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Just wondering. I'd like to find a girl that I don't have to spend more than $10 a week on (on average), but I feel that that's not realistic. Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Depends on your race, her race, your culture, her culture, your age, her age, your jobs, your geographical locations, your personal finances ...
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Folks should date me. I'm so low maintainence, though I want the Ultimate Sandman and the Ultimate Watchmen though.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I am not low maintenance. I think the guy should pay for dinner and movies and things. I'll buy the movie snacks and theatre tickets for shows I wants to see and make dinner sometimes, though.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm just saying that if you personally spend, say, $10 a week on average on books, CDs, DVDs, games, etc., you have something to show for it at the end. I really don't like spending money on going out to dinner, shows, vacations, etc. because once they're over you have nothing to show for them.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I think I'd just go to matanee movies. No way a person should pay more than 7 bucks for a movie! But if the guy is po and I'm making more money than him (which is not likely, considering) should he have to pay? I am so super undemanding. I wonder why I haven't been snapped up yet. It could be due to my shyness and looking 15 years younger than I am.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I don't agree that money should play no roll, but if you really see it as an investment out of which you'd like quantifiable, identifiable rewards I think you should be looking for a very specific kind of girl...
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I am not low maintenance. I think the guy should pay for dinner and movies and things. I'll buy the movie snacks and theatre tickets for shows I wants to see and make dinner sometimes, though.
I buy into the chivalry/courtship ritual of a guy paying, but I don't think that should continue once a couple becomes exclusive.
As time passes, I become less and less enamored with the idea of the guy paying, especially as I see more and more women who just like one off dates for free food and entertainment. I think it made sense before the era of casual dating. Now I think it's unfair. But I was still brought up with those values, and they're hard to shake, so continue to pay, for the first few dates anyway, I shall.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Hubby and I go to the movie on saturday mornings. No big crowds, manatee prices. It's wonderful.
If you fret about spending money on your date, you will fail to impress. Save the cheapness till you already have her hooked in.
Syn: I'm super laid back and casual too (and I look younger than I am) and I still didn't find someone to love me back till I was 30.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Good, there's hope for me yet. I really would like a boyfriend, but I am sooooooooooooo shy and have no idea how to go about meeting one. But I want one THIS YEAR DANG IT!
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Folks should date me. I'm so low maintainence, though I want the Ultimate Sandman and the Ultimate Watchmen though.
I'm fine with spending more on birthday and Christmas presents. If you get things from other people that you wanted to buy anyway, it's as if you bought those things on your own and didn't buy anyone any presents.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Hubby and I go to the movie on saturday mornings. No big crowds, manatee prices. It's wonderful.
How much are they charging manatees now anyway? I would think there's a surcharge for the inevitable messes.
I'm done dating/courting so it's easy for me to say, but I think it's wrong to expect the man to pay for most of it. It's selfish for women to expect to get nice meals and entertainment at someone else's expense. Unless, of course, you are offering repayment by other means, but I think most women (and a lot of men) would object to characterizing dating as a venal business arrangement.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I think women do spend that much - when I am dating someone steadily, I spend as much every month on my hair, makeup, and clothes as he spends on dinner and a movie.
That division of cost makes dating expensive to both sexes. Going dutch makes it very expensive for only one.
If guys weren't so visually fixated, then it wouldn't cost so much to look hot on dates. That's part of why it's okay to get more equitable as the relationship endures: I don't have to get as dressed up every time.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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sci: Uh... I dunno.. hubby pays =) Like $8? I'm in the SF Bay Area though so everything costs more here.
When I was dating, I'd usually insist on going dutch (regardless of what sex I was dating) until I decided the person was a keeper.
Syn: Do you hang out with Otaku and metal-heads? Go to their conventions? Stand too close when you discuss said topics?
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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My now hubby and I started dating where we went dutch for everything. Once we started dating exclusive, he paid for everything. I thought it was a little backwards, but it made sense at the time. As a wife, I am pretty low maintainence. However, I do really want this specific pair of earrings for $200. In May, there is Mother's Day, my birthday, my anniversary and I will turn in my master's thesis and be done with that. Plus hubby has that nice new job. I think one pair of earrings isn't too demanding considering.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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I think women do spend that much - when I am dating someone steadily, I spend as much every month on my hair, makeup, and clothes as he spends on dinner and a movie.
I'm fine with girls not wearing any makeup or special clothes when they're out with me. In fact, I want to be with a girl whom I find pretty no matter what, because she won't be made up and dressed like that all the time. How do I tell a girl that? Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I think women do spend that much - when I am dating someone steadily, I spend as much every month on my hair, makeup, and clothes as he spends on dinner and a movie.
That division of cost makes dating expensive to both sexes. Going dutch makes it very expensive for only one.
If guys weren't so visually fixated, then it wouldn't cost so much to look hot on dates. That's part of why it's okay to get more equitable as the relationship endures: I don't have to get as dressed up every time.
See, I don't do any of that stuff. No dressing up, unless I've got to go to work, I hate wearing make-up, and spending hours getting all frou froued up... With song birds male birds have got to dance around and go, Look at me and my sexy pretty plumage, don't you want me? Where-as human woman have to be like baboons with their red butts sticking out going, aren't I hot? Run off with me. Or something like that.
Hmm. I must find otaku and metal heads. Maybe I need to get around to going to the MIT anime thing I haven't gone to yet.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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katharina, I see what you're saying, but would you agree that in a hypothetical perfect world, it'd be better if you could just invest exactly as much in your appearance as you want to, and remove that from the dating equation?
It seems like it'd be an overall improvement if women just looked like whatever version of themselves they plan to maintain, and men got to know what women really look like early in the relationship instead of finding out later.
And, to be honest, I doubt that men attach as much importance to the results of your investment as you do. (If they did, it'd be a lot harder to get away with reverting to a lower amount of effort/cost later in the relationship.)
But to the extent that some men WANT their women to have expensive looks, and that you want to date those same men, I can see that the expense might balance out.
It's just that as I think over all the dates I've been on - and it's not that many, really, but still - I've never really paid attention to the subtleties of the artificial hair color or the gloss on the fingernails of my dates, but I certainly have enjoyed the movie or food or minigolf or whatever it is that we're doing together. I assume that my dates got as much enjoyment from those things as I did.
So, from my point of view, whatever extra money my dates spent on their appearance *for me* really didn't do anything for me, while the cost of the meal or whatever certainly benefited both of us. (That is, I'd not have been bothered or less attracted if they maintained their baseline beauty routine instead of doing something special/expensive for the date.)
On the other hand, I get a great deal of enjoyment from physical attention, and would happily pay for everything in return for affectionate favors. But I don't think you'd like to put your dating in those terms, would you?
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tara: If you love her, you won't care...
Conversely, if she loves you, she does care
quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: I'm just saying that if you personally spend, say, $10 a week on average on books, CDs, DVDs, games, etc., you have something to show for it at the end. I really don't like spending money on going out to dinner, shows, vacations, etc. because once they're over you have nothing to show for them.
Depends on your priorities really. In some sense, yes, you may physically have something if you buy a travel book or a CD vs. going travelling or going to a musical. But many people value the actual experience (and surrounding things that may not necessarily be captured in physical form), so that can vary.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Who said anything about paying for affection? No, I don't think you should treat your date like a whore. I can't believe you had to ask.
*shrug* I'd be thrilled beyond words if what mattered what not the style of my hair but the content of my character. Till then, if I have to dress up and he only pays attention when I do, then he has to pay for dinner, dammit.
quote: It seems like it'd be an overall improvement if women just looked like whatever version of themselves they plan to maintain, and men got to know what women really look like early in the relationship instead of finding out later. ... their baseline beauty routine
Don't you think that gets affected by the desire to date?
I don't think it's a bad thing that people play the best versions of themselves while dating. Once you love someone, it is amazing the mental gymnastics you'll go through to justify that investment of affection, mental gymnastics that someone is rarely willing to do for someone they are not attached to yet.
I think that mental gymnastics is a good thing, generally. Certainly it wouldn't do much for relationship stability if every day you had to convince your sweetheart you are worth their time again - the point of life is that sometimes you don't have that time. That mental gymnastics is the reason sometimes people stay in bad relationships, but it's also the reason people stay in good ones as well, since nothing is great 100% of the time.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Just wondering. I'd like to find a girl that I don't have to spend more than $10 a week on (on average), but I feel that that's not realistic.
quote:Till then, if I have to dress up and he only pays attention when I do, then he has to pay for dinner, dammit.
You don't have to. Maybe you only like dating guys who only pay attention when you do, but there are tons of guys whom this is not true for. I'm pretty sure I've had contact with a guy on Hatrack who you've dated whom I'd be very surprised if this was true for.
Speaking for myself and for many guys I know, a lot of the effort and money that women spend on how they look (shoes is a great example of this) isn't something that makes women more attractive to us and we don't regard it as being done for us. By and large, it seems like women dress up for each other and because they like to do it (or feel insecure if they don't).
If you choose to date guys who care more about how you look in the specific, expensive way that women's fashion magazines sell that you are supposed to look than about the content of your character, I think that's your choice and that you do a great disservice to the much wider world of men out there who don't do this by assigning this to the entire gender.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I guess that by some of the standards listed here, I'm high maintenance. It works out, however, because my husband likes it when I look nice and dress up for him. He also dresses up and looks nice and smells nice for me. We have been together for some 10 years now, and it hasn't changed at all, so it's not like we were doing it just for the sake of dating.
I love to go out to the movies or on dates, which is especially important for us now that we have a child and our alone time is few and far between.
What's funny about it is that I still want to feel doted upon, even though our finances are combined. Right now I'm a stay-at-home-mom, but when I worked I made more than he did and he still paid for dates and entertainment. Since our finances are combined, it all came out in the wash. I think it's important for your significant other to make you feel like you're special, even if it's in small ways. It's the same in reverse, however-you should do your best to make your significant other feel like they're special, too.
My family has observed that my DH would pretty much do anything for me and one member said that they thought I was lucky because I had a husband who worshipped me. I was surprised that they didn't have the same in their relationships. I really feel like you get out of your relationship what you put into it. Even if it's small things like getting them a drink from the other room (something that costs almost nothing other than your energy and the cost of the drink), you should do your best to make them feel good.
I do think that it's possible to date someone and only spend $10 a week on them. If you really care about them though, you won't be keeping tabs on who spends what and you'll find that if you have the expendable income that it won't bother you as much to spend it on someone you care for.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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I think it's pretty important in terms of Mormon dating as well, because it is often, in the early stages, the only way to tell it's a date, since physical affection often isn't part of the equation in the beginning. Rather than thinking every outing with a guy I have is a date, I prefer it that I can tell and he can tell it is because he's paying and I tried to look pretty.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Omega, If I recall your past postings correctly, you seem to me to have a strange view of what a girlfriend is for.
Why do you want a girlfriend?
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I've gone through different financial and relationship situations throughout my life. There were times where I was making tons of money and I paid for most of the date expenses. There was a period where I was working on my start up and didn't have any income coming it where I made it clear that if she wanted to do something expensive, she'd have to pay.
I pay for dates, gifts, etc. because I want to, generally. Relationships where I felt I had to spend when I didn't want to, I walked away from pretty quickly. But it should be noted that, to me, the purpose of excess money is pretty much to make other people - usually ones I like - happy.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: I'm just saying that if you personally spend, say, $10 a week on average on books, CDs, DVDs, games, etc., you have something to show for it at the end. I really don't like spending money on going out to dinner, shows, vacations, etc. because once they're over you have nothing to show for them.
Are you sure you're ready to be dating? What do you hope to accomplish through dating? Is it something you want to do or something you think you have to do?
This is all just one big mating/courtship ritual. If you're not interested in the potential outcomes of such a ritual, then no, it's not worth it to spend any money on girls. It's also not worth it to date.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: ... a lot of the effort and money that women spend on how they look (shoes is a great example of this) isn't something that makes women more attractive to us and we don't regard it as being done for us. By and large, it seems like women dress up for each other and because they like to do it (or feel insecure if they don't) ...
Hand-bags are another glaring example.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Who said anything about paying for affection? No, I don't think you should treat your date like a whore. I can't believe you had to ask.
well, some women "put out" out of a sense of obligation related to the cost of dates. I don't think it's always a healthy or smart thing to do, but it's another way to balance the cost equation (and, I think, demonstrates that some women aren't balancing it the way that you are). For some couples it could be fine, I think. (I mean, as long as nobody's doing anything unpleasant without any reciprocal enjoyment.)
I wasn't suggesting that you would do such a thing, and wasn't asking if you do.
quote:I don't think it's a bad thing that people play the best versions of themselves while dating. Once you love someone, it is amazing the mental gymnastics you'll go through to justify that investment of affection, mental gymnastics that someone is rarely willing to do for someone they are not attached to yet.
I think that mental gymnastics is a good thing, generally. Certainly it wouldn't do much for relationship stability if every day you had to convince your sweetheart you are worth their time again - the point of life is that sometimes you don't have that time. That mental gymnastics is the reason sometimes people stay in bad relationships, but it's also the reason people stay in good ones as well, since nothing is great 100% of the time.
Do you think mental gymnastics are always required, or do you think they might tend to be more necessary when a certain degree of illusion was integral to the relationship in the first place?
But this is getting a bit confused, since we were talking about makeup/hair/clothes, and I don't think such things play much of a role in determining whether a relationship is good or bad, or tend to require mental gymnastics to overlook. Exercise is probably a bit closer to something that helps define the quality of a relationship - body shape is one aspect, but health and activity are also connected to exercise and I can easily imagine that a fit person who became unfit later in the relationship might thereby introduce stresses. (But, fitness isn't really expensive so I'm not sure how well it fits the discussion so far.)
quote:I'd be thrilled beyond words if what mattered what not the style of my hair but the content of my character.
Glad we could agree on something. I certainly don't blame you for playing the game by the rules you perceive in it. As long as your potential mates view the game the same way, it works out for everybody.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I am not including handbags or shoes in the cost.
I wonder sometimes if guys really realize how much makeup and date clothes in general cost. If not always in money (Forever 21 is a blessing from heaven) then in time and effort.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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In addition, I wanted to add that I don't feel like going on dates to movies, dinner or going on vacation are things that once they are over you have nothing to show for it. Maybe nothing material, but even if you don't end up staying with that person long term, you have built some lovely memories with them. Memories are to me just as important as material items that you can look at and feel. The difference is that you look at them with your mind and feel them with the emotions they invoke.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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Oh, geez, yeah - I didn't even consider the cost of a healthy diet and gym fees and sometimes a trainer.
Add in those, and it's easily an extra hundred to two hundred dollars a month.
He can pay for dinner.
quote:Do you think mental gymnastics are always required
Yes, actually. Maybe not always of the contortionist kind, but I think that part of being safe in a relationship comes from knowing that your darling will understand and forgive the times when you need support and understanding, and they'll understand and forgive more because it's you than they would for someone they didn't care about.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I don't wear a lot of makeup and tend to wear tennis shoes. I've been using the same handbag (I got at Target) for the past 10 years.
My "get a stereotypically male hobby" method is what worked for me. Further, now that I'm old and my meager looks have faded anyway, we have something in common.
My method is also cheaper and less frustrating for those of us that will never be a beauty no matter how much lipstick we put on and expensive clothes we wear.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I do not like handbags. Someone tried to give me one and I left it at home and found out when I was at Target. I had to walk all the way home having been given a ride, get the purse, have a good breakfast and I had to try to go out again by walking all the way to the train station. I like backpacks.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm right at the middle stage - I'm lovely if/when I spend the effort, and I'm plain if/when I don't. You know that moment in the movie when the plain girl walks in and she's gorgeous and everyone gasps and the mean girls ask her where she got her clothes/shoes/glasses or something and she has to beat the cute guy away with a stick? That's happened to me at least a dozen times in my life.
It's like a light switch. If I don't want to be plagued by male attention, I stop trying. When I do and put in the not-inconsiderable effort, I get all the attention I want.
This has surely affected my views on it all. I also find...I mean, if he thinks buying me dinner so we can have a conversation is a waste of money, that's a pretty good indicator of what he thinks about dating in general or dating me in particular.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I'm right at the middle stage - I'm lovely if/when I spend the effort, and I'm plain if/when I don't. You know that moment in the movie when the plain girl walks in and she's gorgeous and everyone gasps and the mean girls ask her where she got her clothes/shoes/glasses or something and she has to beat the cute guy away with a stick? That's happened to me at least a dozen times in my life.
I have to say "wow" girl...you've got quite the opinion of yourself. It's nice to have someone say that about you, it's entirely different when you say it about yourself.
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Well, I can say that right now. I got my heart broken a little while ago and so have spent the last while expending no effort at all, with predictable results.
I do expect this to happen less often as I get older, which is another reason I'm kind of cynical about how much guys care about appearance in general - it's so transient. But they do. A lot. *shrug* Thus goes the world.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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rivka, not a joke, no. You can certainly spend a lot of money on it, and I'm well aware that poor people tend to be fatter in rich modern nations, but *how* you maintain your fitness, and the amount of money you spend on it, are entirely personal decisions. (katharina itemized the expensive way.)
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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