posted
On a first date, I (female) always offer to split the bill out of courtesy. That said, I have a slight expectation that the guy will refuse my offer and cover the bill. When guys willingly spend money on dating me, it makes me feel better about them and about spending money on them. With relationships I've had where the guy was stingy, I found myself wanting to go out less because there was this awkwardness of who would cover the bill. With guys that spent generously, I've always been quick to reciprocate and been grateful that wasn't an issue. If they insist on covering the first bill, I'll happily insist on getting the second.
But I can not remember the last time I spent $10 on a night out. Dinner and a movie for two is generally going to be $50. I think that's a more realistic weekly budget.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: Lalo, just do what my mother did. Pray really hard for a girly-girl who loves baking and dance classes, and you'll get a stubborn geeky kid who loves puzzles and make-believe as long as it involves dirt instead of dolls.
Stereotypical ideas about girls is exactly why I hated most of my elementary school teachers.
Haha, I'm actually kind of fond of the girly-girl types too. Kids in India and Italy and New York are all basically the same, flipping them around gets happy reactions. I swear I'm going to be an elementary schoolteacher if I ever tire of this whole law thing, I love chilling with little kids.
God help me if I wind up with a teenage daughter though. Kill me now.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
As I said earlier, I am happy to pay for a date. On first dates, I go into it expecting that I'll be picking up the tab. However, I also have a policy of not playing games with money. I really dislike the game of "'oh, no, let me pay.' 'No, I insist, let me'". If someone offers to pick up the tab, I let them.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by jebus202: I think anyone who says pretty girls don't get more attention is being naive. Equally anyone who says hot guys don't get more attention is also being naive. At least women have a way of faking being attractive.
Nope. Pretty women are more attractive, I agree, but it really doesn't matter what guys look like. So long as you have charisma and personality, you're good to go. I know plenty of knockouts dating fat dudes who can make them laugh.
Eh, sure, women are faster to get over the physical impression than men are, but still before personality and confidence and all that comes into account, one has to attract a person to them, which is generally based on looks.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Noemon: As I said earlier, I am happy to pay for a date. On first dates, I go into it expecting that I'll be picking up the tab. However, I also have a policy of not playing games with money. I really dislike the game of "'oh, no, let me pay.' 'No, I insist, let me'". If someone offers to pick up the tab, I let them.
Amen to that. I hate the fakeness of that game. I sometimes pay for the date, but if the girl asks to pay her part, I just say "ok" and move on.
Also, my dates/girlfriends usually wanted to know if they didn't put on too much make-up as they knew I really dislike it. If I like you when I meet you in a non-date situation, I will like you if you look the same while on the date, it's as simple as that. A cute dress? It can be a plus. Painting your face, not so much.
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God help me if I wind up with a teenage daughter though. Kill me now.
I imagine there would be trouble when she borrowed your bubble gum body wash or your Judy Blume collection without asking, but wouldn't it all be worth it to have someone with whom you could connect on an intellectual level?
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Again, not all teenagers are mirror-obsessed. They can care about their appearance without being vapid. It's all in how you raise them.
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(It's really interesting seeing how my 13 year old sister is compared to a (much older) me at her age. Same upbringing, very different kids.)
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God help me if I wind up with a teenage daughter though. Kill me now.
I imagine there would be trouble when she borrowed your bubble gum body wash or your Judy Blume collection without asking, but wouldn't it all be worth it to have someone with whom you could connect on an intellectual level?
This whole conversation is so amusing.
Teenage girls? What's that about? After two boys, I had one little girl and it was on. Kingdoms came crashing to the ground. My life was never the same.
I relish every insane moment.
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To me, the amount one spends on a date should bear some relationship to how much one can spend on a date. If one person has a lot of money and one person has very little and the person with a lot of money wants to do expensive things and is happy and able to pay, great. The person with less cash can plan less expensive activities, cook at home whatever.
How a person reacts to your not having a lot of money is an indication of what is important to that person. Is he or she only or too interested in how much you can spend? Does that indicate how willing that person would be to be with you in bad times?
(This is a different issue than how much you are willing to spend. If you have money and don't want to spend it on dating are you being responsible or are you being cheap? Could be either. How does this reflect how you feel about the relationship?)
It can be tricky when one person has a lot more disposable income and I suggest that some carefully applied socialism is helpful here. I tend to do my best to contribute what I reasonably can afford and then try not to worry that he is contributing more. He tries to refrain from giving me handfuls of cash.
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posted
This doesn't bear directly on the subject of how much money to spend on dating. Rather, having now been back in the dating environment for the past five years, I have been able to make some observations that have seemed to hold true for me and my experiences. For me, these have simply come to be socialogical observations (though I may ramble).
1) Biological imperatives play a role in what we find attractive. We would be stupid not to recognize that. To what extent, or how those imperatives manifest varies with each individual, though there are general tendencies both male and females seem to have (again, variations apply.) Therefore, it is fruitless to rail against the 'unfairness of it all' or to think men or women are simply shallow for being attracted to specific traits (though, in fact many are shallow when those are ALL they look at. One girl I dated was attractive...but just dull...so dull, though it wasn't readily apparant at the beginning). Rather, you must simply recognize those imperatives exists and simply decide how much you want to let those affect you, both in what you do to BE attractive, and in what you CHOOSE (to a certain extent) what is attractive to you.
2) Attraction, at the beginning, has the simple purpose of keeping someone interested enough that they stay around to get to know the you on the inside, so as to decide whether you two should get together (and you them). Therefore, it is not the end-all and be-all of dating. But it is not stupid or pointless either. It's ONE WAY we sift through potential mating opportunities/partners. Again, what you choose to do about that is your business and right. But obviously what you do can affect your results. (And I don't advocate being something you're not or being purely about the external. Personally, I work out, dress well and groom myself because it's an expression of my own self-respect and dignity. But I'd be a liar not to admit that I know it obviously increases the initial attraction I might have to the opposite sex. But again I'm also not gonna fake what I am, nor will I compromise what I am looking for. I try to be the best me I can be, period.)
3) I don't believe in "the one". I believe some people fit better than others, that's all. And you will find that 'better fit' many times in your life, but it still may never happen for a number of reasons: they're already married, you're already in a relationship, you have different goals in life, different circumstances, too young, etc... So if it doesn't work out, whether they were that 'better fit' or not, it's not always a judgment on your fitness (though it might be- if you're a jerk, after all, don't be surprised when it never works) but rather simply that it wouldn't work between you. (Easier said than done. But I'm still really close with an ex-girlfriend because we both recognized we were forcing it. Heck, I have a better relationship now with my ex-wife than I ever did married, though it wasn't something I would have chosen to end.) It's like docking ships in space. A lot of things have to line up or be equal. Marriage is hard enough as it is. It should be about 2 stable individuals choosing to be with each other out of love and commitment. It should be a healthy thing. Forcing something because of desperate loneliness, fear, codependency, resignation or rampant horniness, is a recipe for a miserable marriage- and nothing is more lonely than a miserable marriage. Not by a long shot.
Anyway, those are my observations. We all try to do what we can in this...I don't like the word game, but there are rules and there are consequences/realities of our actions. Obviously my experiences are limited by my own life (only one, so far ). But we do what we must to maximize the potential we have to meet someone we click with on all the levels necessary for a stable happy marriage.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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God help me if I wind up with a teenage daughter though. Kill me now.
I imagine there would be trouble when she borrowed your bubble gum body wash or your Judy Blume collection without asking, but wouldn't it all be worth it to have someone with whom you could connect on an intellectual level?
If I wanted someone who'd get weepy over Twilight while curling their long hair and dreaming about boys... I'd adopt you.Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I can't find girls who don't want to insist that we split the cost of dates evenly. Can not. I connect with different girls. We're both just paying our own way.
And dates are pretty damn fun the way we do them. 'date costs' are typically that of copious amounts of alcohol and a great concert to shout ourselves hoarse at.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: I pay for dates, gifts, etc. because I want to, generally. Relationships where I felt I had to spend when I didn't want to, I walked away from pretty quickly. But it should be noted that, to me, the purpose of excess money is pretty much to make other people - usually ones I like - happy.
I think you've got the best take on why (when financially able) a guy might want to pay for anything, ever. I've tried to pay for food, etc., when my fiance and I are out, and he would rather pay himself (this was his take before engagment, too). It doesn't seem a natural response for me to take extra time to get ready or put on extra make-up or anything fancy either (unless we're going to the orchestra again, of course, courtesy of his parents season tickets). What I do do for him kinda/sorta in response is make dinner on certain nights and other little things of that nature. I have to buy the food to make it, but I also have to put some work into preparing it. I think the more you're willing to put into a relationship, not just money but time and effort, etc., etc., the better off you both are as well as the relationship itself. As I reread that, it comes to mind that having recently accepted an engagement ring, that was a lot harder to accept not because I wanted to turn him down (I didn't!), but because I knew the expense was far greater than any other to date. He considers that an investment in US in the long run and not just in ME.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: My husband ended up spending a bit of money courting me, but that was largely because we were long distance for a while and plane tickets are expensive. He says it was a good investment.
That seems to go hand in hand with MrSquicky's take. I like it.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: This is all just one big mating/courtship ritual. If you're not interested in the potential outcomes of such a ritual, then no, it's not worth it to spend any money on girls. It's also not worth it to date.
Agreed.
KoM, it may make you even more thrilled to note that katharina isn't the only (nearly) thirty something around here who has that approach to sex and marriage.
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posted
What? I missed the part where I was talked about.
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Oh, yep. I'm a virgin, and most of the single men and women in my acquaintance are as well. I don't know exactly who and how many, because it isn't any of my business who is and isn't. I assume that not all of them, but a very large percentage.
It's because I'm Mormon and I agree with the Lord's law of chastity, which is chastity before marriage and fidelity within.
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quote:Teshi, nature vs. nurture is not anywhere near as clear-cut as that.
Perhaps. I know I have what are perhaps unusual views about the importance of relationship between children and parents. But I presume that Lalo is talking about extreme vapidity, not fifteen minutes with a hair drier.
I'm really going off topic here but think ever since we discovered genes we've been giving them too much credit for behavioral traits.
I see quite a strong correlation between the behavior of parents and children wherever I go, whether the children are adopted or not. If you devalue vapidity, even children who may lean that way can be de-vapidized, as it were, to a fairly significant extent.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
One more question for Omega M, How much do you spend on entertainment in an average week when you don't have a girl friend? Are you talking about spending $10 more than you spend if you go out for Pizza or a movie with the guys or $10 total?
I also noticed that many of you seem to equate a date with dinner and a movie. By that definition I'm not sure my husband and I had more than half a dozen dates in the 4 years we spent dating before we got married.
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posted
Omega, In my experience, what's required in dating very much depends on what you want to get out of it.
If you're just out looking for a bit of fun (of the squelchy kind or not) you'll likely be spending effort and energy in proportion to how much the the people you want want you. Also, because you're likely to be switching around a lot, the initial costs are higher but you generally don't have to worry about presents for birthdays, Christmas, etc. This can be an awful lot of fun, but you're not really building strong emotional bonds or anything that is really going to last, so you're not really investing in anything other than a good time.
The middle ground where you have a relationship but it's one that is unlikely to end up with you two being together for the rest of your lives, honestly, I don't have much experience with. I never got much out of this one, so I tended to get out of them as soon as I realized I was in them. It sounds like this might be what you are looking for, so I don't know how much advice that is directly relevant I can give.
For a serious relationship, I've found that it's very hard to get the benefits of one of these if you are actively pursuing the benefits. These have only ever worked for me when I was intensely interested in the other person for their own sake, not for what I was getting out of it. If you do that and the other person is worthy of this trust and is looking out for you, you can get some pretty great benefits, but you just don't get there by trying to get there.
quote:It's because I'm Mormon and I agree with the Lord's law of chastity, which is chastity before marriage and fidelity within.
Excellent! So do I, for theists that is. I am always glad to see justice being done. And self-inflicted at that! Keep on as you are doing, or rather not doing.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
On the attractiveness thing, I think there's a wide difference between being the belle of the ball who makes the other girls jealous and is flocked around by cute boys and finding people who are good for you to date.
Pursuit of the first goal I could see being pretty expensive in terms of both Cosmo-type beauty costs and effort, but the second nowhere near as much.
As I've said, it's all about the guys you are looking for. If you want the guys that are of a type that give primary importance to physical attractiveness, that's probably what you are going to find, but that's not anywhere near the story with all guys everywhere. Saying that it is sounds a lot like the guys who bemoan that all girls seem to want guys who are jerks.
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For me, I met my fiancee through a volleyball league. She's hot enough that when she goes out, even when I'm out with her, random guys will hit on her, but for the first 9 months I knew her, I saw her in gym clothes without any makeup on and usually pretty sweaty. And, while I flirted with her a fair bit, I only really got seriously interested in her because of character-type things she did (one that sticks out is when she took an hour of her scarce free time on a Wednesday night when we were all out at a bar after our respective games to help a friend out with a legal problem).
I never did see her all dressed up until our first date. She was a knock-out, but, honestly, I've dated more attractive girls. That I walked out of that date thinking that she was probably the girl that I was going to marry had very little to do with how she looked (especially how much eye shadow, etc. she had on).
quote:It's because I'm Mormon and I agree with the Lord's law of chastity, which is chastity before marriage and fidelity within.
Excellent! So do I, for theists that is. I am always glad to see justice being done. And self-inflicted at that! Keep on as you are doing, or rather not doing.
Um, does that mean you're hoping the atheists are going at it like rabbits?... Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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I was a virgin until married, but that happened at twenty-nine, so I guess I don't count.
As to the original question, I think that rather than looking at how much you spend on your girlfriend in comparison to how much others do, you should look at it in comparison to what else you spend money on. If you're trying to stay at $10/week to spend on your girlfriend, but you're spending $30 a week on Starbucks for yourself, then perhaps something is out of whack.
The fourth time I saw my (now) wife wearing make-up was at our wedding (and the other three times were other weddings). It's been maybe ten times ever by now.
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quote:It's because I'm Mormon and I agree with the Lord's law of chastity, which is chastity before marriage and fidelity within.
Excellent! So do I, for theists that is. I am always glad to see justice being done. And self-inflicted at that! Keep on as you are doing, or rather not doing.
It's a shame pompous atheists don't have a chastity rule as well, the world would be a far more polite place in a generation or so.
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quote:Originally posted by Papa Moose: The fourth time I saw my (now) wife wearing make-up was at our wedding (and the other three times were other weddings). It's been maybe ten times ever by now.
Do wives have a trade in program? Where can I get your model?
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I'm kidding! I'm kidding! I love mine! Posts: 382 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Teshi: As for the cost, I was assuming eight lessons in two months, which puts the cost over $20 which is more expensive than private piano lessons per hour.
You think 20 bucks an hour is way more expensive than private piano lessons?!
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If the girl isn't happy with that then we don't date, which seems to be a system everyone can live with. I'm not cheap, even when I have money, though, so maybe the fact that I have given serious thought to why I don't pay on dates makes a difference.
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Dood. Some guy should buy me MOTH COCOONS and Crysallids and find some on the ground. That would make me happy.
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quote:It's because I'm Mormon and I agree with the Lord's law of chastity, which is chastity before marriage and fidelity within.
Excellent! So do I, for theists that is. I am always glad to see justice being done. And self-inflicted at that! Keep on as you are doing, or rather not doing.
It's a shame pompous atheists don't have a chastity rule as well, the world would be a far more polite place in a generation or so.
You don't know many Atheists do you?
Posts: 636 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:You think 20 bucks an hour is way more expensive than private piano lessons?!
I didn't say "way", but $25 (200/8) I'd put at the decent end of piano lessons, heading into the $30s for good private lessons and into the mid to late teens for cheap.
I also probably depends where you live. I suspect in California, prices are perhaps higher.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
It wouldn't be surprising if ballet lessons did cost more. There are fewer people qualified to teach ballet lessons than there are people qualified to teach piano lessons, and holding ballet lessons requires a considerable amount of space with very specific requirements. Space is expensive.
edit: the only thing bringing down costs is that multiple children can be taught at once, and in places where space is at a premium, that effect won't be sufficient.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Ballet lessons were starting to cost more and more as our daughter's age required that she start taking more and more lessons per week, and the studio was moving across town.
I honestly did not want to become one of those stories you hear about at the Olympics--where the parents drove their daughter or son to classes 300 miles each way each week for years and years and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on lessons. Or simply watching our daughter's life narrow down to one thing only.
We switched her to a gymnastics class that is close to home and much more low key, and are paying much less per month. She did miss ballet for a while, but now she's doing cartwheels and back walkovers all over the house.
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fugu: At many dance schools, the people teaching the very youngest kids are students themselves.
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Last time I took voice lessons here they cost, at a minimum, a dollar a minute and that was years ago.
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Teshi: sure, but that still requires a highly qualified head instructor, who is in some part responsible for making sure the instruction of the youngest kids goes well.
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Maybe my problem was that I always had to spend money on my girlfriend to do things I couldn't have cared less about, like going to concerts and shows. I really have no desire to go to events or on vacations or things like that. Going to movies is all right. Have I shrunk my chances of meeting someone to almost nothing?
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:You think 20 bucks an hour is way more expensive than private piano lessons?!
I didn't say "way", but $25 (200/8) I'd put at the decent end of piano lessons, heading into the $30s for good private lessons and into the mid to late teens for cheap.
I also probably depends where you live. I suspect in California, prices are perhaps higher.
In California it's much higher, but it's higher than what you're quoting in both Louisiana and Montana.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: On a first date, I (female) always offer to split the bill out of courtesy. That said, I have a slight expectation that the guy will refuse my offer and cover the bill. When guys willingly spend money on dating me, it makes me feel better about them and about spending money on them. With relationships I've had where the guy was stingy, I found myself wanting to go out less because there was this awkwardness of who would cover the bill. With guys that spent generously, I've always been quick to reciprocate and been grateful that wasn't an issue. If they insist on covering the first bill, I'll happily insist on getting the second.
But I can not remember the last time I spent $10 on a night out. Dinner and a movie for two is generally going to be $50. I think that's a more realistic weekly budget.
quote:Originally posted by jebus202: katharina, I think, for the first time ever, I agree with you.
I like girls all prettied up, and I'm happy to pay for them on dates.
Yes. I agree also. I think men should pay for EVERYTHING. The house, the car, the dinners, the movies. Everything. The women should stay in the house, no jobs, no social lives. They should exist to cook me dinner and provide me with sex. Yes. This is the way things ought to be.
They say women make 71 cents on the dollar compared to men. Obviously this is the way things should be, but it really should be less- in fact, women should not be allowed to work. Yes. This is totally reasonable.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Maybe my problem was that I always had to spend money on my girlfriend to do things I couldn't have cared less about, like going to concerts and shows. I really have no desire to go to events or on vacations or things like that. Going to movies is all right. Have I shrunk my chances of meeting someone to almost nothing?
Omega, What things do you like to do? If you are trying to date women who aren't interested in doing the things you like to do, that's the problem right there.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:You think 20 bucks an hour is way more expensive than private piano lessons?!
I didn't say "way", but $25 (200/8) I'd put at the decent end of piano lessons, heading into the $30s for good private lessons and into the mid to late teens for cheap.
I also probably depends where you live. I suspect in California, prices are perhaps higher.
In California it's much higher, but it's higher than what you're quoting in both Louisiana and Montana.
My university payed my guitar instructor around 50 dollars for a half hour lesson once a week. That's not unreasonable for a very exclusive teacher. I wouldn't give guitar lessons myself for less than 25 dollars a 45 minute lesson.
I've had to work out my feelings about giving lessons to people in the past 6 months because I've been living on my income from private teaching. There is a certain kind of student that gets you to come down to the smallest fee possible, then proceeds to commit exactly that much of their attention to your lessons- you're cheap, so you can be treated as such. I frankly refuse to teach people who even ask me to teach for less than my minimum rate, which is 350 kc per 45 minutes (about 18 dollars), and I try to avoid people who try to get me to lower my price at all- I've found that people who are willing to take you at your word as to how much your time is worth, are also more dependable as students and have much more respect for you as a teacher. It's a pretty tricky business, but in my opinion, if you're unwilling to commit a meaningful amount of money to your lessons, then you are probably unwilling to make a meaningful effort when it comes to keeping your appointments, studying, etc. My biggest mistake as a new teacher was offering someone a discount because she wanted to have me teach herself and her children for a large number of hours a week. Of three appointments that we keep each week, she regularly cancels at least one, and sometimes two- that's six hours out of my week, every week, in which I am not certain I will be payed.
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My brother-in-law charged $25/lesson in TX for 1-hour lessons to small children; he was an experienced player but inexperienced teacher of piano.
My kids' dance studio charges $15/lesson for walk-ins per 45 min.-1 hr. lesson; less if you pay by the month, even less if you give them a credit card on file or pre-pay 4 months in advance, plus a $25/year registration fee ($45/year for a family where more than one kid attends) and that includes a t-shirt. Recital and costume fees (and tickets) are separate. Private lessons are $30/hour.
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