bill.
(I wouldn't. But I could.)
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In my experience, guys claim not to care about looks, not want someone to get fixed up, spend money and effort on their looks, but those same guys always end up dating the girls who do. I've seen this happen at least two dozen times with guys I'm friends with, over 3 decades. So my opinion is that guys may not realize it at the time, but they're unaware of their own selection criteria.
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Sorry the question was offensive. I obviously don't have a lot of insight into how some women develop their dating leads.
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